91 honda civic starting stalling problem

I have a 91 honda civic dx, 4 cylinder, 1.5 liter, fuel-injected, manual.
Yesterday, I it caused me some trouble. When I accelerated, the car did kind of a sputter/jerk. It did not want to accelerate. Then, I was stopped at a light. When the light turned green, I started to accelerate, but the car stalled. I was able to start it up again and get it home. When I was pulling up into my driveway, it felt like it was going to stall so I quickly let off the accelerator and pushed in on the clutch. The car struggled to keep running. It sputtered and then finally died. I am glad I got it home.
Now, this morning, i went outside to see if it would start and it would not. It cranks, but will not fire up. I do not know much about cars so I would appreciate any help. We replaced the fuel filter about a year and a half ago, as well as the the distibutor cap and rotor. We did this because my car was having an intermittent starting problem in the heat. Replacing these things did not help. What eventually fixed the problem was when we replaced the main relay. But now I am getting starting problems again. But I don't think it would be the main relay again because the car won't start at all this time. I thought the main relay was when the car would start intermittently.
So, I just wanted to let people know what we had recently replaced. Please help!
Thanks.

Start with checking the distributer cap, plugs, wires, and rotor button. Have you run it hot at all cause i had a prob with that one time and i fouled out some plugs?

Hey Scott,

Thanks for your response. I actually did run the car hot, if I am understanding what you are asking. It was snowing a couple days ago. I was trying to get up a steep hill in the snow. I was in 2nd gear, but my speedomter said I was going about 40 mph. I barely got up the hill. Do you think that is what caused the problem? I probably shouldn't have done it, but I needed to get home. I didn't think it would cause a problem. Is it my spark plugs?
Thanks a lot.

It's possible, see if the plugs are black and oily on the end, if this is the case then it is possibe. but check your distributer cap, and rotor button too, if you find the prob either way if you havn't had a tune up in a while i would suggest a new distributer cap, rotor button, plugs, and wires. however if the problem is not in the spark. then start checking the fuel filter and then the fuel pump if it is'nt fixed by that point. but its always good to start with the easy stuff to get too so you can either rule that out or find the prob easy.

Scott,

We checked the spark plugs today. They were in fairly poor shape. A couple of them were black and oily like you said. We tested the plugs and they all sparked. However, we replaced the spark plugs anyway. The car still would not start, though. To check the fuel, we disconnected the fuel line, the one that goes back toward the fuel pump. When I turned the key, gas did spurt out. So, apparently, the fuel filter and fuel pump are working, unless there is something I am missing. Is that what you would say? Do you know of anything else it might be? Should I still go ahead and replace the spark plug wires? Could it be the distributor cap and rotor again, even though we just replaced them a year and a half ago? I will await your response. Thanks.

how strong was the spark?

Civickiller,

I am not sure how strong the spark was. I was starting the car, while my friend was doing the spark test. He just told me that there was spark. I believe it was a good spark.

After I posted my first message today, I went and changed the spark plug wires too. They needed to be done anyway. So, it has new spark plugs and spark plug wires. The distributor cap and rotor were replaced a year and a half ago, along with fuel filter, main relay, and battery.
The car will crank, but not fire up. Does anoyone have any other ideas? Could the timing belt have jumped and thus now be off? When we tried to start the car today, we had not tried in 3 days. The first time we tried today, the car seemed like it was trying to start. However, the 2nd and subsequent attempts, the car seemed to not want to start at all.
Well, I will await any responses. Thanks.

3 things to check when an engine wont fire. fuel, spark, and compression. you have spark, so carry on with the other two. And by fuel, i mean actually knowing that the injector is spraying fuel. one way to see if your getting fuel is to make sure the plugs are clean, crank the engine, pull the plugs out and smell each one of them to see if it smells like gas. if not..... you get the point. as for compression, try to hold a hand over the spark plug whole (with the plug out), while you have someone crank the engine. you should feel it shoot air out as they crank. do that to every cylinder. tell us what happens :thumbsup:

91civichatch2571,

Could you possibly tell me a little more in-depth on how to do the fuel injector test. I understand what you are saying on how to do the compression test, but not so sure about how to do the fuel test. Where are the fuel injectors located and how many of them are there? Thanks.

dude take off your distibuter cap and look and make sure your rotor didnt fall off. if its off, find the screw and put it back on, before you screw in the screw, put some threadlock on it to keep it from falling out again. if that doesnt work come back.

