Cams....

Ok so Im still in constant decision as to where I am going to go with my car. I think I am going to scrap the used supercharger with custom piping idea. Im thinking ill go N/A... (might change my mind again, but for now im going with it.)

Ok when looking at cams, what do you look for? What lift/dur? How do you know if the cam will be a-ok with your stock heads *eventually heads might be swapped out*?

If anyone has a link to a "cam choosing" guide or at least explanations, I would greatly appreciate it.
Also what is the best formula for running NA (as in order of getting things)? First and formost I want to get my 4.10s. Some think that might be a bad idea, but im not worried about slight loss in fuel economy. Im pretty set on the 4.10s. Then I figure exhaust (although I have been told LTs are not that great on Mustangs untill after extensive work), I figure I would do all exhaust at once... Then what next? Would I be looking to cam? Or should I be going with other minor bolt ons, like UDP?

So If anyone out there wants to graciously help me, please do it list style like this:
1. 4.10s
2. headers/midpipe/catback
3. UDP
4. Cam
5. Heads
(this list isnt anything in particular, just an example).

I told you man...LTs on a a modular are no fun. It's about an 8 hour job. Not to mention with certain LTs you can't remove the bellhousing on the tranny...That adds another 8 or so hours to having your clutch swapped since they have to uninstall them then reinstall them. Save your money and get a 'used' centrifrugal blower. Used as in purchased, but never installed. You can pick up prochargers and vortechs for around $2,500 complete.

If your gonna even spend money and time installing headers on a motor go LT's. If you want the easy route then just stick with CAI, UD pullies, TB, cat-back and leave the headers to the big boys.

As far as cam you need to decide what you want as a package and either wait or end up buying a cam that works now and buying anothe one when you upgrade your other parts.

Definitely LTs if you insist on headers...but I'm saying you shouldn't even mess with headers at this point.

Definitely LTs if you insist on headers...but I'm saying you shouldn't even mess with headers at this point.
Well thats was kinda my point, i was saying it as when I do exhaust, ill do the full deal, but when should I have that on a list? The problem is, I dont want to buy a midpipe, just to sell it a year later for a LT mid pipe. If that means pushing back exhaust, thats ok with me.

We (Me and Duplox) actually priced out a used kit for supercharger. It came to about 1.7k. It involved buying a used headunit for about $900. All the piping would have been custom done for it by Duplox. I then had to buy injectors, fuel pumps, ect... We estimated it to about 400rwhp. The only problem is, he lives far from me. And I think it would be very hard to ship him the headunit, while he goes around near him looking for someone to let him under the hood for a 99+. If duplox couldnt be the man for the job, we are looking at anouther price increase, due to no one around here would "hook me up" like he could. That 1.7 also left out certain things like dyno tuning...Also id like to say I could install it myself, but im pretty sure it would cost me over 1k to get it installed.

It would be much harder (and costly) to get 400hp from a N/A engine. However, many of the small things I could have done myself. I would have been able to do almost everything (with a buddy) minus gears and LT headers.

Like I said, im back to the drawing table on what to do, unfortunatly I have been here to long.

Well thats was kinda my point, i was saying it as when I do exhaust, ill do the full deal, but when should I have that on a list? The problem is, I dont want to buy a midpipe, just to sell it a year later for a LT mid pipe. If that means pushing back exhaust, thats ok with me.

We (Me and Duplox) actually priced out a used kit for supercharger. It came to about 1.7k. It involved buying a used headunit for about $900. All the piping would have been custom done for it by Duplox. I then had to buy injectors, fuel pumps, ect... We estimated it to about 400rwhp. The only problem is, he lives far from me. And I think it would be very hard to ship him the headunit, while he goes around near him looking for someone to let him under the hood for a 99+. If duplox couldnt be the man for the job, we are looking at anouther price increase, due to no one around here would "hook me up" like he could. That 1.7 also left out certain things like dyno tuning...Also id like to say I could install it myself, but im pretty sure it would cost me over 1k to get it installed.

It would be much harder (and costly) to get 400hp from a N/A engine. However, many of the small things I could have done myself. I would have been able to do almost everything (with a buddy) minus gears and LT headers.

