Opened My Own Machine Shop

You have to love the man-machined threads on these turbo bolts! Remember how my exhaust gasket (turbine housing to manifold) was blown? Well, I tried to pull the 4 bolts (after soaking them in PB Blaster and easing them out gently). Then I realized that a few of them were no longer coming up :( Not good. I just tackled the project again today with some buddies because it was nice weather--we got all of the bolts out.

i can see it now , you specialty will be bolts and nuts, you can call yourself ...."ACE HARDWARE"....lol good job anyways at least you tried....

I wouldn't run it too much without any turbo bolts. It will make a massive exhaust leak in the front there that could possibly melt your radiator fans and could definately let exhaust into the cabin of the car.

I'd say to drill out and retap them if ya can....use a little bigger boltx4.... it just might work...

Don't worry, the car won't be run until everything is in good shape again. I am going to try to figure out the best way to get the housing retapped, if necessary. I need some more nice weather and a jack to pull the exhaust manifold and see if there is anything left of the threads in teh turbine housing.

Or, shoudl I scratch that idea, drop the turbo, get it retapped or helicoiled, and put everything back together?

Drilling out the bolt holes and retapping with some bigger bolts would probably be the easiest thing to try... but once it is done... it's done whether it works or not....
This idea I have used on thermoform machinery and has worked great... the only difference is that is was mostly aluminum that I had to do it to...clamp frames and shit... but I have done it succesfully on hardened steel... it's a bitch but alot easier/cheaper than to replace stripped out unit... the other fun thing is finding the next size up bolt without going to big and taking away from it's structural integrity.... wow that sounds like a startrek phrase!!! lol

That is surprisingly common on the EVO16Gs. SInce it left the bolt threads in the hole rather than pulling the housing threads out, there is some hope that it can be retapped with the same size (M10x1.25 most likely). If you dont synchronize the new threads with the old it probably wont work or wont last long though. If the new threads pull out you'll have no choice but to go to the next size. I've never seen m11, and m12 is massive (17mm head bolts, like the flywheel bolts, some of the tranny to block bolts, tranny mount bolts/nuts, etc). And you would have to also enlarge the holes in the cast manifold. Sounds risky. Might be easier to just get a new housing if they are available yet. PRobably 150-200 bucks though.

could you just drill the hole out and use a heavy duty nut and bolt,maybe even use some washers and lock washers?

Only 2 or 3 of the holes go all the way through. The others are blind. I've seen this done on the through holes. I would use a flat washer on the bolt head, and the 2g cupped washers on the nut end.

Actually all of my holes go all the way through--we removed the single stud that was on the turbo and replaced it with a bolt. I think I'm going to have the housing helicoiled if I can find someone to do it.

Then I can use new OEM bolts of the same size. Kevin, do you know anything about the FFWDconnection.com SS 300 grade ARP turbo bolts? Would those be significantly better than new OEM ones?

Well this thing happens when you are putting them in not taking them out. It looks like you have no threds left. That would have heppend when they got put in. Who put them in? I have about 10 of these bolt so if you need the let me know. You live in Tampa right?

It definitely happens on the way out. I've seen it personally. They go in by hand, then leave all the threads in when you take it out. The threads get all galled to shit and eventually the heat welds the bolt to the part. You can put enough torque on the bolt to just remove the narrow thread peaks from the shank. Its more common with the EVO3 housings because of the high nickel content allegedly. Joe, interesting that they all go though on that housing, I'm pretty positive that that's not the case on regular 6 and 7cm housings. That might be your saving grace, but its still a pain in the ass to use through bolts.

NEver saw those bolts before. In fact, I completely forgot about fast forward. That is one funny site, those guys crack me up. The bolts look the tits. Consider that stock bolts are 5 bucks each unless my memory has failed me again, or 20 for all 4. These bolts are only 10 bucks more, its a no brainer. But I wouldnt douche them on that banjaxed housing, I would use them with a new housing in hopes that this problem will be behind you forever. I would ask them if this product will specifically help with the EVO3 housing problem.

I actually ordered some new OEM bolts before I saw the FFWd ones--and yes, I love the website too ;). They really look like a nice set, and they only charge $5 for shipping, which makes me really want to buy from them. Too bad I already have the OEM ones coming :(

I'm going to have to get the housing helicoiled, and I'm going to use some copper-based antiseize (which RRE apparently suggests). Hopefully that will solve the problem. If this doesn't work, next time it will be a new turbine housing and the FFWD bolts.

wait! so the bolts came out and left the threads in the housing? would'nt it be possible to chase the threads out and use new bolts of the same size?

wait! so the bolts came out and left the threads in the housing? would'nt it be possible to chase the threads out and use new bolts of the same size?

using the proper size tap of course.

