Another reason for the UN to be shut down.

More an argument for direct justice against those who bring the UN and humanity into disrepute.

I get really worried when people start talking about removing the organisation that provides the world's checks and balances. If your cause is just ,honest and open, the chances are that the UN will support it.As with every large organisation, there will alway be a few people who abuse their positions, and they should be rooted out and punished for it.

Screaming for the UN to be dismantled on the slimmest of grounds smacks of another agenda.That other agenda is wanting to bully the rest of the world into doing things your way and assuming the role of the UN for yourself.

Nobody appointed the US to replace the UN, and every time some redneck bleats for its removal, it highlights the need for it to remain and be strengthened against acts of despotism on the largest scale.

Calling me a redneck isn't going to change the facts the UN is corrupt from the top down and has no power to enforce anything. The UN is a waste of space. But if you really want the UN to remain maybe you could find a nice piece of land in New Zealand for the UN to use because the corruption is stinking up my area.

This isn't the first case of abuse or corruption on the part of the UN and I am sure its not the last.

The UN can stay open if you want but it should learn to survive without the US money that keeps it running.


http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2004/04-19-2004/un.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A48225-2004Nov13?language=printer

Prove that it was UN policy to carry out these crimes and you may have a point.

Here's something that says it wasn't and that the UN will hang them out to dry by waiving diplomatic immunity if necessary. I didn't have to look far because it was linked off the story you posted.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/2020/codeofconduct1.pdf

Calling me a redneck isn't going to change the facts
If it walks like a duck,and quacks like a duck, and has feathers like a duck, chances are its a duck.

Your spin on events should in no way be taken as facts. Rather it should be seen as evidence of your determination to make events fit your beliefs.





The UN can stay open if you want but it should learn to survive without the US money that keeps it running.


Glad to see that for all its faults, your government still isn't redneck enough to listen to such utter crap.

If the U.N. didn't have France as one of the head countries it'd be alright. As you know, the U.S., England, Russia, and China are the other countries that have power over the U.N. France couldn't defend their own country right and caved in unlike the others during WW2. Why should France then get a say in world affairs?

Go have a look at the history of the UN for the answer.Instead of trying to reduce the number of countries with input, the UN should be working to lessen the undue influence of the five senior members.If they can't use the right of veto responsibly, it should be scrapped.

, it should be scrapped.

I agree with you there.

Agree that the 'veto' system should be used responsibly or scrapped, or are you just picking random clusters of words out of context and assigning them a meaning that fits your prejudices?

I've posted many times justifying why the UN should be eliminated. Time and time again, they've shown to be corrupt and ineffective at pretty much everything. Rwanda, Nigeria, Sudan, Korea and the Balkans are just a handful of the miserable failures on its resume. It doesn't even qualify as a debating society. The ravings of the simple minded in support of the UN doesn't invalidate the fact the UN is little more then the newest version of the League of Nations and needs to suffer the same fate.













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The successes of the UN are the things that didn't happen, in much the same way that the successes of US defence policy have been the wars that never got fought.Having stood within sight of an armed and potentially dangerous enemy of equal magnitude for decades, and won out by sheer willpower, it belittles the work of the Defence department to go starting tinpot wars in third world countries over non-existent weapons that have been faced and beaten before.

Curiously, the nation most vocal in calling for the abolition of the UN is the one that was made to look stupid by the aUN weapons inspectors.The world knows that the farce in Iraq is a sham to cover business interests, and the baying of republicans for an end to the UN is just an attempt to divert attention away from their own inadequacies.Before Americans whine about corruption,dishonesty and failure, they should take a good look at their own administration.

Close it.

Any organization that has 5 members with power over the remaining members (with no chance of change) is unfair and unjust. This is supposed to be a positive force in the world, not a club where the senior members can veto any idea they don't like.

I'm not saying the UN hasn't done good things; it has.

But it was set up after WWII by the winners in the war. It needs to either be changed, to give other nations enough power to overcome a veto, or remove the veto power entirely and make it an egalitarian organization. Since any suggestion to make those changes are likely to be vetoed, IMO it's a better idea to scrap the whole thing and replace it by another organization that is just and fair.

'Naki, you're mistaken about the term "Redneck" :

Main Entry: red·neck
Pronunciation: 'red-"nek
Function: noun
1 sometimes disparaging : a white member of the Southern rural laboring class
2 often disparaging : a person whose behavior and opinions are similar to those attributed to rednecks

In my experience (having known some admitted rednecks) they don't care or in some cases may not even know about the UN.(So definition #2 doesn't apply, at least to Flatrater)

The UN is in New York and near to where Flatrater lives in Pennsylvania; PA is a northern state so calling him a redneck may not be appropriate. "Uppity Yankee" is, perhaps, more appropriate.

