2000 Civic Si Motor

Everyone I ask for your opinions and help I have the oportunity to drop my non-vtech from my 95se integra and put in a 00 civic si vtech motor in its place. First thing will I see gains, how much worse is it then a gsr-vtech motor. Is it really that easy to swap out and will i have to take out the stock exhaust to see gains? please reply quickly I only have a couple of days to take advantge of this sick deal

scratch the straight swap how hard and what do I need to do a ls/vtech

dont stuff a b16 in your teg or do lsvtec spend the extra for a gsr.

if you want ls vtec SEARCH

A buddy of mine did that and it was was an easy swap and he's happy, but i am not so in to it ,because you are downgrading your engine from a 1.8 to 1.6.....that kinda non sense.

Well from personal experience i did that. Mainly due to lack of funds! Took out a totally destroyed b1 and put a b16a gen 2 with a gsr transmission.

As you know, stock hondas=no torque!
So downgrading .2 from a 1.8L you CAN FEEL a major loss in power. But when mated to a gsr tranny, my car comes alive in the higer RPMS and pulls much harder than the b1, not as much as a gsr but close.
If i had to do it again i would probaly put the same engine in, or buy a b20 and turbo it. I would never put a P.O.S.(in my opinion) B18B1 back into my car.

But swap wise you will need to use your obd1 harness on the obd2b motor. Besides wiring vtec selinoid, pressure sensor, and knock sensor, It will be a bolt in swap. The distributor from the 00 Si motor WILL not work! You can use your stock one and cut of the bottom ear that hits the vtec selinod!

--Andrew

A 00 si motor would be great if you get a good deal on it, but otherwise a si motor + LS tranny = ugh!

Whats the big difference between the SE tranny and The GSR tranny I have a manual obviously if im asking this question. I heard that American GSR's dont have the Limited slip.

I would take a B16 over a B18A or B any day of the week.

Kknorwj, why?

scratch the straight swap how hard and what do I need to do a ls/vtech

first off IMO do not do the ls/vtec. it has been posted in other threads before, but here:

ls vtec work much better with high CR. stay away from a turbo ls/vtec. i looked into building this engine, and to me for the money the cons outweigh the pros. Example: the vtec head doese not fit exactly on the ls block, therefore the head must A. be machined to fit the block or B. a ls/vtec conversion kit must be used. Next: the water pump on the gsr have i believe 21teeth and the ls have 19 teeth the gsr water pump must be switched. Also the gsr oil pump to the supply the needed oil to the head. Then the ls pistons will not be a good enough CR, so itr or gsr pistons are needed. Next the vtec oil line needed to tap the block to the head. In theory this is a brand new engine and all the bearings should be replace and everything should be resurfaced. Also a vtec controller or a gsr ecu. This just seemed like too much work. if this is not built correctly it will not last

Yep IMO, honda never made LS/VTEC engines for a reason. Now i am not saying that it cant be tuned to be reliable. But a lot of work is involved.

hey knorwj, B16 over b18, Yeah.... How do you like the b17a1? Does it seem to be equivalant to a b16a gen1?

A buddy of mine did that and it was was an easy swap and he's happy, but i am not so in to it ,because you are downgrading your engine from a 1.8 to 1.6.....that kinda non sense.

would it make sense if he was downgrading from a B18b1 to a B16B CTR?? CTR engine has all around more HP/TQ than any LS motor.

hey knorwj, B16 over b18, Yeah.... How do you like the b17a1? Does it seem to be equivalant to a b16a gen1?


the way I see it the B16 is a superior motor, better r/s, higher revving, more horsepower. Now I know that the B16a has about 15 ft/lbs less torque but I honestly don't think he'll miss it too much. especially once he gets it up over 6000 rpm. One thing that I think he may run into problems with though is the fact that (correct me if I'm wrong) the 00 Si is OBD2 and the 95 integra is OBD1... so he'll have to look into that, I'm not sure whats involved in fixing that problem.


As far as how I like my B17A... well I love it, great motor for a 2nd gen... little hard to find parts for if you don't know where to look. Secret is that it is the same motor (exept for a slight stroke advantage)as a B16a3 sooo everything from a B16a3 will fit my motor exept crank and rods. I used to be able to run dead even or better than the newer B18c powered gs-r stock for stock. Just for reference my motor puts out 160 hp and 117ft/lbs torque only 6 ft/lbs more than a B16 and 10 hp less than the one he wants I think, and like I said no problems with newer gs-r's. Its too bad the B18c didn't have a better flowing head like the B16/B17/b18c5, it might have made a diffeference in its numbers.

the way I see it the B16 is a superior motor, better r/s, higher revving, more horsepower. Now I know that the B16a has about 15 ft/lbs less torque but I honestly don't think he'll miss it too much. especially once he gets it up over 6000 rpm. One thing that I think he may run into problems with though is the fact that (correct me if I'm wrong) the 00 Si is OBD2 and the 95 integra is OBD1... so he'll have to look into that, I'm not sure whats involved in fixing that problem.


As far as how I like my B17A... well I love it, great motor for a 2nd gen... little hard to find parts for if you don't know where to look. Secret is that it is the same motor (exept for a slight stroke advantage)as a B16a3 sooo everything from a B16a3 will fit my motor exept crank and rods. I used to be able to run dead even or better than the newer B18c powered gs-r stock for stock. Just for reference my motor puts out 160 hp and 117ft/lbs torque only 6 ft/lbs more than a B16 and 10 hp less than the one he wants I think, and like I said no problems with newer gs-r's. Its too bad the B18c didn't have a better flowing head like the B16/B17/b18c5, it might have made a diffeference in its numbers.

