vw jetta cranking too long with warm engine

Could you please give me advice?I have a problem with my '96 VW Jetta Gl (4cyl,2.0 manual). Just a couple of weeks ago I had a complete tune-up and timing belt change done on my car. Since then I experienced a problem that happens more often now. In the morning it starts without a problem no matter how bad the weather is. Then after driving it for a while and I turn it off, its almost impossible to turn it back on without letting it rest for a longer time. The engine cranks but its cranking for a long time before fires up and even when it does fire up it has almost no power.I have to push the gas for it to "wake up" so it won't just stop after starting. If I let it rest for a while then its easier to start it but when it starts the rpm shoots up like I started to car with my foot left on the gas, up to like 3000rpm. When I start it in the morning after a long night of rest then I have absolutely no problem with it. I feel like it has to do something with the recent tune up, maybe the ignition timing is retarded.
Thank you very much

sounds like a vapor lock issue.
have you checked your fuel pump relay?

If the ignition was retarded the check light would come on.

Did you have the fuel filter replaced?

Coil packs were a problem on these alot and can cause extended crank.

Thank you both for the advices. I didn't check the relay yet and also I didn't check anything fuel related on my car yet. I thought that the problem mite have to do with something either the tune-up or belt. I need to get it scanned now:( the problem is much worse now. The check engine light is on for a long time but it had to do with the cat. converter and whatever caused damages in it. So I need to get that cleared too.

Unfortunately i have no other options but to get it in a shop. But your advices helped a lot thank you very much!!!

If the ignition was retarded the check light would come on.

Did you have the fuel filter replaced?

Coil packs were a problem on these alot and can cause extended crank.

The air filter was replaced. Can you please tell me more about the fuel filter? Could this be the problem?

I drove on the highway today and after 10 min the car was pulling back at times then letting go again. It was like i push the gas pedal fast and then release it fast. It was a bumpy, jerky ride, and i couldn't accelerate the way i wanted to. This is a new problem, and the old one is still not fixed. I think its related, maybe the engine wasn't getting proper amount of gas. Do you think ill be fine to drive two more days? The diagnosis with the computer will be done on tuesday
Thank you very much

You may want to replace the O2 sensor. After 10 min of running is about when the engine reaches temp and goes from warm-up open loop mode into closed loop. At that point the O2 sensor signal determines the fuel mixture indirectly. We had similar post warm-up problems with a 90's Digi-2 Jetta and a new O2 fixed it.

If it is a 3 wire o2, then a Universal or 94 Ford Escort sensor is a direct replacement at a significant savings!

Its a great idea and the tip (escort O2 sensor) is going to help me in a big way! Ill look into it when i take it to the shop to get the diagnosis done and ill look into the fuel related problems too

thank you very much

I just got my car to the shop today and they couldn't connect it to the scanner tool as they had no plug for my car:S. However, 2 of their technician looked at my car and they said the problem is the FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR and its vacuum hose. That little hose was replaced in a sec but didn't do anything however the technician said that its the regulator that causes the real problem the hose was no big deal. Thats a pretty expensive part, $600CAD so I'm just worried if thats the problem or not. (the guy seems honest he even told me not to get that expensive part try to look for maybe a used one or if he gets one in cheap he'd call).

Do you think it sounds something that could be the problem? Should I go ahead and get that changed?
Thank you!

the technician said that its the regulator that causes the real problem the hose was no big deal. Thats a pretty expensive part, $600CAD so I'm just worried if thats the problem or not. (the guy seems honest he even told me not to get that expensive part try to look for maybe a used one or if he gets one in cheap he'd call).



I might have one from a 94 2.0 here. If you can't find a cheap used one let me know I can send this to you to see if that solves the problem

Did they put a fuel pressure gauge on it?

I might have one from a 94 2.0 here. If you can't find a cheap used one let me know I can send this to you to see if that solves the problem

Thank you very much for your help I found a new one for only $85 I think he made a mistake with the pricing somehow:S. I didn't buy it yet though because I want to be sure that this is the problem.

Did they put a fuel pressure gauge on it?

