Countershaft Killers!

Anyone know of any draw backs in eliminating the 2 countershafts in the '01 quad 4 engine? I can get blank shafts machined here in town and also get them heat treated locally also to drive the oil pump (I think it's the oil pump that the one shaft drives). The "Blanks" would eliminate all the HP robbing rotation from the original shafts. As far as I know they are only there for people with sensitive ears who complain too much and eliminating them can add up to 18hp.

Oh, one more thing, you guys have to check out my Ram air setup, I call it the triple port feeder. I'll post picks tomorrow :D


Thanks in advance,
Marc

Awesome, can't wait to see those pics marc.

About those shafts - aren't those the internal balance shafts? I know they don't exist in us V'ers, because our two banks of pistons counteract each other's vibrations - but you Inline'ers need them to keep everything spinning smoothly without vibrations tearing the bearings to shreads. I'm not sure if you and I are thinking about the same part, but if it's the internal-balancer, I would deffinately not remove it. I've never heard of anyone removing a balancer for added HP, but like I said, maybe we're talking about different parts.

Yep, those are them. They were only introduced when the 2.3l switched to 2.4l.

Read this little blurb, it was taken from a site which for I am posting the link below, it has some pretty good ideas and mods for the Quad. GM performance actually sells the replacement blanks to do this exact job I'm talking about so that you don't have to rig an oil pump elsewhere.

Balance shafts alone weigh nearly 21 pounds. They smooth things out considerably, but at the expense of power. Just because 2.4s pump out 150 hp max and 2.3Ls were rated at 180 doesn’t mean that the balancers cost 30 horsepower. There are some adverse effects on windage in the crankcase, true, but the 2.4L was re-engineered to boost torque at horsepower’s expense. The shafts most likely cost 15-18 horsepower. Thinking about yanking them? Not so fast: you’ll need a new oil pump drive gear at the back of your crank. Converting the 2.4 to the early 2.3 oil pump drive requires some precision machining of new oil passages in the block and the fitting of the pre ’95 2.3 oil pump and the corresponding crank drive gear, which must be shrunk onto the crank after removing the stock 2.4 gear. The oil pan and the oil pump body must both be machined down substantially to clear the pump in the pan. Extra machining is necessary to reinstall the 2.3 windage tray (which should not be forgotten in the conversion for improved oil control).
http://www.superstreetonline.com/techarticles/16138/

Hmmm.... well I'd say it sounds like a deffinately worthy mod then. It's a bit more then I would want to get myself into, seeing as how I've only toredown a 2.4 once, but you seem to know a ton about the quad four, so I'm sure you'll be able to handle it Mark :)

I have the brains......I lack the funding:( My money is being tied in preping our house for sale, I need a bigger one. Once that's taken care of I'll spend some money on the GA. For now I've just been experimenting with it. I'm almost done my front bumper (I know, it's been almost a month since I started on it). It'll go nice with my custom ram-air setup. I modified the air box and mounted it in front of the rad below and just back of the license plate and ran three hoses from it to the throttle body (which I think I will install the 71mm LS1 TB in it's place). Buddy, it sounds awesome, a little louder and grunty than stock, but because of the three ports in the air box, once you hit 3500rpm you start hearing this woooooosh noise which gets louder as you climb right up to 6500 than bam it shifts and starts all over again! It sounds just like it's turbo charged! At 100klicks when you put it in 2nd(AT) and tromp on it you really feel it pull now. That Ram air made a big difference. A guess would say just above the stock six for HP.

Oh yeah, I jimmy rigged a scoop on it for now also.

Oh yeah, I jimmy rigged a scoop on it for now also.

BADASS!! :biggrin: :evillol:

Man, I totally cannot wait to see pics now! :) That setup you described sounds wicked. I remember the pics you posted before of the base mold, and now it sounds like it's turned out really badass. I have a WAI / shortram setup with some cold air lines and a homemade cold air box that I kind of thought was "unique" but it aint nothin compared to yours - it sounds incredibly awesome - You gotta get those on here Marc.

I'll have them tomorrow, the setup could work on the v6 also. If I do change to a 71mm tb (and after exhaust work) I'm thinking of making a new intake manifold out of aluminum and running two modified air boxes instead of the one, that should give me some good breathing!

^ ^ Oh hell yeh man. 71 mm is huge for a TB - that things going to be a hell of a lot less restricted then the stocker 59 mm (or maybe it was 57). An aluminum intake manifold would kick ass too - custom sheet metal manifolds are the way to go. How would the two air box setup work? two filters / lines, and then join them or what?