Re: huh (Post #16)


Quote:
Originally Posted by beatdown944
wait! so the bolts came out and left the threads in the housing? would'nt it be possible to chase the threads out and use new bolts of the same size?
using the proper size tap of course.

Possibly...I've heard that the Evo16g housing is a PITA to tap, and the idea of a helicoil insert that holds the OEM bolt in instead of the high-nickel-content turbine housing itself appeals to me.

COOL, Just put some anticeas on it this time!!!.......lol

That is what I was refering to above. It can be done. The concern is not being able to line up the new threads with the old. If the first couple threads are still good the tap will self align to those naturally. If the banjaxed bolt damaged the first few threads, it can be difficult. Two sets of half threads will be half as strong, probably less. OTherwise, its worth a shot.

Helicoils sound risky in this envronment. Maybe another type of insert would be better. Timeserts perhaps. At any rate, it beats buying a new housing, worth a shot.

Actually the first few threads are still intact, I think. I'm going to try to pull the turbo off today and call some machine shops to see if they'll take the job. Thanks for all of the help and suggestions, guys. :)

I just keep telling myself, "without the bitter, the sweet just ain't as sweet!" When you get your car running again after a problem like this, there are few better feelings, IMO ;)

Yeah keep saying that lol. I have now pulled my motor for a 2nd time and i'll just keep saying what you said..........

I still have never seen bolts do that on a turbo. And i still go with, they got f-ed up when they where going in not comeing out.

I also wanted to ask if anyone has suggestions for removing the turbine housing--anything I should know before I just follow the vfaq turbo rebuild to the point of having the turbine housing off.

I found a machine shop that can retap the threads for $5 a hole, and helicoil the housing for $10 a hole. Feel free to voice your opinions on which they should try :D

I'm tempted to have them retap the housing if it will work...Kevin, why did you say helicoils sounded iffy to you?

I also wanted to ask if anyone has suggestions for removing the turbine housing--anything I should know before I just follow the vfaq turbo rebuild to the point of having the turbine housing off.

I found a machine shop that can retap the threads for $5 a hole, and helicoil the housing for $10 a hole. Feel free to voice your opinions on which they should try :D

I'm tempted to have them retap the housing if it will work...Kevin, why did you say helicoils sounded iffy to you?


Have them retap it but make sure that the stock bolts will still fit. Are they gonna weld the holes closed then retap? Why do you wanna take the turbo apart? Do you have to?

I assume they're going to want the turbine housing off so that no metal dust gets in the turbo at all.

I say invest in the right size tap just in case something like this happens again.

Why didn't you ask jack what happend? lol

Well. I think it's my duty to have an input on your situation Joe. I have an evo16g, and my bolts were backing out. I went to tighten it, and it wouldn't move. So I then try to loosen the others hoping it would give some play for the first one. No dice. I went to take them all out, and I stripped two of the 4 on the way out. Long story short, I ended up drilling out, (went through 3-4 titanium bits, and 2.5 hours) before I got through both. Then tapping was horrible as well. I ended up drilling out my manifold as well, which sucked, and is very, very hard to do. It's almost easier and worth just getting another housing. Trust me, that is not an easy project. PITA times 10. But, and I can attest, it can be done.

Thanks for the personal experience, TsiTalon. The turbo will be out tomorrow, and I'm taking it to a machine shop to have them do SS helicoils on it, probably Monday. I'm not going to fool around with this stuff myself...just not worth it.

If I have to get a new housing, I will, but I like my ported Evo housing :)

I still have never seen bolts do that on a turbo. And i still go with, they got f-ed up when they where going in not comeing out.

I've seen it dozens of times. They go in fine (new bolts, new turbo), but come out like this. High temperature, high stress, vibration, etc. Shit, the new ACT flywheels are welding themselves to peoples cranks. The materials being used have a huge impact on things like this.

Joe, you can remvoe the turbine housing without removing the turbo, if you didnt know this already. Just take out the 4 turbo bolts, DP bolts, and O2 sensor (or unplug it), and undo the bandclamp. I could have the housing of the car and on the table for porting in 10 minutes when I used to do a lot of that.

I'm not a big fan of helicoils any more. They usually work, but something like timeserts seem much more effective. Especially in this hostile environment. Ask the machine shop, they may have some valuable input if they have experience with high temp/vibration equipment.

Okay, Kevin...I'll see what they can do. Would it be safe to have the turbine wheel exposed, even if it's under my hood? I have to park my car outside in a parking lot, and there's no telling when there will be rain.

That should be fine.