Automatic Transmission Service Day!!

Well boys and girls, today is the day I bite the bullet and take care of my tranny since I brought the truck home about 4 months ago. I shopped around, and no matter where I went, nobody could do a pan service (Gasket(s), Filter, top off with Dex-III) for less than $130 + tax. I am not experiencing any trouble at all, but at 140K miles, the fluid is starting to show a color slightly more orange than cherry red. It's still clean, smells fresh and not gritty. If it survives the pan service, I will take it in to have the system flushed out in another year/12k miles.

I went and got all of the materials, including a fully synthetic ATF Dex-III replacement fluid (Redline! Vroom baby!) Pan filter, gasket, and filter gasket, Permatex High Temp red sealant (Part # 26B for those interested) and some other nick-nacks I have been itching to own for a while now - for $60. Flat. No gimmicks, or tricks. I will be pulling the pan out of the truck and doing the swap and refill after a thorough cleaning of the pan - and I will post back. I figure we all could use some DIY experience to add to the already voluble information on tap here. Wish me luck guys! TTYL... :naughty:

When you get done, you can come do mine. :)

When you get done, you can come do mine. :)

Sure! It will cost you $130 + Tax....yeah. ;> Anyway, I am out of work on on my way home to make a mess of myself. :biggrin:

Sure! It will cost you $130 + Tax....yeah. ;> Anyway, I am out of work on on my way home to make a mess of myself. :biggrin:

Have it flushed and filter changed at the same time.

Do not just change the filter and have it plugging up with old fluid from the torque convertor.

Do it right once, then forget about it.

Talk about a fool's errand. :P The whole thing was a comedy or errors - and I have not impusively washed myself so many times in a row since the last time I landed in a mess similar to this in my teens...

The bolts were easy to reach. All of them came off, except the 4 back pan bolts in an attempt to tip the front lip of the pan down to allow the system to drain a little, and then the back bolts would come off. Well, somewhere it was sticking, and rather than mar up the sealing surfaces with a screwdriver, I reached for my non-marring hammer to give it a tap. Just as I took my eyes off of it, it came down. Not only did it hit me in the head, but a good solid rush of ATF *drenched me*. My friends, let me tell you right now - tranny fluid stings the nose and eyes like you would not believe. But there is more!

So in addition to the quart that slowly petered out of the bolt holes over time as I was loosening them all up, another quart of the stuff is pretty much absorbed in my hair and clothes. This is NOT good for a person that has very curly, black hair to the hip. *GRRRRRRRR* But I digress...
I go ahead and remove the four remaining bolts in the rear of the pan, and it comes off, easily. It moves freely about too - in the space afforded between the cross-pipe for the driver's side manifold, and the tranny mount crossmember that is present in our lovely 4x4s. Luckily, the "Factory seal" was...nonexistant. Bare aluminum to aluminum contact is all that kept this beast holding liquid. So ever so carefully, I siphon off more fluid with tubing until I cannot drain any more, and then clean the "gasket area" with a lint-free cloth. Bolted everything back up snug and called it quits. I neither have a tranny jack, and no amount of contortionists training would allow me to snake a breaker bar and 1/2 socket head up into the near-engine area to pop the collectors from the manifold to give me some playing room.

After cleaning up the pan area from the massive splash and spray of ATF when it bonked me on the noggin, I checked for leaks, and to be sure, moved a rag with solvent around the bolts and pan to wipe up any excessive fluid that may be hanging around.

I put 3 quarts of "top off" Dex-III in there, rather than my prized stash of Redline. Start her up, pause in each gear range for 10 seconds, forward and back, then leave in park. Needed just one/half more of a quart to top up to the cold marks. I looked again for leaks, saw none...bolted the body armor back on.

I spent most of my evening now, just *TRYING* to get this ATF out of my hair and eyes. Just when I think I'm clean, there is just that much more burning, oily stuff creeping down the back of my neck, scalp ...ugh. So in short, unless you have all of the tools and are related to Plasticman - Book yourself an appointment to your friendly, neighborhood mechanic.

That $130 dead-presidents for them to save me this hassle is looking damn fine at the moment. ;)

You do know that you essentially did nothing.