Yeah, basically. I would probably create a "y" port at the TB with the two hose from each box connecting into it. Instead of having the TB on top of the manifold like is normal on the 2.4, I would have it on the bottom so my air hose can go right in to the TB right from underneath the rad (which is where my Hose for the ram air currently run).

Ok, pics are ready for the intake system...http://img100.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img100&image=ga0121jd.jpghttp://img100.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img100&image=ga0102ef.jpghttp://img100.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img100&image=ga0115rg.jpghttp://img100.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img100&image=ga0147dy.jpghttp://img100.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img100&image=ga0123ri.jpghttp://img100.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img100&image=ga0133oh.jpg
Unfortunately, my wife appears to have a fetish with parking the car right up as close to a curb as she can (you know, those people who only know to put the car in park after they hit the front tires against the curb, grrrrrrr!).

WTF?!
http://img85.exs.cx/gal.php?g=ga0131wc.jpg
Maybe this will work?

Ok that did work. Kinda. As you can tell by the front shot, my totally smashed my little scoop for the ram air on a curb, the scary part is is that the scoop isn't even the lowest part on the car!, I wonder what else she trashed?

Oh yeah :D, one more thing....I'm getting a header next week and high flow cat:D

LoL that sucks about the curb incident - but your setup looks pretty sweet from your pics. Nice work :) - let us know how the header and cat work for ya.

Man i like that, i never thought of just cutting the stock resinator or whatever it is just above the tb. Looks good i must say. Did you just cut it and then epoxy the hoses into it or what did you do? Im just curious for some ideas to get a better intake on my car.

Basically, yeah. It was real cheap to do. It's in the "prototype/guinea pig" stage. I've tried a few different setups, but so far I like this one best. I took the stock air box, which is wedge shaped and cut it and heated so I could flatten it into a 3" deep regular box. Then I cut the top off the filter cover so I would be left with just a ring that would hold the filter in place. This is my basic airbox which you see bolted infront of the rad. Then I put three ports in behind it which is where the three tubes come out then go under the rad and up to the throttle body. Then I chopped the stock silencer (the box that sits on top of the TB) and glued the three hose into it as seen in the pick. I also had to reinstall one of the vacuum lines (the smaller hose on top of the TB in the pics). I'm only using hot glue at the moment so I can still make changes, once I'm happy I will fabricate better replacements for the whole thing.

I'm planning on installing a 77mm LS1 TB, or two stock TB to a custom manifold, but I'm not sure yet, so it's still a work in progress. I made a new front bumperpiece, which isn't done yet to go with it. Here is the pic for it, I don't have any recent ones of it yet, but I have improved on it. All that's left is smoothing it out and paint. And when I put the header and exhaust on she should boot pretty good!

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=37818&password=&sort=1&size=medium&cat=998&page=1

Thats awesome..how much modifications do you need to do to use a LS1 TB? Does that setup give you any noticible lower end?

As far as the LS1 goes, I won't really know until I physically have one in my hands. I do know that the intake port on my manifold is larger than my stock throttle body though, so I think all I'll need to do is fabricate an adapter for the bigger TB. Worse comes to worse I will bore the port a little bit larger.

The bottom end improved a fair bit. The top end really improved especially when I hold 2nd gear and hammer it. My best setup so far, I can't wait to add the new header and high flow cat...HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE. She's really going to move than.

My buddy and I went to a long country stretch down by my place with my GA (4dr SE 2.4L, auto) and his Civic (2dr manual). From a standing start he launches about a half car length lead off the line and by the time I hit 2nd I'm completly ahead of him then gone. I'm very confident that at this point I can fight off a V6GA (stock of course). Once the header goes on I'll be laughing......When we start at cruising speeds his car is no match.

Thats awesome...im gunna make a set-up like that soon...but right now im concentrating on my interior, i pulled the carpet up...for many reasons (to get at SDM, smell :mad:, other reasons) and when i got under there, all my sound proofing substance was soaked....like one part of it was even gbrown and green from mildew...so right now im working on cleaning the interior...and while i got the parts out im gunna do some customizing....but i thank you for the ideas with the intake, of course im not gunna steal it, but i like the idea, and im gunna come up with something similar on my 96 2.4

I don't mind people using my engine tricks/tips because that's what will allow us to continue eating up the competition. lol. These little engines have tons of potential, and the more ideas people toss around the more power we can get out of them.


Marc