Synthetic oil....

My GP has 78K miles and have no oil leaks nor does it drink oil. Thinking about switching to synthetic oil. IS it basically too late to switch? any good brands? do i use a regular filter like the PF52?

Change whenever you like. Mobil 1 seems to be the oil of choice but Castrol, Penzoil or any of the others are as good. I use Amsoil in my vehicles but they recommend that the engine be flushed before installing their oil. So if you just want to change without any of the extra hassles the above brands are a good choice.
You may have some leakage around the valve cover gaskets once you change. Pontiac used a lacquer coated gasket on some engines and the synthetic oil tends to cause small leaks in that area.

i also heard the the first 2-3 oil changes still need to be done around 3000 miles since the synthetic cleans out the leftover gunk/buildup in the engine. is that true?

mobil 1 is your best bet with a detergent thats what my bubby and i use in our raceing motors and that what i use in my prix after the swap i did. you do need to be carefull with the first oil change because if they don't get all the old oil out it can gunk up bad, but it will clean itself out down the road. but yeah it will be a clean running engine down the road

i also heard the the first 2-3 oil changes still need to be done around 3000 miles since the synthetic cleans out the leftover gunk/buildup in the engine. is that true?

I also heard once you go synth you can't go back?
I put synth in my Harley and I could realy notice the improvement.
Wish I could afford it in my GP.

synthetic is definetly worth it. I switched to Mobil 1 on my 00 GTP at 50K and have had no problems with gunking. I did the first two changes at 3K on the dot, but I don't think it's absolutley necessary, maybe just good practice. Right now I'm at 68K and still no problems. I'll also add that the car did have non-synthetic oil when I got it.

hey Wylie, how much are you getting charged to switch to synth? If I remember correctly it was only about $20 more than non-synthetic.

Mobil1's website says you can switch back and forth....




Question:
Switching From Conventional Motor Oil to Mobil 1
There seems to be confusion about how to make the switch from conventional motor to synthetic. I am a do-it-yourselfer. Could you provide instructions?
-- Joe D., Miami, FL

Answer:
The instructions are very easy to follow: Simply change the oil as you would normally. Any “confusion” is just myth. You can switch from conventional motor oil to Mobil 1 synthetic (and back again, if you want), without following any special procedures. The only exception to this is with a higher-mileage engine that has never used synthetic motor oil, or with an engine that has used conventional motor oil and been poorly maintained. In these cases, you should still follow the same basic oil-change procedures (drain the old oil, remove the old oil filter, put in new Mobil 1 and put on a new oil filter), but you should follow a regimen of one or two shortened oil-change intervals. For instance, let’s say that your regular oil change interval is 5,000 miles. If you’re switching to Mobil 1 under the circumstances mentioned above, make your next Mobil 1 oil change in 2,500 miles, your third Mobil 1 oil change 3,500 miles after that, and then follow your normal 5,000 mile oil-change interval. The reasoning behind this staggered interval is that a high-mileage engine, or one that has seen infrequent oil changes, will likely have a considerable build-up of sludge and deposits. Mobil 1 will help clean the engine as you drive, but it will have to work much harder in a very “dirty” engine, and so it is best to change the oil more frequently for those first few thousand miles. After that, you can rest assured that Mobil 1 is continuing to keep your engine running clean and well lubricated for mile after mile.

In my not-so-humble opinion, the "3000 Mile Oil Change" is one of the greatest scams EVER perpetrated on the American public. It is an absolute waste to change your oil that frequesntly.....unless of course you race weekly or operate your vehicle in a very dusty, hot, or congested/urban environment.

It's just not necessary! I'm truly amazed that with all the oil price increases and national focus on conservation that no one has suggested to American motorists that they are throwing their money away by changing oil that frequently.

The stated interval in our owner's manual is what, every 7000 miles? Given the fact that GM has to warrant the engine, if your engine needed new oil every 3000 miles thay'd say so. GM doesn't want to replace any more engines under warranty than they have to!

Done with my rant......thank you and have a nice day! :lol2:

hey Wylie, how much are you getting charged to switch to synth? If I remember correctly it was only about $20 more than non-synthetic.

I checked it out about a year ago when I was at a Quaker lube shop
and it was almost double,I'm going to check again maybe its come down since then.
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at Advanced auto parts, its $5 per quart for Castrol syntec oil. So for $25 you can change your own oil using the synthetic stuff compared to the same price the local business' charge for conventional oil changes.

what weight would i go with? same ol 10w30 or what?

10w30.....yes sir!

