Swapping the alternator and power steering pump

For those not familiar with the previous discussion, I've been kicking around the idea of relocating the alternator by swapping it with the power steering pump. The same 3.3L engine was used in the '96-'00 Pathfinders, but for whatever reason these two components are in the opposite location. It should be possible to convert an X to the Pathy configuration without too much fuss.

Well, I crawled under my X after I got home from work and pulled my alternator to see what I could see in preparation for getting my hands on a junkyard Pathfinder engine to inspect tomorrow. At least I'll have something in my head to compare visually eh?

Well, I'm a little less optimistic about things after doing so. There is a large bracket that the alternator bolts to that is shared by the air conditioner compressor. The whole thing bolts to the block. The PS pump mounts to a similar bracket on the other side as well, which I think includes the idler pulley / tensioner too. I don't think there's any way to simply swap the pump and alternator without using the corresponding Pathy brackets. This will make things quite a bit more interesting, as there isn't much room to work.
It might be possible to R&R everything without fussing with a lot of other stuff in the process, but at a minimum you'll have to remove the airbox and hose up to the manifold, the large coolant hose in front of the PS pump (pump mouting bolts are accessed through holes in the pulley) and perhaps the battery to get decent working room from above. And of course you'll have to move the A/C compressor aside a bit, hopefully it can move clear enough without needing to open the system. Removing the drag link (or whatever you call the bar in the steering linkage that runs between the tie rods) will help greatly when working from below, though it's handy to rest the alternator on while you R&R the wiring for it. Holding that sucker up with one hand while you try and work with the bolts with another gets real old real quick.

I'll still see what I can see on the Pathy motor tomorrow, but the more I look into it the more I think I'll take my chances with the alternator as it is.

Brent

Thanks for taking the time to share Brent. That would definately be a worth while mod if it is not to involved. I wonder why in the hell Nissan changed the design?

For the slow kid... what would be the benefit of swaping the alternator with the power steering pump?:confused: :confused: :confused:

Originally posted by ToeJam
For the slow kid... what would be the benefit of swaping the alternator with the power steering pump?:confused: :confused: :confused:
The alternator sits very low in the engine bay & is thus susceptible to water/mad that could kill it (several people have done this, some more than once).
The PS pump would be much more resilient to such exposure so swapping the two would enable safer water fording & mudhole diving.

Originally posted by ToeJam
For the slow kid... what would be the benefit of swaping the alternator with the power steering pump?:confused: :confused: :confused:

More importantly, when is the PNWX-WAX boating trip happening? :D

I neglected to mention the other big gotcha we may run into... If the Pathy pump and alternator have different physical layouts then it may not even be possible to mount your X pump and alternator to the Pathy brackets. If that's the case, you would have to replace your pump and alternator entirely with Pathy units as well.
I suppose if you nuke your alternator that would be a good time to do it. I know you can find Pathy PS pumps for about $75 used.

Brent

Well, that was a bust. None of the yards that said they had 3.3L engines had them. They had 3.0 engines, which are a very different layout. I'll see what I can see on a co-worker's '99 on Monday.

Brent

Originally posted by xterrabull

.....& is thus susceptible to water/mad that could kill it....


Ahhhh, cool. Thanks for getting me up to speed.

Schlud - When do ya wanna go out? I'm pulling it out of Lake Washington tomorrow morning. We could have gone out today, but I didn't think about it. I don't have any gear besides an anchor, so all I can offer you is a great place to hang out and drink beer. I'll trade you a day out on the lake for helping me put on my Bilsteins....

here is what i got from a nissan tech.


"First of all, the Pathfinder has a steering rack, very similar to a car. The Xterra has a sealed gear box type steerer, I guess Nissan engineers felt that they had to move these things around to give it more room. Also, if look at the 2, they are arranged on opposite sides. As for why the steering is different on the Pathfinder compared to the Xterra, my guess is that Nissan feels the Xterra is more of an off road vehicle than the Pathfinder. How many Pathfinder owners actually take their trucks off road?? Not many. In fact most of them remain on road, so a car-like rack doesn't really matter. Now, I can relate to what you're saying, I had to replace an alternator on the same Frontier Desert Runner 3 times for the same problematic reason you guys are having. To answer your 2nd question, can it switched back, yes. Would I?? No. Even if you got junkyard parts from a Path, the time and energy you'd waste on the swap is not worth it. If you do decide your gonna do it, you'll need the all the brackets of coarse, but you'll also may need to lengthen the wire harness for the alternator, and the all the hoses to the power steering pump are too short. Oh, and the high pressure line hose to the power steering pump....gosh I don't know!?!?!