Did you drain the torque convertor?

It holds 60% of the the total tranny fluid.

it was funny reading your troubles reminds me of my day but lt is correct

Yes, I do know this, Blazer. ;> I am booking an appointment as I speak - my mechanic's also a pretty decent friend whom does not mind me calling up at hours like this when he is still working. This is the first vehicle I have ever owned that presented such a problem. Subaru, no sweat. Dodge, never a thought beyond where my No.30 Torx went to pop the retaining bolt out of the filter. My Oldsmobile's ghastly, terrible 200R4 saw me in the pan every other oil change. Weak-assed gearboxes... Even completely serviced other MOPAR trannys. My Rodeo? Pull the plug and let it bleed - top off with Mobil-1 synthetic 30 weight. Done. This truck...ugh, have to get a blasting permit to just set the pan loose, and by the time you got it, it will fall off on it's own anyway. :D But yes, for the benefit of others, I know I did essentially NOTHING to give it the attention it needs. Damn frustrating to not have all of the tools to take a lick at it when one's mind is all set to go and do it. This thing's a dang Chinese puzzle box to get into. ;)

LOL, I don't mean to be arrogant or anything, but I bust a gut imagining it!! Thats exactly what happened to me the first time I *tried* to do a tranny service. It took me about three hours in a bathtub to get it all the fluid off of me. I eventually got the pan off and figured it out - it took me two days of cursing to complete it. Since then, I have perfected the procedure of getting the pan off these trucks. I feel sorry for ya, but I had to laugh when I read this...

I feel sorry for ya, but I had to laugh when I read this...

In hindsight, and 6 showers later - this is hillarious. So no apologies at all required. Man, I am going to have one hell of a story to tell at work later on this morning. BTW, speaking of hindsight; what ended up being your solution to getting the pan off? I can almost taste the sentance, "Well, get yourself a block of wood and a hydraulic floor jack..." coming back my way. I am curious to know, because I am betting on not living in an apartment complex for much longer after the *mess* I made in the parking lot. I will be forced to look into that house nearby. *snicker*

I was once Sir Clean Wrenches of the Turning when I worked on earlier GM. That made a change when something similar happened with a buddy of mine. We were working on his classic Nova when the tranny pan was stuck fast. I told him to get his rubber mallet out and just give it a good tap. He swings like he was gunning for the back wall at Giants Stadium - flying pan full of tepid Dextron comes my way to strike me dead in my chest, turn uright - splash my face - take a seemingly slow, agonizing ride down my torso to bounce off of bare toes. I was wearing sandals in summertime. I do not think my buddy Steve ever heard half of the obsceneties coming out of my mouth in the manner I was stringing them together. ATF in clothes - toss the clothes. The rest of the summer I went bald. Seemed like no amount of scrubbing could get the stuff off. This Dex-III stuff seems much worse... *sigh* But there are funnier bone-headed stories I could tell, all in the venue of one trying to understand what they have been given to work and live with - but that is best given out in small doses over a period of time. Tonight's folly will more than suffice for everyone at the moment. :)

Not trying to Monday morning quarterback here, but I just replaced the PCS in my '98 2wd yesterday, and although I wish these things had drain plugs, I would still say the process was relatively neat. I've done an Avalanche (which did have a drain plug, BTW) and a Silverado too, and I like to pull the front end up on ramps so everything drains toward the rear of the pan. Then remove all but the corner bolts, loosen them with a nice big oil drain pan ready to catch the flow from the rear, then tap the pan with bolts still in to break it loose in the sticky spots. Once all the fluid that will spill over the rear of the pan is out, it's pretty easy to hold it up with one hand while removing the remaining bolts and then lower it down and spill the rest into the drain pan. With the vehicle tilted, I got out about 5 quarts (give or take), so the ratio of clean oil to dirty is a little better... good enough that I feel like I didn't waste a new filter (the old one should have trapped anything large enough that a filter would normally catch anyway). To get the vehicle off the ramps, I added a gallon of DexIII, started up, made sure the trans engaged "safely", and then backed up off the ramps to a level spot where I could top off accurately. This job was work related (we make the PCSs here), and I stayed clean enough that all I had to do was wash my hands and dust off my rear. I probably could have avoided the latter if I'd swept up the work area first. Final comment, THIS IS DEFINITELY A SERVICE WORTH DOING. You may get 100,000+ miles out of your transmission even if you don't do this service, but you'll almost definitely get a LOT more if you change your trans oil every 50k or so.

