Cams

Whats a good performance cam that can handle a sc/n setup on a 00 GT stang?

ty

Whats a good performance cam that can handle a sc/n setup on a 00 GT stang?

ty


Depends on the type of blower your getting.

I went with the Comp Cams 102600 XE270AH which has a power range between 1800rpms-5800rpms. I chose that because that's in the rpm range that I am constantly in, plus I also have gear installed and my car is a daily driver. I am also going to have a Kenne Bell blower and stroke my engine to 5.0L's.

Comp cams has another set that has the power range from 2200rpms-6200rpms. I felt that the rpms was a little too high for a daily driver. If your going to use your car as a race car only, then the cams 102700 XE278AH is for you.

Comp cams has a really mild set that has a power range from 1400rpms-5400 rpms. It will give a little more umph down low off the line. I don't think you will need to get a dyno tune with it either. I like the fact that it's power comes on at 1400rpms, but I hate the fact that it peaks at 5400rpms. It's not a good match for me due to the fact that I have done other mods that reduce the amount of rational mass, thus allowing my engine to build rpms much more quickly than normal. I easly rev into the 6400rpm range.

a KB and a future stroker kit is a great reason to go BIG on cams, because you'll have more than enough low end to keep you satisfied.

a KB and a future stroker kit is a great reason to go BIG on cams, because you'll have more than enough low end to keep you satisfied.


:nono:............

For a daily street driven car, you don't want to go with BIG cams. This is not a 1/4mile race car. The big cams has the operating range of 2200rpms-6200rpms which is great for 1/4mile racing. On top of that you will definately not pass smog, and you WILL need a dyno tune to adjust the idle in order to prevent the engine from stumbling.

The MILD cam is as big as you want, which has the rpm range of 1800rpms-5800rpms. It does have a noticle idle, and it is usable for the streets and you will pass smog with it too. It's good for a daily driver, and the power comes on just below the crusing Rpm at 1800 rpms which is about 200 rpms lower than what most people drive in. Most people tend to drive around 2000-2600rpms in 4th or 5th gear. This is also a good set of cams for auto-cross due to the torque curve produced by the cams.

Also, the CAM's will determine your torque as well as your horse power. Displacement helps, but the cams will have a bigger effect over all.

I would go with the higher revving cam myself, because 6200rpms is not a lot for that short of a stroke.

Do you guys have the specs? What are the heads flowing?

what does head flowing refer to..?

what does head flowing refer to..?

CFM at a given lift.

http://www.supermotors.org/resources/calculators/index.php#cfm_calculation

Says 406.1 CFM, stock. I'll be keeping the same displacement though. Just changing internals and adding a blower/n.

http://www.supermotors.org/resources/calculators/index.php#cfm_calculation

Says 406.1 CFM, stock. I'll be keeping the same displacement though. Just changing internals and adding a blower/n.

Stock head, do you know what it flows?

What is a blower/n ?

I'm not sure.

blower/n = turbo + nitrous

I'm not sure.

blower/n = turbo + nitrous

4v heads? 2V heads?

I am too lazy to look the cam specs, do the leg work of the cams that were mentioned and then we can have a discussion.


When you post something, please post what you know. And the more info, the better.

2v, the cam specs of the first one mentioned by silverstang with the power range between 1800-5800 are:

Duration @ .050 - 234 (intake) / 238 (exhaust)
Advertised Duration - 270 (intake) / 274 (exhaust)
Valve Lift @ 1.825:1 ratio - .550 (in/ex)
Lobe seperation angle - 113 degrees (in/ex)

The second cam was the XE278AH, power range between 2200-6200 specs:

Duration @ .050 - 242 (intake) / 246 (exhaust)
Advertised Duration - 278 (intake) / 282 (exhaust)
Valve Lift @ 1.825:1 ratio - .550 (in/ex)
Lobe seperation angle - 113 degrees (in/ex)

