The Iraq vote
Flatrater
02-13-2005, 11:50 AM
I'm surpised that we haven't had a topic on this in the 2 weeks since the elections were held. So here goes.
Iraq had a 60% voter turnout which is pretty good under the conditions that they had to put up with.
Shiite list wins Iraq elections
The list of candidates representing Iraq's majority Shiites won the most votes in the nation's Jan. 30 election, followed by the Kurds and then interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's list, Iraqi election officials said Sunday.
The Shiite-dominated list - United Iraqi Alliance backed by top Shiite cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani - received 4.075 million votes, say 48% of the vote. A Kurdish alliance was second with 2.175 million votes and Allawi's list was third with 1.168 million, say 13.8% of the vote.
Of Iraq's 14 million eligible voters, 8,456,266 cast ballots, the commission said, according to The AP. That represents a turnout of less than 60 percent.
Election officials said just 3,775 valid votes were cast in the Sunni province of Anbar.
About 1.75 million votes were cast in the Kurdish-ruled areas of northern Iraq. Iraqis living in those areas also elected a new regional parliament.
The results released Sunday will not be certified for three days, officials said. "This is a new birth for Iraq," commission spokesman Farid Ayar said.
Iraq had a 60% voter turnout which is pretty good under the conditions that they had to put up with.
Shiite list wins Iraq elections
The list of candidates representing Iraq's majority Shiites won the most votes in the nation's Jan. 30 election, followed by the Kurds and then interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's list, Iraqi election officials said Sunday.
The Shiite-dominated list - United Iraqi Alliance backed by top Shiite cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani - received 4.075 million votes, say 48% of the vote. A Kurdish alliance was second with 2.175 million votes and Allawi's list was third with 1.168 million, say 13.8% of the vote.
Of Iraq's 14 million eligible voters, 8,456,266 cast ballots, the commission said, according to The AP. That represents a turnout of less than 60 percent.
Election officials said just 3,775 valid votes were cast in the Sunni province of Anbar.
About 1.75 million votes were cast in the Kurdish-ruled areas of northern Iraq. Iraqis living in those areas also elected a new regional parliament.
The results released Sunday will not be certified for three days, officials said. "This is a new birth for Iraq," commission spokesman Farid Ayar said.
taranaki
02-13-2005, 06:34 PM
........So out of about 14 million people elligible to vote, about 4 million voted for the guys that will run the country?And 10 million didn't.......
and the Sunni people from theprovince of Anbar have so much faith in the system imposed on them that less than 4,000 even bothered to vote?
Don't hurry to organise the transport convoys home,guys.This is 'democracy' in the slimmest sense of the word. Interesting too, to see that Bush's stooges from the interim 'government' did so badly. 13 out of 14 eligible voters chose not to vote for them.What a surprise.
and the Sunni people from theprovince of Anbar have so much faith in the system imposed on them that less than 4,000 even bothered to vote?
Don't hurry to organise the transport convoys home,guys.This is 'democracy' in the slimmest sense of the word. Interesting too, to see that Bush's stooges from the interim 'government' did so badly. 13 out of 14 eligible voters chose not to vote for them.What a surprise.
Flatrater
02-13-2005, 07:56 PM
Naki aren't you one of the people preaching about how bad a 2 party system is? Here in Iraq they have at least 100 parties. For one party to get more than 50% of the vote is impossible.
The interim government has the smallest population and they would have the least amount of voters. This government is goign to have to form an alliance with the other parties to get more than 50% support behind any proposal brought before the new government.
Could the 4000 people from Anbar be the only ones who weren't scared of the death threat they recieved if the voted?
The interim government has the smallest population and they would have the least amount of voters. This government is goign to have to form an alliance with the other parties to get more than 50% support behind any proposal brought before the new government.
Could the 4000 people from Anbar be the only ones who weren't scared of the death threat they recieved if the voted?
taranaki
02-13-2005, 08:29 PM
Could the 4000 people from Anbar be the only ones who weren't scared of the death threat they recieved if the voted?
Could it be that the balance of them would have voted for Sunni candidates if they thougfht they had a hope in hell of getting any representation?
The Sunnis have been effectively ejected from power by foreign invasion and prevented from retaining any representation by the fickle nature of a flawed democratic system.They aren't likely to take such a slur lightly.Expect them to turn up at the new parliament with car bombs and RPG's.