One more thing... make SURE to clean off the pan magnet. All the solenoids in your transmission generate reasonably strong magnetic fields in use, and if the pan magnet doesn't catch the metallic crap that get generated by normal component wear, the PCS will attract this stuff and it's calibration will shift down a little. This means lower pressure for light throttle shifts and potentially more slippage (and faster wear) than is desirable.

Wolfox I can "smell" your pain. I analyze tranny oil and there is nothing that smells worse. One of those jobs you'll only do once and never again!!!

If you have already changed your filter and cleaned the pan you can flush the system yourself if you want to give it a try. i do this to ALL my vehicles and it works well. Of course you don't need to do it often, say every 75-90K or so. When I change the filter and clean the pan I put back and fill with 3-4qts fresh fluid. I then unhook the return line from radiator(or transmission cooler) and run a 3-4' hose to a 1 gallon container, with a 5 gallon one sitting by. I have someone start the vehicle and switch gears while watching the fluid fill up the container. It will fill FAST so watch it. When almost full stop engine, pour the one gallon of crap into the larger bucket, and fill again. Do this 3-4 times and you have run all new fluid in and flushd system out. Top off and forget it. The total run time will only be 2 minutes more or less. Don't want to run longer as in some vehicles you are running a small part of your tranny with minimal lube as the return line lubes some parts. I always run the engine for 30 sec or so before dropping the pan. that way the parts are lubed and runnig the engine for 1-2 minutes won't hurt anything. Read this on a web site dedicated to Ford Explorers. I have used this on 6 different GMs, including my 93 S-10 Blazer and fords, works fine. Total cost half of shop, and you can return old crap to Advance to be recycled.

I think I've heard of a similar process where you also disconnect the return line and let it suck clean fluid from another bucket.

I think I've heard of a similar process where you also disconnect the return line and let it suck clean fluid from another bucket.

I think you are probably refering to a post I made. The guy that was flushing my tranny at the shop told me about it. The guy is an idiot and it hasn't been proven whether it will work or not. So use caution if trying it.

So if I understand here....Albert !

By draining the pan, clean/and/or replace filter and sew back up, add 5 quarts of DEX-III you essentially are changing about 50% of the fluid which is good. Doing this every 30-40K would insure that for the most part the fluid is being freshened up.


BlazerLT you say it's doing nothing right ? Better to flush, AND drop pan, filter right ?

Interesting....my dealer says if I do the "albert" method i.e. drop pan, clean filter, pan , sew up, and add 5 quarts new fluid every 30K my tranny will last along long time. Especially since I do no towing, burnouts etc. I have done that every 30K and so far so good.....

Given that most people neglect their tranny I would think this should be a good routine....

The total flush that BlazerLT recommends is definitely a more thorough service, but I really don't think that any trans failure you might have following the schedule you've indicated could be blamed on lack of maintenance. This is a subject that doesn't have a lot of data from testing under controlled conditions though, so it's hard to say what is the optimum routine as far as material cost and labor vs. durability benefit.

Yeah, just like you said wolfox, piece of wood, crank up the jack, and remove the crossmember. Two bolts on each side, and of course the tranny mount bolts. Get that out of the way, crank up the jack about as high as it will go without damaging anything, and that will give you the necessary clearence to get the pan over the exhaust pipe and out it comes. I always drain it first by removing the upper trans line on the tranny cooler on the rad. It makes it a less messier job. usually takes me about a couple of hours for the whole process from start to finish, flush and all.

The total flush that BlazerLT recommends is definitely a more thorough service, but I really don't think that any trans failure you might have following the schedule you've indicated could be blamed on lack of maintenance. This is a subject that doesn't have a lot of data from testing under controlled conditions though, so it's hard to say what is the optimum routine as far as material cost and labor vs. durability benefit.


Want data go talk to a dealer / tranny specialist where they see 100 trannies a week....they'll tell you the same thing.....

