Cancer=Population Control?

my grandmother has a brain tumor and is going through the chemotherapy in attempts to shrink her tumor. as many of you know, chemotherapy does not help 100% of the time. you can see in her skull where the tumor has deformed it, rather disheartening i might add, but it has made me think.

with humans repoducing at increasing rates, and the size of our world remaining the same, it makes me think if _______(insert your higher being here as not to start a religious debate)put cancer and other diseases into the mix to create a population control of sorts.

i do not want to sound inhumane but how good off would we be if we found a cure to those diseases. i know it is a different story when it happens to someone that you know and love, see above, but that has not caused me to change my view on the subject. i just wanted to see what others thought.

Population control is already in place both in nature (Tsunami) and from people (China's one child policy). Add to that the continuing evolution of science and high yield farming etc. there is no reason we cannot continue to expand across the earth with a much higher density than now.

Japan is a good lesson in this. Strong economy, healthy diet, fantastic international reputation and a very dense population.

Imagine if we have another world war in the next 50 years. See how that changes your tune.

:)

there is no reason we cannot continue to expand across the earth with a much higher density than now.


There is a very good reason. When that happens, we will have wiped out 20-50% of all species on the planet. No thanks.

Cancer isn't a disease, and it can't really be seen as a mechanism of population control. HIV and toberculosis, on the other hand, act very much like population control mechanisms. In fact, if something like ebola were to ever hit a major city and wasn't quarantined immediately, the carnage would be unimaginable. Kinda scary to think about.

And you really think humans are going to give two shits about wiping out species? How many have we made extinct already? And on the flip side of the coin, couldn't the destruction of these species be seen as progress? Any animal that can't adapt and survive at the same rate of us gets obliterated in our path?

Japan? Strong economy? :rofl: :rolleyes: 15-20 years ago maybe, these days it's hanging on by the molecules on the tip of its fingernails. Bad example Ozwald.


Enough being pedantic....... Population control is something that can only be done by people, nature is too unreliable really, I'm really not sure how many are killed by disorders (Can't call cancer a disease, because it's not one), but given the current birth/death rate, I doubt we're at any risk of over-population

If anything cancer would be a limiting factor in age, not sheer population mass.

Most cancer developes from the mutation of self-replicating cells. If you make a copy of a piece of paper, it's not going to be as high quality as the original. Do this many times utlizing the copies you have already made and before long the paper becomes utterly unreadable. And when the cells of your body duplicate themselves before they die, the same error happens. Thus you see higher rates of degenerative cancer as age progresses. Eventually we would all die of cancer, if it wasn't for sheer old age that got us first.

If all of the world were as overpopulated as we are in these highly developed countries I could see where you were going with this. But the only problem I have with it is cancer can be found in members of small secluded tribes in Africa (for example) so I dont think its _______'s way of controling the population, now here in the US I think the government causes cancer to rid themselves of people they see as a threat j/k ....is that a black helicopter i see in the sky? DAMNIT THERE HERE!!!...

BTW sorry to hear about your grandma man, I have a friend who i just watched struggle through lukemia (sp?) she made it through but it was tough to see her go through it so just keep your head up and I wish her the best of luck man.

Japan? Strong economy? :rofl: :rolleyes: 15-20 years ago maybe, these days it's hanging on by the molecules on the tip of its fingernails.

Even though Sony, Honda, Nintendo, Mitsubishi, and many other companies that we get lots of stuff from are based in Japan.


There is a very good reason. When that happens, we will have wiped out 20-50% of all species on the planet. No thanks.

No they wouldn't be wiped out. Most of the animals in danger would be put out of harms way into zoos.

In fact, if something like ebola were to ever hit a major city and wasn't quarantined immediately, the carnage would be unimaginable. Kinda scary to think about.

If ebola became air born and got loose in New York or L.A. and wasn't quarantined, then the world population would die or most of North America if it wasn't transported across the ocean.


With all of this said I don't see cancer as a population control. How is most cancer formed? Sadly, when people smoke, dip, drink, and other things they increase their risk of cancer. It's true that some cancers come up on perfectly healthy people but others bring it onto themselves.

I do think the virus is the population control though. We are not totally over-populated just yet. If ebola broke out in New York it would spread like a wild fire down the east coast because it's very dense down it. For the virus to get to L.A. it'd have to cross the mid-west. If you've ever looked at a density map you'll see that the America mid-west is spread out and there's a whole lot more space between major cities.

