t3 t4 housing

Hey guys, Im looking to do a t3/t4 turbo upgrade soon and need your advice especially kevin's :smile: Im looking at ebay at this t3 t4 turbo .50 ar, .70 exhaust housing. (i think thats how you put it) Now I have been told that a .50 ar, .63 housing, is a pretty good match. My question is what is the diffrence? Will the smaller exhaust housing have faster spool? But the larger housing have a little more top end? Please excuse my ignorance just trying to make a decision and learn something while Im at it :bigthumb:

The PTE fitty trim is a mad turbo! The AR will effect the top end and spool, but not a huge amount. If your running a t-25 you will miss all of your low end torque. If the turbo is "XS engineering" or ssautochrome, pass on that offer. Their shit breaks like a mother.

Bullseye power has a "build your own turbo" where you can specify just about anything. Prices start at a VERY decent 600.

Also, they have complete To4B-Vtrim for less than 700. Flows over 700 CFM.

Thats a DAMN good price to bolt on 700 CFM's

If you don't have supporting mods, your turbo will be useless, no matter what you get. You will need at least a 190 LPH fuel pump, preferably a SAFC II, definitly a turbo back exhaust, Upgrades Intercooler piping with a better BOV, and ideally a FMIC, or upgraded SMIC, and 620cc injectors. If you don't have your supporting mods, your turbo will perform WORSE than the t-25.

The PTE fitty trim is a mad turbo! The AR will effect the top end and spool, but not a huge amount. If your running a t-25 you will miss all of your low end torque. If the turbo is "XS engineering" or ssautochrome, pass on that offer. Their shit breaks like a mother.

Bullseye power has a "build your own turbo" where you can specify just about anything. Prices start at a VERY decent 600.

Also, they have complete To4B-Vtrim for less than 700. Flows over 700 CFM.

Thats a DAMN good price to bolt on 700 CFM's

If you don't have supporting mods, your turbo will be useless, no matter what you get. You will need at least a 190 LPH fuel pump, preferably a SAFC II, definitly a turbo back exhaust, Upgrades Intercooler piping with a better BOV, and ideally a FMIC, or upgraded SMIC, and 620cc injectors. If you don't have your supporting mods, your turbo will perform WORSE than the t-25.


Ofcourse Ill get supporting mods dude thats common sence, actually now im thinking bigger :evillol: there is this 60-1 turbo on ebay also I think its .70 ar, .84 exhaust housing, I love saviors setup!! I know it will be laggy but this one has a ball bearing turbo so that might help. Kevin step in hear please :smile:

The first turbo you mentioned, you didn't say anything about what compressor wheel it was. Do you really need a T3/T4 or would a 16g/20g do for you? 60-1 is pretty big, make sure your goals are reasonable unless you have money to throw away.

My bad joe, the 60-1 im talkin about has a stage 5 wheel, the .50 .70 turbo has a IV wheel, (i think that numeral is 4 or 5 i honestly cant remember lol) What is the diffrence in the stages? Does that me they spool quicker or something? please excuse my ignorance :smile:

Bigger wheel is going to affect the output, and spool too, of course. I was just pointing out that the ebay one didn't describe much. I would stick to trusted DSM turbos and something a DSM vendor recommends. The 60-1 is a great wheel but it is pretty damn big. Remember all the little things that will break/get replaced if you tackle a large setup.

Not sure, so correct me if im wrong but the "stages" in the wheel are just larger diameter and often times clipped. Your spool will decrease with the higher stages.
Good alternitive the the 60 trim is a GT35R, dual bb. Stays spooled but its pricey. And make sure the turbo you get off ebay is not ssautocrap or a lame ass ebay brand. Warrenties are a good sign of a turbo that is not a cheap knock off.

Please dont quote CFM numbers for turbos its completely useless. A 2 liter motor at 7000 rpm will only consume 247 CFM of airflow. The 700 is useless, unless your willing to do some decent math. ;)

