which car mag to trust??

i couldnt find anywhere else to post this soo anywas...Im a regualr subscriber to both Road&track and Car&driver and i find myself very complexed on all thier car comparos and test-outs...

For instance...R&T tested a Porsche Cayenne Turbo and got a 0-60 time of 5.0s flat when Porsche claims it does 0-60 in 5.5-5.7s. I believe both mags did a test drive with the 04 Dodge SRT-4s and got a time of 5.9's but for some reason everywhere else ive seen times between 5.2-5.4???

Many Many varibles come into play when testing a cars like that. Driver,Car condition *new,used, already used test car*, weather,temp, engine condition. Driver wise who knows expiernced racer or regualar magazine guy. Like for example if had Tiff nidell and some regular joe test a car tiff would diff probably have better times.

i'd say, the guys from c/d are the better drivers it seems to me.
c/d ran the c5 vette at 13.0 m/t ran it at 13.4

c/d ran the supra at 13.1, other mags ran it at 13.4

I agree. Weather, fuel quality, traction control on or off, driving ability... all could easily account for the discrepancy. Can you tell the difference between a hot day and a cold day in your own car? If not then you won't be able to tell the difference between 5.4 and 5.9.

Depending on the manufacturer it could be just different vehicles. Ford made an oversight on some 90's Cobras. They used a different intake manifold on some thinking it wouldn't make much difference. It ended up causing a 60 hp difference! It was an oversight that affected thousands of cars, but it was taken care of in a recall. That's also a rare occurence, but some manufacturers have more variation than others. I certainly don't expect Porsche to be that widespread, but they do farm out some of their engines and other parts to VW. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but its just the V8 and its auto tranny that comes from VW, right?

Any of the mainstream car mags are trustworthy, but they do use different cars, different climates, and different drivers.

your right^^ i agree 100%

hot day and cold day is a easy notice in turbo charged cars.

though there are differences in variables to 1320 times. it seems for the most part c/d run better times. could be sea level, could be better drivers. but something there doing over there is getting some nice times

Talk about Sea Level.

Last saturday some 17 year olds went to the track at my city with a BMW M3 and the best time they got was a 15.2.

Mustang Gts 2000s run 15.8, My Civic SiR runs 16.6...bottom line, altitude is a fuc*ing acceleration killer.

but something there doing over there is getting some nice times

I bet its their lavish grande mocha frap they indulge on in the mornings that gets their nerves going :biggrin:

Anyways I wouldn't necessarily say one is better than the other. IMO all they do is give you thier scoop from actual tests (mostly). They can vary from each mag, but it helps the enthusiast audience (or whatever be) to formulate better opinions.

In all fairness I would say that they at least try to be as fair and balanced as possible........jezzz, now I sound like I work for FOX. :lol:

Which one's are the so-called "mainstream"magazines?

Which one's are the so-called "mainstream"magazines?\

Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend, Consumer Reports. That's what I'd say would be mainstream.

I agree that C&D always seems to get really good times. I remember when they got 0-60 in 3.3 for the Ford GT, and basically everyone else said that was BS.

In the origional post DetriotMuscle said that Porsche got a 5.5ish 0-60 while R&T got faster. This is because German companies, especially Porsche, are often underrate their car's performance.

I've also found a heavy bias towards certain kinds of cars in different magazines. American mags like C&D and R&T absolutely love cars like the 05' Mustang GT and the Chrysler 300C. They were both on C&D's top ten list, and R&T's best cars of 2005 (the 300C won). However when you go over to a British car mag like EVO or CAR (self proclaimed "world's best car mag") they think the 300 is nothing but a wannabe Bentley and they call the Mustang GT far inferior to the 350z. None of the European car mags like the Corvette when compared to the 911, and they all dislike the Viper. I'm not trying to say that they were wrong (actually I agree with them more often then not), but there is a tendancy in the "mainstream" magazines to prefer different cars then ones in other countries. Another example is the European love of hatch-backs. They love the VW GTi, Clio 182, Civic R, 206, etc. The hatch-back craze in Europe hasn't really caught on in America, and this is reflected in all of our magazines that rate and compare the GTi (the only real sport hatch sold in America).

