Is Walmart admitting failure?

Walmart is threatening to close a Canadian store if the unions get a toehold.Does this mean that Walmart is acknowledging that it can't make a profit without exploiting its staff?

Wal-Mart to Close Union-Targeted Store -- Report

By Nat Worden
TheStreet.com Staff Reporter
2/9/2005 4:59 PM EST



Wal-Mart (WMT:NYSE - news - research) said Wednesday that it will close a store in Canada where workers were close to establishing the retail giant's first labor union, according to The Associated Press.

The company plans to close the store in Jonquiere, Quebec, because it says union negotiators are making unreasonable demands that threaten the store's business.

Last week, the United Food and Commercial Workers of Canada asked Quebec labor officials to appoint a mediator in its talks with Wal-Mart in hopes that it would help break a logjam in negotiations.

"We were hoping it wouldn't come to this," Wal-Mart spokesman Andrew Pelletier told the AP. "Despite nine days of meetings over three months, we've been unable to reach an agreement with the union that in our view will allow the store to operate efficiently and profitably."

Any success enjoyed by the Canadian union with Wal-Mart could have ultimately impacted the company's business in the U.S. One of Wal-Mart's competitive advantages is low labor costs. That was especially apparent throughout its recent foray into the grocery business, which prompted massive labor strikes across Southern California as traditional grocery chains attempted to cut health and other benefits to their workers in an attempt to compete.

"Is Wal-Mart sending a message here [about organized labor in its stores] ? It's too soon to tell," said Richard Hastings, retail economist with Variant Research. "It's all about expenses, and Wal-Mart is all about expense controls. The unionization of that store ruins the expense budget for that store, so Wal-Mart definitely looks at it as something to eliminate."


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It would be interesting to find out just what was being demanded by both sides.Do we have any wallyworld workers here who could perhaps shed some light on what it's like to work there?

I don't know which side to take. May I despise them both?

LOL, wallyworld....that use to be a water amusement park where I live...got shut down




Damn you Wal-Mart!!

I hate Wal-Mart. Not b/c of what it stands for or how it invades every town in the world, but b/c of how freaking dirty the stores are. Not to sound like an ass or be judgemental, but i feel dirty everytime i leave the store. No one shopping in there speaks english, hardly. Nothin is ever clean looking or feeling. I know they have "Everyday Low Prices" but that doesnt mean the store has to have the look and feel of "Dirt".

Good eye taranaki. It looks as the largest retail chain in the world is showing a bit of a soft spot when their nickels and dimes come at a worthy and ethical expense. How dare somebody try and raise the standards of the already lower class employee's in exchange of the prosperouses greed. What does that say about Wal-Marts perspective on standard of living? Of coarse this is all hypothetical since I'm no insider.

I hate Wal-Mart. Not b/c of what it stands for or how it invades every town in the world, but b/c of how freaking dirty the stores are. Not to sound like an ass or be judgemental, but i feel dirty everytime i leave the store. No one shopping in there speaks english, hardly. Nothin is ever clean looking or feeling. I know they have "Everyday Low Prices" but that doesnt mean the store has to have the look and feel of "Dirt".

I guess it's different for everybody in different parts of the country. The Wal-Marts in my area are only 2-3 hours away from their world headquaters in Arkansas. The stores are super centers with the normal sized ones gone, very clean and neat looking, and all the people speak english. I have no problem with Wal-Mart and like their selection and prices.

Do we have any wallyworld workers here who could perhaps shed some light on what it's like to work there?

I've had some friends that have worked there and it had its ups and downs. They like the pay and the 10% off all the stuff but they complain about the hours and the shifts you have to work. A couple of people I know had to work the midnight shift during school and couldn't change it and it really stressed them out. The starting hours there are around 30 hours a week and they don't change even if you have school or another job.

If its gonna make prices go up, CRUSH IT.

Or I guess I could just go to K-Mart for my uber-thrifty expenses.

I don't know if this has occurred to any of you, but the same "lower class" workers complaining about pay levels and wanting to unionize are very likely the same people who thoroughly enjoy the discount prices afforded them by Walmart.

That being said, the company can certainly afford to pay them more- but we all know they won't.

Of course we only have one part of the story here. Walmart has 2 stores under union in Canada. Only one has or will close. This will be the first store closed for under performance. Walmart is a union busting company, I am pro labor union even thou I am a republican but this doesn't stop me from shopping at Walmart. I am not a rich man so I go where I can stretch my money the best.