In my not-so-humble opinion, the "3000 Mile Oil Change" is one of the greatest scams EVER perpetrated on the American public. It is an absolute waste to change your oil that frequesntly.....unless of course you race weekly or operate your vehicle in a very dusty, hot, or congested/urban environment.

It's just not necessary! I'm truly amazed that with all the oil price increases and national focus on conservation that no one has suggested to American motorists that they are throwing their money away by changing oil that frequently.

The stated interval in our owner's manual is what, every 7000 miles? Given the fact that GM has to warrant the engine, if your engine needed new oil every 3000 miles thay'd say so. GM doesn't want to replace any more engines under warranty than they have to!

Done with my rant......thank you and have a nice day! :lol2:

Are you serious? :eek7: Ok I'm confused...i figured with synthetic you could run longer between changes, I usually end up around 5000-5500, but with the 'conventional' oil wouldn't it be bad to wait that long?

I know the manual says 3000 - 7500, but isn't that dependent on environmental conditions that the car is driven in daily?

I dont' know if I could trust regular oil to that long...I love my car to much to risk conventional oil burning my engine up. Maybe i'm giving it a little overkill, but I want to keep my car and have it running as smooth as it does now for years to come, so to me it's more of a "good practice" to have the oil changed on a regular basis. Instead of 3k or 7k i split the difference and go for around 5k...but that's just my :2cents:

I checked it out about a year ago when I was at a Quaker lube shop
and it was almost double,I'm going to check again maybe its come down since then.
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At the shop I go to, it's somewhere around 38.95 for regular oil change, and 58.95 for synthetic...I know a few of the guys pretty well and bring them a lot of business so maybe they give me a little discount...I'm not sure, hopefully this will help you out some.

At the shop I go to, it's somewhere around 38.95 for regular oil change, and 58.95 for synthetic...I know a few of the guys pretty well and bring them a lot of business so maybe they give me a little discount...I'm not sure, hopefully this will help you out some.

20 bucks for a 5qt jug of Mobile 1 at walmart,wix oil filter 6 bucks = 26 bucks and a piece of mind knowing that you did it yourself :wink:


~Larry~

At the shop I go to, it's somewhere around 38.95 for regular oil change, and 58.95 for synthetic...I know a few of the guys pretty well and bring them a lot of business so maybe they give me a little discount...I'm not sure, hopefully this will help you out some.

You know its about the same here only in Canadian Peso's
So its accually cheaper here?
I think I might go for I just don't like the part about the posible leaks.
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Depending upon your environment and driving habits 5000-5500 miles is probably fine. Maybe a little excessive but so is synthetic oil. :p

The point I was really trying to make is that while politicians, environmentalists, and government agencies all stress conservation of oil, none of them suggest that excessive engine oil changes probably account for a significant amount of waste.

I would imagine that this is most likely due to the huge lobby influence big oil has over our elected officials.

soo what exactly does synthetic oil do? are there performance gains or does it just clean the engine? My gp only has 21K miles on it, so i'm thinking now's a good time to switch now while the mileage is still low.

Synthetic oil is supposed to maintain it's viscosity and resist break-down longer and under more extreme conditions. It's also mixd with detergents to keep your engine's internals cleaner.

The best way to find out what kind of interval you need to go by,is have an Oil Analysis done.


Here is something that everyone might find interesting.

Most of us already know that regularly scheduled oil and filter changes are a vital part of routine car maintenance that is necessary for engine longevity.
During the miles between changes, the oil in your vehicle's engine gradually becomes contaminated with soot, metal particles, gasoline and other impurities. As mileage accumulates, so do the contaminants in the oil. Eventually, enough impurities accumulate that the filter cannot remove them and the oil cannot keep them in suspension.

When this happens, the resulting sludge can dramatically shorten engine life.

Even though modern technology has vastly improved engines and the oils that lubricate them, regularly scheduled oil and filter changes are still a vital part of regular, preventative auto maintenance. The question is: Just how often does the oil need to be changed?

At regular intervals
The old mantra of responsible motorists that said, "Change your oil every 3,000 miles!" is being replaced. Today car manufacturers' recommendations for oil changes range from 5,000 to 7,500, or even 10,000 miles for many cars when operated under "normal" driving conditions—more often if conditions are "severe."

Before you relax, let me point out that the way most of us drive is listed as severe by the automotive experts. According to the owner's manuals of many new cars and trucks, normal operation of a vehicle is at least 20 minutes, at a medium speed with a steady throttle, and in a clean environment.