Want data go talk to a dealer / tranny specialist where they see 100 trannies a week....they'll tell you the same thing.....

Yea, that is an unbiased place to ask? heheh....

Like they wouldn't want to replace your fluid and filter instead of a 1500 tranny job.

I have yet to see a transmission pull the fluid out of a bucket, although I have heard the same thing. the way I do it is simply refill the pan with 4 qts, carefully watching the one that is filling from the return line. It does work and works well, but you must watch it carefully. when you pump out 4 qts, shut down and replace 4 qts. Beats paying 120 bucks, but you do need a helper.

Changing tranny fluid is a pain. I've had my days of getting drenched as well. Now when I change the filter and fluid, I take a $12 drill attachment suction pump, with a plastic hose small enough to fit down the tranny dipstick tube and suck out as much as I can get first. Then when you loosen and take off the pan cover , there's only a little fluid left. It works well for me , I like it!!
The real fix for this problem is to put a dam drain bolt on the pan!!

Kevin

Heck Yea!!! Unless a manufacturer doesn't expect their engine or transmission to last long enough to need a fluid service, there should definitely be a drain plug.

This is exactly what I thought I had to do. Bummer that I do not have the floor jack, nor a place to put it. I live as I said; in an apartment complex. Any-road, it's being taken into the shop to have my mechanic get a look at it. He got a great belly laugh out of the tale of my troubles and the ensuing quest to get clean and get that stinky Dex-III off of my person and hair. He even voulenteered to take in the parts I picked up and fluids to get it done right at no extra charge. (He usually charges just a little extra if a customer comes in with their own parts) That is if, I stand beside him and give him a hand. He's a weird mechanic - loves to talk and have you hanging out - often letting me use the time to go fix other things while the truck's up on a lift. Good guy, Roy's one of the best... Anyway, this story is closed. I know what I have to do, but lack of a full compliment of tools, jacks, etc. is going to nip this project in the bud. Oh, and the method of "bleeding" your tranny dry to exchange fluids through the oil cooler/return lines works.... on other vehicles. Not sure of the 4L60E, but my Ram would certainly siphon up oil just as fast as it spit it out. Doing that first, then dropping the pan to exchange filter and clean the magnet - topping off with ATF3+ and it was done for the next 75k. Anyway, thanks for the input and comiseration on the matter. ;)

Yeah, just like you said wolfox, piece of wood, crank up the jack, and remove the crossmember. Two bolts on each side, and of course the tranny mount bolts. Get that out of the way, crank up the jack about as high as it will go without damaging anything, and that will give you the necessary clearence to get the pan over the exhaust pipe and out it comes. I always drain it first by removing the upper trans line on the tranny cooler on the rad. It makes it a less messier job. usually takes me about a couple of hours for the whole process from start to finish, flush and all.

One more thing... make SURE to clean off the pan magnet. All the solenoids in your transmission generate reasonably strong magnetic fields in use, and if the pan magnet doesn't catch the metallic crap that get generated by normal component wear, the PCS will attract this stuff and it's calibration will shift down a little. This means lower pressure for light throttle shifts and potentially more slippage (and faster wear) than is desirable.

=== MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME ON THIS ONE ===

Okay.... I let my mechanic change the fluid but I later learned that he did not have the equipment which removes the old fluid from the torque converter. Now with any consistancy, I get a momentary engine light failure (sorry I forget the code), but it has something to do with "torque converter slippage"...And then the trany shifts hard from 1st to 2nd and it's less noticable from 2nd to 3rd.

However, when I turn the key off and then restart the engine the trany shifts normal...???? Any ideas on whats causing this, and why the problem presented itself after I changed the trany fluid (from the pan only)?

One last comment: You can only find the error code if you don't shut off the motor. (Please see the NEW THREAD TO REPLY. THIS ONE IS TOO LONG TO KEEP GOING.)

=== MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME ON THIS ONE ===

Okay.... I let my mechanic change the fluid but I later learned that he did not have the equipment which removes the old fluid from the torque converter. Now with any consistancy, I get a momentary engine light failure (sorry I forget the code), but it has something to do with "torque converter slippage"...And then the trany shifts hard from 1st to 2nd and it's less noticable from 2nd to 3rd.