Further inroads in French-Canadian Wal-Marts

BY NICOLE COHEN

The little union that could just got some company.Last week, a Wal-Mart in Saint-Hyacinthe, QC, joined Local 501 of the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW), becoming the second unionized Wal-Mart in North America — out of 3,835 stores — and putting one more chink in the retail giant’s heretofore union-proof armour. The Quebec Labour Relations Commission (QLRC) certified the store after the majority of its 200 employees signed cards designating UFCW as the store’s official collective bargaining agent. That makes two unionized Wal-Marts in Quebec. The first, in Jonquière (see “The Wal-Mart challenge, editorial, Aug. 5, 2004 and “Retail fails, City, Sept. 2, 2004), was certified by the QLRC last August.“This is a victory for the employees in the store and Wal-Mart workers across the country,” says Michael Forman of UFCW Canada. “Wal-Mart workers can see if the majority of workers in their store want a union, they can have one.”It’s not quite that easy, however. Wal-Mart is the world’s largest private employer, with a staff of more than 65,000 in Canada and annual revenue of US$256.3 billion. The corporation is notoriously anti-union (or, as it likes to say, “prefers to remain union-free”) and reportedly employs an effective union-busting team that can appear at any store where workers show signs of organizing. According to reports, workers in the United States have been fired for trying to organize.“It’s a struggle to organize any workplace,” says Forman. The company will resist and the company will intimidate.”Take Jonquière, for example.In October of last year, soon after the store was certified, Wal-Mart circulated a letter stating the outlet was losing money and may have to close. It would have been the first Canadian store Wal-Mart would have ever closed for “under-performance.” And then there’s Weyburn, Sk., where the Saskatchewan Labour Board and the province’s Court of Appeals have both demanded Wal-Mart present internal documents on its anti-union strategies, to no avail. “Whenever there’s been some activity at a store, [Wal-Mart] will do whatever it can to stall the process,” Forman says. Sometimes this means over a period of six months, while cases are in courts or in front of labour boards, management can fire or switch around staff until the people involved with the union drive are gone.In the case of Saint-Hyacinthe, Wal-Mart has said it will fight the QLRC’s decision, and is considering legal action. Wal-Mart Canada spokesperson Andrew Pelletier called the QLRC’s certification “undemocratic.” The company claims the Saint-Hyacinthe employees did not hold a secret ballot vote to determine whether the store should unionize. But, said the UFCW in a press release, Wal-Mart wants a secret ballot vote “so that the company can intimidate their employees to vote against the union.”Employees in Jonquière are currently in negotiations with the store, working on what will be the first collective agreement for Wal-Mart workers in North America. And the UFCW has applications pending to represent workers at 12 other Wal-Marts in Quebec, Saskatchewan and British Columbia.“It’s no longer a fantasy to have a union at Wal-Mart,” Forman says. “It’s hard, but it’s not hopeless.”

I don't know if this has occurred to any of you, but the same "lower class" workers complaining about pay levels and wanting to unionize are very likely the same people who thoroughly enjoy the discount prices afforded them by Walmart.

That being said, the company can certainly afford to pay them more- but we all know they won't.
How much exactly do you want these people to be paid? Without a college degree you can't expect to be making that much money.

We're about to get our third Wal-Mart out here. Champaign Urbana already has 2 and now they're putting a 3rd in Urbana.... Why...? I dont understand why we need that many Wal-Marts, it makes no sense at all. Maybe one or two...or three will get burnt down....

How much exactly do you want these people to be paid? Without a college degree you can't expect to be making that much money.

I agree. Although the company most certainly profits from cheap labor, (which many find appalling on many levels) and can technically afford to pay it's workers more, there is really no incentive (from a business standpoint) to do so. I guarantee that, behind every potential union worker, stand ten more willing to work for minimum wage. And in today's world, without a college degree, beggars can't afford to be choosers. Do I like it? No. Do I undestand? Yes.

I agree. Although the company most certainly profits from cheap labor, (which many find appalling on many levels) and can technically afford to pay it's workers more, there is really no incentive (from a business standpoint) to do so. I guarantee that, behind every potential union worker, stand ten more willing to work for minimum wage. And in today's world, without a college degree, beggars can't afford to be choosers. Do I like it? No. Do I undestand? Yes.
I'm glad you said what you did. I was hoping you weren't going to take what I said as offensive. I do believe that they do offer good benefits for their employees though.

I can't stand Wal-Mart. I hate to sound like a snob, but they're serious dirty a lot of the times, and they tend to attract a lot of the people I don't want to have any contact with. I've been to them in the US and they are bigger, better, and cleaner there, but Canadian ones are pure, utter trash. Disgusting, really.