91civichatch2571,

Could you possibly tell me a little more in-depth on how to do the fuel injector test. I understand what you are saying on how to do the compression test, but not so sure about how to do the fuel test. Where are the fuel injectors located and how many of them are there? Thanks.
All you have to do is crank the engine (plugs and injectors still in) take out all of the spark plugs, and smell them to see if they smell like gas. Heres (http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/2gsm/fuel_and_emissions.htm) a site that will help you out on finding the injectors, and servicing the fuel system if needed. And heres (http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/2gsm/default.htm) the home page for that site, its a service manual for your car that will save your ass again and again.

try to check your fuel injectors.

Today, we did the tests with the spark plugs. When I took out the spark plugs and someone cranked the engine, air did blow out of the spark plug holes. That was the compression test.

Also, I smelled each spark plug. I believe I could smell some fuel on them. However, the plugs were not really liquidy or gassy. Still, they smelled a bit like fuel. So, does that mean that the fuel injectors are working correctly. By the way, the gas did smell a little gummy, almost like it was stale or something.

Also, I opened up the distributor to make sure the rotor was secure. It was secure.

We also took off the cover for the timing belt and the belt seems to be in good shape. It turns when we crank the engine. I don't know how to tell if it slipped off gear or something.

So, does anyone have any more ideas or thoughts as a result of this new information? Thanks.

did you gap the spark plugs properly?

Yes, we did gap the spark plugs correctly (.044).

If the screw comes off of the rotor, you don't get any spark.
He's got spark.
4DF

you should be able to smell the fuel clearly. Go to this (http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/2gsm/fuel_and_emissions.htm) page and go to number 11-100. check from 11-100 through 11-104. Its a fuel injector test. Im also curious as to what your fuel pressure is but im sure you have no tools to do that/ dont know how to do it. Your not getting any check engine light? no codes on the ecu? <~~~If you dont know how to do that, do a search on the forum for "check ecu" you'll find it. If your getting a code, it would be soooo much more helpful then us guessing for what to check next.

No, there is no check engine light when I turn the key or try to start the car. There is no red light flashing on the passenger side floor when we crank the engine (no ECU codes). I will still attempt to look at the fuel injectors.
Thanks.

I am going to go try to check the fuel injectors.

But, also, can someone tell me how to check to make sure the timing belt did not slip. It does spin when we crank the engine. But is there a way that I can check to make sure it is on time. And if I check and find that it is off time, would it be fairly easy for me to fix it and get it back on time. If so, how? Thanks.

OK, I myself did not check the fuel injectors or timing belt yet.

On Saturday, my neighbor came over to help me. What we did was we checked the fuel pressure at the fuel filter, where the line comes out of the filter. The car has plenty of fuel pressure there. We opened up the air intake chamber and my neighbor tried spraying some kind of starter fluid in there. He said that the car would start up at least for a second or two with this stuff. It didn't. So, he does not think that the fuel injectors are bad, or at least, are not the root problem. If they were the root problem, he said the car should have still started up for a second with that starter fluid. Is he right in saying this?

Also, he did not think the timing belt was slipped because he said it did not sound like it at all when we cranked the engine. He thought it should misfire out the exhaust or something like that. Perhaps he is mistaken when he says that. Is he?

Anyway, he then went ahead and checked the spark on the spark plug and wire and he said that it was getting a very weak spark. He is thinking that the spark is the problem. The spark plugs and wires are new and the plugs are gapped correctly. So, does anyone know what the issue could be with the spark? Would a weak spark really not cause the engine to start up at all? Is there something with the ignition coil inside the distibutor or the distributor itself? I await any insight as a result of this new information. Thanks a lot.

I just did a full tune-up on my accord and it ran great for all of 5 minutes. I've never had a problem with this car in 4 yrs. After i did the tune-up i started it and it ran great so i went in for the night. I came out the next morning and started her up and in 1 minute it sputtered and died, wouldn't start back up or even try to. I checked everything and i had no spark. So, i took the 2 wires off the coil and connected a light bulb to them and cranked the engine... bulb flashed while cranking which means the ECU and ignitor is good. I bought a new coil and put it in.... Bam... started right up.

Try the test... Worked for me.

weak spark is usually the coil. i had weak spark on my civic and had trouble starting it. once i replaced the coil, never had the problem again

Could someone please tell me how to get the rotor off of the distributor? I was trying to replace the ignition coil. I cannot find how to get the rotor off. Thanks.

Actually, disregard my last post about the rotor. Actually, I found that you do not have to take the rotor off to replace the coil. So, I put in a new coil and the car still will not start-it cranks but does not start. Does anybody have any more ideas? The coil was a Niehoff coil.

We replaced the spark plugs, spark plug wires, fuel filter, air filter, and ignition coil. Most of these needed to be done anyway. The distributor cap and rotor were replaced a year and a half ago.