Could it be that the balance of them would have voted for Sunni candidates if they thougfht they had a hope in hell of getting any representation?
The Sunnis have been effectively ejected from power by foreign invasion and prevented from retaining any representation by the fickle nature of a flawed democratic system.They aren't likely to take such a slur lightly.Expect them to turn up at the new parliament with car bombs and RPG's.
DGB454
02-13-2005, 08:33 PM
Keep in mind that the Iraqi people were being threatened by "their own people" or as some like to call them "insurgents" if they voted. This was much worse in the Sunni areas yet people got out and voted. What does that say for them?
They are the real heroes in this whole ordeal. They are tired of the war and are wanting to move on and move forward with a voice in the way things are run. They are tired of being scared of the very people (insurgents) that pretend to be fighting for their freedom. If these "insurgents" thought for a minute that the people backed them then their would be no need for them to use threats of violence against them. Unfortunatly for the Sunni areas the threat was greater and they didn't get the turnout they needed to put their people of choice in the upcomming ruling cabinet. Fortunatly for the Sunni areas it appears that the rest of Iraq may be reaching out their collective hands to bring them in. This was a major blow to the so called freedom fighters/insurgents. The people don't want them their. Granted the people also don't want the allied forces their either and hopefully soon that to can be accomplished as Iraqis begin to work together and hopefully grow into an independant democratic free standing self governing nation.
They are the real heroes in this whole ordeal. They are tired of the war and are wanting to move on and move forward with a voice in the way things are run. They are tired of being scared of the very people (insurgents) that pretend to be fighting for their freedom. If these "insurgents" thought for a minute that the people backed them then their would be no need for them to use threats of violence against them. Unfortunatly for the Sunni areas the threat was greater and they didn't get the turnout they needed to put their people of choice in the upcomming ruling cabinet. Fortunatly for the Sunni areas it appears that the rest of Iraq may be reaching out their collective hands to bring them in. This was a major blow to the so called freedom fighters/insurgents. The people don't want them their. Granted the people also don't want the allied forces their either and hopefully soon that to can be accomplished as Iraqis begin to work together and hopefully grow into an independant democratic free standing self governing nation.
taranaki
02-13-2005, 08:35 PM
Keep in mind that the Iraqi people were being threatened by "their own people" or as som like to call them "insurgents" if they voted. This was much worse in the Sunni areas yet people got out and voted. What does that say for them?
They are the real heroes in this whole ordeal. They are tired of the war and are wanting to move on move forward with a voice in the way things are run. They are tired of being scared of the very people (insurgents) that pretend to be fighting for their freedom. If these "insurgents" thought for a minute that the people backed them then their would be no need for them to use threats of violence against them. Unfortunatly for the Sunni areas the threat was greater and they didn't get the turnout they needed to put their people of choice in the upcomming ruling cabinet. Fortunatly for the Sunni areas it appears that the rest of Iraq may be reaching out their collective hands to bring them in. This was a major blow to the so called freedom fighters/insurgents. The people don't want them their. Granted the people also don't want the allied forces their either and hopefully soon that to can be accomplished as Iraqis begin to work together and hopefully grow into an independant democratic free standing self governing nation.
That's your opinion....Curiously enough it matches up to all the excuses that your government is making.
They are the real heroes in this whole ordeal. They are tired of the war and are wanting to move on move forward with a voice in the way things are run. They are tired of being scared of the very people (insurgents) that pretend to be fighting for their freedom. If these "insurgents" thought for a minute that the people backed them then their would be no need for them to use threats of violence against them. Unfortunatly for the Sunni areas the threat was greater and they didn't get the turnout they needed to put their people of choice in the upcomming ruling cabinet. Fortunatly for the Sunni areas it appears that the rest of Iraq may be reaching out their collective hands to bring them in. This was a major blow to the so called freedom fighters/insurgents. The people don't want them their. Granted the people also don't want the allied forces their either and hopefully soon that to can be accomplished as Iraqis begin to work together and hopefully grow into an independant democratic free standing self governing nation.
That's your opinion....Curiously enough it matches up to all the excuses that your government is making.
DGB454
02-13-2005, 09:14 PM
That's your opinion....Curiously enough it matches up to all the excuses that your government is making.
Really? Which part?
The part where the Iraqi people voted in spite of the threats on their life?
The part where I said they were heroes?
The part where I said they were tired of being afraid of these so called freedom fighters?
The part where I said that the Sunni areas were were threatened more than other areas?