Also, yes, they do have cheap stuff, but no cheaper than Zellers. I can go to Zellers, shoot cannons down the aisles without hitting anyone, and pay 2 cents more per product. Yes please.

Finally, I've noticed Wal-Mart actually doesn't often have the lowest prices - they only do on what they advertise, and even then it's only several cents cheaper than elsewhere. Many things there end up being more expensive than elsewhere. Also, once, when working for my father (runs his own optometric practice), I went to Wal-Mart and a couple other places to compare the prices of their CL solutions, drops, etc, with the prices at Dad's office. No store had a problem with it except Wal-Mart, where I was asked to immediately leave the store. Apparently they claim to have the cheapest prices, but we'll boot you out if you dare question that.

By the way, most of their CL solutions that I got a chance to compare ended up being on average about 50% more expensive than at Dad's office, a place many people assume they will pay premium price at.

I'm seriously disgusted with the store, and I avoid at all costs.

I agree. Although the company most certainly profits from cheap labor, (which many find appalling on many levels) and can technically afford to pay it's workers more, there is really no incentive (from a business standpoint) to do so. I guarantee that, behind every potential union worker, stand ten more willing to work for minimum wage. And in today's world, without a college degree, beggars can't afford to be choosers. Do I like it? No. Do I undestand? Yes.

I find this lack of buisiness sense to be most lamentable.There are two ways to run a business,and a hundred different variations in between.

The first one is that you pay a decent wage, you attract 100 applicants for every job and you pick the most intelligent and motivated guy for the job.You treat him like an investment, you train him up to the maximum of his abilities, and you keep him informed as to how his efforts are benefitting the company, and how his benefits are increasing as a consequence.Good move.

The second one is that you hire whoever's cheapest.Never mind going for the minimum wage guy, go for the long term unemployed, who comes with a subsidy or a tax break.Yell at him until he understands the bare minimum to do his job,and get as much work out of him as you can before he resents your behaviour so much that you catch him stealing candy bars and sack him.There's plenty more losers like him out there to farm, so it makes sense to go wiyth the cheapest,and as few of them as possible, right?Wrong. read the thread again.The cusatomers don't like shopping in dirty,crowded stores.The stores are dirty and crowded because your wage slaves know that the boss doesn't care about them,so why should they put in more than a minimal effort for a minimum wage?Bad move.

It may just be the fact that NZ has the lowest rate of unemployment in the world,but good staff are hard to find here.Bad staff are easy enough to hire, but if you do, you have to assign a good staff member to watch over them, otherwise they will compromise the quality of your product.Surely it makes much better business sense to set the bar high and pick and choose the best?

As for college degrees,some of the people who have them are an utter waste of space,and some of the people who don't go on to become millionaires.It's not your ability to retain information that gets you ahead in this world,it's how you process information and act on it that matters.

the company can certainly afford to pay them more- but we all know they won't.

That would definitely seem to be the case. Their big competitor Costco, although a bit different in terms of products available, pays excellent wages. My girlfriend has worked part time at Costco for 4+ years and she hit top wage in like 2 years - she makes about $22/hr working on cash, in the vault, or the cigarette cage- more money per hr still being a student than I currently make in my career following University and post-degree College. :loser: She says its no wonder older and less educated people stay there, or even younger people who become "for-lifers" - its because they can actually achieve a $45+k salary in just a few years, for doing practically nothing.

The fact that Walmart pays poor or unfair wages (compared to profit) just goes along with their bottom-line ideology of lowest prices & costs. I'd be interested to learn what their executive and managerial salaries are like, because the fact that this company is doing extremely well and making these policies work says that they have good management. Now are they the ones getting rewarded or simply being scared shitless by the guy on top? (mr. walmart) Then again, if they were good why would they stay or fear leaving...

I've got a friend who is a manager of a WalMart store. Stores vary depending on how much business they get, but he's in a small store, gets a salary of about 45K with potential to make 80-100K bonus each year depending on incentives. He put up with the terrible pay for several years while making his way to management. I've talked to him about the low wages; the area he works in is quite rural, and his position is that they (WalMart) are bringing jobs to where there were none before. This may be a valid point way out in the middle of nowhere, but not in the big city.

The cheap labor force that's mentioned in several posts is a keystone of many businesses, including fast food. McDonald's, Burger King, and all the rest employ teens or anyone else that will work for low salary. Their goal is to have a zero-training environment where they can plug in the next low wage earner with a minumum or complete lack of training. Turnover is actually good for these businesses, as they don't allow word of mouth spread of unionization. McD's in specific has closed hundreds of stores where organized labor began to appear. They've closed stores, fired everyone there, and opened new stores a couple blocks away and hired all new staff.