According to one car maker's owner's manual, the oil change interval is seven months or 7,500 miles under normal driving conditions, three months or 3,000 miles under severe conditions. This is how severe is defined in the manual:


Repeated, short distance driving.
Extended periods of idling or low speed operation.
Extensive use of brakes.
More than 50 percent driving in heavy city traffic during hot weather above 90 degrees F.
Driving for a prolonged period of time in cold temperatures and/or extremely humid climates.
Driving in dusty conditions or sandy areas.
Driving in areas where salt or other corrosive materials are being used.
Driving on rough or muddy roads.
Driving in mountainous areas.
Well, it looks like the old mantra about oil changes isn't out of date after all. But what about synthetic oils, don't they extend oil change intervals?

Several car manufacturers do recommend synthetic oil for their high-performance models because of the superior protection from friction and extreme temperatures. The protection comes from the processing required to manufacture the base stock and the different additive packages they require.

Despite this better performance, synthetic additives wear out just as they do in conventional motor oils, and need to be changed. The key is driving conditions — normal or severe.

How about just changing the oil filter, can a car be driven farther between oil changes?

Changing the filter is great, but the oil must be changed along with it, given that the oil's additives wear out and contaminants get into the oil itself. The filter can only capture the bigger particles suspended in the oil, not replenish spent additives.

Pinching pennies
From an economic point of view, it would appear that waiting an extra few thousand miles between changes will save money. For example, based on $25 oil changes every 5,000 miles instead of 3,000 miles, more than $300 is saved per 100,000 miles. Sounds pretty good, but if you drive the average of 17,000 miles a year, it will take you almost six years to reach that mileage — or $50 per year savings.

Extending the oil change interval beyond what the manufacturer recommends can seriously shorten the useful life of your engine, and cost you several times that $300 savings. Just ask a professional service technician how often he or she changes the oil and filter on their personal vehicle. Chances are the answer will be 3,000 miles.

That's the answer given by Don Beyer, automotive services director for AAA's Washington/Inland chapter. Beyer, an ASE master technician and former repair-shop owner, says that it is imperative to change the engine oil and filter every three months or 3,000 miles. "I'm doubtful that anyone, regardless of where they live, drives under the normal conditions defined in owner's manuals."

Bottom line: Don't push the limits of motor oil and flirt with damaging your car's engine, especially when chump change is all it takes for an oil change.

Good read Larry.

However, I stand by my statement that 3,000 mile oil changes, in most instances, are excessive. I've applied my theory to every car I've owned, the most recent of which:

-1981 Audi 4000 sold in 1995 with 250,000 miles on the clock
-1983 Porsche 944 sold in 1998 with 175,000 miles on the clock
-1992 Pontiac Sunbird convertible sold in 2000 with 135,000 miles on the clock
-1996 Pontiac Bonneville traded in with 145,000 miles on the clock

None were oil burners at the time of sale. I never ran synthetic in any of them either. My Grand Prix is the first to get that special treatment. :grinyes:

I guess at 48 it's hard to teach an old dog new trick's :biggrin: and all the cars ive owned,ill stick to 3,000 miles or 3 month's.Just for my old piece of mind :grinyes:

Give me a couple more years and I'll be doing the same thing. :lol:

My GP has 78K miles and have no oil leaks nor does it drink oil. Thinking about switching to synthetic oil. IS it basically too late to switch? any good brands? do i use a regular filter like the PF52?


I would suggest using Mobil 1 5W-30 5000 mile oil (non-synthetic) and the PF52 filter for the first oil change before using synthectic. This oil will clean your engine and then use Mobil 1 5W-30 15000 mile oil (full synthetic) and a Mobile 1 or K&N oil filter and run it for the full 15000 miles and if you do not like it, you can change back to any oil you want. You can even mix brands, the only thing you do not want to do is mix weights.

Walmart has the Mobil1 synthetic 5qt jug for $19.99 which i think is a good price. My local auto store wants $6 per qt.

............and on the eighth day Satan opened a discount store, and he said, "I shall call it Walmart."

Hey, i can get parts, oil or tires there cheaper than anyone else then i'll do it even though Walmart is a chaotic hell hole.

I know..........I'm just being a wise a$$ :rofl:

me and the wife fo grocery shopping there and we dread it so much. No matter what checkout line we pick, it seems to be the most time consuming one.

Hey lets not turn this into a thread for trashing Walmat now.
Just because they SUCK the life out of every small town in the country.

No.......no way would we EVER go off topic in the Grand Prix section. We are focused and motivated.

Walmart uses bully tactics with their suppliers. Most people don't know this. They tell their suppliers, "This is how much we will pay, take or leave it.....oh, and by the way, you can't sell it to our competitors for the the same amount or we'll drop you like a hot potato."