The car does get fuel through the fuel filter at least. And my neighbor did not think the fuel injectors were the problem because the car would not even start up when he put some starter fluid into the air intake chamber. Any more ideas? Thanks.

Could someone please tell me how to get the rotor off of the distributor? I was trying to replace the ignition coil. I cannot find how to get the rotor off. Thanks.

If you have to, go ahead and take the whole distributor off so you can see everything and how it all goes together. I suggest you use a diagram though...
http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/2gsm/images/91-23-61.jpg
and some rotor reassembly info... http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/2gsm/images/91-23-62.jpg

I took the fuel injectors out a little while ago. They are very liquidy and smell like fuel. Is there a way to tell by looking at them if they are bad? Do I just replace them? Thanks.

i have seen a way to test injectors on the internet. I can't remember where it was, but i did a yahoo search on an engine swap and it was on one of the pages where if ya run into trouble after install check list. Seems like is was crx.org or zcsource.com, but i am not sure.

http://www.binghamtonlife.com/manual/2gsm/electrical.htm

Try here, see what you can find

Today, I attempted to check the fuel injectors. I took the air intake chamber off. Then, I cranked the engine while someone else looked at the injectors. He shined a flashlight down the air intake tube while I cranked the engine. He definitely saw a good amount of gas spraying from the main injector. He could not tell if the aux. injector was spraying fuel, as the main injector is above the aux. injector.

So, I have a couple of questions. Could we disconnect the main injector so that we can see if the aux. injector is working? Or is this even necessary? Should the main injector by itself be able to spray enough fuel to allow the engine to start (even without the aux. injector working)?

Also, at the bottom of the air intake tube, there was a pool of gas. Is this normal? Is there suppose to be gas pooled down there? Does this mean there is a problem?

Does anyone have any insight into this? I am thinking that if it is not the injectors, it must be the timing in the distributor or the timing belt skipping teeth. Thanks.

Nobody responded yet to my last post. But I have some new information anyway. We know at least one fuel injector is working. We think both of them are. So, I am getting fuel. I am also getting spark. I am also getting compression.

We replaced the spark plugs, spark plug wires, and ignition coil (3rd party brand). The distributor cap is only about a year and a half old, along with the rotor. They both appear to be in good shape and attached well. The distributor itself is firmly attached (not loose or anything). So, I don't think the timing is off in the distributor. The timing belt is fine and lined up correctly-the timing is not off. All of the marks line up where they should.

What else could the problem be? Could it be the igniter unit in the distributor even though we are getting spark? We are thinking that the problem may be a bad computer (ECU). One day, when we cranked the engine, no lights were flashing. Then, the other day, one light went on and then off. Is it normal for the ECU to flash one light when you first turn the key on? If so, why did it not do it the first times? Is there some sensor that could be causing the car to not start? I await any input. This car problem is really getting to be frustrating and I do not really have money to tow it to a mechanic and have him fix it. Thanks.

Nobody responded yet to my last post. But I have some new information anyway. We know at least one fuel injector is working. We think both of them are. So, I am getting fuel. I am also getting spark. I am also getting compression.

We replaced the spark plugs, spark plug wires, and ignition coil (3rd party brand). The distributor cap is only about a year and a half old, along with the rotor. They both appear to be in good shape and attached well. The distributor itself is firmly attached (not loose or anything). So, I don't think the timing is off in the distributor. The timing belt is fine and lined up correctly-the timing is not off. All of the marks line up where they should.

What else could the problem be? Could it be the igniter unit in the distributor even though we are getting spark? We are thinking that the problem may be a bad computer (ECU). One day, when we cranked the engine, no lights were flashing. Then, the other day, one light went on and then off. Is it normal for the ECU to flash one light when you first turn the key on? If so, why did it not do it the first times? Is there some sensor that could be causing the car to not start? I await any input. This car problem is really getting to be frustrating and I do not really have money to tow it to a mechanic and have him fix it. Thanks.

Yes this is normal for the ECU to do this. It seems like everything else seems to be working. You're still having trouble starting it? The dpfi is like an electronic carburetor where the main fuel injector sprays most of the fuel and the aux. one is just that aux. for more fuel when needed so that's all good. You may have flooded it. If the car won't stay running I'd say the dizzy is shot. I had a problem with my car like that. It just died one day and never would crank back up. I got a warranteed replacment dizzy and had it fitted but I had to pay for two tows to two different shops (one of which was only a mile further down the road and it was a $30 tow) all because the damn dizzy went out. I broke down right near the parts store and if I had known all this I could have saved over 100 bucks in towing and labor to have a distributor bolted on. I felt like an ass and didn't have my car for over 2 weeks.

aye if i were you i would get in your car and have someone tow you down the street and have you turn your key on and pop the clutch in like 2nd or 3rd gear it will start and try to keep it running then you can see if timing is bad or whatever because it will run bad its probably flooded so you should tow start it....