Sometime in the future though the America mid-west will be as dense as what the east and west coast are now. If a deadly virus broke out it'd have a very easy time getting from place to place. Europe as dense as it is would be a perfect target for a deadly virus outbreak. Africa, which has many of these deadly viruses, is like the mid-west. It's very open and spread out which makes it very hard, if not impossible, for most viruses to break out.

A movie that I think is great and shows you that this is possible and very scary is Outbreak. It's about the ebola virus getting into America and a small town has to be quarantined off to keep in from spreading.

Japan was once a stellar example of a strong economy, back when Growth was reguarly between 5 and 10%. That was two decades ago, the growth slowed down dramatically in the 90's because people had invested too much, back in 1995 after the earthquake, the economy actually came to something of a standstill, look what it did to Barings bank/Nick Leeson to see what I mean. Then there was the crisis of 1998 and NOW we have a slowed US/Euro/Asian market as well, which means Japan plunges further into debt and still can't get growth to pick up, the ageing population probably doesn't help either.


Yep that's one mighty strong economy. :rolleyes:

Sure they have a few companies doing well, Toyota especially, but more and more are falling on thier faces (Nintendo, Nissan and Mitsubishi anyone?)

And you really think humans are going to give two shits about wiping out species? How many have we made extinct already? And on the flip side of the coin, couldn't the destruction of these species be seen as progress? Any animal that can't adapt and survive at the same rate of us gets obliterated in our path?

I agree that most people don't give a shit about the destruction of a lot of the worlds' species, but that sucks. The only organisms that can possilby adapt quickly enough to human activities in order to survive are microbial, because their generation time is so short. Adaptation by other organisms requires thousands of years, at least. I don't think that's progress. We have a responsibility to protect biodiversity that comes with the power to destroy it.

No they wouldn't be wiped out. Most of the animals in danger would be put out of harms way into zoos

Just like the 10% of worlds' species that have been wiped out in the last century, that were supposed to be in zoos. :disappoin

sorry to hear about your grandma, that sucks. my sister, 16, broke her leg two years ago, and upon recieving the x-rays, the doc found cancer spots around her knee. shit like that happens, all you can do is stick it out, and accept the outcome.

as far as disease and other things being a population control issue, why not eliminate the problem before it starts. china has the one baby rule. i believe, in america, you should be required to have a liscense to reproduce. lets face it- there are just some certain individuals who should not reproduce.

for example, my dad and i own a landscaping company. you should see some of the people i've had come to work for me! i had a guy, a couple months ago, that was just flat out sorry. he's telling me at lunch how if he has so many kids, his wife can sit on her ass all day and collect from the government. and some other shit about if they dont get married the mom gets some other check.... they know how to take advantage of the system and that got me pretty angry. thats soooo illegal and just shows how people take advantage of our system. people who think its okay to be sorry and not to have to work for anything, that think shit should be handed to them are the ones that dont need to reproduce. they are not worthwhile and not productive towards society. trash breeds trash, its a never ending cycle. i ended up firing the S.O.B after he told me he was getting his class D liscense and i call over to his house and his dumbass wife says "oh, he's sleeping, i'll wake him up." i said never mind and he can get his check friday.

there are many idiviuals like that. people that are just flat out lazy and useless. if there were a set bar to which people would have to meet in order to have kids, our world would probably be better off, by the time they get a disease, its too late. preventative measures.

I think the earth needs population control. I remember in high school our social studies teacher was telling us how they predicted the population to hit 6 billion within a couple years. Well, if you look now, at the reate its been going, we will hit 7 billion within a coulple more decades, then 8 billion before 35 years, 9 billion before 50 years, 10 billion before 60 years.. where are we going to fit all those damn people? Imagine how many unproductive people there will be. I don't want to see all of earth populated by people. What is going to happen to the rainforests?

You people need to realize though that it's not in the U.S. where the population is getting out of control. The U.S. is actually growing at a nice rate and isn't out of hand.

