Newbie Hello!

Hey Guys and Girls
Just a newie dropping you a line to tell you that I just bought an early 90's 240sx SOHC that is going to be one bada$$ ice racer by the end of the summer. Just for you purists out there, no worries I am not wrecking a perfectly good 240. I rescued this one from a salvage yard with minimal damage.
I saw this car sitting there, did a little research on it and decided it would make a great RWD ice racer.
Any thoughts, suggestions or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
I have some big plans for this car and am sure I will have lots of questions along the way so I look forward to chatting with those in the know here.
Thanks is advance and I will post pics as the build-up progresses
BTW The name stems from my days on the dirt in a modified so this should be a big but fun change!

First of all welcome to the forum. This is a great place to get information and u will get tons of help. Good luck on your project too.

BTW what is an Ice Racer?

What's Ice Racing, and you thought drifting required some skill. Check out the following links. They take a little time to load but are worth the wait. There are different classes represented here and keep in mind these were fairly warm days. Well except for the first video, but you'll see.

This one will do some explaining.

http://www.iceracingthunderbay.com/videofiles/weatherchannelhigh.wmv

And these are just for fun.

http://www.iceracingthunderbay.com/videofiles/nowthisisiceracinghigh.wmv

http://www.iceracingthunderbay.com/videofiles/proamhigh.wmv

Let me know what you think.
This time next year there will be the first 240 sx in the mix and hopefully at the front.

cool.. welcome to the forum. I don't think anyone here does ice racing so you won't get much info on that... for your car? haha... no place else.

ice racing looks pretty fun... seems like you don't need much effort to slide your car.. it's just the control that's hard. (wouldn't it be easier and superior with a subaru or something?)

A Subaru would put you in a much higher class with the AWD cars and now you need to start building some major horses to be competitive. Besides, easier doesn't always mean fun and believe me this is more fun than you can imagine. The 240 will be in the RWD rubber to ice class, meaning no studs allowed in the tires. In this class big horse power is a big hassel. Try getting traction when a turbo spools up. :banghead:
Its kinda like drifting on wet, smooth pavement only less traction. However, once you get it going you can really haul a$$. Oh ya breaking can be a little tricky too.
We have everything from bone stock chevettes to 350 hp VW's and 400 hp AWD turbo Talons.
What else are you gonna do in the winter around here, Its Canada. So we play hockey and ice race!

Cool, another canadian, well good luck with a 240 on ice, hope it works out for you.

yeah, very interesting.. those videos, especially the first one, make canadians look like how most americans see us.. he had a crazy accent you only hear west of sudbury and east of calgary.. anyways, i'd be crazy good at that.. my street is never plowed so it all turns to ice by late january.. i slide around all the corners!! lots of fun in an echo!!

what kind of mods do you plan on doing besides turbo?? and you mentioned traction.. i'd highly reccommend finding the narrowest tires on earth to have any traction with a rwd car.. and once you get going i'm sure drifting won't be too tough.. just get used to the car and how it responds and you'll be good.
is it me or was there only 3 or 4 rwd/awd cars there?? or were rabbits rwd??
i saw an rx7 somewhere too..

ah ic... that sounds like mad fun. If i was up there i'd definitely try it out. Too bad they only have autoX here...

-get good tires
-LSD (2way Kazz)
-get brake lines and pads (steel lines and decent pads)
-stiff the body (if u can spot weld the frame, and get sway bars and tension rod)

u will be in a good shape...

The logic on what you can do is a little backwards to most forms of racing. In the RWD rubber class (no studs) you can do anything you want to the engine, but it does you little good. More power just means more problems hooking up.
As for tires, wider is better. Skinny works well in deep snow but just like on pavement you want a big footprint to get optimum traction. And yes it is just like drifting once you get going only with way more slide. Find the point where you can slide and still have traction and you are off.
There are some RWD cars but more FWD cars. CRX's, civics and the VW's are all the rage in the FWD class. Chevettes (God knows why) and RX7's in the RWD. As far as I know this will be the first 240 out there, in our area anyway.
As far as setup, almost anything goes. There in lies the reason for me being here. I will have to experiment to find out what works well on ice. The setup will be similar to auto x as the ice track is road course style. My experience has shown that a pavement setup is a good start and then soften it up from there to transfer weight better in the corners. I have already added a front upper tie bar and will do the same in the back by tieing in the roll cage to the upper strut mounts and triangulating it. I am thinking of starting with no rear sway bar for better weight tranfer coming out of the corners onto the drive tires. I will have no resutls until next season as racing has just ended for the year.
Any and all setup ideas will be taken under consideration. Especially thoughts on front and rear end geometry.
Thanks
BTW We have a spec tire, the Bridgestone Blizzack, any size or diameter

I think your alot less of a newbie than most of the people we get around here. Good luck with the racing, sounds like lots of fun!

A diff as stiff as a KAAZ will likely be overkill on the Ice. It will probably just end up causing understeer all over the place. a VLSD (with tons of Additives so it will work ok cold) will probably be more than enough.

Id look into Overfenders to Run Wide / Low Offset Wheels Also you'll be able to get the car lower once you saw out the OEM Fender Behind it. That will help your CG the most and the added Bump from clearing out the fender an harness will allow you two run a way soft spring.

Is there a spool available for the 240? i do not need to lock and unlock on ice so a complete lockup is best. Mini or full spool would work great.

you mean turbo?

you mean turbo?


