Banging my head

Hi guys,

This is my first post, I hope you all can help. I've tried a couple of other forums and just haven't had much luck. I recently bought an '85 Trans Am from the original owner with 115,000 miles on it. It has the LG4 motor 700R4 trans. Driving it home to Montana from Portland the car really ran like crap. Missing on more than one cylinder and way out of time. Unfortunately I had no choice but to drive it the 600 miles home. Okay, the morning after I got home, I was warming it up. It must have been about 30 degrees outside. after about 1 minute of idling whitish blue smoke began to pour out of the exhaust, in about 2 minutes it cleared up(This occurs every warm up in colder temps) I looked under the car and noticed the catalytic converter glowing red. Yikes! Also the oil smelled excessively of gasoline. That day I replaced the coolant temp sensor, thermostat, thermostat housing, changed the oil, we changed the plugs and reset the timing. 0 degrees at TDC right? After about 200 miles the 1, 3, and 7 plugs were fouled. The threads wet with black chunky/greasy/sooty deposits. It seems that the drivers side bank is the only one fouling plugs. 2, 4, 6, and 8 plugs were not great but not fouled either. I replaced plugs 1, 3, and 7. Within 300 miles I had a significant miss again, I pulled No. 1, guess what? Threads wet with same deposits on electrode and firing tip. Being a poor man as it is let alone all the money I don't have that I'm dumping into my new "girlfriend", I'm hoping to solve this problem easily (I cross my fingers and sqeeze my eyes shut in silent prayer) and without having to take her off of the road. One other mention is the temperature sender/switch, It probably needs replaced due to the guage temp never goes above 165. This affects nothing but the guage right? I will check this post several times a day so anyone with knowledge, please, please help me:banghead:. Ask any and all questions you want. I want to help you help me!:dogpile:

Hi guys,

This is my first post, I hope you all can help. I've tried a couple of other forums and just haven't had much luck. I recently bought an '85 Trans Am from the original owner with 115,000 miles on it. It has the LG4 motor 700R4 trans. Driving it home to Montana from Portland the car really ran like crap. Missing on more than one cylinder and way out of time. Unfortunately I had no choice but to drive it the 600 miles home. Okay, the morning after I got home, I was warming it up. It must have been about 30 degrees outside. after about 1 minute of idling whitish blue smoke began to pour out of the exhaust, in about 2 minutes it cleared up(This occurs every warm up in colder temps) I looked under the car and noticed the catalytic converter glowing red. Yikes! Also the oil smelled excessively of gasoline. That day I replaced the coolant temp sensor, thermostat, thermostat housing, changed the oil, we changed the plugs and reset the timing. 0 degrees at TDC right? After about 200 miles the 1, 3, and 7 plugs were fouled. The threads wet with black chunky/greasy/sooty deposits. It seems that the drivers side bank is the only one fouling plugs. 2, 4, 6, and 8 plugs were not great but not fouled either. I replaced plugs 1, 3, and 7. Within 300 miles I had a significant miss again, I pulled No. 1, guess what? Threads wet with same deposits on electrode and firing tip. Being a poor man as it is let alone all the money I don't have that I'm dumping into my new "girlfriend", I'm hoping to solve this problem easily (I cross my fingers and sqeeze my eyes shut in silent prayer) and without having to take her off of the road. One other mention is the temperature sender/switch, It probably needs replaced due to the guage temp never goes above 165. This affects nothing but the guage right? I will check this post several times a day so anyone with knowledge, please, please help me:banghead:. Ask any and all questions you want. I want to help you help me!:dogpile:

First of all your timing is off, I do not have the particular data for your engine, but there is no engine that fires on TDC. 0 degrees at TDC is just a starting point to get the engine run if the distributor was pulled.Most engines fire at 8 to 10 degrees before TDC. You should get this info and set the timing accordingly, that might already solve the problem. Obviously your gas does not burn properly, you might have already ruined the catalytic convertor. Unburned gas inside of it will destroy it, it will also explain the red hot glow.Go set your timing right and let us know what happened.

Thank you, that is where I'll start, I will post again and share the results.