They did not put the gauge on it. The vaccuum hose (I belive) was visibly gone (had a whole on it) and I guess its the fuel pressure gauge since the hose was conected to it. They fixed the hose which did not do anyhing. During the visual ispection they did not find anything else except that the spark plugs were not installed by a professional and its area wasn't clean. (but my problem happened before that so its not the spark plug)

He said its not the timing, the belt was installed properly and he checked the timing which was not retarded. He said its not the fuel pump or fuel pump relay because the car wouldn't work at all if it was that. Now Im really confused as the car was not scanned by a diagnostic tool.

Do you think its the fuel pressure regulator as they assumed? Im so scared to get it fixed because I feel something is not right.
Thank you very much

If there is no fuel coming out of the vacuum line portion then the regulator shouldnt be bad. The diag connector is under the radio on the right side of the center console. There is a little cap that comes off.

If there is no fuel coming out of the vacuum line portion then the regulator shouldnt be bad. The diag connector is under the radio on the right side of the center console. There is a little cap that comes off.

Thank you for your reply. When I looked at the hose I saw no fuel at the moment. They said it was the regulator:S. I know where the connector on the car is but they couldn't find that tip that fits on the scanner tool itself(that looks like a printer's plug).

I never ever waited this long to get my car fixed but with this problem Im so confused. My guesses were a retarded timing or fuel pump and it seems im way off. I don't want them to try to put extra unnecceseary expenses on me (plus its extremely expensive right now).

It (prolonged cranking wen hot) could be caused by the fuel pressure regulator if it's not holding pressure after shutdown, but that needs to be determined with a pressure gauge. The car can be scanned with any standard OBD-II tool, Autozone & Advance Auto Parts even do it for free. It sounds like the shop you go to is doing alot of guessing & doesn't have the proper equipment to do the work correctly....

It (prolonged cranking wen hot) could be caused by the fuel pressure regulator if it's not holding pressure after shutdown, but that needs to be determined with a pressure gauge. The car can be scanned with any standard OBD-II tool, Autozone & Advance Auto Parts even do it for free. It sounds like the shop you go to is doing alot of guessing & doesn't have the proper equipment to do the work correctly....

You are absolutely right they aren't good and even though they have very cheap (sometimes free) prices I won't go to them anymore. They seemed unprofessional and thank god I didn't allow them to put the regulator in my car without proper diagnosis for over $600. They were good to replace the belt (extremely cheap) and then to check the timing for free but thats it unfortunately.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to afford any other places, I called around and it cost so much. But now Im going to put money together just to go to a quality shop. Until then Im left with guesses about what could be wrong with my car:(. The closest so far is the fuel pressure regulator. But the hose wasn't leaking gas as it was described earlier so I am very confused right now.

thank you very much for the advice

I am having a similar problem in my car. After the engine gets to operating temp, it will just shut off and takes almost an hour for me to crank it up again. I took it to the shop and they said that I needed a new ECM and throttle body (they were going to charge $1300). I found the parts used and replaced them. I still have the exact same problem. I've replaced the ECM twice, so I'm pretty sure that the probability of all 3 ECMs having the same problem is too small. Today, after the second ECM replacement, I let the car idle until it reached operating temp and acted fine. I also revved the engine with no problems. I was going to take it for a test drive and as soon as I put it into reverse and started backing up, it died. I have no idea what the problem is and need help. Thanks in advance.

I am having a similar problem in my car. After the engine gets to operating temp, it will just shut off and takes almost an hour for me to crank it up again. I took it to the shop and they said that I needed a new ECM and throttle body (they were going to charge $1300). I found the parts used and replaced them. I still have the exact same problem. I've replaced the ECM twice, so I'm pretty sure that the probability of all 3 ECMs having the same problem is too small. Today, after the second ECM replacement, I let the car idle until it reached operating temp and acted fine. I also revved the engine with no problems. I was going to take it for a test drive and as soon as I put it into reverse and started backing up, it died. I have no idea what the problem is and need help. Thanks in advance.