Like I said, im back to the drawing table on what to do, unfortunatly I have been here to long.


Honestly man you confuse me here.....

What year is ya stang? What kinda power do you wanna make?

Honestly man you confuse me here.....

What year is ya stang? What kinda power do you wanna make?
Sorry bro....
Let me first queue you in on my car..I have a 1999 Mustang GT 5speed. It is pretty much stock (came with K&N and flowmaster mufflers. Neither of which I mind keeping/losing). I want about 300-350hp, however i wouldnt mind having more (as in the supercharger setup). My original goal (before buying the car) was hitting 12s. That would give me enough of a balance between being my daily driver, and tearing it up on weekend cruise/race nights. However I am torn on which way to go.

The thing that is nice about the N/A setup, is I feel I can do part by part, rather then all at once of a Supercharger. Although more expensive, it would be speed over time. With the supercharger, Id have to wait awhile (to gather the cash), but I would jump right into the category I want.

Building a N/A modular is no damn fun. You can expect to hit 330-ish RWHP with a fully built motor, ported heads, big cams.

FUCK CAMS, find an S-trim. You will be happier with the blower, by far.

Building a N/A modular is no damn fun. You can expect to hit 330-ish RWHP with a fully built motor, ported heads, big cams.

FUCK CAMS, find an S-trim. You will be happier with the blower, by far.

I'm with Boosted here just use FI on the car it is sooo much cheaper and you'll get more power on a Mod motor.

N/A modulars just aren't worth the hassle for us street/strip guys. Not to mention you'd need drag radials/slicks to run those times N/A...so you'd need a rebuilt rearend with 31 spline gears/31 spine differential. A stock GT mustang save for 4.10s+drag radials=broken axles. With a blower..you can still spin your way to 12s. As long as you're not catching traction..you wont be breaking axles.

I don't think 12's will be too difficult NA for a modular engine. It's just a matter of coming up with a total package. You have to look at everything on your car, not just the engine. Getting 310~330hp to the wheels NA shouldn't be extremely difficult. You really need to make intelligent choices on the parts you are getting, and everything needs to compliment each other.

There are things on your car that take power away from what hits your wheels. You might want to consider replacing those with better parts. For instance, rotational mass alone can kill 10-50hp depending on how much weight your engine has to turn.

This is a list of rotalational mass than rob HP and TQ that can be replaced with lighter aftermarket components.

1) Ring and Pinion (Motive Gear offers gears that are between 1.5~2lbs lighter in weight.
2) Driveshaft (Aluminum or Carbon Fiber)
3) Flywheel ( Aluminum or Steel vs the 37lbs Stock IRON flywheel)
4) Pressure plate (Have it lightend, removes about 1.2~1.5 lbs)
5) Water pump (Go electric)
6) Rotors ( Two piece rotors weigh much less than stock rotors)
7) Wheels/Tires ( Light weight rims can weigh as little as 12lbs)
8) Pulley's. (Remove some of the drag, spin the accesories slower)

When in doubt, boost that fucker:D

When in doubt, boost that fucker:D



That's the easy way to do things.........

Ok you guys convinced me... I will try not to go into FI denial anymore (just keeps happening though). I decided that the day that school is over, will be the day I look for a summer full time job. 40 hours a week + my weekend grocery 12 hours. With that workload (im used to school + 2 jobs ~ shouldnt be do bad), I will be able to afford blower and essential parts, money for going out and fun, insurance cash, gas, and maybe some money tucked away for Nittos.

The thing about the bolt ons is you need to use every bit of the power you make. And so you have to build your rearend, etc. With a blower..you'll have so much power you can just spin your way to 12s.

The thing about the bolt ons is you need to use every bit of the power you make. And so you have to build your rearend, etc. With a blower..you'll have so much power you can just spin your way to 12s.