The areas where the population is shooting up is in Africa, Asia, the Middle East, and areas around there. The thing is guys can't take a few quarters to the local gas station to get a condom. If they can't do that then it's really hard to go buy a box at a store. Also the women can't get the pill or any other form of birth control. The way to reduce the population would be better and more birth control methods in developing nations.

and the rainforests dont mean shit. think about it- 70% of the earth is covered in water.
30% is land
about 15-20% of that land is desert or snow

cut them suckers down! most of our air comes from plant life floating in the ocean. i just finished oceanography class and we did a whole segment on this.

and the condom deal is true. AIDS is one of the most common STDs in those countries.... and its mutating into different strains everyday. in a way that in itself is a form of population control. no doubt. the problem is they cant die fast enough, or pick up some change for a rubber or keep thier dick in thier pants and thier legs closed.

More than 15-20% are desert. And it's growing. See below. How useful will the oceans of the world be to water the plants we need for food? The oceans give us the air we need but at the rate we polute them how long will it be before they cannot sustain plant life?Already one third of the world is considered desert and many deserts are expanding. The Gobi desert in China has expanded every decade since the 1950s. In a 5 year period ('94-'99) the Gobi desert expanded over 20,000 square miles . In 5 years that's an area larger than New Jersey and Massachusetts combined! More importantly, the desert is about 150 miles from Beijing and still expanding.The Sahara desert in Northern Africa has spread South over 250,000 square miles in the past 50 years. As it is, the Sahara is the largest desert in the world at 3.5 million square miles, larger than the continental United States

do you realize how much polution volcanoes put out when they erupt? sulfur, carbon and all kinds of other pollutants are released in the air. i know this thread is about pop. control, so i didnt mean to take us off topic with the whole earth thing.

btw- nice chevelle.

and the rainforests dont mean shit. think about it- 70% of the earth is covered in water.
30% is land
about 15-20% of that land is desert or snow

cut them suckers down! most of our air comes from plant life floating in the ocean.

Yeah, and half of all the species on the planet live in tropical and sub-tropical areas. Lose 50% of species = lose half of all our resources towards fighting disease. Tropical areas are the most dense, meaning those species have had billions of years to evolve mechanisms for self defense against large numbers of other species. And considering something like 60-70% of pharmaceuticals are derived from living species, I think that's reason enough to protect the rainforests.

Whew lots of topics here.

Start with rain forests - by estimate they provide approximately 1/3 of our oxygen supply and a multitude of drugs, so bad idea to chop them down.

The oceans do provide a lot of air for us, so pollution in the long run will be very bad. (And avoiding getting into the over fishing discussion)

Add to all of this the massive increase in population, all those new people sucking down the oxygen, and we could be in a world of hurt, air-wise. I don't think there will be much notice either. Just one day people will begin to die off/suffocate in certain regions. The weak will go first, so you'll see the very young and the very old suffering and dying.

Cancer population control? I don't think so since it's a genetic mutation and not a communicable disease. But think of this: humans evolve. So for every million cases of cancer, maybe one person will develop a new genetic benefit. Just a thought.

Now Ebola, AIDS, West Nile, and even the Flu; those are things that may turn out to be population controlling, and the flu has in the past. Already, millions have died in Africa from AIDS, and it's only going to get worse.

In studying the life cycles of animals, it can be seen that there is a normal up and down population curve. Lemmings are a good example that people are familiar with.

Humans have been on an upward swing for quite some time now; between advances in medicine and our ability to adapt and overcome obstacles, build things, etc we have broken out of nature's usual up and down population cycle. The question now is: Will our advances outpace our population, or will the population grow so fast that some epidemic (AIDS?) can't be cured or stopped, causing a huge die-off of people?

It remains to be seen.

And IIwhitexb0iII, didn't mean to be insensitive about your grandma. Best wishes for her and you. Cancer is a genetic mutation, and can be brought about by numerous things, including things like tobacco use, radiation, or exposure to small airborne particles such as asbestos. A friend's father had an inoperable tumor in his head so I know what you're going through.

my grandmother has a brain tumor and is going through the chemotherapy in attempts to shrink her tumor. as many of you know, chemotherapy does not help 100% of the time. you can see in her skull where the tumor has deformed it, rather disheartening i might add, but it has made me think.

with humans repoducing at increasing rates, and the size of our world remaining the same, it makes me think if _______(insert your higher being here as not to start a religious debate)put cancer and other diseases into the mix to create a population control of sorts.

i do not want to sound inhumane but how good off would we be if we found a cure to those diseases. i know it is a different story when it happens to someone that you know and love, see above, but that has not caused me to change my view on the subject. i just wanted to see what others thought.
If I marry someone and have two kids, the population does not increase on the count of myslef. If I have 1 kid, it decreases in the future. The answer to over population is not disease fortunately, it's wisdom and restraint.