However, when I turn the key off and then restart the engine the trany shifts normal...???? Any ideas on whats causing this, and why the problem presented itself after I changed the trany fluid (from the pan only)?

One last comment: You can only find the error code if you don't shut off the motor. (Please see the NEW THREAD TO REPLY. THIS ONE IS TOO LONG TO KEEP GOING.)

Best to insert the link to the thread you are pointing them to.

(Please see the NEW THREAD TO REPLY. THIS ONE IS TOO LONG TO KEEP GOING.)

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=368777

For future reference and those others who are following along in this thread

Heck Yea!!! Unless a manufacturer doesn't expect their engine or transmission to last long enough to need a fluid service, there should definitely be a drain plug.

I just noticed this comment. I can't say that this is a fact or the reason, but I seem to think that I remember being told from a Ford source, that this was not done at the time to prevent only the transmission fluid from being changed. It could make sense, as if there is no drain plug, you have to drop the pan, and then you might as well change the filter why you're there.

Again, not sure if that is a fact or not, but I seem to recall that for some reason. I could be wrong. Just thought I'd add.

I just noticed this comment. I can't say that this is a fact or the reason, but I seem to think that I remember being told from a Ford source, that this was not done at the time to prevent only the transmission fluid from being changed. It could make sense, as if there is no drain plug, you have to drop the pan, and then you might as well change the filter why you're there.

Again, not sure if that is a fact or not, but I seem to recall that for some reason. I could be wrong. Just thought I'd add.

Perfectly logical.

That might be. The Avalanche I worked on did have a drain plug though.

It could have been a logic change, as I can only refer to late 80s/90s. I don't know much about the 00+, but I do know that there are vehicles now that are equipped with the drain plugs. So it could have been a change in their logic.

Okay, all said and done, I finally got the transmission serviced properly today. It took a scheduled visit to my mechanic since it was not a glaring emergency. Though some parts of my trials may have made it an emergency room visit. A few interesting things:

In my '95 4L60E tranny, there is a metal clad gasket that the filter neck snaps into very snugly. Even if it *looks* good, swap that out. How you get it out is up to you, but I used a very blunt, hooked instrument (Cotter pin removal tool for Semi tractors) to go past the seal neck and latch onto the side. A few gentle taps with a hammer had it out. Putting it back in is just as easy, using a socket on the end of a short extension that fits the bore and very light taps with a hammer will seat it in properly. Next; and it will take some effort - press the filter back up into place. It will snap into the seal's ring after some considerable pressure.

My thanks to the fellow enthusiast for the suggestion of jacking up the tranny and removing the cross-member on the 4x4 models. My mechanic wanted to yank the exhaust out. Merely getting a tranny jack into the pit with us and supporting the rear output shaft housing from the transfer case to where it meets the propellor shaft was all that was needed. Once jacked snugly up a little, loosen the driver side bolts of the crossmember and remove the bolts entirely from the passenger side. This will allow 6" or so near the rear of the pan.

BE GENTLE. You will have to finesse the pan down and back enough to clear the front of the body housing and the TCC solenoid. *ANY* pressure caused by the pan getting wedged in the front, say if you took your hands off of it will *crush* the solenoid(s) and you will have a bigger repair than normal.

Don't be CHEAP and LAZY - remove ALL remaining gasket material left on the tranny housing and the pan before you put a new gasket on. I lucked out when I dropped the pan the first time and got into trouble. The seal came away with the pan intact, leaving a clean transmission housing. However, it took some elbow grease to get all of the old paper gasket material off the pan. It liked to get bound up and stuck around the bolt holes.

Center the new gasket on the pan after a thorough flushing with solvent. Be sure to get *all* metal bits off of the flat magnet you will find in the pan. Do not worry if you see it looking like a grey, fuzzy lump. It's big, chuncky flakes that will be a cause for concern. But get that sucker clean and blasted down with solvent/brake cleaner and let air dry upside down.