I stopped at Checker auto last night to buy some more spark plugs. I don't have a timing light so I took the air cleaner off with the car running, grabbed hold of the distributor and turned it to the left a little. What a difference that made! After adjusting it for a few minutes I have the tires spinning on pavement from a dead stop! Beautiful! I can't thank you enough for that piece of advice. I didn't even change out the dirty plugs and it was running better than it has since I got it. Now my idle is at about 750 in park, if that's not good please let me know. I'll change out the plugs for new ones today and see what happens. Thank You!:lol2:

I see most of your problems were fixed from the timing, which makes sence. About your tempurature, has it risen about 165? If not check your thermastat, either you have a 165 therm or shes stuck partly open.

I actually put a 180* thermostat in it recently, I believe the problem with the low temperature resides in the temp sender/switch or the guage itself. The thermostat, housing, and coolant temp sensor are new.

Anyone have a preferred way of replacing the number 8 spark plug on these 305s? I've done it twice now but, there's got to be a better way. Thanks!

I stopped at Checker auto last night to buy some more spark plugs. I don't have a timing light so I took the air cleaner off with the car running, grabbed hold of the distributor and turned it to the left a little. What a difference that made! After adjusting it for a few minutes I have the tires spinning on pavement from a dead stop! Beautiful! I can't thank you enough for that piece of advice. I didn't even change out the dirty plugs and it was running better than it has since I got it. Now my idle is at about 750 in park, if that's not good please let me know. I'll change out the plugs for new ones today and see what happens. Thank You!:lol2:


sounds good, but have somebody with a light doublecheck. If the timing is off it also has an effect on your coolant temperature.You will also add to the longevity of your engine.

volkerc is right. better get that taken care of before severe damage is done.

volkerc is right. better get that taken care of before severe damage is done.

:loser:I'm sorry but I really feel stupid here. Could you please explain the damage that can be done? I drove it last night and nothing seems amiss, should I be listening for anything in particular? I won't be able to use a timing light without driving it 120 miles. How can I know it's timed close enough to prevent damage without using a light. Thanks so much guys, you've been really good to me.

:loser:I'm sorry but I really feel stupid here. Could you please explain the damage that can be done? I drove it last night and nothing seems amiss, should I be listening for anything in particular? I won't be able to use a timing light without driving it 120 miles. How can I know it's timed close enough to prevent damage without using a light. Thanks so much guys, you've been really good to me.


you really can't see it, that is the problem, a timing that is off (way off) from manufacturers specs has an influence on the combustion process, as you experienced your gas went unburnt through the exhaust causing your converter to lit up. from what you are describing you are not to far off anymore, the problem remains that under load conditions you might experience, knock, ping irregular combustion and therefore damage to your pistons, and or bearings can occur. for fuel effiency. performance and longevity of the engine it is important to stick with the manufacturers given timing. even though you might be close, your plugs might foul again or else, this is not to scare you, but in your own interest try to have somebody check on it. for the time being i would drive the car very carefully, especially after the trip you already put on the car, avoid "burnouts" and don't race the car even though it might be tempting, your wallet and your car will thank you. take care.

go to your local auto parts store and see if they have a light you can borrow or rent most will. plus the way you are checking your plugs for foul is wrong when ever you use this method you have to get up to speed and rpm's in order to get a proper reading and the shut it off and coast to a stop. watch the guys in nascar when they finish qualifying or practice laps they run it hard into turn four and shut it down and coast into the pit that way the idle mixture will not affect the plugs look because they tend to run a little richer on idle than on power. also your idle is great but for an automatic it is low you should adjust your mix until it start to want to move at idle and then bring it back down until she stops and then just a hair more it will ussually put you around 1000rpm or 950rpm. also when you fouled your plugs there was no need to buy new ones you just needed to clean them off a little and the engine will do the rest for you after about five minutes. as for your blueish white smoke you have alot of miles and your rings are probablly good and worn this would explain the fuel smell in the oil it is from blow-by getting past the rings. start saving for a rebuild. good luck have fun

go to your local auto parts store and see if they have a light you can borrow or rent most will. plus the way you are checking your plugs for foul is wrong when ever you use this method you have to get up to speed and rpm's in order to get a proper reading and the shut it off and coast to a stop. watch the guys in nascar when they finish qualifying or practice laps they run it hard into turn four and shut it down and coast into the pit that way the idle mixture will not affect the plugs look because they tend to run a little richer on idle than on power. also your idle is great but for an automatic it is low you should adjust your mix until it start to want to move at idle and then bring it back down until she stops and then just a hair more it will ussually put you around 1000rpm or 950rpm. also when you fouled your plugs there was no need to buy new ones you just needed to clean them off a little and the engine will do the rest for you after about five minutes. as for your blueish white smoke you have alot of miles and your rings are probablly good and worn this would explain the fuel smell in the oil it is from blow-by getting past the rings. start saving for a rebuild. good luck have fun


