Sucky Fords
Turtle1217
03-08-2005, 09:55 PM
Choose one:
Civic si
Jetta GTI VR6
Integra RSX Type S
SVT Focus
Celica GTR
Certain Friends told me any import will beat any ford in anywhich category...so I have seen a thread lately with these 5 (and a WRX and 350Z thrown in for some reason) compared and am interested to see what everybody on this sight has to say
I would probably pick up an svt focus for the simple fact that it has won every comparo in every magazine I have read with it in it, it’s low price and excellent warranty; or possibly the RSX Type S with it’s 200 horses and great price tag. The celica is a nice car up to 20,000 miles when you have to rebuild the poorly engineered 6 speed, the civic si is over priced and under powered, the GTI VR6 is just overpriced. And I would willingly put a equally priced ford up against any of your rice burners, and the sad thing is about rice is you could get a mustang gt for thousands less than a 350Z and leave a Z owner eating your sucky ford dust.
Civic si
Jetta GTI VR6
Integra RSX Type S
SVT Focus
Celica GTR
Certain Friends told me any import will beat any ford in anywhich category...so I have seen a thread lately with these 5 (and a WRX and 350Z thrown in for some reason) compared and am interested to see what everybody on this sight has to say
I would probably pick up an svt focus for the simple fact that it has won every comparo in every magazine I have read with it in it, it’s low price and excellent warranty; or possibly the RSX Type S with it’s 200 horses and great price tag. The celica is a nice car up to 20,000 miles when you have to rebuild the poorly engineered 6 speed, the civic si is over priced and under powered, the GTI VR6 is just overpriced. And I would willingly put a equally priced ford up against any of your rice burners, and the sad thing is about rice is you could get a mustang gt for thousands less than a 350Z and leave a Z owner eating your sucky ford dust.
TatII
03-08-2005, 10:31 PM
what does this have to do with car comparison?
you can't compare straight line power with price. while fords give up certain things like refinement for raw power. i have mentioned in earlier in other threads that when you build a car with a set target price, you have to give up certain things for other things. so since americans mostly focus on straight line power, and american cars were designed to be mostly sold for the american market. they put the biggest engine in there with the cheapest way to get hp, everything else is really second priority.
the japanese cars are more of a global market, so they have to design cars that will satisfy the handling needs of small european roads, and handling for japanese market, yet have decent straight line ability for the u.s. market. they have to build it to be balanced in almost everyway possible.
thats my 2 cent. you can argue that all you want about going straight for the money. but the Z in my opinion is more refined, handles better. the main thing to look at in my opinion for how much more balanced the car is overall designed will be to look at its sales globally.
the Z was car of hte year on top gear magazine last year, i doubt the stang gt will ever even get near that rank world wide in australia, new zealand, japan, europe, hong kong, korea, etc etc.
you can't compare straight line power with price. while fords give up certain things like refinement for raw power. i have mentioned in earlier in other threads that when you build a car with a set target price, you have to give up certain things for other things. so since americans mostly focus on straight line power, and american cars were designed to be mostly sold for the american market. they put the biggest engine in there with the cheapest way to get hp, everything else is really second priority.
the japanese cars are more of a global market, so they have to design cars that will satisfy the handling needs of small european roads, and handling for japanese market, yet have decent straight line ability for the u.s. market. they have to build it to be balanced in almost everyway possible.
thats my 2 cent. you can argue that all you want about going straight for the money. but the Z in my opinion is more refined, handles better. the main thing to look at in my opinion for how much more balanced the car is overall designed will be to look at its sales globally.
the Z was car of hte year on top gear magazine last year, i doubt the stang gt will ever even get near that rank world wide in australia, new zealand, japan, europe, hong kong, korea, etc etc.
DinanM3_S2
03-08-2005, 10:54 PM
1) The sporty version of the Jetta is called the GLi, not the GTi. The GTi is a Golf.
2) out of those 5, I would go with either the RSX-S, or the VW GLi 1.8t (cheaper then the VR6). The RSX-S because of the luxury car interior and the i-VTec engine. Good handling for this class too. The GLi because the 1.8t w/ chip is both stronger and cheaper then a stock VR6, plus its interior is bigger then the RSX, and almost as luxurious.
3) Finally, I don't agree that Ford isn't as good as imports. The Mustang GT is argueably the best performance deal out there. I would take one over a 350z or RX8 any day. 300hp for $25,000 is amazing. Also, the Ford GT kicks the crap out of the 360 Modena, 911 Turbo, GT3, and GT2. However in other segments, Ford does struggle a little.
2) out of those 5, I would go with either the RSX-S, or the VW GLi 1.8t (cheaper then the VR6). The RSX-S because of the luxury car interior and the i-VTec engine. Good handling for this class too. The GLi because the 1.8t w/ chip is both stronger and cheaper then a stock VR6, plus its interior is bigger then the RSX, and almost as luxurious.