I would definitely not mix a 60-1 and a stage 5 wheel on a 2 liter. It really is laggy. And from someone like me that thinks his turbo spools quickly at over 5000 rpm, that means something :icon16: I would match it to a stage 3 wheel (these wheels have real names, but the stage thing is what most poeple recognize now) in a .63ar or .82ar ehxuast housing. The difference is about 200 rpm in boost threshold. With a .70ar compressor housing (TO4S) its something like 4200 to 25 psi on the 63, and 44-4500 on the .82. I persoanlly think 4500 is fine, so I would go for the larger housing. Larger housings absolutely affect power output, and VE (volemetric efficiency, or how much air you will move through the motor at a given boost pressure). Anything you can do to move more air at the same or less boost will increase power without increase knock propensity. The stroker is the extreme example if this, and this is the whole reason I run one. It makes a serious difference on pump gas especially. But its all about your tolerance for lag, and how much power you need to squeeze of that turbo, and on what type of fuel. For a street car that will be run in mild tune on the street, and see race gas at the track, run the 63. For a car that will be a pump gas hero, do the 82. The 70 ar TSO4 cover is tough to get to clear the water pipe without a SFP or similar manifold. In "bolt on" configuration, something like SBRs cast manifold with thicker flange will help to space it out. For less trouble with clearances, try the TO4E cover. The TO4B is too small IMO. But just like with exhaust housings, the comp housing AR will affect both lag and power potential. I think a 60-1 is large enough to warrant use of the TO4S cover, in my humble opinion. This comp wheel is good to just over 60 lbs/min. I logged about 62.

For something a little smaller, the 50 trim works well. Try the stage 3 wheel in the 82. That will still spool faster than a 60-1 in a 63 ;) So you get the power potential of the larger housing, but it spools so fast you can hardly say it adds any lag. This is good to 50 lbs/min. I logged up to 51.

I dont like any of the TO4E wheels in between (54, 57, 60 trims)

For a GT type turbo from SBR, the GT 12 sounds like a good choice for you. Nothing to really choose from, you can only get a 7 cm housing (~.50). You can choose between the E and S compressor covers though. 55 lbs/min if I remember correctly. A GT35R is a great turbo for sure, but it takes ridiculous boost and at least 9k rpms to even start to use its potential. I ran that wheel in a TDO6H/7cm configuration and it hardly broke a sweat. Nice efficient wheel though, one of my favorites. 65 lbs/min. Large wheel. Its hard to get over ~55 lbs on a 2 liter, for whatever thats worth.

And since we're in the 50 lbs/min neighborhood, lets not forget my personal favorite for a nice street/strip turbo, a 20g mated to a TDO6H turbine wheel, with a 3" compressor cover (red/green/m-series style). I liked my previous two so much, I bought the first one back to put on my 91 daily driver ;) ~48 lbs/min, 25 psi by 3700 rpm, first turbo I hit 11s on in the full weight 2g. Bolt on for about 999 from SBR, no muss no fuss. Cant wait to get this one on the 91 this week.

Also note that there is almost no difference in boost threshold between conventional bushing turbos and BB turbos. My buddy Ricer had a GT14, 56 trim comp wheel in a 7cm housing. I had the same wheel in the same exhaust housing, non BB (the venerable "M14"). There were some slight differences. But all told, both turbos spooled at the same time. Ricers at 4500 for 25 psi, mine at 4400. There can be some gains in transient response, but I dont see where its becomes worth the cost. In my opinion, the only good thing about a BB turbo is that there would be no possible way for me to kill the thrust bearing, like I usually do. Mike at SBR told me I'm not allowed to buy any more conventional bushing turbos from him any more for this reason, next one has to be BB, LMAO. Oh well. Another tough choice. But dont automatically assume BB is faster spooling or better than conventional bushing turbos. Thats the point I'm trying to make.

Many many options to choose from just for the basic size of the turbo. Getting into the housing ARs and such is the nitty gritty stuff that can make a decent difference in performance too. Not sure if you are set of a turbo yet, so hopefully something up there helped. If you do want a 60-1, that info is there too. Good luck.

Kevin is the man!! :iceslolan Joe was alot of help too!! :iceslolan Thanks alot guys, Kevin I had a few more questions but I dont want to be a post whore so I will pm you if thats okay, thanks again guys! :smile:

If there is a related question, get it out in the thread so we can all learn. For all that Kevin talks about, remember that the smallest turbo he mentions is 50lbs/min, near 500whp on a properly tuned car. On the low level, mitsubishi does a decent turbo, especially the td06h 20g, while garrett has a ton of mix and match opportunities. You're going to want to go with a garrett combination that fits your car, and not an ebay random t3/t4. Not to assume too much, but there are a lot of people with bolt-on 50 trims (note: mitsu exhaust housing) dynoing relatively low... and andre making a hair over 500whp on his 'dre-spec' 50 trim on pump gas.

Well, know that you mentioned it, I was wondering what wheel savior is using on his 60-1 setup. On his video it did seem a bit laggy but he said he liked turbo lag, lol.Kevin suggested a stage 3 wheel I think, so is that what savior is using? Im not trying to copy anyone, Im just curious about his setup.

Copying something just for the sake of copying is retarded. But its ok to copy something because it works. ;) Running something that doesnt work just because its different is retarded. And many many DSMers fall into this trap.