The part where I said if insurgents thought for a minute that the people backed them then their would be no need for them to use threats of violence against them?
The part where I said fortunatly for the Sunni areas it appears that the rest of Iraq may be reaching out their collective hands to bring them in?
The part where I said This was a major blow to the so called freedom fighters/insurgents?
Or finally the part where I said The people don't want them their. Granted the people also don't want the allied forces their either and hopefully soon that to can be accomplished as Iraqis begin to work together and hopefully grow into an independant democratic free standing self governing nation?
Which part looks like an "excuse" for something? What exactly is it I am making an excuse for?
Really? Which part?
The part where the Iraqi people voted in spite of the threats on their life?
The part where I said they were heroes?
The part where I said they were tired of being afraid of these so called freedom fighters?
The part where I said that the Sunni areas were were threatened more than other areas?
The part where I said if insurgents thought for a minute that the people backed them then their would be no need for them to use threats of violence against them?
The part where I said fortunatly for the Sunni areas it appears that the rest of Iraq may be reaching out their collective hands to bring them in?
The part where I said This was a major blow to the so called freedom fighters/insurgents?
Or finally the part where I said The people don't want them their. Granted the people also don't want the allied forces their either and hopefully soon that to can be accomplished as Iraqis begin to work together and hopefully grow into an independant democratic free standing self governing nation?
Which part looks like an "excuse" for something? What exactly is it I am making an excuse for?
T4 Primera
02-13-2005, 09:21 PM
...Shiite list wins Iraq elections
The list of candidates representing Iraq's majority Shiites won the most votes in the nation's Jan. 30 election, followed by the Kurds and then interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's list, Iraqi election officials said Sunday.
The Shiite-dominated list - United Iraqi Alliance backed by top Shiite cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani - received 4.075 million votes, say 48% of the vote. A Kurdish alliance was second with 2.175 million votes and Allawi's list was third with 1.168 million, say 13.8% of the vote.
Of Iraq's 14 million eligible voters, 8,456,266 cast ballots, the commission said, according to The AP. That represents a turnout of less than 60 percent.
Election officials said just 3,775 valid votes were cast in the Sunni province of Anbar.
About 1.75 million votes were cast in the Kurdish-ruled areas of northern Iraq. Iraqis living in those areas also elected a new regional parliament.
The results released Sunday will not be certified for three days, officials said. "This is a new birth for Iraq," commission spokesman Farid Ayar said.
I'm ROTFLMAO that this report has the word "justify" sprinkled all through it.....poetic.....a Freudian slip of the keyboard even. :lol: :lol2: :grinno:
A more serious reply later..... :sunglasse
The list of candidates representing Iraq's majority Shiites won the most votes in the nation's Jan. 30 election, followed by the Kurds and then interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's list, Iraqi election officials said Sunday.
The Shiite-dominated list - United Iraqi Alliance backed by top Shiite cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani - received 4.075 million votes, say 48% of the vote. A Kurdish alliance was second with 2.175 million votes and Allawi's list was third with 1.168 million, say 13.8% of the vote.
Of Iraq's 14 million eligible voters, 8,456,266 cast ballots, the commission said, according to The AP. That represents a turnout of less than 60 percent.
Election officials said just 3,775 valid votes were cast in the Sunni province of Anbar.
About 1.75 million votes were cast in the Kurdish-ruled areas of northern Iraq. Iraqis living in those areas also elected a new regional parliament.
The results released Sunday will not be certified for three days, officials said. "This is a new birth for Iraq," commission spokesman Farid Ayar said.
I'm ROTFLMAO that this report has the word "justify" sprinkled all through it.....poetic.....a Freudian slip of the keyboard even. :lol: :lol2: :grinno:
A more serious reply later..... :sunglasse
YogsVR4
02-14-2005, 10:05 AM
I've been encouraged by the tone taken by the winners of the election. The people of Iraq were given an opportunity to select their leadership. That leadership will form the type of government that will represent its people. People may moan about the war itself, but that aside, its was a good first election.
fredjacksonsan
02-14-2005, 12:43 PM
Considering the circumstances, close to 60% is pretty damn good. Isn't that a greater % than voted in the last US election?
You'll never get 100% of the people to vote in any society, unless they're forced. That's part of the choice they make. If you choose not to vote (for any reason and yes that includes death threats) then you can't really complain about the government.
I'm rooting for the Iraqis to have a democratic government so the US will leave, then install whatever they feel is best.