Sorry to hear about your car. Your problem is a little different then mine because mine doesn't take an hour to start again and also it doesn't die once Im able to start it. It just cranks really bad and long with warm engine and I have to push down the gas if I start just a minute after I shut off or it acts like it will die. If it rested like 10 minutes then it will start ok but the rpm shoots up like crazy. Like I start the car while my foot is pushing the gas all the way down.

But there is a possibility it mite be a similar problem anyways. Unfortunately I still dont know whats going on with my car i cant afford to take it yet. I got guesses like fuel pressure regulator, timing marks, relay, fuel pump, coil, and mostly fuel related problems. Since your car actually dies and you won't be able to start it either maybe its the fuel pump because I was told that it mite work to start the car but once the pump dies so will the car. But Im sure a mechanic would have known if it was a fuel pump after looking at it. So I wish I could help but Im still guessing on my car too. As soon as I have money ill take it to a diagnostic and have it repaired and ill post the problem here for you in case your car won't be fixed by then.

Thanks, I'd appreciate it. Once I get mine running, I'll do the same. I just went out and bought a 2002 TrailBlazer today. I can't keep my wife without a car any longer. If anyone is interested in a Jetta and can get it fixed, I'm selling.... :)

Thanks, I'd appreciate it. Once I get mine running, I'll do the same. I just went out and bought a 2002 TrailBlazer today. I can't keep my wife without a car any longer. If anyone is interested in a Jetta and can get it fixed, I'm selling.... :)


Thank you too:). Maybe I should buy your jetta and create a good and functional one out of the two! Good luck with your new truck and have lots of fun during the winter with 4X4!!

I just remembered that my sister has a Geo Tracker that had similar problems as your jetta's. It died after a while even while she was driving and it took a while to start it again. But the difference in her car was that the check engine light came on, which faded after she accelerated:S. Also it did not die every time. I thought it was the alternator and someone else confirmed it. But she is in the same shoes as I am she cant fix it especially not until she knows it for sure.

You should look into that in your car too. I just started to learn about cars so Im sorry for not being able to help too much yet but its just another possibility. However, its one of those parts that a mechanic should have been able to point out right away unless they lie and say something big just to get triple the money for a different problem. (I needed a new battery and a mechanic tried to tell me that I needed a new alternator...yeah ok) Also I just decided that instead of paying for a diagnosis with obd II, ill buy my own diagnostic tool which will cost just as much as one diagnosis in a service (used) and mechanics will have no choice but to tell the truth all the time.

And about the fuel pump, I knew someone who temporary fixed the pump by hitting the tank a couple of times. It didn't solve the problem but it was definitely a cheap way to diagnose it:). It should be done very gently though so parts won't break inside. (many shops dont recommend it the same way as not to hit the starter with something metallic either. People used to do that and sometimes it works but sometimes it just creates bigger problems)

Good luck and Ill let you know of any further development!

I am having a similar problem in my car. After the engine gets to operating temp, it will just shut off and takes almost an hour for me to crank it up again. I took it to the shop and they said that I needed a new ECM and throttle body (they were going to charge $1300). I found the parts used and replaced them. I still have the exact same problem. I've replaced the ECM twice, so I'm pretty sure that the probability of all 3 ECMs having the same problem is too small. Today, after the second ECM replacement, I let the car idle until it reached operating temp and acted fine. I also revved the engine with no problems. I was going to take it for a test drive and as soon as I put it into reverse and started backing up, it died. I have no idea what the problem is and need help. Thanks in advance.

trigger, what year is your jetta? there is rarely a time that a throttle body "goes bad" - its a purely mechanical device. What may go bad on it is one of the switches such as the IPS (idle position switch) WOT (wide open throttle) or if it is a newer model the TPS (throttle position sensor) which all 3 give a feedback signal to the ECU. Any of these can be tested with a cheap Radio Shack multimeter that has Ohms, Volts and Continuity settings.

Most often the failure is in a simple sensor that costs minimal compared to an ECM etc. If you plan to keep the VW - and save yourself some $ in maintenance, buy a Bentley manual (on Ebay), it will give you a complete diagnostic check for checking all the sensors. It would only take a nice sunny weekend morning to remove the connector from the ECU and run through the full check.