You may need to do something custom...even with some of those brackets...like I said, I wouldn't do it."

Yep, no surprises there. I knew the wiring would have to be extended and the PS hoses re-routed, and yes, the brackets would need to be swapped.
I had another look under the hood of a '99 Pathy this morning. Good news is that from what I can tell the alternators mount to their respective brackets at the same points, so you could mount the X alternator to the Pathy bracket. Still can't see the Pathy pump, and she confirmed she isn't up to letting me drop her splash shield to have a look from below, but I've got a feeling they'll mount the same too.

My new concern is if there is even room on the passenger side of the engine for the alternator to fit properly between the block and body/frame. There seems to be more room in that area on the Pathy than the X. Also I can't tell how the PS pump on the Pathy is tensioned. The X alternator pivots on 2 bolts with a third on a sliding bracket, but I don't see any indication of a similar setup on the Pathy pump. Again, I can't see down there well though.
Sometime this week I will drive my X to work and do a side-by-side visual as best I can.

Brent

Anyone have any more thoughts on alternator relocation? It looks like the Pathy ideas won't work too easily, it will have to be a custom deal. The bracketry shouldn't be too bad, just some steel angle & bars welded together. The part that worries me is the the PS pump does not flexible hoses on the pressure side, it has actual pipes that are bent for its specific location. That means you'll have to either bend and thread new pipes, or make a high-pressure hose to span that length. Any thoughts?

On a somewhat related matter... Anyone done any work on the breather tubes for diffs/trannies? From what I can tell, the T-case and tranny (manual) breather tubes vent into the crankcase. That would mean they are already pressurized, so water infiltration should not be an issue. The rear diff vents to above the rear diff. This one definately need to be extended either up into the body, or up front to the air intake (snorkel?) or crankcase. I have no idea where the front diff goes, I've been unable to trace it by myself, I will need a second person to look on top of the engine while I'm underneath. With lots of light.

At work I've see many power steering hoses for other vehicles and they might be able to be converted to reach to the new location. Plus they do sell high pressure power steering hose so that you could make your own.

Just some thoughts.

-Dustin

We use Aeroquip hydraulic hoses which are rated to 5000 psi on the turbine engines I build. I know that you can buy Aeroquip for autos too. My co-worker says that Summit racing carries them. They are rubber with a flexible mesh liner. Or you can buy the braided stainless ones.

My nickels worth!

Yep... Aeroquip = good stuff

My MM Hydraulic winch uses aeroquip lines to reroute the PS high pressure line to the winch.

You could do it, but you'd need some custom fittings. I had to have one made (Thanks Nissan Mike) to get a comfortable install.

Originally posted by Kennedy

My MM Hydraulic winch uses aeroquip lines to reroute the PS high pressure line to the winch.

You could do it, but you'd need some custom fittings. I had to have one made (Thanks Nissan Mike) to get a comfortable install.

How do you like your winch? I have thought long and hard about getting the Mile Marker, but got scared when I was told that some vehicles don't have a powerful enough power steering pump to run it. You are the first person I have heard of that has actually installed one in the Xterra.:)

Yes, ScottG this came up again under the ARB Switch discussion. How do you like it? Was it a hard fir into the ARB? Any leaks? How fast is it?
Complaints? Hard install? Care to do a write up on it? Damn I'm just full of questions today!

I just wrote up a huge install for you guys and the board ate it. Uggh.
Here's the cliffs notes. I'm too pissed to right all of this up again today.

Install was not bad. Nissan Mike was super helpful in custom fabbing the banjo steering pump adapter. Most of it bolted right in, very little cutom fab work required. AC has lots of pointer too.