You'll never get 100% of the people to vote in any society, unless they're forced. That's part of the choice they make. If you choose not to vote (for any reason and yes that includes death threats) then you can't really complain about the government.
I'm rooting for the Iraqis to have a democratic government so the US will leave, then install whatever they feel is best.
T4 Primera
02-14-2005, 02:54 PM
Considering the circumstances, close to 60% is pretty damn good. Isn't that a greater % than voted in the last US election?
You'll never get 100% of the people to vote in any society, unless they're forced. That's part of the choice they make. If you choose not to vote (for any reason and yes that includes death threats) then you can't really complain about the government...
Want a better voter turn-out? Just follow the Iraqi model.
Vote for Food: Confession and More Links (http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/2005/02/vote-for-food-confession-and-more.html)
If you think this was not a significant factor in the turn-out, then perhaps you can explain why the ex-pat Iraqi turnout was less than 10%, even with vastly better security conditions.
When the number of eligible voters inside Iraq is added to the number outside of Iraq - the turnout is less than 50%.
Less than 10% of Expat voters register (http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/2005/01/less-than-10-of-expat-voters-register.html)
Anyway, contrary to what you might hear on Faux Meuws, there are irregularities.
Stuffed ballot boxes, tampering, disqualifications etc. (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=486736&page=1)
...I'm rooting for the Iraqis to have a democratic government so the US will leave, then install whatever they feel is best.
Me too. Although I'm still not convinced it should happen in that order.
What does seem likely is that the new government will be freindly with Iran and anti-Israel.
Iran freindly - Anti-Israel (http://www.juancole.com/2005/02/shiites-take-absolute-majority-in.html)
You'll never get 100% of the people to vote in any society, unless they're forced. That's part of the choice they make. If you choose not to vote (for any reason and yes that includes death threats) then you can't really complain about the government...
Want a better voter turn-out? Just follow the Iraqi model.
Vote for Food: Confession and More Links (http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/2005/02/vote-for-food-confession-and-more.html)
If you think this was not a significant factor in the turn-out, then perhaps you can explain why the ex-pat Iraqi turnout was less than 10%, even with vastly better security conditions.
When the number of eligible voters inside Iraq is added to the number outside of Iraq - the turnout is less than 50%.
Less than 10% of Expat voters register (http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/2005/01/less-than-10-of-expat-voters-register.html)
Anyway, contrary to what you might hear on Faux Meuws, there are irregularities.
Stuffed ballot boxes, tampering, disqualifications etc. (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=486736&page=1)
...I'm rooting for the Iraqis to have a democratic government so the US will leave, then install whatever they feel is best.
Me too. Although I'm still not convinced it should happen in that order.
What does seem likely is that the new government will be freindly with Iran and anti-Israel.
Iran freindly - Anti-Israel (http://www.juancole.com/2005/02/shiites-take-absolute-majority-in.html)
Flatrater
02-14-2005, 07:45 PM
If you think this was not a significant factor in the turn-out, then perhaps you can explain why the ex-pat Iraqi turnout was less than 10%, even with vastly better security conditions.
When the number of eligible voters inside Iraq is added to the number outside of Iraq - the turnout is less than 50%.
Less than 10% of Expat voters register (http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/2005/01/less-than-10-of-expat-voters-register.html)
So tell me this! How many polling stations were set up in the US? Could it be the majority of people that could of voted didn't because of the travel time they needed? Could of been the money needed to get to a polling place for an election that didn't mean anything to them? There are reasons behind only 10% of expats voting.
You are tryting to make it sound like they didn't want to vote or that they didn't care to vote. You are twisting the facts to support your statements.
When the number of eligible voters inside Iraq is added to the number outside of Iraq - the turnout is less than 50%.
Less than 10% of Expat voters register (http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/2005/01/less-than-10-of-expat-voters-register.html)
So tell me this! How many polling stations were set up in the US? Could it be the majority of people that could of voted didn't because of the travel time they needed? Could of been the money needed to get to a polling place for an election that didn't mean anything to them? There are reasons behind only 10% of expats voting.
You are tryting to make it sound like they didn't want to vote or that they didn't care to vote. You are twisting the facts to support your statements.
T4 Primera
02-14-2005, 09:24 PM
...You are twisting the facts to support your statements...