Some sensors have settings that need checked cold, others when warm. A basic premise to remember is that the engine runs "closed loop" meaning a fixed fuel mixture and ignition timing, until it gets warmed up. The CTS (coolant temp sensor) tells the ECU the engine is warm - the ECU then goes into "open loop" which means the oxygen sensor data now controls the fuel mixture, combined with it, the knock sensor controls the timing. That is a very simple explanation.

Often problems that come up in "open loop" are related to a bad oxygen sensor.

Regarding thhe engine dying when you put it in gear - is this an automatic? have you checked the transmission fluid?

No, it's a '97 standard, and the tranny was replaced about 20K miles ago. Someone mentioned that it could be a loose wire or the distributer. I'm not really sure about the loose wire thing. I can rev the engine and it'll move most parts under the hood, why would it be any different when I start to move? Also, I can drive the car until it reaches operating temp. and then it just shuts off. I would have noticed if I had a bad spark plug because I'd only be running off 3 cyl, and I'd feel that. Any clues?

No, it's a '97 standard, and the tranny was replaced about 20K miles ago. Someone mentioned that it could be a loose wire or the distributer. I'm not really sure about the loose wire thing. I can rev the engine and it'll move most parts under the hood, why would it be any different when I start to move? Also, I can drive the car until it reaches operating temp. and then it just shuts off. I would have noticed if I had a bad spark plug because I'd only be running off 3 cyl, and I'd feel that. Any clues?

My car started getting weird after getting the belt replaced but just before that (like a week) I got a complete tune up too. I got wires and distributer changed. I thought it had to do something with the belt so i asked the guy and he said the timing marks are fine its not belt related. Then I asked if it could be the first mechanic's fault who changed the distributer and he said he hardly thinks so. It must be a new problem but the computer will comfirm it...
I just thought Ill let you know about that in case we have the same problems. It shouldn't be those things you wrote about.

My car started getting weird after getting the belt replaced but just before that (like a week) I got a complete tune up too. I got wires and distributer changed. I thought it had to do something with the belt so i asked the guy and he said the timing marks are fine its not belt related. Then I asked if it could be the first mechanic's fault who changed the distributer and he said he hardly thinks so. It must be a new problem but the computer will comfirm it...
I just thought Ill let you know about that in case we have the same problems. It shouldn't be those things you wrote about.

I just spoke to a friend of mine who thinks it may be the Mass Air Flow sensor or the O2 sensor. Does that sound like it may be something that can cause these types of issues?

No, it's a '97 standard, and the tranny was replaced about 20K miles ago. Someone mentioned that it could be a loose wire or the distributer. I'm not really sure about the loose wire thing. I can rev the engine and it'll move most parts under the hood, why would it be any different when I start to move? Also, I can drive the car until it reaches operating temp. and then it just shuts off. I would have noticed if I had a bad spark plug because I'd only be running off 3 cyl, and I'd feel that. Any clues?

There is usually a big difference between revving an engine and putting it in gear.... If you have a soft/bad motor mount you'll never notice it revving the motor - but it may lift up high enough to hit the hood when you put it in gear and accellerate. Have someone put it in gear (with their foot on the brake) while you watch - and then gently lift the clutch pedal till it almost stalls. If you see major movement - then a bad mount can cause wires to flex and have temporary disconnection.

Why was the distributor changed? I can see a hall sensor replacement, but an 8v distributor (again) rarely goes "bad". I guess this sends some feelings of lack of confidence in your mechanic....

I had problems with O2 sensors before on a new Explorer (1 out of 4 was gone) and on older cars too and I never had the experience that you were having so in my opinon that rules it out. Unless the symptoms are different on cars that has way less sensor like your Jetta. Did you get it scanned with OBDII? When the O2 sensor is gone the check engine light comes up.