A lot of good points Plus the almost perfect 1.74 R/S ratio which allows the high revving safely.

You guys are completely clueless. Some of you, anyways.

A HIGH R/S RATIO DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN MOTOR A IS BETTER THAN MOTOR B AT PRODUCING HIGH RPM POWER!

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNzY4MzMwNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

Oh snap, it's a GSR revving to 10.5K, but that shouldn't happen because it has a worse R/S ratio than the B16 :rolleyes:

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNzgwOTY5NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

Another GSR revving to 10.5, WTF are they thinking!

Courtney Green, Brian Ballard, and Jason Pennman all run LS/VTEC motors in their NDRA Turbo 4 cars. I don't know if you browse Honda-Tech, but Green just made over 800 WHP on gasoline, with a street car. Go do that with a B16 if it's a superior motor :rolleyes:

travagliante: The B16B might make the same or more PEAK horsepower and torque as a GSR motor, but it makes less average HP and torque than a GSR, which is all that matters.

What kinda work and money are we talking about with those graphs? That's insane for a teg.

everything i said with the LS/Vtec was correct. I did not say it was unreliable for various reasons. The only thing i said that if not built correctly it will not last. An Ls/vtec is not something that should be done by an inexperienced builder. As for turbo, no a turbo should not be used on a Stock block. The engines above have been sleeved most likely with dart or godzilla sleeves, they can withstand boost where as a stock block with high compression should not be boosted.

You guys are completely clueless. Some of you, anyways.

A HIGH R/S RATIO DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN MOTOR A IS BETTER THAN MOTOR B AT PRODUCING HIGH RPM POWER!




I hope you weren't refering to me because I never said anything about the r/s ratio having any type of correlation to the power output at high rpm. And another thing as I remember it we were comparing a B16 to a b18 a/b not a B18C like the ones you were talking about.

The only reason I mentioned the B18c was because someone asked about my gs-r with the B17, So I compared mine to a newer B18c powered gs-r, and said that my 2nd gen B17 powered gs-r is just as fast if not faster than most 3rd gen B18c powered gs-r's stock for stock. That is as far as I know the only reason B18c was ever mentioned in this thread.

Anyway As I have stated before I would go with a B16 over a B18 a/b, however if he had mentioned getting a B18c or even a B18c5 I would recomend one of those, He did not mention either of those two so given the choice of a B16 or a non-vtec ls engine my personal choice would be the sportier, more fun to drive, but not necasarily more powerful or faster B16.

everything i said with the LS/Vtec was correct. I did not say it was unreliable for various reasons. The only thing i said that if not built correctly it will not last. An Ls/vtec is not something that should be done by an inexperienced builder. As for turbo, no a turbo should not be used on a Stock block. The engines above have been sleeved most likely with dart or godzilla sleeves, they can withstand boost where as a stock block with high compression should not be boosted.

Damn. And for the over a year I drove my stock block LS at 300 WHP I thought they were a decent motor to turbo. I guess I was wrong :rolleyes:

Damn. And for the over a year I drove my stock block LS at 300 WHP I thought they were a decent motor to turbo. I guess I was wrong :rolleyes:

Did you read the whole thread I said LS/Vtec stock was not a good engine to turbo because of the high C/R. I DID NOT SAY THE B18 as an engine was bad to turbo. Read the whole thread b4 you decide to be an ass. i was assuming everyone knew i was talking about an LS/VTEC.

I hope you didnt mean me. I was refering to a stock motor with a better r/s ratio can rev more safely and put less stress on the cyl. walls. Looking at those dyno graphs, that motor was far from stock!

Did you read the whole thread I said LS/Vtec stock was not a good engine to turbo because of the high C/R. I DID NOT SAY THE B18 as an engine was bad to turbo. Read the whole thread b4 you decide to be an ass. i was assuming everyone knew i was talking about an LS/VTEC.

Yeah man, 9.6:1 or 9.7:1, that is insane. Ignoring the fact that CP makes a 9.8:1 turbo piston, and my new turbo shortblock is 10:1 CR, there is no way you can run that high of compression with a turbo!

What kinda work and money are we talking about with those graphs? That's insane for a teg.

Not an awful lot. A sleeved motor with some good (pauter, crower, etc) rods, a good flowing head, a big intake manifold, big cams, and a big turbo. You don't need to do anything earth shattering, or anything you can't get basically off the shelf.

Bump too, because I want to know what slow integra has to say about the inability to run high compression turbo setups :rolleyes:

YEAH, 800 whp is like 250 more then i have ever heard of! I would love to see a video of that beast getting dynoed!

dynoed...lmao, i would love to see a video of that thing getting traction.

The bottom line is this. B16's are different. You are comparing apples and oranges. B18b is a lower reving higher tq motor, where is the b16 was designed to rev higher and have more hp.

I guess the best way to sum it up is this, I don't remember where or who from I read it but it is a great way to put it:
"Torque wins races, HP wins shows" If boosting the car, either will be fun.
I personally would match the b18b with an LS tranny but what the hell do I know;)