2v, the cam specs of the first one mentioned by silverstang with the power range between 1800-5800 are:

Duration @ .050 - 234 (intake) / 238 (exhaust)
Advertised Duration - 270 (intake) / 274 (exhaust)
Valve Lift @ 1.825:1 ratio - .550 (in/ex)
Lobe seperation angle - 113 degrees (in/ex)

The second cam was the XE278AH, power range between 2200-6200 specs:

Duration @ .050 - 242 (intake) / 246 (exhaust)
Advertised Duration - 278 (intake) / 282 (exhaust)
Valve Lift @ 1.825:1 ratio - .550 (in/ex)
Lobe seperation angle - 113 degrees (in/ex)


Damn, those have quick ramps. I can't believe that the power band is that low, with that duration. I would take the first one, the one silver suggested. It has some very good specs.

What else are your plans for the engine?

eventually, reverse novi centrif. blower, new fuel pump, JE pistons, manley rods, MAC short headers, catback, catted x-pipe, street perf. clutch from hays, TKO 600 tranny, 4.10 gears, CAI, valves/springs/covers, nx nitrous

eventually :P

Wrong gears, 3.73

Any particular reasons beyond personal preference?

Any particular reasons beyond personal preference?

That engine combo, with those gears. You will be fighting for traction. Its not a personal preference, it depends on the engine set-up.

With my car I am starting out with 4.11, but dropping it down with a taller tyre to around 3.6, I might even go 3.4.

Torque is your friend, and you should have plenty.

With 4.11, that pretty much makes it a 1/4 miler. Have you looked into what you will be trapping with the TKO, and those gears, and see were your power band is going to be?

Here is a good calculator

http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/calc.htm

Havn't checked the powerband. I should be at 450 with the blower and a 125 shot of nitrous will put me at 575.

3500lbs & 560rwhp puts me at a 127mph trap.

Havn't checked the powerband. I should be at 450 with the blower and a 125 shot of nitrous will put me at 575.

3500lbs & 560rwhp puts me at a 127mph trap.

Only if your car is set up right. :D

You'll have to shift at 6800 for that mph, your not set up for that.

That tranny has a 5th gear of .64 right?

You will not pull those times with that set up, unless your going forged, and you get the bigger cam.


Your shift point will be?

It should all be forged, the tolerances on the upgraded internals should be ~700HP, tranny torque max @ 600ft/lb

Not sure of shift point yet

Yeah. 5spd .64 OD

http://mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=TR5008+01&Category=Drivetrain&subCategory=Transmissions&CatKey=74-01

What else wound I need to upgrade/change?

It should all be forged, the tolerances on the upgraded internals should be ~700HP, tranny torque max @ 600ft/lb

Not sure of shift point yet

Yeah. 5spd .64 OD

http://mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=TR5008+01&Category=Drivetrain&subCategory=Transmissions&CatKey=74-01

If you are going to shift at 6800, the second cam will be better, but damn that is a pretty big cam.

3.73 would put you around 6200rpms, which is where I would want to be, but if your happy with the 4.11s, its your call.

Plus you would get a little better milage out fo the 3.73s. Hell, I would go 3.55 in your case, but that is just me.

So first cam @ 6200, or second @ 6800?

I'll likely go with the 3.73's

So first cam @ 6200, or second @ 6800?

I'll likely go with the 3.73's


Look, do the math.

Don't just look at the numbers, play with the numbers.

Number do not lie, well unless your a politician.

If your going with a Novi, I think you would want a higher power band, over KB. I would go 3.73 with the bigger cam, if I was setting up your car.

There are different trains of thought when it comes to this. I am a novice, with a little bit of knowledge. Silver knows these engine better than I do, so let get his in put.

mmk

thanks for all the help

:nono:............