3) Finally, I don't agree that Ford isn't as good as imports. The Mustang GT is argueably the best performance deal out there. I would take one over a 350z or RX8 any day. 300hp for $25,000 is amazing. Also, the Ford GT kicks the crap out of the 360 Modena, 911 Turbo, GT3, and GT2. However in other segments, Ford does struggle a little.
nbw
03-09-2005, 01:51 AM
I hear the SVT Focus's handle very well. I guess I would choose it or the RSX-S.
actualy if i had the money i would go SRT4 but... :)
actualy if i had the money i would go SRT4 but... :)
Rod&Custom
03-09-2005, 09:16 AM
the Z was car of hte year on top gear magazine last year, i doubt the stang gt will ever even get near that rank world wide in australia, new zealand, japan, europe, hong kong, korea, etc etc.
Too bad the Z will never have the following or history of the Ford Mustang which sold over 100,000 cars in it's first 90 days in '64, and 160,000 by the end of that half year. Also, the Stang has and extremely succesful Trans Am racing history. If you don't know, Trans Am racing is road racing, and has nothing to do with straight line racing. Needless to say, I would go with a Ford any day.
Too bad the Z will never have the following or history of the Ford Mustang which sold over 100,000 cars in it's first 90 days in '64, and 160,000 by the end of that half year. Also, the Stang has and extremely succesful Trans Am racing history. If you don't know, Trans Am racing is road racing, and has nothing to do with straight line racing. Needless to say, I would go with a Ford any day.
Turtle1217
03-09-2005, 02:00 PM
I watched the first race of Trans Am last week where the mustangs finished 1, 2 behind a couple of porches i believe. No arguing with the handling of the stang in the twisties, although those porches did look pretty mean too.
Jimster
03-09-2005, 05:29 PM
Too bad the Z will never have the following or history of the Ford Mustang which sold over 100,000 cars in it's first 90 days in '64, and 160,000 by the end of that half year. Also, the Stang has and extremely succesful Trans Am racing history. If you don't know, Trans Am racing is road racing, and has nothing to do with straight line racing. Needless to say, I would go with a Ford any day.
You uhhhh.... Do KNOW the history behind the Nissan Z Car don't you?
The name Datsun 240Z ring any bells? Try finding a decent 240Z for cheap these days. You simply won't because the following is simply huge.
Though much like the Mustang the Z got worse with age. The 260Z was nowhere near as good as the 240, the 280ZX was crap, the Z31 300ZX was the lowest of lows and then it got better with the 1989 Z32 300ZX and we now have the pretty damn good 350Z.
The Mustang went from good to bad to worse to good again in the same way that the Z did.
A little history lesson for you.
You uhhhh.... Do KNOW the history behind the Nissan Z Car don't you?
The name Datsun 240Z ring any bells? Try finding a decent 240Z for cheap these days. You simply won't because the following is simply huge.
Though much like the Mustang the Z got worse with age. The 260Z was nowhere near as good as the 240, the 280ZX was crap, the Z31 300ZX was the lowest of lows and then it got better with the 1989 Z32 300ZX and we now have the pretty damn good 350Z.
The Mustang went from good to bad to worse to good again in the same way that the Z did.
A little history lesson for you.
Rod&Custom
03-09-2005, 06:53 PM
Definitely the Z nameplate has a history, because even I have heard of it, and I am all for the American end of vehicles. I am just saying that I don't think that anything could ever match the excitement that Ford made when the Mustang was introduced in '64. I doubt that it will ever be matched. Also, I hate the arguement of "muscle cars can't turn", and Mustangs are classified in with that. The pony cars, Mustang, Camaro, and Firebird, were good at road racing, and Mustang and Camaro went on to rule the Trans Am Racing series. Firebird didn't compete in that series, even though there top model was the Trans Am Firebird. This was due to the 400 ci small block, and the TA series only accepted motors that were 5.0l and under. Sorry, just wanted to prove that Mustangs don't just drag race, and actually helped bring road racing to the forefront. Sorry for the rant.
kman10587
03-09-2005, 07:04 PM
Rod&Custom: It's all good, and I completely agree with you, I hate it when people assume that muscle cars can only drag race. And you're right, I doubt the Z will ever match the "hype" of the Mustang when it first came out. That said, it still has a very large following, plenty of aftermarket support, an almost instantly recognizable name, and impressive bang-for-buck. I have always considered the Z to be Japan's Mustang: a cheap and fast RWD coupe that really iconifies that country's sports car scene.
DinanM3_S2
03-09-2005, 08:49 PM
I watched the first race of Trans Am last week where the mustangs finished 1, 2 behind a couple of porches i believe. No arguing with the handling of the stang in the twisties, although those porches did look pretty mean too.
porch?
http://www.cornellinn.com/porch.jpg
porch?
http://www.cornellinn.com/porch.jpg
SuperHighOutput
03-10-2005, 12:30 PM
IMO the Focus is the best small car on the market.