If I marry someone and have two kids, the population does not increase on the count of myslef. If I have 1 kid, it decreases in the future. The answer to over population is not disease fortunately, it's wisdom and restraint.

so you are saying that since you and your wife are going to die one day, the population isnt increasing if you have two kids? You can't count yourself as Zero because you are going to die one day. Everyone alive is going to die within the next 120 years. That doesnt make the population zero. Until you are dead, you count. And remember that your kids are expected to have kids too, and their kids will have kids, who will have kids who will have kids.....

You and your wife have:
one kid, and another kid, and those 2 have:
two kids, and two more kids, and those 4 have:
four kids, and four more kids, and those 8 have:
eight kids and eight more kids, and so on and so on.

Its like the story about the peasant and the king, and the rice. And thats whats happening in the world right now. I predict there will be 10 Billion people on earth in 60 years. the history of mankind has been pretty long, but I think the future of mankind is going to have to reach stages that have only been imagined in movies. There will have to be population control, we will have to start pulling peoples' plugs, killing people with certain diseases, controlling birth rates and a whole lot of other things we all would hate to imagine, but look at the facts. We are going to destroy our habitat, EASILY within the next 100 years. We won't be able to live here with so many people unless we do something about population control, or else resort back to less modern ways.

Yeah, my bad. What can I say, I was tired (?).

Let me start off by saying I'm receiving my BS in Psychology in 2 months and 3 weeks. Population control is already in place via society. Back in the day, lets say mid 1800's, if you graphed out the population, it would be shaped like a triangle, youngest at the bottom, oldest at the top. Way more younger people than older people. However, with society the way that it is today, although there is a higher population, not as many children are being born. It is estimated that by the year 2050, the so called "pyramid" will turn into a rectangle. (If you need a visualization, PM/IM me and I'll show you what I mean.) People are having less children, but science and technology is keeping them alive longer. Population control is in place. Second, although we are finding cures to some diseases...years ago it was normal for people to die from a simple bacterial or viral infection, but now, hell, its very normal for people to miss a day or 2 of work and be just fine. Diseases mutate. Pretty much everything that we have now, mutated from something else. Everything in nature adapts to survive, survival of the fittest. So tomorrow a cure for AIDS may come out, but a new disease will surface, and we'll have to find out how to combat that. I'm not an expert but I do know a bit on this subject.

**the statistics I stated are for the US...sorry for any confusion**

Hey Sexy, first of all congrats on the (impending) degree.

As far as the pyramid/rectangle example, was that for the US, or worldwide? I know that many 3rd world countries still have a pyramidal population graph, and that some European countries have an inverted pyramid, with population actually declining. Is there a website where these figures could be viewed?

doesnt the idea of population control by a higher being completely undermine the basis of your higher beings? most dieties arent vengeful, atleast the ones i have an understanding of arent. God, for example, is supposed to have an undying love for man. why, if said creatures existed, would they control what they are supposed to serve and love. doesnt make sense. cancer and natural phenomena arent put in place by some magical being in the sky. they have scientific origins are, at best, completely random in occurence. you dont get cancer cause you skipped church on monday, and you dont die cause some mythical creature wants there to be exactly 6.2 billion people in the world.

which is a point in itself, these forces of nature have been around since the dawn of man. however, the world's population has been increasing exponentially since the iron age. if they were population control of a higher nature, why would we, humans, be allowed to reach the numbers we have already?...

Let me start off by saying I'm receiving my BS in Psychology in 2 months and 3 weeks. Population control is already in place via society. Back in the day, lets say mid 1800's, if you graphed out the population, it would be shaped like a triangle, youngest at the bottom, oldest at the top. Way more younger people than older people. However, with society the way that it is today, although there is a higher population, not as many children are being born. It is estimated that by the year 2050, the so called "pyramid" will turn into a rectangle. (If you need a visualization, PM/IM me and I'll show you what I mean.) People are having less children, but science and technology is keeping them alive longer. Population control is in place. Second, although we are finding cures to some diseases...years ago it was normal for people to die from a simple bacterial or viral infection, but now, hell, its very normal for people to miss a day or 2 of work and be just fine. Diseases mutate. Pretty much everything that we have now, mutated from something else. Everything in nature adapts to survive, survival of the fittest. So tomorrow a cure for AIDS may come out, but a new disease will surface, and we'll have to find out how to combat that. I'm not an expert but I do know a bit on this subject.