For a daily street driven car, you don't want to go with BIG cams. This is not a 1/4mile race car. The big cams has the operating range of 2200rpms-6200rpms which is great for 1/4mile racing. On top of that you will definately not pass smog, and you WILL need a dyno tune to adjust the idle in order to prevent the engine from stumbling.

A big cam is pretty streetable. I do it everyday with my 5.0. course thats a 50. my cam has a 3500-6500 RPM range and i dont really hit the range and it runs pretty strong under 3500. i just wouldnt take it up all the time unless u have a built bottom end. which i dont. (ouch) i have 3.08 in the rear and a T5 world class and except 4 it being carbed it would get decent mileage. I just dont know about the emissions thing cause i dont have to. of course a big cam on a street car does kinda sound like overkill. but i like overkill.

By golly, it's a miracle you can even drive that car on the street with that huge X cam!

A big cam is pretty streetable. I do it everyday with my 5.0. course thats a 50. my cam has a 3500-6500 RPM range and i dont really hit the range and it runs pretty strong under 3500. i just wouldnt take it up all the time unless u have a built bottom end. which i dont. (ouch) i have 3.08 in the rear and a T5 world class and except 4 it being carbed it would get decent mileage. I just dont know about the emissions thing cause i dont have to. of course a big cam on a street car does kinda sound like overkill. but i like overkill.

X303 is no where near as big as these cams that Silver posted.

That is why I am scratching my head on the power band issue.

Disclaimer. My opinions and questions are not meant to offend anyone but to encourage a healthy discussion. DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE TO ANYTHING I SAY HERE.


now that I got the formalities out of the way.........


Lets break this down.......

A big cam is pretty streetable. I do it everyday with my 5.0.

We are talking about a modular engine, not a push rod. These modulars kick the crap out of push rods when it comes to building rpms. The modulars have alot more in common with crotch rockets than they do with traditional push rod engines. They respond much differently to cams than a slow revving pushrod. So yes, a X303 cam in a push rod that struggles to hit 5500-6000rpms will be streetable. On top of that, your wimpy 3.08 gearing also helps keep you down in rpms and is more in line with your power curve.


my cam has a 3500-6500 RPM range and i dont really hit the range and it runs pretty strong under 3500. i just wouldnt take it up all the time unless u have a built bottom end. which i dont.

And you just pointed out the other difference....... these modulars easly hit 6000-7000 rpms, without loosing the bottom end. I constantly bump my rev limiter which has been adjusted from 6200rpms to 6800rpms. To do 6800rpms in a push rod all the time, requires a built motor, which is not the case with a modular.


it runs pretty strong under 3500.

Modulars don't run as "strong" under 3500rpms,but they shine as they build higher rpms, thus you want a cam to promote lower end power. The other reason is that these SN95's weight anywhere between 500~800lbs more than a Fox body, so they NEED more power down low in the rpms.

There is a myth that 5.0L engine are TORQUE monsters compared to the modulars, which really is not true. NONE of the stock 5.0L engines from 79-95 produced more torque than any of the 99+ modulars. The 5.0L engine torque peaks around 3000rpms and is done at 3200rpms and maxes out at 300 ft-lbs stock. The modulars on the other hand has it's torque peak between 4000~4800rpms depending if it's a 2v or 4v. The 99+ Modulars, hit 300, 302, 310, 317 and 320 ft-lbs of torque depending on the year and if it's a SOHC or DOHC and they all did that around 4000~4800 rpms, again depending on year and if it's a DOHC or SOHC. So yes, your 5.0L will run pretty strong under 3500rpms because it makes it's peak torque at a much lower rpm level.

i have 3.08 in the rear and a T5 world class and except 4 it being carbed it would get decent mileage.

Modulars came with 3.27's which helps get it into it's power curve and allows it to rev which is what modulars like to do. Your gear ratio of 3.08 reflects where a stock pushrod would make it's power, which is at lower rpms.


I just dont know about the emissions thing cause i dont have to. of course a big cam on a street car does kinda sound like overkill. but i like overkill.