Supernaut 420

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHOULD YOU RACE YOUR ENGINE AS DESCRIBED HERE,BEFORE YOU HAD SOMEBODY CHECK ON THE TIMING!!!
Furthermore blueish white smoke only comes from unburnt fuel, which has nothing to do with your rings. If your rings are worn, you burn oil, and that will be black smoke! And your fuel smell in the oil is simply from the unburnt gas running everywhere, even collect in your oil, change the oil, check the timing and your good.

I got ahold of a timing light. I'm confused again. I followed the directions in my chiltons manual up to the point where it told me to disconnect the 4 wire EST terminal from the distributor. I don't have a 4 wire terminal. I have a 3 wire terminal and then the tach and bat connections. thats a total of five wires, on three seperate connectors. Anyway with everything plugged in. The car is Idling at about 700 rpm. When I aim the timing light at the mark on the balancer, it's like two inches above the timing plate. I wish I could draw a picture because that doesn't really make any sense when I read it back to myself but maybe you can figure out what I mean or ask me the right question to help you understand. When I turn the distributor to the left the rpms increase and the timing mark goes farther above the plate. If the mark is anywhere near the plate then the motor bogs down and hesitates when you give it throttle. What does it sound like guys? I need more infinite wisdom:rofl:
Thanks for all of your help so far!

I got ahold of a timing light. I'm confused again. I followed the directions in my chiltons manual up to the point where it told me to disconnect the 4 wire EST terminal from the distributor. I don't have a 4 wire terminal. I have a 3 wire terminal and then the tach and bat connections. thats a total of five wires, on three seperate connectors. Anyway with everything plugged in. The car is Idling at about 700 rpm. When I aim the timing light at the mark on the balancer, it's like two inches above the timing plate. I wish I could draw a picture because that doesn't really make any sense when I read it back to myself but maybe you can figure out what I mean or ask me the right question to help you understand. When I turn the distributor to the left the rpms increase and the timing mark goes farther above the plate. If the mark is anywhere near the plate then the motor bogs down and hesitates when you give it throttle. What does it sound like guys? I need more infinite wisdom:rofl:
Thanks for all of your help so far!


tough one without seeing it. if i understand you right, you are saying that you are aiming at the balancer, you should aim at the plate where it gives you all those numbers, 6 8 10 .... now you should bring the mark on the balancer to align it with the correct number on the plate, so i don't know your specs, but lets say if your supposed to set the timing to 8 degrees before tdc (or what ever your number is) turn the distributor until the number and the mark line up, i assume you are just pointing from a different angle, if you are not, i would have to ask you what kind of light you are using, there are advance lights that have a turn knob at the back of the light, make sure that knob is on "0" if it is not, it will have the effect that you just mentioned, you won't be able to bring the mark down to the plate, set the knob on 0 to adjust timing at idle.and yes turning the distributor will adjust it.hm, and another thing, my light has the clamp that that needs to be hooked to the nr 1 spark plug wire, a ground and the other wire goes to a positive lead, so i don't know what wire you are disconnecting... would be no need to with the light i'm using...

