Transmission or clutch?

I have a 2000 kia spectra, manual transmission/hydraulic clutch.

My problem is that it will grind on upshifts going into second and third gear, and on downshift going into second gear. This grind is less pronounced and often avoided if I shift at higher rpm (at or above 4000). I originally thought this was synchro related so i started double clutching. While double clutching seems to mostly help on the upshifts, I i cannot get it to help any on downshifting into second gear.

It slides into all gears fine with clutch pushed in at a stopped idle.

Can you give me any idea if this might be a problem with the clutch or hydraulic system instead of the transmision? (i've always had a cable in the past) And if transmission, would it be anything besides a bad synchro?

Thank you for any insight as i fear i am slowly shredding my tranny and want to stop doing it if the problem can be resolved without replacing it. I tried this in the kia forum but didn't find anyone that had a suggestion...

I'm leaning toward the synchros for the fact that you said its fine at a stop.

Try something for me... at a stop, as you're putting it in first, gently take it past the syncros, but wait a second to engage the gear. If it grinds or if you can tell that the gear was moving, its the clutch. If it doesn't grind, that pretty much means its the synchros since it only happens moving.

Before you tear out the tranny, its possible that a tranny fluid swap might help things out a touch. A thicker gear oil will permit more slippage of the synchros and therefore worsen a synchro problem. a thinner oil like ATF will allow better synchronization and help a synchro problem. You could at least make a more accurate diagnosis after a $40 lube change instead of a $400 transmission diagnosis.

Edit: and by the way... thanks for the clear question; posting the year, make, model, and symptoms. :) You should get a friggin "Posty" award. I just made that up.

Curtis's suggestions make sense. Also does your clutch seem to "grab" at the same pedal distance from the floor as it always has? Let us know what you find.

Thanks so much for the suggestions!

I did what you said, curtis. The result was a nice slide in, but with a moderate bump. There was no change in the engine idle. After the car was put into first once, at the same stop, it slid in and out without any resistance, with or without hesitation past the syncro (I assume I'm pausing at the right spot).

The weird thing, if I put it into second after a stop, before putting it into first, it will not go without grinding. Put it into first, then it will slide into second. I wonder if the gear clearence is messed? Or maybe I just have an officially fubar 2nd gear at this point. ugh.

As far as change in the clutch uptake, I don't know as I have just purchased the car recently. It seems to grab at a normal space. I haven't measured per specs, but by estimating seems about right.

I missed this problem because I drove it rough on the 2nd test drive as the car was skipping to badly on my first test drive to get it off the lot (morons washed the engine. I have yet to see a dealership not get water in the plug holes with an engine detail). At that time, changing gears at higher rpm didn't show a problem. That was dumb of me.

For the time being, if no further thoughts, I'm going to try the fluid switch to ATf and see if that helps.

Thanks again!

Update: I got the fluid switched today. This seems to be helping somewhat. I don't think it's just wishful thinking. So... who knows, but thanks again for the tip!

I'm slowly calling pick n' pulls between here and Gerogia to try and find a tranny I can pick up for parts on my next trip. With luck, I wont break more than i fix! :D

My guess would you have worn synchromesh. It is made of brass and spins up next gear to same RPM as in gear so it would shift without gear grinding. Try some gear additive such as graphite. If that doesn't work rebuild would be in order.