Actually, I am twisting my statements to support the facts :icon16:
It is a valid point though, there wasn't time to organise for postal ballots. The distances required to travel are however offset by the difference in security (ease of travel) as well as the difference in motivation (no vote - no food).
There wasn't time for election campaigning or even raising money for election campaigning unless your were Allawi - in which case the NED funded you through the IRI and NDI. NED, NDI, IRI (http://www.antiwar.com/paul/paul79.html)
...And lets not forget that the actual identities of the candidates was kept secret for security reasons (they tend to get assasinated). But they are not secret now.....
Other than that you could call it a resounding success :rolleyes:
Actually, I am twisting my statements to support the facts :icon16:
It is a valid point though, there wasn't time to organise for postal ballots. The distances required to travel are however offset by the difference in security (ease of travel) as well as the difference in motivation (no vote - no food).
There wasn't time for election campaigning or even raising money for election campaigning unless your were Allawi - in which case the NED funded you through the IRI and NDI. NED, NDI, IRI (http://www.antiwar.com/paul/paul79.html)
...And lets not forget that the actual identities of the candidates was kept secret for security reasons (they tend to get assasinated). But they are not secret now.....
Other than that you could call it a resounding success :rolleyes:
mellowboy
02-15-2005, 07:25 PM
The vote turned out lower then 60 %. I think they said it was around 47%.
YogsVR4
02-16-2005, 10:29 AM
The vote turned out lower then 60 %. I think they said it was around 47%.
60%-75% http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/94682ECB-4904-4CE1-94A4-BFBE41ADE2C8.htm
60%-75% http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/94682ECB-4904-4CE1-94A4-BFBE41ADE2C8.htm
T4 Primera
02-16-2005, 03:10 PM
60%-75% http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/94682ECB-4904-4CE1-94A4-BFBE41ADE2C8.htm
That link is dated 1st February, barely a day after polling.
Mellowboy, have you got a link for your figure of 47%?
That link is dated 1st February, barely a day after polling.
Mellowboy, have you got a link for your figure of 47%?
YogsVR4
02-16-2005, 05:00 PM
Here's a little something about the number of eligible voters. http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=1039
TRD2000
02-16-2005, 09:31 PM
They are tired of the war and are wanting to move on and move forward with a voice in the way things are run. They are tired of being scared of the very people (insurgents) that pretend to be fighting for their freedom. If these "insurgents" thought for a minute that the people backed them then their would be no need for them to use threats of violence against them.
this actually makes it very difficult to tell who you're talking about, are the "insurgents" the US military? they started the war and started the use of violence against Iraq, they pretend to be fighting for "freedom".
this actually makes it very difficult to tell who you're talking about, are the "insurgents" the US military? they started the war and started the use of violence against Iraq, they pretend to be fighting for "freedom".
Raz_Kaz
02-16-2005, 10:02 PM
Here's a good question.
Should they have allowed the Iraqi's that have left Iraq to vote?
I'm really in between on this and would liek to hear everyone's opinion
Should they have allowed the Iraqi's that have left Iraq to vote?
I'm really in between on this and would liek to hear everyone's opinion
TRD2000
02-16-2005, 10:10 PM
why not? after all they had a prime minister brought in from outside iraq...
Raz_Kaz
02-16-2005, 10:23 PM
That may be but only to have some kind of "control" while they "rebuild" Iraq. But I mean since these poeple don't live in Iraq, why do they have a say in what goes on in that country.
It's like if an American citizen leaves the country for 20 years and decides to vote for some president. Would that be fair?
It's like if an American citizen leaves the country for 20 years and decides to vote for some president. Would that be fair?
TRD2000
02-16-2005, 10:27 PM
true... but isn't the whole point that these people were oppressed and now they are free, shouldn't that mean that those fortunate enough to get out should be free to return, and therefore perhaps should be afforded similar rights as exiled Iraqi's?
I know that as an Australian i like to have a say in how things go despite the fact that i'm out of the country, i fully intend to go back as soon as the evil dictator ass-licker howard is displaced...
I know that as an Australian i like to have a say in how things go despite the fact that i'm out of the country, i fully intend to go back as soon as the evil dictator ass-licker howard is displaced...
T4 Primera
02-16-2005, 10:40 PM
Here's a little something about the number of eligible voters. http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=1039
Thanks for the link Yogs.
Thanks for the link Yogs.
YogsVR4
02-17-2005, 10:33 AM
Here's a good question.
Should they have allowed the Iraqi's that have left Iraq to vote?