In Africa, that's exactly what the population graphs look like, the pyramidal shape. More importantly, in India, 40% of the population is under the age of 15, and there's already 1 billion people living in India. So India's population is expected to double in the next 20 years. It's only in the developed nations where the population growth rates are slowing, and I guess China as well for obvious reasons. That being said, the population explosion that is set to occur in the next 50 years will create a situation more conducive to a large scale biological epidemic, which is bad bad news for everyone.

Yes; with very high population density, lots of very young children and a low standard of living, the situation will be ripe for an epidemic of scary proportions.

Yes; with very high population density...the situation will be ripe for an epidemic of scary proportions.

It's already happening right now. The following are just a few of the viruses spreading around the world. They have killed several million people already and a couple are close to a major outbreak.

1. AIDS
2. SARS
3. West Nile
4. Mad Cow

The population density is also making things much worse than what they really could be. If the tsunami in the Indian ocean would of happened 100 years ago instead of when it did, would 100,000 people died?

SARS, West Nile, and Mad Cow, I would not put them in the category with AIDS, but I understand your point.

To me, AIDS is the most advanced epidemic ever, for the fact that it takes so long to kill people. Which gives it more time to spread. At the rate it is going, eventually everybody on earth will have AIDS/HIV at one point. Unless we find a cure. Or unless all the people with AIDS die before it can be transmitted to anyone else. Which is (to say the least) unlikely.

But back on topic, could it all be population control by a higher being? Thats a real hard question, but its not to say it couldn't be. It wouldn't be the first time (according to christianity). Remember the story about Noah and his Ark? Not exactly the same, but its along the same lines. Higher being takes out population. But I don't think anyone said its because of the individual's mistakes like because they skipped church. It could just be an unbiased way to control the masses.

IMO, it's a matter of time until we have some pandemic like the bubonic plague in the Middle Ages; it may have already begun with AIDS. When something like that occurs, it will "solve" the problem of overpopulation for quite some time.

SARS, West Nile, and Mad Cow, I would not put them in the category with AIDS, but I understand your point.

Well a couple of years ago when SARS was in the news all the time and the U.S. was trying to keep it out of the country I thought it was pretty bad. I also put the others in because they're becoming a problem and like AIDS they'll kill you.

IMO, it's a matter of time until we have some pandemic like the bubonic plague in the Middle Ages; it may have already begun with AIDS. When something like that occurs, it will "solve" the problem of overpopulation for quite some time.

Well AIDS isn't that bad yet. The black plague killed 1 in every 3 people if I'm correct. Also the black plague was spread a whole lot easier that what AIDS is.

Right now the West Nile virus is spread a little bit like the black plague but I don't think it's as deadly. It will kill you though if you don't stop it in the early stages.

I also did a research paper on the black plague during my sophmore year. There are several doctors and researchers who believe AIDS is the new black plague. They think it took the plague several centuries to mutate and finally rise again.

The black plague was able to do its damage due to the living conditions of the time.

The current "living conditions" in many African countries include the man of the family having multiple partners (including prostitutes) and spreading AIDS that way; millions have already died from AIDS throughout the African continent, and many many millions more are infected. But you don't hear much in the news about it and I wonder why that is.

Cigarettes are population control.

Death due to cancer at a young age helps control things. Cancer or other deaths at like age 76 instead of age 87 isn't that big of a factor. Age is the determinimng factor of whether disease deaths affect populations. Disease deaths at age 30-40 would influence national population figures for sure.

None of all the other stuff about resources, extinction or any of it can be affected by any of us. You're going to get up tomorrow, go to work in traffic and hassle your way through the day to drag your tired ass home forever, day after day. You ain't gonna have time to waste fretting about something in another hemisphere sinced you're too damned busy living your daily life and dodging incoming.

The only way the human race will truly progress is when we get the hell off the planet and establish colonies off-world. I have cancer, by the way.
http://www.animationlibrary.com/Animation11/Transportation/UFOs/spaceship_2.gif

Damn, hate to hear you've got the big "C". Hopefully it's a good prognosis.

think Aids and HIV is nature's population control 'system' , since many people in africa who barely survives the day 'cause of starvation, nature reduces the number through these dieseases