True, but what's more impressive....

the guy that pulls 12's in the quarter NA or the guy with a blower doing 12's??????

yes, yes, yes! silverstangs has a good point here, it isn't always about what you put on your engine, but it is also about what you take off, too. and i agree that the drivetrane should be viewed as a total package, why do people put so much emphasis on the engine when there is so much room for improvement? since you sound as if you are kindof indecisive about what what you want, except to go faster, i'd say save your money and have the block and reciprocating/ rotating mass taken care of first. if you feel that you are going to want to go huge bite the bullet and order the forged crank, stronger connecting rods (don't use aluminum if you plan to drive the car daily) and forged pistons (you'll have to choose between forced induction and n/a here, but you can take the middle ground and make the difference in the heads later). obtain a usable clutch assembly and have any lightening work you desire done and when all of the parts arrive box them up and send them to someone who can ballance the whole assembly (it must be done all at once for the best result). after this is installed you'll have a bottom end that is more likely to live well under the stress that you plan to put it through, and on that note don't forget to attend to the oil pump. you'll probably want to use all of the good stand by tricks like a windage tray and baffled oil pan to help control the sump oil (of better yet, dry sump it, just joking$$$) carbon fiber drive shafts are worlds better than steel or aluminum, and not just because they are lighter. carbon fiber will deform under the initial load of taking off, and then return this energy later when the load is not as great, kindof like a spring. but the price is steep, so aluminum is a good trade-off becaues it is at least lighter than the stock steel driveshaft. underdrive puleys would be a good place to start since the instalation is easy and there is the immediate gratification value. the same goes for lighter rims, plus you will notice the car handles better (less unsprung weight is always good, for that matter less sprung weight is good too, just not AS good). i'd stay away from the electric water pump since they it won't create enough water pressure in the block to provide good cooling during sustained driving. the high pressure in the engine's cooling jacket prevents coolant from boiling as easily (a small controlled ammount is good, but if it gets out of hand the steam will impede coolant flow). go here for more information, this guy has done a good writeup on many different topics that concern dragracers, or performance nuts in general.

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeRacing/tech/coolingsystems.pdf

cams can be difficult to choose, and they can reduce drivability if the profile is too wild. forced induction engines can be made to develop rediculous power and be detuned for normal driving. plus their optimum cam profiles are not that different from stock (especially for turbos, but you've not displayed interest in this topic). anything you do to help with your engine's breathability (VE) will help in your quest for power numbers. if you desire more torque at low rpm go for a tri-Y manifold (or if you can fit a crossover manifold... dream on) but a four to one collector (long tube headers) will do wonders at high rpm.

well, that's it for my most recent novel

i reread your initial post and i realised that i responded in an incorrect manner according to the requirements that you described, so to ammend my last post i'll say

1. replace whole exhaust with a high flow system
2. install wet nitrous system
3. have it professionaly tuned
4. fix the weakest drivetrane component
5. fix the next weakest drivetrane component
6. so on and so forth untill you own a super built drivetrane, that way you spread the build process over a long time and enjoy immediate speed that nitrous provides :)

nitrous = cheap 1/4 mile speed and daily drivable car

Nitrous is addictive. You gotta know when to stay off the bottle. You'll be on the bottle everytime you get near a corvette. I don't think he's really trying to impress anyone by the means..but by the actual times. 12s are 12s. And 12s are impressive. N/A, blown, turbo, nitrous. 12s are 12s. The most reliable way to run 12s..is with a blower. Like I said..if he goes N/A..he's going to need to beef up his rearend in order to utilize the smaller amount of power he has. But, if he goes blown..he can safely spin his way to 12s. And then when he gets the money to build his rearend..all he needs is drag radials and he's running 11s.

True, but what's more impressive....

the guy that pulls 12's in the quarter NA or the guy with a blower doing 12's??????

Not true, but who has more fun? The guy running mid 12's @ 109, maybe 110 in his GT with 4.30 gears that doesn't idle so great, and that is hard as shit on drivetrain stuff because he has to launch it like a bitch on slicks to get it to run that number, or the guy that rolls up to the strip on 18" nittos, with pump gas, full interior, smooth idle, and runs a mellow 12.5 @ 120?

Boost owns, period.