Hey my car was doin that, garage said said it could be the clutch and clutch cable the point of engagement has been automatically changing on mine

We replaced the spark plugs, spark plug wires, and ignition coil (3rd party brand). The distributor cap is only about a year and a half old, along with the rotor. They both appear to be in good shape and attached well. The distributor itself is firmly attached (not loose or anything). So, I don't think the timing is off in the distributor. The timing belt is fine and lined up correctly-the timing is not off. All of the marks line up where they should.


How are you sure it is not the timing belt? when mine went I losened the timing belt cover and it looked totally fine, but it was not, all the teeth on the belt had worn down and in some places were gone.

Well, we were pretty sure that the timing belt was still good. I guess some of the teeth could be worn out on it. It looked in good shape from what we could tell but I know that it could still actually be bad.
We saw that the marks on the timing belt were lined up where they should be. That is why we did not think that the timing belt was causing the starting problem.

And it turns out that the problem wasn't with the timing belt.

FINALLY, the car starts! I ran out of ideas and tools to troubleshoot the car. So, I decided to just take it to an independent honda shop near my house. They said they would diagnose it for about $40. And since I ran out of things to test and I did not have the tools to check some of the remaining possible causes of the starting problem, I decided to go ahead and have the car diagnosed. They have all the tools and $40 isn't too bad to pay for someone to diagnose the car. So, my friend towed me to the shop. And the mechanic called me in less than 24 hours and told me that they got the car running. It was a fairly simple problem. The mechanic told me that the car was flooded. What happened was that he said there was carbon buildup in the engine. It built up to the point of where it acted like a sponge and soaked up the gas, so the gas was not getting where it needed to. I don't know exactly how it works. But anyway, the guy told me he pinched the fuel line and opened the throttle up all the way and cranked the engine till it started. He advised me to go and get some 44K and put it in the gas tank. He said that it should eat up all the junk and buildup in the engine and should prevent this problem from happening again.

Of course, the mechanic had a list of about 50 other things that are wrong with my car: warped rotors, leaking water pump, damaged muffler, distributor having internal oil leak, the master cylinder leaking, etc... To fix all the stuff he told me needed fixing would have cost a couple thousand dollars. This would be more than what the car is worth. So, I will just deal with some of those problems as they come up. I might sell the car if too many problems arise. I may ask some more questions on this forum as to how to fix some of this stuff.

So, anyway, a long time of troubleshooting and this is what the problem was. It is good to troubleshoot what you can, but after a while, I would say to just pay $40 to have the car diagnosed for you if you can. Then, you can decide if you can fix it or want it fixed by the mechanic. And I did not even get charged for them "fixing" the car. They just included it with the cost of the diagnosis. So, I am glad that my car is working again. Thank you to everyone for your help. I'll probably be back for more help later. Also, maybe now this post will help other people diagnose their car problem if they have a similar one.

1991 honda civic

Couple thousand dollars...woh! I'm glad your car is starting. I've heard of people using seafoam to get rid of carbon build up. Replacing rotors and pad with Brembo blanks and metal master pads would only cost a couple hundred, maybe less. You can probably snag a master cylinder from a junkyard or from someone on here for cheap. The oil leaking by the distributor is probably the O-ring and only costs like 5 bucks to replace. You can get an aftermarket muffler that looks exactly like your stock muffler for maybe 40 bucks or less. I'd say the biggest issue is the waterpump leaking...

yeah i got 2 rotors pads and calipers for $150...turbo dynomax muff. $40, as for the water pump leak you would have to ask around.

Hey,

If you guys know where I can get that stuff for cheap, that would be great. I will check out places near my house, but if you guys know of an online source or somewhere like that to get cheap parts, let me know. That would be great to be able to get the 2 rotors and pads and calipers for $115.

Thanks,

1991 honda civic

Hey,

If you guys know where I can get that stuff for cheap, that would be great. I will check out places near my house, but if you guys know of an online source or somewhere like that to get cheap parts, let me know. That would be great to be able to get the 2 rotors and pads and calipers for $115.

Thanks,

1991 honda civic

Try Autozone or Advanced Auto if you want stock replacement rotors and pads. If you want to step up peformance wise, try www.summitracing.com

Yes, we did gap the spark plugs correctly (.044).


I had a simiular problem... i had recently washed my engine and there was water siting in the bottom of my distributer and as soon as i poped that off and dumped the little bit of water out, and wiped it out with a paper towel and WD-40... it fired right up.

GL