I do not believe that there is one magazine that you can trust all the time. The staffs at the different magazines like different types of cars, and are better at test driving different kinds of cars.

Break in time can also skew times. Brand new cars, usually don't drive as fast as one with a few thousand miles on it.

I consider the mainstream magazines to be the ones that at least attempt to be as unbiased as possible and review a wide spread of generally stock cars. C&D, R&T, EVO, CAR, Automobile, Top Gear, and ones like those I consider "mainstream". Non-"mainstream" mags include Super Street, Import Tuner, Super Chevy, Performance BMW, European Car, Euro Tuner, etc... At least this is my definition

U consider Super Street a non main stream. I thought they were the biggest "tuner" mag out there according to sales last year. But they are that a Tuner mag compared to R&T,automobile,C&D. I prefer Automobile mag the best b/c they are unbiased. Like they did a article the new vette vs the new porsche. They talked bout how the vette dominated the straight and coming off corners, BUT they said that the porsche handle the left/right flick ALOT better and that the porsche rewarded late braking as the vette punished you for it. Also there article 4 of a kind. Pitted the 350z roadster,porsche boxter,S2000, BMW Z4. They took them to the interstate,back country road,track, and strip i think. Then they talked bout the advantages and disadvantges of all on each part of the road.

Perhaps "mainstream" was not the word I should have used. How about "common"? "widely distributed"? I didn't include any tuner magazines since I don't have any experience with them. We were basically talking about off-the-showroom-floor vehicles. Automobile magazine is one that I missed. I find them all to be wonderfully unbiased. They report truthfully on weaknesses, strengths, and overall gut feelings without prejudice. I like them all equally for that quality but I find C&D and MT to be a more enjoyable style of reading for my own personality.

as far as i'm concerned, the thing about C&D is that they're heavily biased towards the sportier side of cars. so cars that are sportier will always score higher in their comparos, even in comparos where sport shouldn't even be considered. if memory serves correct, they ranked the honda odyssey higher because it felt sportier to drive. :confused: they need to be a little bit more neutral in comparos like that, critique the car for the purpose it's 'meant to serve, which is to comfortably carry people and cargo. i think C&D has a bias towards honda and bmw. have you seen a 10 best list without at least one bmw and/or one honda on it??? not to say the honda(s) and bmw(s) aren't deserving but just something to think about. and seldom does a honda or bmw rank in the bottom half of any comparo that i've noticed in C&D. i tend to think automobile magazine is pretty consistent compared to C&D, MT or R&T. just me. i think they all provide useful information for the average car enthusiast.

From my own experiance?

I wouldn't trust any car magazine. Ever.

They are like all mainstream media, and work with in a set budget, and with set sales targets. Like to many modern bussiness they are more often being considered more important than ethical behaviour and honest reporting.

From my own experiance?

I wouldn't trust any car magazine. Ever.

They are like all mainstream media, and work with in a set budget, and with set sales targets. Like to many modern bussiness they are more often being considered more important than ethical behaviour and honest reporting.


that's a good point but for people just looking for some information on cars they may be wanting to purchase, i think they can be useful. sometimes they offer good articles, not on specific cars but on trends, technological advancements, current events in the automotive industry, not to mention some cool sneak peaks.

haha, i sound like an advertisement for one of them. but if you want realistic reviews of certain cars, i would say the best source would the owners themselves, where you can find on boards like AF. :icon16:

Lately...I have to agree that mags have more entertainment value than factual information value...so it's tough to say if magazines are on the straight and narrow and giving us the real answers. I mean...sometimes you got a car that wins a comparo and you are like...how the hell...like when the RX8 beat the SVT Cobra and 350z...I was thinking...someone paid for this win.

M/T does it all the time...the COTY award I think goes to the highest bidder...not necessarily the best car of that year.



But if I was to pick a mag to live w/for the rest of my life...only one comes to mind.