Walmart has been fined multiple times by the courts in the state of Missouri for making teens clock out, and work off the clock, so as to not go over the amount of hours they are legally allowed to work.

Blah blah......... synthetic oil is good......blah :icon16:

I think I'm about to make the switch to syth.
And I don't think we should be bad mouthing Walmart.
Even though they exploit single moms and other people that are desperate for work and have no choice but to work for wages below the poverty line.
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No.......no way would we EVER go off topic in the Grand Prix section. We are focused and motivated.

Walmart uses bully tactics with their suppliers. Most people don't know this. They tell their suppliers, "This is how much we will pay, take or leave it.....oh, and by the way, you can't sell it to our competitors for the the same amount or we'll drop you like a hot potato."

Walmart has been fined multiple times by the courts in the state of Missouri for making teens clock out, and work off the clock, so as to not go over the amount of hours they are legally allowed to work.

Blah blah......... synthetic oil is good......blah :icon16:

We never ever go off topic as long as I'm here!!!!!!! :nono:
Hey John,
How's the Cuda coming? How's the Wife feeling? Work OK?
What where we talking about before? Oh, it doesn't matter. We all come out here to help and have fun.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/kustomkid54/25020-1f.jpg

Hey Jim.

Cuda is coming along nicely. Engine goes back in Sunday. I'm running out of time to knock my buudy off so the car can be mine.

http://www.stlclubgp.com/uploads/pics/Engine%20Easter002.jpg

Tara is doing pretty well.......not too happy about giving herself insulin injections in the stomach......but otherwise pretty well. Kids are good. My son is pretty geeked up about his 16th birthday next month. Spent yesterday after school washing and waxing his car. He found a nice set of 17" wheels and tires for it.

Work is killing me. New job is a bit stressful.

Synthetic oil .......yadda yadda

Has anyone using synthetic just left hte oil and changed the filter? I do this every 2000 miles and oil every 5k... I usually dont see black oil till 3500 or so..

Hey Jim.

Cuda is coming along nicely. Engine goes back in Sunday. I'm running out of time to knock my buudy off so the car can be mine.

http://www.stlclubgp.com/uploads/pics/Engine%20Easter002.jpg

Tara is doing pretty well.......not too happy about giving herself insulin injections in the stomach......but otherwise pretty well. Kids are good. My son is pretty geeked up about his 16th birthday next month. Spent yesterday after school washing and waxing his car. He found a nice set of 17" wheels and tires for it.

Work is killing me. New job is a bit stressful.

Synthetic oil .......yadda yadda

When did you become Fred Fintstone? OH, that yabba yabba do. Shoot!!

Got to get the Cuda out of the barn. Have to gets grills going again. I waited up all last Christmas eve for them to show up under my tree, like you said they would. Shoot some big fat guy in a red suit, thought he took them.
Bring the guy down here. We'll take him fishing. We'll come back without him.

i dont like the stuff because it works so well it can cause leaks from your gaskets

mine has 105k miles, what weight of synth oil and oil filter should i use?

nearing an oil change and still leaning towards the synthetic oil. i now have 80500 miles and no leaks. So should i take the plunge?

nearing an oil change and still leaning towards the synthetic oil. i now have 80500 miles and no leaks. So should i take the plunge?


With 80,000 you may find a few new ones. Try it, high mileage cars are hard to say one way or the other if they will leak with synthetic oil.

Good luck.

i dont like the stuff because it works so well it can cause leaks from your gaskets

Who let this clown on the Pontiac GP forum? He's giving "off the wall" advice and making comments in which he has no knowledge of or experience in not only in this forum but others. Doesn't even own a Grand Prix.

Now he's making an unfounded or ridiculous comment that "it works so well it can cause leaks from your gaskets"????? What exactly is he attempting to communicate here......or am I missing something?

i dont like the stuff because it works so well it can cause leaks from your ears

Who let this clown on the Pontiac GP forum? What exactly is he attempting to communicate here......or am I missing something?

Here ya go bnaylor3400: I think you where missing something.
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Here ya go bnaylor3400: I think you where missing something.
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That's a good one, Wylie. "leaks from your ears" "leaks from your gaskets"...lol. Didn't miss that one. At least you can convey your message.

bnaylor3400, i think you are the clown!! Thats right, use that kind of oil, synthetic oil on a new car that it does not call for, and see what happens. If it calls for it, use it, if not dont. tell you what, get a car that does not reqiire synthetic oil, use it, and when you bring your car in for repairs, you now just voild your worr. Good LUCK!

bnaylor3400, i think you are the clown!! Thats right, use that kind of oil, synthetic oil on a new car that it does not call for, and see what happens. If it calls for it, use it, if not dont. tell you what, get a car that does not reqiire synthetic oil, use it, and when you bring your car in for repairs, you now just voild your worr. Good LUCK!

