Deep sounding exhaust suggestion?

I wanna do a exhaust on my 98 GTP but I don't want one of those mufflers that people strap onto their imports that sound like rattling coffee cans screwed on to the exhuast (no offense to anyone out there). I want something that has a deep rumble, somewhat like a V8, and I don't wanna spend a couple hundred on a system I don't like the sound of later.

Any suggestions?

You might want to listen to some of these before making up your mind.Exhaust sound clips click here (http://www.rmcgp.com/exhaust/ )


~Larry~

Great, thanks for link Larry.

I went with a pair of Ansa stainless mufflers. At first I was worried that they looked a bit ricey but decided that they didn't. I had these installed when my car was at 5,000 on the clock. It seemed a little loud to me but that was because I was used to the stock exhaust. I got used to the sound and really liked it.

Now, two years later, they mufflers have worn in nicely. They sound ferocious, without being excessively loud! If I had an audio clip I'd post it. Maybe I need to make one. It's about as close to the V8 growl as I've heard on a 6 cylinder GP.

My advice to you is that, whatever exhaust you go with, keep your resinator. Every GP I've ever heard that had the resonator removed sounds like crap. The exhaust cackles like a freakin' hen house.

I did notice in a lot of those clips with the exhaust when the cars would de-rev they would cackle a lot and i was thinking that was maybe just going to come with the exhaust. Was going to attempt to advoid that, thanks for info carnutcass.

I was thinking about going with the Borla Exhaust, i thought that the flowmasters sounded nice but can't find them anywhere, would like something a little cheaper than the Borla though heh, have a wedding i have to help pay for.

With getting the Borla at PFYC (http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PFYC&Product_Code=GP5001&Product_Count=0&Category_Code=GPEXH) does that take care of the U-bend at all or is there anything else that i should invest in when putting it all in? I figure i will have to take it to a place like Midas to have them install it for me because i have no way of welding the components, unless it doesn't weld and all plugs into eachother. Might say but i prolly missed on description.

Any suggestions well appreciated!

Thanks again.

I did notice in a lot of those clips with the exhaust when the cars would de-rev they would cackle a lot and i was thinking that was maybe just going to come with the exhaust. Was going to attempt to advoid that, thanks for info carnutcass.

I was thinking about going with the Borla Exhaust, i thought that the flowmasters sounded nice but can't find them anywhere, would like something a little cheaper than the Borla though heh, have a wedding i have to help pay for.

With getting the Borla at PFYC (http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PFYC&Product_Code=GP5001&Product_Count=0&Category_Code=GPEXH) does that take care of the U-bend at all or is there anything else that i should invest in when putting it all in? I figure i will have to take it to a place like Midas to have them install it for me because i have no way of welding the components, unless it doesn't weld and all plugs into eachother. Might say but i prolly missed on description.

Any suggestions well appreciated!

Thanks again.


If you go with a cat-back system it is bolt on and there is no welding required.

Cat-back does not replace the U-bend.Unbend is before the cat-back system.Im sure there are more then a Midas exhaust shop in Spokane,find a good custom exhaust shop that has been around for a few years in your yellow pages.Ive heard of to many horror story's with people going to Midas.

Here is another nice system, GMPP exhaust and they use Magnaflow mufflers and it's 519 bucks to your door.

http://www.paceperformance.com/images/products/manufacturer/GM/images/12498617EXHAUST_FULL.jpg

Part# 12498617 thru www.gmpartsdirect.com

GM Performance Parts W-car replacement exhaust system constructed of 409 stainless steel tubing and 304 stainless muffler & tips. The 4-inch stainless tips exit under the rear bumper and have an adjustable depth to accommodate both the stock bumper and ground effects kits. This package adds a "Throaty" rumble while maintaining a comfortable interior noise level. 2 1/2" tubing.

Good luck on your choice.


~Larry~

Does look like a setup Larry, and a little less punch at the wallet.

I would prefer something with the quad tips at the rear, similar to what yours and carnutcass have on yours, would i just have to order tips from somewhere or you think i could make a request for the quads?

As for Midas, i know of their service and problems people have, dad had an out with them with his old Grand Am's exhaust, he bought it with lifetime warranty and they wouldn't honor it at one location and checked another, then had to wait 2 months for them to get the "right lines and mufflers" because they were misordered or some excuse.

I guess i will just have to get off my lazy arse and go look for someone better to help out with the instalation.

Again thanks for the advice Larry!

Forget the chain stores. Most cities/towns have locally owned muffler and brake shops that work hard to please their customers.

Best place to get the dual stainless steel tips are from www.fasttoys.net those are the one's I have and most GP's @ Clubgp,that have switched to dual tip's.For the price you cant beat them ! 85.99 a pair.

Those will need to be welded on.


http://fasttoys.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=157_162_208_298&products_id=183

http://fasttoys.net/shop/images/stra25.gif

Great thanks for all the info Larry.

Next and most likely final question is what about the U-bend?

Would the exhaust system from GMPD take care of that or is that something i still have to get taken care off that is a diff part? i really haven't looked underneathe the car yet so no 100% sure what it all looks like around the exhaust. From what i understand it is welded in behind the cat or am i thinking of another part?

i have these Ractive tips. They fit real nice within the exhaust cutouts in the rear fascia.

http://www.cartoys.com/cartoy/images/productimages/pa/T815_med.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/698000-698999/698028_2_full.jpg

Next and most likely final question is what about the U-bend?

Would the exhaust system from GMPD take care of that or is that something i still have to get taken care off that is a diff part? i really haven't looked underneathe the car yet so no 100% sure what it all looks like around the exhaust. From what i understand it is welded in behind the cat or am i thinking of another part?