Exactly my point, boosted. :)

Boost is the gearhears crack pipe, once you get a hit, you will never put it down.

i'm not trying to start an argument here, but:

Nitrous is addictive.
that is understandable

You gotta know when to stay off the bottle.
that's easy, it's illegal on the street.


I don't think he's really trying to impress anyone by the means..but by the actual times.
and a blower isn't a show piece? an aluminum bottle isn't that impressive, no matter what color it is. the only people who go seriously gaga over just seeing a nitrous container probably have not even seen the inside of an engine.

But, if he goes blown..he can safely spin his way to 12s. And then when he gets the money to build his rearend..all he needs is drag radials and he's running 11s.
unless the rearend breaks first. there is no way to get around having to trade stock componets for stronger parts when an engine's output is increased, no matter how it is done. all power adders are hard on the drivetrane, but for someone who is budget minded and only wants to race on the weekend (especially 1/4 mile) nitrous is an appealing alternative. if you want to change the cam to taylor the engine to nitrous (and that's nessecarry only with large shots) then the major concern is with the exhaust profile, and the exhaust system as a whole. nitrous is not the evil deamon that eats engines, most of the time people run lean because they keep "turning it up" without thinking about the fuel, and that can happen with any power adder.

that's easy, it's illegal on the street.



unless the rearend breaks first. there is no way to get around having to trade stock componets for stronger parts when an engine's output is increased, no matter how it is done. all power adders are hard on the drivetrane, but for someone who is budget minded and only wants to race on the weekend (especially 1/4 mile) nitrous is an appealing alternative. if you want to change the cam to taylor the engine to nitrous (and that's nessecarry only with large shots) then the major concern is with the exhaust profile, and the exhaust system as a whole. nitrous is not the evil deamon that eats engines, most of the time people run lean because they keep "turning it up" without thinking about the fuel, and that can happen with any power adder.

No its not illegal, that is not federally mandated, it depends on the state you are in.

You ain't going to break your rearend unless you hook, spinning is not hooking.

But I totally agree with you on the lean part of your post. Very true.

i understand the difference between spinning and hooking. i've also seen a BONE STOCK vehicle that stripped the splines off one of its axle shafts. fouled launches can suck.

thanks for the info on the legality of nitrous, i'll have to check on that. my room mate is hell bent on installing it in his car, but i can not figure out why. it is not like he races, but it would be fun.

i understand the difference between spinning and hooking. i've also seen a BONE STOCK vehicle that stripped the splines off one of its axle shafts. fouled launches can suck.

thanks for the info on the legality of nitrous, i'll have to check on that. my room mate is hell bent on installing it in his car, but i can not figure out why. it is not like he races, but it would be fun.

N2O is cool, no pun intended. Like what has been mentioned, you just have to know your engines limit, if not you might as well carry a garbage can so when it goes, you can clean up your mess.

N2O is cool, no pun intended. Like what has been mentioned, you just have to know your engines limit, if not you might as well carry a garbage can so when it goes, you can clean up your mess.


I couldn't have said that better myself........

So far I had to fix three 99~04 Mustangs that blew apart the intake from a N2O backfire.... Our GT Mustangs have a plastic lower intake....if your not tuned right... even if your using a 30 shot, your gonna pop that intake.

Building a N/A modular is no damn fun. You can expect to hit 330-ish RWHP with a fully built motor, ported heads, big cams.

FUCK CAMS, find an S-trim. You will be happier with the blower, by far.

Ya hes got a point. Id say heads and a decent cam thats pretty common for a 4.6 (what would i know im a 5.0 guy!) But u cant beat a kenne bell supercharger!

Ya hes got a point. Id say heads and a decent cam thats pretty common for a 4.6 (what would i know im a 5.0 guy!) But u cant beat a kenne bell supercharger!

Yes you can its called a turbo :evillol:

Yes you can its called a turbo :evillol:
neither of which I can afford. Kenne Bells are about 4k+, turbos in kit form are 4-5k, local guy said he might be able to pull a kit for 3k. He said 3k would be a stretch, but would put me at about 450hp, with a BC i can turn down boost for average street driving (like i ever would) lol.