MexSiR
03-10-2005, 06:07 PM
Jimster
03-10-2005, 09:49 PM
IMO the Focus is the best small car on the market.
not really any more. It once was, but even the new one is left behind by the new Opel Astra and Mk V Volkswagen Golf. The car handles brilliantly, but any engine short of the one in the ST170 lacks fizz.
not really any more. It once was, but even the new one is left behind by the new Opel Astra and Mk V Volkswagen Golf. The car handles brilliantly, but any engine short of the one in the ST170 lacks fizz.
SuperHighOutput
03-10-2005, 11:41 PM
not really any more. It once was, but even the new one is left behind by the new Opel Astra and Mk V Volkswagen Golf. The car handles brilliantly, but any engine short of the one in the ST170 lacks fizz.
Let me rephrase my statement, the Focus is the best small car on the market in the US. The 2.3 Duratec is a good little motor.
Let me rephrase my statement, the Focus is the best small car on the market in the US. The 2.3 Duratec is a good little motor.
mason_RsX
03-11-2005, 11:34 AM
I would say the the best small car on the market would be the Mazda3, which is closely related to the focus. IMO it looks better inside and out, the Mazda designed 161hp 2.3L is better than the Duratec (I believe its mazda designed, not 100%) and its a nice step up on the amazingly fun to drive Protege
speed_star
03-11-2005, 05:52 PM
Isn't it Celica GTS not GTR? I would take an SVT Focus or the Celica GTS over the other cars on that list.
YukiHime
03-11-2005, 08:15 PM
Where is the SE-R?
FordJunky
03-12-2005, 12:39 AM
focus or type s... both are sweet.
and in response to the earlier statements being made about racing heritage, both the mustang and z cars are two of the most well known heritage cars EVER. that being said i dont think the z car can compete with the mustang when it comes to fan base. the mustang is the one car foreigners actually show respect to and usually enjoy as much as americans (im referring to classics of course) i was watchin a tv show on the best cars ever built (obviously opinionated) on speed channel, among these cars were bentleys, classic jags, land rovers, ferraris and mustangs... that bein said i would gladly take a mustang or a 350 anyday of the week.
and in response to the earlier statements being made about racing heritage, both the mustang and z cars are two of the most well known heritage cars EVER. that being said i dont think the z car can compete with the mustang when it comes to fan base. the mustang is the one car foreigners actually show respect to and usually enjoy as much as americans (im referring to classics of course) i was watchin a tv show on the best cars ever built (obviously opinionated) on speed channel, among these cars were bentleys, classic jags, land rovers, ferraris and mustangs... that bein said i would gladly take a mustang or a 350 anyday of the week.
YukiHime
03-13-2005, 01:14 PM
I would say the the best small car on the market would be the Mazda3, which is closely related to the focus. IMO it looks better inside and out, the Mazda designed 161hp 2.3L is better than the Duratec (I believe its mazda designed, not 100%) and its a nice step up on the amazingly fun to drive Protege
And some sweet facts about this car is that while the other Economy Compact cars(read under 20 grand) can't even option for HID or GPS, they can be optioned for the Mazda3...And full-optioned under 23 grand.
And some sweet facts about this car is that while the other Economy Compact cars(read under 20 grand) can't even option for HID or GPS, they can be optioned for the Mazda3...And full-optioned under 23 grand.
Turtle1217
03-14-2005, 04:34 PM
And some sweet facts about this car is that while the other Economy Compact cars(read under 20 grand) can't even option for HID or GPS, they can be optioned for the Mazda3...And full-optioned under 23 grand.
All compact cars listed here you can opt for hid lights if you choose to pay extra, and some (Not all) do have gps options from the dealer.
All compact cars listed here you can opt for hid lights if you choose to pay extra, and some (Not all) do have gps options from the dealer.
NerveAgent
03-20-2005, 05:59 AM
I like this http://freshalloy.com/site/cars/nissan/2005/nsc-hatch/home.shtml
and this
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/nissan_azeal.asp
more than any of the cars you mentioned.
and this
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/nissan_azeal.asp
more than any of the cars you mentioned.
emokid15
03-20-2005, 12:04 PM
yeah i would pick from the Focus SVT and the RSX Type S. ill be happy with one of them.
drunken monkey
03-20-2005, 12:53 PM
about the 100,000 mustangs sold in the first 90 days.....
weren't a whole bunch of them sold to a car rental company, hence making up the huge numbers sold so early on?
weren't a whole bunch of them sold to a car rental company, hence making up the huge numbers sold so early on?
Muscletang
03-20-2005, 07:57 PM
about the 100,000 mustangs sold in the first 90 days.....
weren't a whole bunch of them sold to a car rental company, hence making up the huge numbers sold so early on?
No, most of the sales went to people. There were probably some that went to rental companies but it was a huge number. I think 20,000 were sold alone on the day it was revealed at the world's fair.
weren't a whole bunch of them sold to a car rental company, hence making up the huge numbers sold so early on?
No, most of the sales went to people. There were probably some that went to rental companies but it was a huge number. I think 20,000 were sold alone on the day it was revealed at the world's fair.
drunken monkey
03-21-2005, 06:10 PM
well i ask cos i remember something about a lot of people renting them and not many getting back to the car hire places in one piece.....
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