Aside from Taranaki's obsessive need to insult a political party he doesn’t understand, people from across all political spectrum have wanted the US out of the UN for decades. This is nothing new.

Close it down and wrap it up. The UN is a disease and is working itself into oblivion. Let another dozen members join the Security Council and make sure they all have veto power. The more grid locked they get, the sooner more people will finally realize what a waste of space its become.

It’s a colossal failure. About the only thing it ever excelled at was it tooting its own horn and pushing paper around. Give the people of New York back their prime piece of real estate and send the UN someplace where the lemmings can ogle at its ineptitude.













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Thought I'd throw this in here - just so people have some facts to refer to.

The veto and how to use it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2828985.stm)

Thanks T4; as usual you've got good info.

So veto = bad.

Aside from Taranaki's obsessive need to insult a political party he doesn’t understand, people from across all political spectrum have wanted the US out of the UN for decades. This is nothing new.


I understand it perfectly,thank you Yogs, that's why I insult it.It's aspiraritions for global dominance alone are enough reason to despise it.

As for your second comment,why is it that we never see the liberal Americans arguing to close down the UN in this forum? or the centrists? or the greens? or even the centre right?

Simple. The cry to close down the UN,for whatever reason, has been stoked up over the last three years since the UN declined to be part of Bush's stupid war.Only the far right and the American supremacists, who believe that being American gives them a god-right to go shoot whoever they please if they don't do as they are told are backing the call.It's pathetic and it's disgusting.

If it needs fixing, fix it.But never consider scrapping it for a second, it is far too important as a balance against Bush's despotic territorial ambitions.A world with George Bush as the unopposed arbiter of global justice would be a world destined for world war 3.

Yup sounds like you have a ggrreeaaattt idea of what republicans want.

The reason why you only here conservatives talking of scrapping is because most liberals are to the one world nation persuation, and most centrists just dont care. Although I do think that I remember Zell calling for it to be scrapped.

If it walks like a duck,and quacks like a duck, and has feathers like a duck, chances are its a duck.

Your spin on events should in no way be taken as facts. Rather it should be seen as evidence of your determination to make events fit your beliefs.

Glad to see that for all its faults, your government still isn't redneck enough to listen to such utter crap.

I have been called far worse than a redneck. Insults do not bother me that much but I can also throw some insults around, I will not lower myself to lob insults instead I will just add to the topic at hand.

Now what facts did I spin? I posted a piece written by someone else that showed the UN employees abusing their power that the UN gave them.

Tell me what real power does the UN have? As far as I can see all they do is chop down trees and make reports. SHow me how the UN has done good.

How has the sanctions put in place by the UN stopped Iraq. 10 years of resoultions had no effect on Saddam.

How has the food for oil been run by the UN. The only thing I see is a bunch on UN employees getting rich as well as Kofi's son.

What has the UN done about terrorism?

What has the UN done about the US invading Iraq besides running their mouths?

The list goes on and on. The UN can't do a thing about anything.

Now what facts did I spin? I posted a piece written by someone else that showed the UN employees abusing their power that the UN gave them.


And what title did you put above that piece?
Another reason for the UN to be shut down.

Not,'what do you think should be done about this?'
Another reason for the UN to be shut down.

That was your opinion before you saw this article, and you posted this article not for the purpose of debating, but to provoke.

I'll ignore the rest of your post because its baseless.When it comes to the UN,you have not one clue.

facts are never baseless naki

And what title did you put above that piece?
Another reason for the UN to be shut down.

Not,'what do you think should be done about this?'
Another reason for the UN to be shut down.

That was your opinion before you saw this article, and you posted this article not for the purpose of debating, but to provoke.

I'll ignore the rest of your post because its baseless.When it comes to the UN,you have not one clue.

Are you standing in front of the mirrior talking to yourself because it sure sounds like you are talking about yourself.

These are the last 2 topics you started here in this forum.

"Big Brother is now hiring. "
"Falluja.Another great military failure. "


I didn't see no "WHAT SHOULD BE DONE" in your topic name. So why did you use that as a topic title? Was it to rile users up? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.


Frankly Naki there is no point in starting the topic with the
WHAT SHOULD" since there is not a damn thing you or I can do about it.I always thought this was the politic debate forum and not the Red Cross.