Why was the distributor changed? I can see a hall sensor replacement, but an 8v distributor (again) rarely goes "bad". I guess this sends some feelings of lack of confidence in your mechanic....[/QUOTE]

I made a mistake. It was only the cap that was replaced by a different mechanic. I was rushing with the anwers so much that I messed it up Im sorry. But you are right both mechanics that I went to were bad and I do not feel confident in them. Especially that they try to guess whats wrong with my car and by the time I request a proper OBD scanning to be sure before I buy an expensive part, magically it doesn't fit on a vw anymore or someone else JUST took it somewhere else so they don't have it... (they were the only ones who would have done it for free...well no wonder:S). They make me so angry!

the Jetta does have a lot less sensors. You can use a Ford Escort sensor for bout $38 from Advance Auto instead of the $140 VW one. Same sensor but you will have to splice the wires in. Most likely splicing the wires will be the least of the problem - getting the old o2 out is usually no fun.

I'm to my wits end with this thing. I got the check engine light to go off somehow. I let it get to operating temp and took it on a test drive. It went about 15 miles and then died. I tried to start it again and it took about a half hour (which is normal since this problem started). I'm going to try to see if there is spark next time it stops. I know there's spark when it's cold, but don't know if I lose spark when it's hot. Someone just said that it could be the distributor losing contact. So, I've got it narrowed to 3 possibilites right now, O2 sensor, MAF sensor, or the distributor. Which would ya'll start with? Any help is appreciated.

I understand how frustrating your situation is trust me I can't take this anymore either. Its going on for weeks for me but at least I can still do every day chores with my car....for now...

Your check engine light went out on its own?The engine light will disappear after 40 warm up and cool down cycle if the problem is fixed and 80 if the problem is not fixed.But after 80 it will come back. Mine was gone too then it came back and didn't disappear anymore so now I need tool to reset it. If you disconnected the battery and left it for like 15 min it could also cause the light to disappear. Other then that you would need the diagnostic machine to erase the code and have the light removed.I think that you should definitely take your car to a diagnostic centre because if the O2 or MAF sensor is gone the tool will tell you that. (I don't know about the distributor). If I had $100 then another couple hundred to fix it, I would too:(

I'm not sure if Jettas have this but if they do maybe you should consider a faulty automatic shutdown relay(ASD). It powers the ignition coil and it will not supply voltage to the coil unless the engine is cranking and the computer senses a crankshaft sensor signal.

Also does your car stall only at left turns or pretty much all the times?
And one more thing, it mite be something much simpler like the spark plug wires because if they are routed too closely to the signal wire from a MAF sensor the induced signal from the ignition wire would create a false MAF signal to the computer.

I'm such an A2 guy - I keep forgetting you guys have OBD - so why dont you do a fault code readout???

If you dont have aBentley I can dig mine up & give you the codes etc.

I haven't been able to get the car to AutoZone to get the fault code since I can't keep it running. I did take it there the other week and it came up as "p1240: Cyl.4-Fuel Inj.Circ. Open Circ." I don't see how this could be the problem and I had a computer that wasn't the same part number as the one I took out (I have that fixed now) The car doesn't care if I'm turning or not, it'll just shut down.

p1240 indicates an open circuit on #4 injector & would cause a miss, not quitting. Someone may have pulled the injector plug with the engine on or cranking & set that code. Have you tried the ECM power supply relay (position #3, top row third from left)? It's often a cause of symptoms like you describe & fairly cheap.

Trigger01, I just heard a story that was almost 100% similar to yours. The owner of an acura complained that the engine would start then stall shortly after and couldn't go with his car anywhere. He got it towed to a shop. Then a technician looked at it and when the engine started he depressed the accelerator slightly while the car wasn't moving and the engine continued to run without any appareent problems. His technician suspected high RVP gasoline was the problem. The fuel vaporized in the fuel rail. Enough condensed fuel was available to start the engine but the fuel injectors are designed to handle liquid fuel -not vapor- so the engine stalled.

I don't know how the weather is in your area but if you still had winter gas in your tank change it! However, its a good thing to change it either way! If you didn't use it for a while the gas mite be bad, if the weather is warm or warmed up suddenly can cause vapor lock issue. Vapor lock is caused by bubbles that form in the fuel and bubbles can be caused by heat or by sharp blends too.