CAR (from the UK)...I mean...just the pictures...heaven.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/NISSANSPDR/Random%20Pics/enzo.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/NISSANSPDR/Random%20Pics/gt2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/NISSANSPDR/Random%20Pics/eclass.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/NISSANSPDR/Random%20Pics/focusRS.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/NISSANSPDR/Random%20Pics/brits.jpg

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but its just the V8 and its auto tranny that comes from VW, right?

-Actually, the V8 in the Porsche and the V8 in the VW don't really have anything in common. The heads are completely different (the VW has five valves per cylinder, the Porsche has four valves with vario cam), the Porsche is a 4.5 liter motor whereas the VW is a 4.2 liter, both have aluminum heads, but the VW has a cast iron block whereas the Porsche has an aluminum block (with dry sump lubrication!) and pistons, the VW is running an 11:1 compression ratio while the Porsche has an 11.5:1 ratio, and the list goes on. You can be forgiven for thinking they were the same, though, as just about everyone seems to think the same thing. The V6, however, is a different story. It's pretty much the same 3.2 liter unit you see in the R32 and V6 Toureg. Most of the other similarities between the Tourege and Cayenne revolve around the platform itself. Strip the body panels off, and you would see the same unibody substructure. Transmission and driveline parts are similar, but still not identical.

-In case you are wondering, the only reason I know all of this is because I spent a year of my life selling Volkswagens. I know more about VWs than I ever really wanted to learn, and the thought of attending another VW training class makes me want to jump off a cliff. But I digress...

-As far as magazines go, I like the writing style in Car and Driver the best. Road and Track and Motor trend are both good, but they are just too nice to really slam a car like C&D often does. I like the fact that C&D will really rag on some manufacturer's car, but two pages later you'll see an add from the same company an article just threw down on. They must not be too awful biased by ad money. I like the artsy set up of Automobile, but I think ol' David E. Davis may have gone a little soft. He and the rest of the editing crew are WAY into this SUV and pick up thing. Sorry, I'm a car guy, and nothing could bore me more than an SUV comparo. I think Automobile probably has more truck articles than any of the big magazines now. And I LIKE when magazines pick a finishing order for a test. Automobile doesn't seem to want to do that. They do it when forced, but really want the audience to "read between the lines." And Consumer Reports (I'm surprised no one mentioned them yet), although also too soft for my tastes, is worth looking at for unbiased reliability ratings. And they take it pretty easy on their test cars. I'd say their acceleration figures are closest to what real people will get out of their own vehicles. And of course there's the benefit of reading about their take on blenders and vaccume cleaners in the same issue. But I guess we can't consider them a car magazine, per- sey.

-And the Euro magazines like "Top Gear" and "Car" are absolutely awesome. I truthfully like them better than any U.S. magazines. I just wish subscriptions to them were not so expensive from way over here.

I like the fact that C&D will really rag on some manufacturer's car, but two pages later you'll see an add from the same company an article just threw down on. They must not be too awful biased by ad money.

On their C/D 10 best magazine they make fun of the GTO alot because of its poor sales, then pontiac has a full page ad for it...it made me wonder whether anybody at GM even reads auto magazines...

as for BMW, C/D absolutely loves bmw's and really puts them up as the company others strive to achieve...personally, never having driven anything other than a 330ci, I tend to agree

Well NISSANSPDR b/c of those pics i think i might pick up a "Car magazine issue". MclarenF1 i thought Topgear was just i show didn' knwo they did a mgazine also. As for M/T i quit looking/reading there magazine after they gave the COTY to the Toyota Prius. Not that i don't like the car but compared to the Evo8 and the WRX Sti come 'on.

Well NISSANSPDR b/c of those pics i think i might pick up a "Car magazine issue". MclarenF1 i thought Topgear was just i show didn' knwo they did a mgazine also.

Yea...you dont even have to buy it (it's UK..expensive at 8 bux) but just look thru it at your local Barnes & Noble or Books-A-Million...I dont know if Borders carries it...you'll see some of the best car photography IMHO. Yea Top Gear has it's show and a mag...so you can get more Tiff Needell if you want and some Jeremy Clarkson antics to boot!

I'd say our local hastings would have it. They have a very wide variety of books/magazines. I've seen a view euro car mags over there b4 so next time i'll be sure to take a peek.