I'm using an inductive pickup timing light. It has a clamp that goes on the spark plug wire and a positive and a negative clamp. No adjustment knob. My Chiltons manual says that in order to set the timing the ECM must be placed in the bypass mode by disconnecting the 4 wire terminal at the distributor. I did notice but forgot to post this morning that about every twelve or so flashes of the timing light it will skip a flash or not flash rather. Could this be the reason the timing must be so far advanced for the car to run decent? Like I said earlier on my distributor there is a three wire terminal and two one wire terminals. Does this help you any? Thanks!
305 LG4 4BBL

I'm using an inductive pickup timing light. It has a clamp that goes on the spark plug wire and a positive and a negative clamp. No adjustment knob. My Chiltons manual says that in order to set the timing the ECM must be placed in the bypass mode by disconnecting the 4 wire terminal at the distributor. I did notice but forgot to post this morning that about every twelve or so flashes of the timing light it will skip a flash or not flash rather. Could this be the reason the timing must be so far advanced for the car to run decent? Like I said earlier on my distributor there is a three wire terminal and two one wire terminals. Does this help you any? Thanks!
305 LG4 4BBL


ok, so you pretty much have the correct light, let me tell you that i run an hei distributor with a crane ignition, and i do not disconnect anything, i just hook up the clamp to the spark plug wire and the pos and neg cables, try and do this the same way, see what kind of result you get, don't worry about the light skipping a flash, happens, sometimes,make sure your clamp is on the wire for the number 1 plug, let me know the results,...

Started the motor. Everything plugged in. Timing light connected. From the drivers side of the car I point the light at the timing plate on the block. The mark on the balancer does not come into range of the timing plate. From my view the mark on the balancer is hitting about two inches above the timing plate. If I turn the distributer clockwise to line up the mark with the plate. The motor acts like it's going to die, giving it throttle makes it wind up to rpm rather than rev up (no power). Leaving the mark two inches or so above the plate, I have very good throttle response, and it seems to pull better throughout the RPM range. What thoughts have you on this?

Started the motor. Everything plugged in. Timing light connected. From the drivers side of the car I point the light at the timing plate on the block. The mark on the balancer does not come into range of the timing plate. From my view the mark on the balancer is hitting about two inches above the timing plate. If I turn the distributer clockwise to line up the mark with the plate. The motor acts like it's going to die, giving it throttle makes it wind up to rpm rather than rev up (no power). Leaving the mark two inches or so above the plate, I have very good throttle response, and it seems to pull better throughout the RPM range. What thoughts have you on this?


not so good ones, do you have anybody that can double check on the adjustment? i'm still hoping you are doing something wrong, if not, you might have a problem with the crank pulley, being spun or else...
the other idea is that you have the wrong spark plug wire connected to the light, which will give you that kind of reading also...

not so good ones, do you have anybody that can double check on the adjustment? i'm still hoping you are doing something wrong, if not, you might have a problem with the crank pulley, being spun or else...
the other idea is that you have the wrong spark plug wire connected to the light, which will you that kind of reading also...

I'll double check the wires and see if I can find someone to double check my reading. I'll post in the morning and reveal the details. Thanks again.

Okay check this out. I had a friend double check what I was doing. He said that the way the car is running jwith the timing so far advanced is where it should be running with the timing in th ecorrect spot. His suggestion is that perhaps I am a tooth or two off with the distributor. Would that cause the car to run normally when the timing mark reads advanced? If that's not it, please give me the bad news. Thanks Volcerc!

More likely your harmonic balancer outer ring has slipped so where it says 0 it is not.
To check this remove the #1 spark plug and put your finger over the hole while turning the engine over by hand (1/2" drive ratchet & 5/8" socket on the balancer bolt) as you approach #1 TDc on compression you'll feel the air in the cylinfer blow by your finger. Keep rotatng the engine until the air stops. Now look at the harmonic balancer, is the timing mark on it lined up with 0 on the timing tab?
If it isn't make sure you are on #1 TDC and clean the balancer and make a temporary mark on it at 0 with something like a sharpie. Put the plug back in and fire up the engine and check the timing again.

Okay check this out. I had a friend double check what I was doing. He said that the way the car is running jwith the timing so far advanced is where it should be running with the timing in th ecorrect spot. His suggestion is that perhaps I am a tooth or two off with the distributor. Would that cause the car to run normally when the timing mark reads advanced? If that's not it, please give me the bad news. Thanks Volcerc!


I doubt that it is the case, if you are a tooth or two off, you would most likely fire the wrong cylinder first, so that would mean your engine would not run very well, you obviously had a timing problem from the getgo, so just to eliminate this idea, take the distributor cap off turn the engine by hand , bring the mark on the damper to the "0" mark on the plate and see where the rotor would point to. does it point to the cylinder 1 spark plug wire? you need to fix this otherwise you will not be able to properly adjust the ignition/timing, another thing, rpm's and timing go together, you need to set the timing at the manufacturers rpm, so just turning the distributor is not setting the timing, you have to use the adjustment screw for the gas to bring the rpm's down and then advance the distributor , and hopefully this will bring it to align the marks...i hope you know what i mean with this explanation...