So either way Im standing by what I thought originally your car has fuel related problem in my opinion that mite has a way cheaper solution then some technician say. Like changing the gas in your car.

I really hope it won't be a bigger problem and you can use your car soon:)!

p1240 indicates an open circuit on #4 injector & would cause a miss, not quitting. Someone may have pulled the injector plug with the engine on or cranking & set that code. Have you tried the ECM power supply relay (position #3, top row third from left)? It's often a cause of symptoms like you describe & fairly cheap.
I'm sorry, but what does this relate to? I don't know what position 3, top row third from left is. Is it the fuse panel under the dash or something else?

if you still had winter gas in your tank change it!
I live in San Antonio, TX and I've filled the tanks several times since this started happening. It may be a fuel problem, but I'm not sure that it's a vapor problem. For some reason (I took off the distributer cap and buffed the contacts, maybe that was it), this week I was able to drive it 45 miles with no problem. The next day I take it out again and it sputtered and the check engine light came on, but it didn't die and only lasted about 1 second and then the light went off and it drove fine till I got it home, which was about 10 miles. Do you think that if it were vapor it'd do that? I'm not really familiar with that problem. I'm thinking of changing the ignition coil to see if that helps.

The fuse & relay panel is above the driver's feet. There are two rows of relays. The one I reccomend changing is the top row, third from the left. It will have a VW part # on it so you can get it from VW w/o too mch trouble & it's a cheap thing to try.

The fuse & relay panel is above the driver's feet. There are two rows of relays. The one I reccomend changing is the top row, third from the left. It will have a VW part # on it so you can get it from VW w/o too mch trouble & it's a cheap thing to try.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Here's the newest: I got the car to the dealership (after stalling about a half mile away and having to push it up a slight incline almost the whole way). They rechecked it and now they think that it is an engine speed sensor. Does this sound feasable?

Yes, but I believe it would be shutting down the ignition & you would not have spark.

Yes, but I believe it would be shutting down the ignition & you would not have spark.
Thank you. I'll let you know.

I live in San Antonio, TX and I've filled the tanks several times since this started happening. It may be a fuel problem, but I'm not sure that it's a vapor problem. For some reason (I took off the distributer cap and buffed the contacts, maybe that was it), this week I was able to drive it 45 miles with no problem. The next day I take it out again and it sputtered and the check engine light came on, but it didn't die and only lasted about 1 second and then the light went off and it drove fine till I got it home, which was about 10 miles. Do you think that if it were vapor it'd do that? I'm not really familiar with that problem. I'm thinking of changing the ignition coil to see if that helps.[/QUOTE]

The only things I know about the vapor lock is what I wrote. I do think its a possibility that this could be the problem because if you live at a warm place the gas can evaporate faster and it can get into places where liquid gas should go. I wish I could be a further help about that but if I find anything else out about that ill let you know.

I am very curious about the ignition coil because I was suggested to do that too. ( refer to i think page 1 of this thread) But i have little doubts as I had a tune up and I think they might have changed that and the problem did not start then or before.

sorry my last reply is not too visible because it got mixed with yours but its still there:)

I found the problem, it was the engine speed sensor. Cost $140 installed and the problem was fixed. Thanks for your suggestions and good luck with yours...

I found the problem, it was the engine speed sensor. Cost $140 installed and the problem was fixed. Thanks for your suggestions and good luck with yours...

Thank you for posting the problem, and im glad your car is fixed. Actually i just started a new thread to update this one, because I just got my car too. And now I envy you hehe. Here are the problemSSS with my car, I scanned it.
Here are the codes that I've got:
1.) throttle actuator malfunction
2.) cam position sensor performance
3.) electronic coolent temprature circuit high
4.) main TWC efficiency
5.) long term fuel trim to lean
6.) O2 circuit

So instead of the good luck I think ill need either lots of money to fix or to buy a new car. Unless there is a miracle:)
Good luck to you too!