You can ignore me all you want but the proof is out there for everyone to see. Just open your eyes and you will see it. If you want to talk about baseless and not worth reading my posts put me on your ignore list. Afterall I am ready to do that with you since after the first 3 words in most posts here you start with the insults.

More an argument for direct justice against those who bring the UN and humanity into disrepute.

I get really worried when people start talking about removing the organisation that provides the world's checks and balances. If your cause is just ,honest and open, the chances are that the UN will support it.As with every large organisation, there will alway be a few people who abuse their positions, and they should be rooted out and punished for it.

Screaming for the UN to be dismantled on the slimmest of grounds smacks of another agenda.That other agenda is wanting to bully the rest of the world into doing things your way and assuming the role of the UN for yourself.

Nobody appointed the US to replace the UN, and every time some redneck bleats for its removal, it highlights the need for it to remain and be strengthened against acts of despotism on the largest scale.


I agree.

The UN is another attempt at the once-failed Leage of Nations, formed after World War 1, which also brought in the treaties of Versailles that expelled germany of most of it's rights (and broke up rhineland from germany which was another point Hitler made clear that he'd get back once he was elected, and he didn't disapoint his people) which gave hitler his voice, and apointed him.

If the Leage of Nations hadn't of failed to prevent The German army from advancing into poland in 1939 World War Two would of been avoided. But between 1918 and 1939 a lot of other country's backed out of the Leage Of Nations, Germany, being one of them, pulled out as soon as Hitler came to power, and Japan followed a few years later, then Itally, soon the Leage of Nations came powerless to stop a growing terror. Simply because the powers (mainly being America, France, and Britan) were too scared to do anything, 6 million innocent jews were murdered, and millions and millions of innocent people killed because of some fuck sticks didn't make a move.

I understand it perfectly,thank you Yogs, that's why I insult it.It's aspiraritions for global dominance alone are enough reason to despise it.

Which proves my point that you do not understand it.

As for your second comment,why is it that we never see the liberal Americans arguing to close down the UN in this forum? or the centrists? or the greens? or even the centre right?

This forum is hardly representative of any cross segment of the different political leanings in this country. My youngest sister votes green and is quite the fireball liberal on a lot of issues. She hates the UN. She can't stand how that organization supports countries with such horrendous human rights abuses. She wants people to have the right to choose what they want (a very liberal position that I also support) and the UN backs up countries that restrict it.


Simple. The cry to close down the UN,for whatever reason, has been stoked up over the last three years since the UN declined to be part of Bush's stupid war.Only the far right and the American supremacists, who believe that being American gives them a god-right to go shoot whoever they please if they don't do as they are told are backing the call.It's pathetic and it's disgusting.

Wrong wrong wrong. The call to get the US out of the UN has been around for decades. You've only heard about it over the last several years. During the cold war what did the UN do? Nothing - it was pretty much just ignored except the Korean war. They sure did a great job there. How about after that? Nearly a million dead under Annans watch. Serbia? They stayed away. Somalia? Fucked up from day one. What’s truly disgusting is that anyone would stand behind something so fucked up.

If it needs fixing, fix it.But never consider scrapping it for a second, it is far too important as a balance against Bush's despotic territorial ambitions.A world with George Bush as the unopposed arbiter of global justice would be a world destined for world war 3.

It doesn't need fixing - it needs to be eliminated. You're so hyped up over the casualties in Iraq yet you bow in reverence to the filth that stand aside while millions die that they were specifically there to protect.


The UN is a waste. It doesn't stand up for its own stated principles. It cowers from its own resolutions. Its mismanaged. Its corrupt from the top down. The sooner that stain is removed from New York the better off we will all be.














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For those who believe the UNto be worthless....

Come tell the sailors from our blue-water Navy.For the last couple of years we've been sending pretty much everything that can get that far to work anti-terrorist patrols in the Gulf.Tell it to our army, who have been risking their lives in trouble spots that you don't hear much about,like East Timor and the Solomon Islands.Or Afghanistan, or Bosnia, or any one of a dozen or more points of conflict over the last decade.Tell it to the aAirforce guys, flying Hercules into airstrips broken and battered by the tsunami to take UN aid to those still dying of the effects of the tragedy.

Come and tell them that what they are doing is worthless.I fucking dare you, you couch cowards! Just because your beloved fucking George doesn't get what he wants, you cry like little kids.