Now I'm missing something? I didn't think we were talking about new cars?
And I don't think its recomended to use synthetic for break in periods.

O and by the way, what planet were we on again???
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bnaylor3400, i think you are the clown!! Thats right, use that kind of oil, synthetic oil on a new car that it does not call for, and see what happens. If it calls for it, use it, if not dont. tell you what, get a car that does not reqiire synthetic oil, use it, and when you bring your car in for repairs, you now just voild your worr. Good LUCK!

Ummm, GM not only supports synthetic, their service department charges 43$ more for synthetic oil change... TROLL :twak

We never ever go off topic as long as I'm here!!!!!!! :nono:



Hey KustomKid54,

On a different topic other than this synthetic oil thread subject that has been beat to death, I really liked that "No Porno" graphic on your footer.
I wonder if "Moppie" has seen it....lol. That was a good one!

We old Hawkers never die, just get older. Later man!

Now I'm missing something? I didn't think we were talking about new cars?
And I don't think its recomended to use synthetic for break in periods.

O and by the way, what planet were we on again???
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Maybe I was was too harsh on vamc. Something got lost in the translation or what he was meaning to convey. He's actually a nice guy and means well. Got to give him an "A" for the effort.

I look into this, and you are 100% correct. im sorry. I have not had good results with synthetic oil.

To EVERYONE: i have not had good results with synthetic oil that is why i gave it a (-). Half of the people i have spoken to say they love it and will not switch back, but some say its junk. 50/50. Try it, you your runs better, stay with it, if you have problems, d/c it.

Maybe I was was too harsh on vamc. Something got lost in the translation or what he was meaning to convey. He's actually a nice guy and means well. Got to give him an "A" for the effort.

Your right the focus should be to help,and one of the things that make this forum great.
It takes a man to admit his mistakes.
You da man :o]

bnaylor3400 know his stuff as well. He is also a good guy.

bnaylor3400 know his stuff as well. He is also a good guy.

vamc..... I'm guessing your native tongue is not english??
Just curious.
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English is my native tongue. Im typing between this form and processing MD orders here at the hosp. I have been typing short hand all day. Spelling is a little off. Sorry for the spelling.

English is my native tongue. Im typing between this form and processing MD orders here at the hosp. I have been typing short hand all day. Spelling is a little off. Sorry for the spelling.

Hey no problem,I was thinking there might have been a translation issue.
this week has been a real killer.
Happy Friday!
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Hey KustomKid54,

On a different topic other than this synthetic oil thread subject that has been beat to death, I really liked that "No Porno" graphic on your footer.
I wonder if "Moppie" has seen it....lol. That was a good one!

We old Hawkers never die, just get older. Later man!

This is the new one of the week. Came from the St. Louis forum. (but don't tell them)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/kustomkid54/post-9-1113606325.jpg

Hey no problem,I was thinking there might have been a translation issue.
this week has been a real killer.
Happy Friday!
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Spelling, all guess work. The best part of school is when they brought out the milk and cookies. :sleeping:

Spelling, all guess work. The best part of school is when they brought out the milk and cookies. :sleeping:

KustomKid54,

You never cease to amaze me and continue to crack me up. Keep up the good humor. Maybe we're suffering from all that radiation we got off those crappy HAWK radars.....lol.

Back to the subject at hand. Castrol Syn. in my SC 'W" bodies and Castrol GTX in the normally aspirated. Afraid to put synthetic stuff in my son's Olds Alero GL2, it's too fickle as it is or worse yet, it might come to life.

FORD "Found on Road Dead" "Fix or Repair Daily"

KustomKid54,

You never cease to amaze me and continue to crack me up. Keep up the good humor. Maybe we're suffering from all that radiation we got off those crappy HAWK radars.....lol.

Back to the subject at hand. Castrol Syn. in my SC 'W" bodies and Castrol GTX in the normally aspirated. Afraid to put synthetic stuff in my son's Olds Alero GL2, it's too fickle as it is or worse yet, it might come to life.

FORD "Found on Road Dead" "Fix or Repair Daily"

FORD "F--ked on race day"

Castrol GTX, i use this all the time. this oil works the best for me, i never had a prob, w/ it. I recomend it for everybody. Now you want to change your oil q3m prn. lol

i was thinking about changing to synthetic on my 99 gt with 47,000 + miles. just wondering what kind of interval to change it at.

p.s. i live in tampa area, i.e. very hot in summer.