I said he'd be putting on the nitrous to race every corvette he sees. Street racing is illegal too. But I know my friend highrev87 is into that also. By the time the thrill of nitrous is over, he'll have broken enough parts, and refilled his bottle enough to buy a supercharger and rebuilt rearend. And you totally missed the point about things being impressive. Someone said N/A running 12s is more impressive than a blower. So I mentioned how I don't think highrev is really trying to impress anyone. And yes, there are ways around replacing stock pieces. Atleast prolonging them. Guess how many hard launches with 4.10s and drag radials his stock rearend will handle? 2? maybe 3? Hell..it could break on the first launch. But, he could go alot longer with a blower spinning them tires. By then he'd have money for a built rearend. Okay, anything else I didn't cover?

The stock 8.8 is a LOT stronger than you think. With a peaky centrifugal and not a whole lot of torque coming from a 4.6, he doesn't have anything to worry about.

Um...I hope you're not talking to me. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. As long as he's not hooking up, he wont break that rearend. But once he starts using drag radials and 4.10s...it's gone.

I said he'd be putting on the nitrous to race every corvette he sees. Street racing is illegal too. But I know my friend highrev87 is into that also. By the time the thrill of nitrous is over, he'll have broken enough parts, and refilled his bottle enough to buy a supercharger and rebuilt rearend. And you totally missed the point about things being impressive. Someone said N/A running 12s is more impressive than a blower. So I mentioned how I don't think highrev is really trying to impress anyone. And yes, there are ways around replacing stock pieces. Atleast prolonging them. Guess how many hard launches with 4.10s and drag radials his stock rearend will handle? 2? maybe 3? Hell..it could break on the first launch. But, he could go alot longer with a blower spinning them tires. By then he'd have money for a built rearend. Okay, anything else I didn't cover?
Actually...this guy does understand me alot more then many think.
I gave up on n20 idea, because I would be filling to often, and probally would push it to far.
He is right with me not trying to impress anyone. I race (including street) for thrill, I win, then I win, I lose then I lose. Id rather win, but sometimes it is just about the thrill.
I also heard that 4.10 + to much traction equals bye bye rear end. I figured if running N/A, id have to work it up. I will do this either way, but with a blower, like mentioned, I can run normal street tires until the rear end is built to handle traction.
Thanks every1 for thier help. Special thanks to Dampachi because he has also "been there" for me on AIM lately, real nice guy. Im pretty sure ill try to get a full time job for the summer. Hopefully by the end, ill have a blown four-six. And of course detailed pictures/videos/stories to share with you afterwards.

No problem buddy, you can always hit me up on AIM. Last time "I" didn't really say much because you IMed me when my girlfriend was on my computer and I was just telling her what to type because she was sitting on my lap and my hands were elsewhere.

No problem buddy, you can always hit me up on AIM. Last time "I" didn't really say much because you IMed me when my girlfriend was on my computer and I was just telling her what to type because she was sitting on my lap and my hands were elsewhere.
LOL, it's cool. I wouldnt have expected you to drop her one the floor for car talk lol.

Um...I hope you're not talking to me. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. As long as he's not hooking up, he wont break that rearend. But once he starts using drag radials and 4.10s...it's gone.

My dad runs the stock rear end with some C-clip elims + 4.30 gears in his 380 RWHP 96 cobra, he dumps the clutch at 6500 on 26" MT DR's all day long. Like I said, plenty strong even for DR's and 4.10's.

wow, that's crazy boosted. I've heard of guys snapping axles with just drag radials and 4.10s with the stock hp/tq.

Not that you guys need my input, but I believe on the lines of what boosted thinks. The 8.8 is a fairly strong rear, and should be able to handle a lot of abuse, now I am not sure about the axles :naughty:

My old car I had a few years ago (331 mexi block with a T72) made over 650 RWTQ on the stock axles, and I drove it basically everywhere on BFG's. I sheared a couple studs off the axle which is when I decided it would be an OK idea to upgrade while I had the rear end apart anyways. 31 spline trac lock from a JY + rebuilt, and some moser axles for like 250 bucks, and it took a lot of abuse. The new owner is still driving it on those axles, but he's moved up to a bigger turbo.