As you seat the gasket, push 4 bolts through the corner holes. The gasket will have holes slightly undersized to allow you to temporarily hold it in place and the four bolts you push through it until you can get it back up onto the tranny. Thread all of your pan bolts in *by hand*. If unable to do so, do it with just one finger on your socket wrench handle until they are just snug. Gently torque the pan bolts criss-cross fashion until *snug* - not tight. Tight will just cut the gasket and you end up leaking all over the place like a seive.

Leaving the under body armor off, bolt your cross member back into place and temporarily bolt in your tranny support bolts. Pour in 3.5 quarts of fresh fluid. That should be enough to get you traction if needed, but you just dumped out about 4/5 litres of the stuff - keep that in mind! Start the engine and let it idle as you keep your foot on the brake and cycles through all of your gear ranges slowly, keeping the vehicle still. Once in park again, check fluid levels. Add enough to reach somewhere in between the "cold" hashes on your dipstick with the truck engine still idling. My truck swallowed up to another quart until it read properly.

Shut her down and go back underneath to check for leaks. Unbolt the tranny mount bolts (nuts, really) and put your body armor back on if all checks out good.

Pat yourself on the back, you just did a pan service! The fluid was in not bad shape when I took the pan down the first time, and it was certainly fresher the second time around because I had to replenish what I lost in my earlier, ill-fated attempt.
Every 60~65k miles or so, sooner if you tow or carry heavy loads, off-road or live in dusty climes - and you should have pretty much problem free use of the truck. Since I am NOT at all certain that the truck has had a full tranny service performed, I am going to perform a full system flush and pan service within the next year, year and a half as BlazerLT swears to do. Keeping on top of fluid maintainence on any vehicle is a cheap life-insurance policy for it. Compare the cost of a total tear-down and re-build when it breaks from neglect to the paltry $80~$200 you spend on a full service and the evidence will speak for itself.

Of note, and I did not bite this time:
My mechanic recomended an ATF synthetic blend made by Canada Oil. It is an all across the board ATF formulation that meets and exceeds all Mercon, Ford, Mopar, GM, Toyota and Honda specifications, even for type 4 and 5 fluids. (Yes, Even ATF3+, etc., I asked) It costs a little more to have, but I gave the truck good old Dex-III-like synthetic replacement that I already paid for. (Redline in fact) I trust my mechanic, but something about an "all purpose" ATF scared me just a little bit. Has anyone heard of such a product? The labeling on the 55 gal. drum simply stated, "ATF Synthetic Blend" and no other certification other than that. So far, my mechanic has not had any fluid related problems or customer complaints after switching to that stuff as a Universal fill in automatic transmissions. Anyone else have any thoughts on the miracle liquid?

Anyway, this concludes this chapter of GM 4L60E pan service from me..I'm outta here. ;)

One thing to note... make sure you get a gasket with the slightly undersized bolt holes when you buy the kit. I just did a job with a gasket where ALL the bolt holes were too big to keep the bolts in while I positioned the pan, and it was a REAL PAIN to keep the gasket positioned.

The quick fix to that is to get a spray can of "Copper Coat" sealant. Lightly spray just the corners of your freshly cleaned pan - that stuff turns tacky in a few seconds. Lay the gasket on top of that, then wipe out any residue from overspray in the pan with solvent on a rag. That small layer of "tack" at the corners will keep the new tranny seal flat and in place until you get your first few bolts in. Yer done!

Wolfox, your story was a good one but I think changing the transmission filter on my 1995 blazer was the worst one I ever did. In fact, I came real close to not finishing. Everything you said was true but you did not mention how hard it is to get the filter back in. There is only one way to put this filter in without removing both exhaust manifolds. I got it in but if I had to do it over again, I would gladly spend the money to let a transmission shop put it in. I would also be sure to watch them do it since I have been cheated by mechanics in the past. They sometimes say they did something and in fact did not. Especially on those hard to get at spark plugs. I hope the newer blazers are easier. :banghead:

Naw, dude - once you get the old filter out, make sure you gently remove the old seal from the bore. Then, using a small socket on an extension, tap the new seal up into place. It only goes so far, so tap lightly. If the seal is not properly in place, you are going to have a F*ck of a time getting the new filter up, and into place. Mine literally popped right in, snugly after a moderate bit of pressure. I am positive that your trouble getting yours back in was because your new seal was not fully seated all the way up inside the bore.