The UN isn't perfect, we know that much for certain.But its a damn sight better than the twisted bullshit that George has to offer.

facts are never baseless naki
I agree. And when bullshit statements like "The UN can't do a thing about anything.' Get referred to as facts, I get pissed off.It's baseless shite , not worth arguing over, so I choose to ignore it, and any fuckwit who is stupid enough to believe it.

For those who believe the UNto be worthless....

Come tell the sailors from our blue-water Navy.For the last couple of years we've been sending pretty much everything that can get that far to work anti-terrorist patrols in the Gulf.Tell it to our army, ...Tell it to the aAirforce guys,
Come and tell them that what they are doing is worthless.I fucking dare you, you couch cowards!

Tell WHO????
Just because your beloved fucking George doesn't get what he wants, you cry like little kids.

What Exactly does he want with the UN

What Exactly does he want with the UN

Legitimacy.

For those who believe the UNto be worthless....

Come tell the sailors from our blue-water Navy.For the last couple of years we've been sending pretty much everything that can get that far to work anti-terrorist patrols in the Gulf.Tell it to our army, who have been risking their lives in trouble spots that you don't hear much about,like East Timor and the Solomon Islands.Or Afghanistan, or Bosnia, or any one of a dozen or more points of conflict over the last decade.Tell it to the aAirforce guys, flying Hercules into airstrips broken and battered by the tsunami to take UN aid to those still dying of the effects of the tragedy.


And what the has that to do with the UN. Not a fucking thing. Disaster relief, security patrol and fighting terrorism can and would occur without the UN.


Come and tell them that what they are doing is worthless.I fucking dare you, you couch cowards! Just because your beloved fucking George doesn't get what he wants, you cry like little kids.

Get a fucking grip. :rolleyes: The UN is necessary to do anything you've described. In fact, all could be run a whole hell of a lot better if they weren't adding more administrative overhead.

This has nothing to do with George. Its all about the UN. It was a fuck up on day one. It’ll be a fuck up until the day it falls apart.

The UN isn't perfect, we know that much for certain.But its a damn sight better than the twisted bullshit that George has to offer.

Again you're all wrapped up in thinking that the US thinks its an alternative to the UN. The UN is a total failure on its own merits (or total lack thereof). The US is no replacement for the UN as the UN shouldn't be replaced after it collapses.













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I agree. And when bullshit statements like "The UN can't do a thing about anything.' Get referred to as facts, I get pissed off.It's baseless shite , not worth arguing over, so I choose to ignore it, and any fuckwit who is stupid enough to believe it.

Only the fucking blind and stupid can't see the massive failure the UN has become. In addition to the multitude of failures I've discussed (and linked to as well) here are a few more.

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9806/04/rwanda.congo.probe/ (http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9806/04/rwanda.congo.probe/)
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/4/20/165110.shtml
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/04/iranno042202.htm
http://www.aegis.com/news/afp/2002/AF021258.html
http://web.amnesty.org/web/wire.nsf/september2001/east_timor
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1201763.stm
http://www.afrol.com/News2002/ang007_un_hrw_idps.htm

I'm not even brining up their failure on Oil for food, Iraq in general, the Sudan right now, Kasmir or the Ivory Coast.

Baseless huh :disappoin













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I agree that the U.N. is flawed - fatally. It is outdated for one, as mentioned already by the fact that certain nations still posses veto power even though they are shells of their former self. This leads to the implications associated with certain nations possessing veto power in the first place… which you can say stems from the very fact that the UN receives drastically uneven levels of support from its member nations (also relates to individual nation's economic/military influence in the world)… This again in turn affects its credibility as a united world entity – it’s a fatal catch22: many member nations (Canada for one) do not support their own weight in the UN like they should, which affects the organizations credibility and priority for world nations. On the other hand, there is no way for many countries (if any) to possibly match the level of support and contribution that the United States delivers (which the U.S. in a sense is forced to do, due to the lack of priority/capacity of other members).

The bottom line is that the UN is simply not a priority for many member nations the way it should be in the true spirit of the organization. Its credibility and legitimacy has often times been challenged and directly (almost spitefully) opposed – the UN itself has no real authority. I don’t doubt for a second that the world needs a global organization like the UN, or that the current UN does serve a good - but it should be able to impact so much more. I think the current organization should be completely abolished, and a new world coalition (call it L.O.N. II) be formed where member nations hold each other accountable for their separate contributions as well as to the coalitions charter (which basically has to involve everyone on a more level playing field – obviously countries like the U.S. should be made to have more influence than a country like Iceland, but they shouldn’t be made omnipotent. Example: just one veto every year or two??).