Bwhahahahahahahah!11111!!!!1lolZ1!1




Well I would have thought a Stiff Diff would be detrimental. but no I've Never seen any Spools for 240s... Just Weld An OEM - Its Cheap and Its not like Ice Racers are so advanced as to need to spend 500 bucks to lose 3lbs of rotational mass.

well a spool wouldn't help with something like this would it?? all it does is lock the wheels on either side of the diff.. i don't know maybe it would help but thats not what i initially thought of when he said spool.. an lsd is the best for drifting and this is basically the same thing but you have very limited traction between drifts so why would you want to lock up both wheels??

Yes, a weld is the easiest solution but could lead to other problems if slag gets inside or the wled is contaiminated with gear oil (that stuff is hard to get rid of!)
My backgroud is in dirttrack racing and a spool for a ford 9 inch is cheap and effective.
As for a locker, no you want both wheels driving all the time. Optimum traction on the straits and it makes it easier to get the car loose in the corners.
I know you would not think that would be a problem on ice but when you get in the gas coming out of the corner the RWD cars tend to push bad. The full lock in the rear helps to break the car loose as the outside wheel starts to over-rotate to keep pace with the inner wheel.
So, no known spools then, I will wait it out and look around, but, yes I can see a weld on those spiders in the future.
As for the weight lose, if I can take a pound off of the car I will do it. We have no weight restrictions so every pound counts.

Thanks to all responses so far, I think I will stick around.
Hope you enjoyed the videos!

i can't find anything.. normally its used in trucks isn't it??

im at work so i cant watch those videos, but i think i have seen that ice racing stuff before. is it just a small oval track? i saw that on espn2 or speed channel i think and it looked hella fun. tiny ass track with like 6 or 7 cars just going crazy. i would love a chance to fuck around with that. or do you do something different than what im thinking of? what are the tracks shaped like?

No ovals here, raod course style and we sometimes change the track during the year. Its easy to do just plow out a new course. The track is usually about a mile long with at least one big straight away for some big time speed, as high as 150 mph for the top dogs using studs. But for the rubber to ice guys its all about driver ability, all the money in the world can't buy you traction!

damn thats pretty cool. do you run into tuning issues because of the altitude?

Not sure where you think I am but altitude is not a problem here as we are only a couple hundred feet above sea level. The highest mountain around here is only about 1100 feet and even that would not affect tuning.

oh ok. only reason i asked is cuz the one race i saw on tv (the one with just the oval track) they were in Europe somewhere i think at a hella high altitude and the commentators were talking about how the teams with turbos always had problems at this one track because it was a lot higher up.

As for a locker, no you want both wheels driving all the time. Optimum traction on the straits and it makes it easier to get the car loose in the corners.
I know you would not think that would be a problem on ice but when you get in the gas coming out of the corner the RWD cars tend to push bad. The full lock in the rear helps to break the car loose as the outside wheel starts to over-rotate to keep pace with the inner wheel.



Yeah But you have a limited power / Grip enviroment so Id hardly call a Spool Nessicary. On Ice even the most fubar VLSD could hold 150HP. Eh, maybe Im thinking about this from a too Roadish prespective but you want a car with a tad of oversteer coming in to turn in and a tad of push coming out of the Corner so you can keep the pedal down. Locked LSDs will cause a 240 to Understeer at Turn in hardcore unless some action is taken to unsettle the car (clutch kick / Feint). But I guess the general lack of traction on Ice takes care of that...



...Tis a Pickle, no doubt about it.

lol i thought that when he said ice racing i thought it meant u were going 2 put a loud stereo system and race it stock

So understeer coming out of a corner is a normal problem in the 240? Thats good to know, however a little flick of the throttle on ice should let the back loose without a problem. I will gladly take a little push in exchange for forward momentum on ice.
That is another reason i would like to find a spool, if it turns out to be a problem with push on exit I can remove it. Welded spiders on the other hand are a might bit permanent. As well, a LSD is much more xpensive that a spool.

Any auto x or road course guys out there that can give me some pointers on typical handlying problems with the 240? or perhaps areas that need special attention (ie tie bars, strut flex, run with or without the sway bars etc)
Thanks

Well the breaks are junk... get a new master cylinder and the lines. Rebuild the calipers too.

The S13 handles well but I changed the bushing on mine and I have coilovers, tie rods and tension rods. The tension rods have rubber bushings on them that is worn out...when the car is under stress the stock tension rod causes the steering wheel to shake. I did the tie rod upgrade to make the steering wheel more responsive (its adjustable)

Plus, I also have LSD KAZZ 2way and its a very important... with it u can control the car with the throttle.

I have -2.7 chamber front, -.5 chamber and 1/8 tow rear. Sway bar 27 front, 25 rear.

Also don't drop the car TOOO low... I have plenty of travel for my coilovers..

The under steer comes on and of depending on the elevation of the course or the stickiness of the tiers... I really don't understeer that much unless I lock my rear tiers... people usually make a big deal on the S13 understeer problem.. From my driving experience...its not as bad. I drive my car in canyons and tracks and I do experience understeer...but with some throttle the car is ok..

I though that I my car will go straight in every turn, but that was not true, trust me 240 handles well with some upgrades. Remember, the car is OLD u need to replace allot of worn out parts

. Be smooth with the car… break at the last minute and keep on the gas as much as u can. Take advantage of the WOT and u will be ok!