I got you. I know what to do. Will reply when procedure is complete. Thanks so much for your patience. Hopefully these posts will help someone else with the same problem.

I got you. I know what to do. Will reply when procedure is complete. Thanks so much for your patience. Hopefully these posts will help someone else with the same problem.


lets get your problem solved first...

I think you are right about the balancer outer ring slipping. When my timing mark is aligned to zero on the timing plate, my rotor is facing the firewall. However at No.1 TDC My rotor faces the No.1 Plug Tower on The Distributor, but the timing mark is somewhere on the bottom of the pulley. So I need to make a new mark on the balancer and use it to adjust my timing?

I think you are right about the balancer outer ring slipping. When my timing mark is aligned to zero on the timing plate, my rotor is facing the firewall. However at No.1 TDC My rotor faces the No.1 Plug Tower on The Distributor, but the timing mark is somewhere on the bottom of the pulley. So I need to make a new mark on the balancer and use it to adjust my timing?


That was the fear I had, and no you should not make a mark on the balancer, as that would not be accurate either, replace the balancer, oem are not that expensive, you do not need a race or aftermarket performance balancer, stick with the regular piece, replace, adjust timing and have fun, it would explain your unburnt fuel also, if the previous owner adjusted timing with that balancer, it would run for s... anyways. to replace you have to take off the center bolt, make sure to tighten it down again with the exact torque, use a torque wrench for it.

Breaking news. I found the 4 wire EST connector that my chiltons manual was talking about. Apparently this is the computer controlled timing advance. I set the timing to about 8 degrees before with the connector unplugged like the book says.( I used the original timing mark on the balancer) I put the car in drive like my emmisions sticker says, my idle was 550 rpm lik ethe emissions sticker says. I can't really read any of the numbers on the timing plate except for zero. So I set it a few marks above zero. Turned off the motor, plugged the 4 wire EST connector back in. Fired it up and Viola! The car is running again, no backfire on decceleration, so I guess my question is, how long do I have before this balancer tears my motor up. Oh yeah I almost forgot, remember a few posts ago when I said that the car was running well but the timing mark was way above the timing plate? Well after setting the timing with the 4 wire connector unplugged and then plugging it back in, the mark is in almost exactly the same spot! About two inches above the timing plate! So I think the manual was correct in telling me to unplug that connector, it seemed to do what it was supposed to. I just priced a balancer and they are like 80 dollars. So this weekend I'll probably tackle that job. Thanks some more:biggrin:

Breaking news. I found the 4 wire EST connector that my chiltons manual was talking about. Apparently this is the computer controlled timing advance. I set the timing to about 8 degrees before with the connector unplugged like the book says.( I used the original timing mark on the balancer) I put the car in drive like my emmisions sticker says, my idle was 550 rpm lik ethe emissions sticker says. I can't really read any of the numbers on the timing plate except for zero. So I set it a few marks above zero. Turned off the motor, plugged the 4 wire EST connector back in. Fired it up and Viola! The car is running again, no backfire on decceleration, so I guess my question is, how long do I have before this balancer tears my motor up. Oh yeah I almost forgot, remember a few posts ago when I said that the car was running well but the timing mark was way above the timing plate? Well after setting the timing with the 4 wire connector unplugged and then plugging it back in, the mark is in almost exactly the same spot! About two inches above the timing plate! So I think the manual was correct in telling me to unplug that connector, it seemed to do what it was supposed to. I just priced a balancer and they are like 80 dollars. So this weekend I'll probably tackle that job. Thanks some more:biggrin:

GOOD JOB!
Knew something wasn't right.I'm happy for you! Your old balancer was in this state for quite some time already. i assume, so after you changed it just be easy on the engine for a while, so everything has a chance to work itself back in again, do your oil changes, and you'll be good, if it were my car I would drive it for 1000 miles easy,no hard accelarations, no excessive speeds.
Glad you got this handled.