Emissions are much harder on the modulars, much stricter guidelines.


X303 is no where near as big as these cams that Silver posted.

That is why I am scratching my head on the power band issue.

It's not that they are bigger, but the packaging in general is different to match the nearly flat valve angles. The whole head assembly in general has a much different design than the push rods, and is actually more like a old Ford Flat Head v8.


eventually, reverse novi centrif. blower, new fuel pump, JE pistons, manley rods, MAC short headers, catback, catted x-pipe, street perf. clutch from hays, TKO 600 tranny, 4.10 gears, CAI, valves/springs/covers, nx nitrous

eventually :P


Question....... why are you going to use a blower, and then add nitrous to the mix? The Novi 1000RR supports 500hp. Which is 75hp less than your goal. The Novi 2000RR supports up to 980hp which is 405hp more than your goal, and would probally be much easier to attain your goals of 575hp. Your plan really does not make much sense to me and I have been sitting here for about a hour going over your wish list and it does not really quite seem thought out. Why did you choose the parts you listed? Why those brands and that blower etc etc?

Silver,

One of the better posts on here, thanks.

I have to go to London today, when I get back I will post.

Cheers

Double Post

We are talking about a modular engine, not a push rod. These modulars kick the crap out of push rods when it comes to building rpms. The modulars have alot more in common with crotch rockets than they do with traditional push rod engines. They respond much differently to cams than a slow revving pushrod. So yes, a X303 cam in a push rod that struggles to hit 5500-6000rpms will be streetable. On top of that, your wimpy 3.08 gearing also helps keep you down in rpms and is more in line with your power curve.

Even the modular 2v? I can see the 3v, and the 4v kicking the crap out of the old push rod motors. I gues it being just an overhead cam will help though.

And you just pointed out the other difference....... these modulars easly hit 6000-7000 rpms, without loosing the bottom end. I constantly bump my rev limiter which has been adjusted from 6200rpms to 6800rpms. To do 6800rpms in a push rod all the time, requires a built motor, which is not the case with a modular.

Yep, rev that puppy, its the onlt way to make power. Its just like the GTR's engine in that case.

There is a myth that 5.0L engine are TORQUE monsters compared to the modulars, which really is not true. NONE of the stock 5.0L engines from 79-95 produced more torque than any of the 99+ modulars. The 5.0L engine torque peaks around 3000rpms and is done at 3200rpms and maxes out at 300 ft-lbs stock. The modulars on the other hand has it's torque peak between 4000~4800rpms depending if it's a 2v or 4v. The 99+ Modulars, hit 300, 302, 310, 317 and 320 ft-lbs of torque depending on the year and if it's a SOHC or DOHC and they all did that around 4000~4800 rpms, again depending on year and if it's a DOHC or SOHC. So yes, your 5.0L will run pretty strong under 3500rpms because it makes it's peak torque at a much lower rpm level.

4.6s have an awesome power band, and with the new GT having aluminum blocks, I can't wait till my friend wrecks his, so I can go pull the engine :lol2:

Modulars came with 3.27's which helps get it into it's power curve and allows it to rev which is what modulars like to do. Your gear ratio of 3.08 reflects where a stock pushrod would make it's power, which is at lower rpms.

Gearing is everything when setting up a car. Know your engines strengths, and then you can exploit it with your gear selection.

It's not that they are bigger, but the packaging in general is different to match the nearly flat valve angles. The whole head assembly in general has a much different design than the push rods, and is actually more like a old Ford Flat Head v8.

So, a wider duration on a modular, is like a less duration of a push rod engine? I really am just learning about the modulars. I do like what I see though. The engine is like Combining my RB26DETT with my 5.0, its way cool.