I'm really in between on this and would liek to hear everyone's opinion
If they are still registered as citizens, then yes they should be allowed to vote. Its the same in the US, it doesn't matter how long you've been out of the country, you are can still be eligible to vote.
Should they have allowed the Iraqi's that have left Iraq to vote?
I'm really in between on this and would liek to hear everyone's opinion
If they are still registered as citizens, then yes they should be allowed to vote. Its the same in the US, it doesn't matter how long you've been out of the country, you are can still be eligible to vote.
DVS LT1
02-17-2005, 01:46 PM
What I can't get over is that the Suni's are bitching because they want to take part in forming the new government...
How the hell can they expect to if they didn't vote??? I wouldn't be surprised if they were the ones doing all the bombing on election day.
How the hell can they expect to if they didn't vote??? I wouldn't be surprised if they were the ones doing all the bombing on election day.
Raz_Kaz
02-17-2005, 02:23 PM
If they are still registered as citizens, then yes they should be allowed to vote. Its the same in the US, it doesn't matter how long you've been out of the country, you are can still be eligible to vote.
Yea, but since they don't live there anymore, why should they be asllowd to do so?
I mean if you leave a country for over 5 years and then suddenly decide to vote for some reason.
Yea, but since they don't live there anymore, why should they be asllowd to do so?
I mean if you leave a country for over 5 years and then suddenly decide to vote for some reason.
YogsVR4
02-17-2005, 03:01 PM
It would seem that after several years, it would make sense to change your citizenship to wherever it is you're calling home now. However, the people living overseas are still paying their taxes (or at least they are supposed to) and are eligible for its benefits. I would gather most still want their social security when they retire and if they give up that citizenship, they won't get it.
TRD2000
02-17-2005, 03:11 PM
i guess it depends on whether you're planning on going back.... where do you call "home"...
DGB454
02-17-2005, 04:21 PM
this actually makes it very difficult to tell who you're talking about, are the "insurgents" the US military? they started the war and started the use of violence against Iraq, they pretend to be fighting for "freedom".
It was a tongue in cheek description of the "insurgents" who pretend to be fighting for "freedom". A lot of groups call themselves "freedom fighters".
Most actually aren't though.
It was a tongue in cheek description of the "insurgents" who pretend to be fighting for "freedom". A lot of groups call themselves "freedom fighters".
Most actually aren't though.
T4 Primera
02-17-2005, 04:42 PM
It was a tongue in cheek description of the "insurgents" who pretend to be fighting for "freedom". A lot of groups call themselves "freedom fighters".
Most actually aren't though.
An extraordinary new development in Baghdad is that now the AMS is floating a clear proposal: we accept the new elected government as legitimate, as long as it sets a definitive timetable for US withdrawal. Although this is what the overwhelming majority of Iraqis want, nobody - no Shi'ite party, no Kurdish party, not even Sistani himself - is contemplating it at this stage. Baghdad sources tell Asia Times Online that the AMS would even issue a fatwa (religious edict) calling for the end of the resistance if the new government sets a date for US withdrawal in writing - with the United Nations as a watchdog. If true, that would certainly be the only way to lead the Baghdad sniper to retire his rifle.
Source: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GB11Ak02.html
Surely an opportunity like this should be seized with both hands. Isn't this what everyone wants - the US troops out of Iraq?
Most actually aren't though.
An extraordinary new development in Baghdad is that now the AMS is floating a clear proposal: we accept the new elected government as legitimate, as long as it sets a definitive timetable for US withdrawal. Although this is what the overwhelming majority of Iraqis want, nobody - no Shi'ite party, no Kurdish party, not even Sistani himself - is contemplating it at this stage. Baghdad sources tell Asia Times Online that the AMS would even issue a fatwa (religious edict) calling for the end of the resistance if the new government sets a date for US withdrawal in writing - with the United Nations as a watchdog. If true, that would certainly be the only way to lead the Baghdad sniper to retire his rifle.
Source: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GB11Ak02.html
Surely an opportunity like this should be seized with both hands. Isn't this what everyone wants - the US troops out of Iraq?
DGB454
02-17-2005, 06:47 PM
Source: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GB11Ak02.html
Surely an opportunity like this should be seized with both hands. Isn't this what everyone wants - the US troops out of Iraq?