Here is a pic of the U-Bend and the cat-back system would not replace that part.Its before the cat-back.
http://www.pfyc.com/store/graphics/new/wb5001.jpg

You can either have an exhaust shop make you one or buy one from www.grandprixstore.com

http://www.pfyc.com/store/graphics/new/wb5001s.jpg

The Ubend delete was the 1st mod i did. It costs $40 at my local exhaust shop. When i get my Dynomax ST's, i plan to have this place install them. He said he would charge $70 to install the muffs and re-do the Y and on back.

Do you NEED to remove the U-bend. From everything I've heard people remove it because it is restrictive on the exhaust, however, I heard GM says that it isn't a restrictive point. So, is the U-bend that restrictive and if it isn't, what advantage does removing it have?

Also, Other than not having to be welded on, does a cat-back system have any advantages over welded system?

Do you NEED to remove the U-bend. From everything I've heard people remove it because it is restrictive on the exhaust, however, I heard GM says that it isn't a restrictive point. So, is the U-bend that restrictive and if it isn't, what advantage does removing it have?



This is a quote from Wizbang @ ZZP

Figure 1
http://www.zzperformance.com/articles_img/12_1.jpg

For quite some time, there has been many claims and conjectures about the performance impact from removing the factory U-Bend in the exhaust system on the GM 3800 Liter V6 (Naturally Aspirated L36 and Supercharged L67). For those who are not familiar with the U-Bend, it is a bend that GM designed into the exhaust pipe exiting the catalytic converter. (See Figure 1) The purpose of the bend it to permit the O2 sensor downstream of the catalytic converter to be mounted in a position that would provide the maximum protection from possible road hazard damage. The downside of this configuration is that the bend poses a moderate restriction to exhaust flow. A popular modification is to replace the U-Bend with a straight pipe that contains a fitting for the O2 sensor. The sensor is typically mounted in a horizontal position to provide accessibility and keep it out of harms way as much as possible.

To help resolve these claims and conjectures, I obtained a test vehicle (Pontiac Grand Prix GT, L36 engine) that had a complete factory exhaust system. This factory exhaust system included cast iron exhaust manifolds, catalytic converter in the down pipe, U-Bend, resonator and dual rear mufflers. The testing would involve replacement of the U-Bend with a straight pipe that would include a port for mounting the post-cat O2 sensor.

Prior to the installation, I collected performance data to baseline the car’s performance. After this data was collected,

I pulled down the down pipe with the U-Bend and replaced the bend with a straight pipe.
Once this modification was competed, I repeated the performance tests. The weather conditions for the day were warm and humid. During the testing with the U-Bend, the temperature was 83ºF, Humidity of 78% and a barometer of 30.02 "of Hg. The engine was thoroughly heat soaked and running 192ºF by the PCM’s Engine Coolant Temperature values. A total of 12 passes were used to collect all the performance data, with 4 replications for any one parameter. The results for replicated runs of each parameter were averaged together in the final analysis. The test conditions with the U-Bend removed were nearly identical, the temperature held at 83ºF, Humidity of 83% and a barometer of 29.95 "of Hg. The GT was running on 93 octane, has 8,000 miles on the engine.
As can be seen in the charts, the gains in peak HP and Torque were ~5.0 HP and 2.9 ft-lbs respectively. Also noteworthy is the torque and resulting HP curves were benefited throughout the entire RPM range. This data does not support many beliefs that removing the U-Bend will improve the upper RPM power & torque and sacrifice low end power & torque. A 1% increase in volumetric efficiency and total volumetric flow rate was also seen, which corroborates the increase in HP and Torque. Also interesting is the slight increase in overall spark advance through reduction in Knock Retard. About 2º of advance was picked up. This increase in spark advance and the slight improvement in volumetric air flow is what produce the small but significant performance gains. My conclusion is this modification has benefits all round.

While these results were obtained on a relatively stock GT, they are representative of the gains to be made on more significantly modified L36 engines as well as L67 engines. The more modified the L36, the more restrictive the U-Bend becomes and the more it constricts power increases. I would estimate proportional increase would be observed on an L67 supercharged engine. If this is the case, the U-Bend replacement on an L67 engine would extrapolate to a gain of 6 Peak HP and 3.5 ft-lbs Peak Torque. While these gains are not huge, they are significant and provide an edge over cars still running with the U-Bend in place.

- article contributed by Jim Wierzbicki on August 15, 2002... Thanks Jim!

http://www.zzperformance.com/articles_img/12_2.jpg

Also, Other than not having to be welded on, does a cat-back system have any advantages over welded system?

Most exhaust shops use a press bend,which can crimp the pipe at some degree in the bend.There are alot more exhaust shops starting to us a mandrel bender,but Id check to see what they are using before you have one made.All Cat-back system's use a Mandrel bending machine which does a smooth bend with no crimp.

Here is a picture of what a mandrel bending machine can do.

http://www.magnumforce.com/images/product_images/exhaust/ubends_2.jpg

Sorry for the book,but you asked for it :lol:

Thanks for all the great info Larry!

Will definately have the u-bend removed, especially with how much i plan on doing with the car.

Thanks for all the great info Larry!

Will definately have the u-bend removed, especially with how much i plan on doing with the car.


No problem,glad to help.

I got magnaflow on mine and its a great rumble. nothing like a pissed off weed wacker like on a honda. Once you get into it on the highway, you will will love magneflow for your car. trust me!

i wonder how the Summit Racing Turbo muffs are? Not sure if they are a hollow muff or packed.