Question....... why are you going to use a blower, and then add nitrous to the mix? The Novi 1000RR supports 500hp. Which is 75hp less than your goal. The Novi 2000RR supports up to 980hp which is 405hp more than your goal, and would probally be much easier to attain your goals of 575hp. Your plan really does not make much sense to me and I have been sitting here for about a hour going over your wish list and it does not really quite seem thought out. Why did you choose the parts you listed? Why those brands and that blower etc

I think he is just learning about the whole marriage of this compenents thing.

I think he is just learning about the whole marriage of this compenents thing.

yes :/

yes :/


We were all there at one time or another.

Even the modular 2v? I can see the 3v, and the 4v kicking the crap out of the old push rod motors. I gues it being just an overhead cam will help though.

Yup, and I have a 2v.:)

Yep, rev that puppy, its the onlt way to make power. Its just like the GTR's engine in that case.

It's one of the ways:
High RPMS
Large displacement
Lightweight rotating assembly
Lightweight valve train assembly
Low friction bearings
blower's
turbo's
etc, etc, etc



4.6s have an awesome power band, and with the new GT having aluminum blocks, I can't wait till my friend wrecks his, so I can go pull the engine :lol2:

Actually, I am a bit concerned that is is a aluminum block...they can't take as much boost as a iron block. But if I was going to build a power NA engine, then I would use aluminum and a lighter weight rotating assembly.


Gearing is everything when setting up a car. Know your engines strengths, and then you can exploit it with your gear selection.

Yup

So, a wider duration on a modular, is like a less duration of a push rod engine? I really am just learning about the modulars. I do like what I see though. The engine is like Combining my RB26DETT with my 5.0, its way cool.

It's a bit more complicated than that. I need to sit down one day and do a tech article on the differences between the SOHC, DOHC and Pushrod heads. There are alot of other things related to how the heads perform, the port shape, valve angle, mechanicle friction, valve train weight, valve size, cam size, cam weight, combustion champer size and shape etc etc.

I think he is just learning about the whole marriage of this compenents thing.

Once again, I attempted to kill a fly with a sledge hammer.....

There are alot of other things related to how the heads perform, the port shape, valve angle, mechanicle friction, valve train weight, valve size, cam size, cam weight, combustion champer size and shape

I have a pretty good understanding on how its relates to making a good head, and good power.

Looking at the ramp rate of those 2V modular cams, I would have to think they would a roller cam, correct?

Any chance you have any detailed pics on the valve train. I can google it, if you do not.

I have some small pics in the repair manual, but thats about it.

I'll put pic's up, I have some, among my many 1000's of images........

Disclaimer. My opinions and questions are not meant to offend anyone but to encourage a healthy discussion. DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE TO ANYTHING I SAY HERE.


Oh i wont take offense dont worry about that. LOL. I wouldnt call 6800 high rev since ur saying a push rod engine's 6500 sucks. Ive seen 302's hit 8500rpm now thats a big difference. I have nothing against 4.6's other than they weigh almost 500lbs more, they r slower from factory unless u get the svt. I think we should race. With my mods I have beaten people with a 12.8 in a 1/4. I would say that since i have a economy carb and a cam that its a huge accomplishment. Lets see a 4.6 do that with just a cam. So "wimpy" is out of question. Hating 5.0s wont get you anywhere. I was giving my input on cams and how they can be streetable. that didnt include emissions testing. Thats a totally different story. I dont know why this cams discussion keeps coming up, since it keeps ending. But other than i can keep it under the power range (which 4.6 is still a torque motor belive it or not) its still a big cam for a 5.0. The question was is a big cam streetable. Not is it building more power or not.

Actually, I am a bit concerned that is is a aluminum block...they can't take as much boost as a iron block. But if I was going to build a power NA engine, then I would use aluminum and a lighter weight rotating assembly.

Sure about that? Last I checked virtually every fast car is running an aluminum block. Top Fuel, Pro Stock, NMRA Pro 5.0, Pro Mod, everything.

I have seen 426 Hemi that had alloy blocks.