Sure it is. But look at the timing? The elections were fairly successful. This means that the resistance of the insurgents was unsucsessful at stopping the elections which is what they tried to do. Why did they try and stop them? They were afraid of loosing what little power they had in that reigon. When the people run the country the the terrorist have far less furtile ground to grow their group and influence. Now they are trying to fit in wherever they can. At this point the people should for the most part ignore them and any demands or deals they try and make. They are usless now and have no real power other than terrorism. THey should get in line or get out while they have a chance. It appears they are choosing to get in line. Either way it's a good thing to set a date for withdrawal.
Surely an opportunity like this should be seized with both hands. Isn't this what everyone wants - the US troops out of Iraq?
Sure it is. But look at the timing? The elections were fairly successful. This means that the resistance of the insurgents was unsucsessful at stopping the elections which is what they tried to do. Why did they try and stop them? They were afraid of loosing what little power they had in that reigon. When the people run the country the the terrorist have far less furtile ground to grow their group and influence. Now they are trying to fit in wherever they can. At this point the people should for the most part ignore them and any demands or deals they try and make. They are usless now and have no real power other than terrorism. THey should get in line or get out while they have a chance. It appears they are choosing to get in line. Either way it's a good thing to set a date for withdrawal.
T4 Primera
02-17-2005, 08:04 PM
Sure it is. But look at the timing? The elections were fairly successful. This means that the resistance of the insurgents was unsucsessful at stopping the elections which is what they tried to do. Why did they try and stop them? They were afraid of loosing what little power they had in that reigon. When the people run the country the the terrorist have far less furtile ground to grow their group and influence. Now they are trying to fit in wherever they can. At this point the people should for the most part ignore them and any demands or deals they try and make. They are usless now and have no real power other than terrorism. THey should get in line or get out while they have a chance. It appears they are choosing to get in line.
Muqtada AL Sadr's group is one of the most adamant organisations making this demand, even though they stood down from the pre-election violence in deference to Al Sistani.
Either way it's a good thing to set a date for withdrawal.
It certainly is. Let's hope that sanity prevails and an excuse isn't found to not make the agreement.
Muqtada AL Sadr's group is one of the most adamant organisations making this demand, even though they stood down from the pre-election violence in deference to Al Sistani.
Either way it's a good thing to set a date for withdrawal.
It certainly is. Let's hope that sanity prevails and an excuse isn't found to not make the agreement.
Flatrater
02-17-2005, 08:49 PM
Here's a good question.
Should they have allowed the Iraqi's that have left Iraq to vote?
I think they should be allowed to vote.
Why because they are still citizens of Iraq unless they became citizens of another country. Its they same thng if I leave the US to work in another country I am still a US citizen and it still is my right to vote in the elections.
Should they have allowed the Iraqi's that have left Iraq to vote?
I think they should be allowed to vote.
Why because they are still citizens of Iraq unless they became citizens of another country. Its they same thng if I leave the US to work in another country I am still a US citizen and it still is my right to vote in the elections.
Raz_Kaz
02-17-2005, 08:58 PM
Yea but after 5 years gone from the country. Should you still be allowed to vote for the leader of a country that yuo don;t even live in?
Not just in Iraq, in every country.
Not just in Iraq, in every country.
Flatrater
02-17-2005, 09:35 PM
Yea but after 5 years gone from the country. Should you still be allowed to vote for the leader of a country that yuo don;t even live in?
Not just in Iraq, in every country.
What matters more where you live or what country you are a citizen of? What if I was a solider stationed in Germany or Japan? What if i worked for the US government in another country? What if I am a worker for an US company in another country?
Not just in Iraq, in every country.
What matters more where you live or what country you are a citizen of? What if I was a solider stationed in Germany or Japan? What if i worked for the US government in another country? What if I am a worker for an US company in another country?
taranaki
02-18-2005, 01:56 AM
It was a tongue in cheek description of the "insurgents" who pretend to be fighting for "freedom". A lot of groups call themselves "freedom fighters".
Most actually aren't though.
Agreed...notice how much Bush bangs on about freedom?
Most actually aren't though.
Agreed...notice how much Bush bangs on about freedom?
mellowboy
02-18-2005, 04:58 PM
Mellowboy, have you got a link for your figure of 47%?
I believe i saw it somewhere on al jazeera or yahoo. Mostly shia's voted of course. Im sure its nowhere higher than 60%. Its bullshit.
I believe i saw it somewhere on al jazeera or yahoo. Mostly shia's voted of course. Im sure its nowhere higher than 60%. Its bullshit.
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