Here's a good pathy right up that'll help. My comments are very similar.

This thing kicks ass! Only HAD to use it once, put I like to pull things around with it. No problem with power.

If you're really serious about this email me directly and I'll reply with my phone number so you can call, I can then give you some install scoop.

http://www.off-road.com/nissan/mods/pathfinder/3/

Originally posted by Kennedy
I just wrote up a huge install for you guys and the board ate it. Uggh.
Here's the cliffs notes. I'm too pissed to right all of this up again today.

Install was not bad. Nissan Mike was super helpful in custom fabbing the banjo steering pump adapter. Most of it bolted right in, very little cutom fab work required. AC has lots of pointer too.

Here's a good pathy right up that'll help. My comments are very similar.

This thing kicks ass! Only HAD to use it once, put I like to pull things around with it. No problem with power.

If you're really serious about this email me directly and I'll reply with my phone number so you can call, I can then give you some install scoop.

http://www.off-road.com/nissan/mods/pathfinder/3/

Oh man that sucks so bad. I hate it when that crap happens :mad:. Worst part is you know the second draft will never be as good as the first. I have finally gotten into the habit of writing long postings in wordpad, and then doing a copy/paste job at the end. In general I find wordpad much more reliable than the internet :D.

So did your winch have a better hand controller, circuit breaker, and paint job? What was the deal with the banjo bolt? Can you reach the speed controller through the stock ARB hole? Does your ARB flex as his did under heavy load?

Look here in a few hours for a full review

I didn't want this post to get lost in the Alternator/Steering thread. They are both good theads and this should help keep them on track. Thanks for the post!

Click HERE (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=112924) for the MM post.

I was just about to post this new in "Exterior Mods" but had a work crisis.
Thanks for moving it to a more appropriate forum.

Not to beat what seems to be a dead horse, but has anyone made any headway in the direction of relocating the alternator on the X? I fried my first alternator this weekend, and I never even really knew this was a problem until reading a little bit. I have been told this is operator error, not a design error, but hey, mudpuddles happen. I just feel like there has to be SOME sort of solution...

does anyone have a bolt hole configuration and spec for the stock alternator? I was going to shoot a message to a company that builds high amp alternators, maybe they could make one with a bracket design that fits in the swap location. they do 140-250 amp alternators. That should do the trick.

Matt

Even if you get an alternator that will fit the power steering pump braket, you've got a long road left. The power steering pump will have to be relocated, PS lines re-routed, and even then it won't mount to the original alternator bracket!

Brent

The way I see it you only need:
New alternator bracket
New PS Pump Bracket
New Power Steering lines

The brackets are the problem.
The hoses from the pump to the steering mechanism itself would be shorter than stock, but you would need long hoses back to the PS fluid resevoir.

It would be a pain to do but I'd pay $200 for a relocation kit.
It would be even better if they could throw in a High Output Alternator.
Since you make your own brackets you could use any HiOut Alternator already on the market.

I wonder how interested an after-market producer would be in this.
I bet there are twenty or more people who have fried an alternator in their Xterra.

Still a lot of work to raise the alternator 3 inches :D

Originally posted by xoc
Still a lot of work to raise the alternator 3 inches :D
True 3" isn't much.
I'd like to get it on top, that's one thing I envy about the Jeep Liberty Engine
http://www.jeep.com/liberty/power/img/libertyEngines.jpg

How about this.
Put one of these compressors (extremeoutback (http://www.extremeoutback.com))
http://www.extremeoutback.com/PhotoDraw21.jpg
where the alternator is and then making brackets for the alternator at the top of the engine.

This way you can buy a high power alternator and make the brackets for the new alternator and still drive the truck. Plus you end up with a 8cft/min air compressor.

Richard

There's no room under the hood to add that compressor and move the alternator up any higher without shuffling yet more accessories.

Then again, there's the new Cadillac V12 engine in development, with all the accessories at the BACK of the engine where they can nest over the transmission and allow the engine to fit in the length of a V8. Probably well-protected, but man, what a bitch to work on!

Brent