EVO is probably the best mag i've ever read!!

I don't like Car and Driver because they're European brown nosers. If you read the magazine you get the feeling that "if it isn't from Europe it isn't worth our time." It doesn't matter if it's the new GTO, Mustang, Corvette, Charger, Viper, ect they aren't European so they don't matter. They praise these cars and give reviews for BMW and other cars that have base prices of over $50,000. If you're looking for a new car don't read Car and Driver because to them the best buy is a sporty European car that cost as much as a house.

The best car magazine to me is 5.0 & SuperFords. The Babe of the Month on the very last page is a good reason alone.

^^^
If you wanna go look at girls, grab a playboy magazine man.

Playboy doesn't have a hot girl on a hot Mustang.

I don't like Car and Driver because they're European brown nosers. If you read the magazine you get the feeling that "if it isn't from Europe it isn't worth our time." It doesn't matter if it's the new GTO, Mustang, Corvette, Charger, Viper, ect they aren't European so they don't matter. They praise these cars and give reviews for BMW and other cars that have base prices of over $50,000. If you're looking for a new car don't read Car and Driver because to them the best buy is a sporty European car that cost as much as a house.



Ummm. I don't know if you noticed, but 4 of C&D's top ten cars are American. The Mustang GT, Dodge Magnum, Corvette, and 300/300C are all on the list. The C6 Corvette also beat out the 997 in a recent comparo. In fact, the only European cars on their most recent list are the BMW 3-series/M3, and the MB SLK350. I don't understand how you can say that C&D doesn't like American cars when they give such great reviews of the Corvette/Z06, they built up the Ford GT more then any other magazine.

C&D has admitted numerous times that price isnt that big of a consideration in their comparos. A perfect example of this is when they compared the Ferrari 612, DB9, Continental GT, and CL600. The Ferrari costs ~$100,000 more then the rest, but it still won. They also compared a $100,000 Porsche GT3 with a $150,000 Ford GT with a $200,000 Ferrari 360 CS. Price, while factored into their comparisons, is rarely the deciding factor. They like cars based on how how much fun they have while driving them. More and more, C&D is being directed towards the automotive enthusiast, and less and less to the average consumer.

I also wouldn't go so far as to say that they only like European cars, they like Honda/Acura alot too. The TSX, RL, and Accord (which has been on the list since forever) are all also on the top 10.

I don't like Car and Driver because they're European brown nosers. If you read the magazine you get the feeling that "if it isn't from Europe it isn't worth our time." It doesn't matter if it's the new GTO, Mustang, Corvette, Charger, Viper, ect they aren't European so they don't matter. They praise these cars and give reviews for BMW and other cars that have base prices of over $50,000. If you're looking for a new car don't read Car and Driver because to them the best buy is a sporty European car that cost as much as a house.

The best car magazine to me is 5.0 & SuperFords. The Babe of the Month on the very last page is a good reason alone.


I think you're being just a little unfair. Car and Driver loved the C5 Corvette, and seems to like the C6 even more. They gave the CTS V a pretty good reccomendation, and they talk very highly of the new Mustang. Look at the February issue, and you'll even see that they gave the V6 model a pretty good write up. They spoke well of the Mach 1, and always gave the LT1 through LS1 Comaros a good rating, even up until the day GM killed production. They like the Viper too, but truthfully admit that its probably not the best daily driver in the world. On the other hand, notice that their view on BMW has changed a bit here in the post Bangle days. And they don't hesitate to rip on "IDrive" all day long.

It seems like everyone gets all up tight about C&D's preference for European cars. I bet if you had the access to cars that they have, though, and drove all the cars with an open mind, you'd end up developing a European preference too. Sorry, but the Europeans build some damn fine cars (but yes, I know they are usually way expensive). And C&D gives pretty fair ratings on the occasions when they do test econo cars. But let's face it- Honda Civic/ Dodge Neon comparisons don't sell magazines like a super car shoot out.

And come on. You complain that Car and Driver is biased, so you read "5.0 and SuperFords" magazine? Oh yeah, I bet they aren't biased at all. Maybe for even more unbiased articles you can check out "Super Chevy." I'm sure they don't exhibit any brand preferences. I understand reading these magazines if you're a hard core Ford or Chevy enthusiast, but they are just way too specialized for a fair general magazine comparison.

And as for the girls posing on Mustangs- well, you got me there. Seems as good a reason for reading a magazine as I've ever heard.

I post my opinion and suddenly I'm a marked man.

Anyway, I read Car & Driver and find little quotes and such that give me that impression about them. One time they were putting a Corvette against a Porshe and BMW I think. The Corvette put down better numbers and they said "our European readers will be surprised with these results...we don't blame them." They acted like it was shocking a Corvette was able to out perform a European in its class. It's little things here and there that give me that impression about them.

Also, for their 10 Best List they put family cars in there that cost upwards of 100 grand. To me, if it's the best car in its class then the price better be low. European cars cost more and they're praising an $80,000 BMW against other American cars that are under $50,000. When they do things like this the European does look like a better car and it should be. If I'm going to put that much money down for a four door family car it better be good.

Well, for years it seemed like C&D was in BMW's back pocket (remember the long stretch where the BMW Z3, 3 series, and 5 series were all in the Ten Best?) but that's settled down these days. I attribute it mostly to Csaba Csere getting old and losing his stranglehold on the mag.

Now, Road & Track, that's a good magazine. They have a very classy approach to reviews and articles, and their Salon series of articles is absolutely to die for (especially when written by contributing writers Phil Hill or Paul Frere). Peter Egan, long time editor, is a sports car enthusiast bar none. I still get a smile everytime I read his old editorial on classic cars on winter nights.

Automobile is the magazine I read for cold, hard, news. David E. Davis and his crew have devoted themselves to ripping the industry a new one. Just read Robert Cumberford's monthly "design analysis" column to see just how much bitterness these guys have and how freely they throw it around. They're fair, and are just as willing to speak compliments as they are hurl insults, but for the jaded automotive public there's no better representative than Automobile.

Also, for their 10 Best List they put family cars in there that cost upwards of 100 grand. To me, if it's the best car in its class then the price better be low. European cars cost more and they're praising an $80,000 BMW against other American cars that are under $50,000. When they do things like this the European does look like a better car and it should be. If I'm going to put that much money down for a four door family car it better be good.

I thought that they had a rule that the car on the top 10 cars was 2.5 X the average price of a car bought in America, coming out to $70,000ish, so for as long as I've been reading it, they've never had a $100,000+ car on the list. I've only had my subscription to C&D for a coule of years or so now, but I honestly can't remember when they pitted a $80,000 BMW against a $50,000 American built car. They generally keep cars in the same general price range in comparos. They might venture around $10,000 or so (exception is higher end sports cars), but the amounts you listed seem to be exaggerated, alot. I'm really interested in knowing what cars they compared that were so different in price.

Remember, C&D wasn't the only mag that loves BMW. I've read countless articles in magazines from both the US and GB talking about how great the E39 5-series was, how great the E46 3-series is, and how great the E90 3-series and E60 M5 will be.

I've only had my subscription to C&D for a coule of years or so now, but I honestly can't remember when they pitted a $80,000 BMW against a $50,000 American built car.

Back in the 60's, they pitted a Ferrari GTO against a Pontiac GTO. Is that good enough?

did america produce a car that cost the same as the GTO did back then?
the whole unbalanced price thing is crap, by the way.
in most cases, the modern car magazine will compare cars with similar character/purpose/type.
hence an elise (£20-30,000) gets compared to everything from similar priced cars to things costing 5-6 times as much.
you don't see us complaining when the british lotus elise gets comapred to cars costing more do you....?

You can't trust any mag, period.

No magazines results are set in stone. You have to take them all with a grain of salt. They just give you an idea of somewhat how that car performs. You can't just go around quoting magazines. And to that one guy..the cobra you were talking about was the 99. That's the reason there was no 2000 cobra. Then when the 2001 came out, which was what the 99 was supposed to be..it wasn't competitive enough anymore. So they took 2002 off to make the 03/04 cobra.