I think that WalMart's Canadian situation may be a test to see if it's cheaper to close a store and fire the employees or have a union in place.

You're right about others doing it too - "high turnover" believe it or not is actually a strategy for some businesses...

Yes; why keep someone on for more than 6 months so they can get a raise and can start their benefits? Make it so miserable that they'll quit the job, there's another person behind them that will take minumum wage.

So you guys would rather pay higher prices so the unskilled employees who stock shelves for a living could make more money an hour.

There is no skill in taking a can out of a box and putting it on the shelf. Its not like they even have to put the price on the can. The job doesn't merit 10 dollars a hour.

Increasing employee salaries increases overhead of the store and they would be forced to raise prices which is against the business model that Walmart likes to have.

BTW I have a friend that works in Walmart in my town he makes 9 dollars a hour, has stock options, medical benifits all to put an item on a shelf in the auto department. Not bad for unskilled work. At my job we just hired a new mechanic out of trade school which costs 13K and he needed 3K worth of tools to do his job and he makes 10 dollars a hour.

I agree with you Naki- but welcome to the disgusting realm of American business as many companies see it. There's a reason for that thread on ethical business practices/investment in this section. Turnover is abominable, the stores may be rancid, but as long as the company is turning a huge profit, which it is, it hardly matters. I certainly don't think it's an ethical, responsible or efficient way to do business. Hell, the employees at my local Walmart are rude, unhelpful and look like they recently emerged from a dumpster. Obviously they are not an "investment", but a hastily trained set of empty heads with the slight ability to grudgingly perform a set of repetetive, menial tasks. Many will find these employees and the condition of the stores appalling- some won't care. Obviously, the company isn't struggling- so I suppose it's clear where the majority stands. Perhaps at a certain point the company will have to re-evaluate, proritize and restructure- but for now it's profit, greed and exploitation. It seems to be a common trend in this country. It's really too bad, because we could easily be better than we are.

The smartest person I know is a voracious independent learner, eloquent speaker, thinker and writer who never earned his degree. Unfortunately, companies don't have the time, patience or ability to evaluate on a deep personal level. That piece of paper is powerful, albeit meaningless in many cases.

Gotta love how all the Waltons are near the top of the World's Richest lists...:rolleyes:

So you guys would rather pay higher prices so the unskilled employees who stock shelves for a living could make more money an hour.

There is no skill in taking a can out of a box and putting it on the shelf. Its not like they even have to put the price on the can. The job doesn't merit 10 dollars a hour.

At my job we just hired a new mechanic out of trade school which costs 13K and he needed 3K worth of tools to do his job and he makes 10 dollars a hour.


First assumption is wrong, as is the second.A few years back, I did a spell in the grocery industry in a university town.There is skill in anything if you can refine it to its simplest form.I had a crew of about 30 people filling shelves for me, they worked from 8pm to midnight and fell into two distinct groups.There were the lumpy housewives, whoseonly motivation was the pitiful money that they got from stacking the shelves, and the varsity students, who were hired to muscle the cartons from the back store into the aisles.Because we needed that job done quickly, we made it a 'job and finish' arrangement.It was educational to watch the guys tearing around, working up a sweat but still considering their every move to get the job done as quickly and effectively as possible while the dullards just plodded along, watching the clock and gas bagging to each other.The guys got paid 4 hours, but seldom worked more than two. In terms of real pay, they were earning more per hour than I was to supervise them.Didn't cost the company a cent extra in wages, but if they'd cut the rate and insisted that the job be done in two hours, only idiots would apply for it.There's no skill in donkey work, but with the right incentives, it can be done far more efficiently.

As to your mechanic, your boss ought to be ashamed of himself.But then the mechanic deserves crap money if he's willing to invest 16k just to get a foot in the door.

First assumption is wrong, as is the second.A few years back, I did a spell in the grocery industry in a university town.There is skill in anything if you can refine it to its simplest form.I had a crew of about 30 people filling shelves for me, they worked from 8pm to midnight and fell into two distinct groups.There were the lumpy housewives, whoseonly motivation was the pitiful money that they got from stacking the shelves, and the varsity students, who were hired to muscle the cartons from the back store into the aisles.Because we needed that job done quickly, we made it a 'job and finish' arrangement.It was educational to watch the guys tearing around, working up a sweat but still considering their every move to get the job done as quickly and effectively as possible while the dullards just plodded along, watching the clock and gas bagging to each other.The guys got paid 4 hours, but seldom worked more than two. In terms of real pay, they were earning more per hour than I was to supervise them.Didn't cost the company a cent extra in wages, but if they'd cut the rate and insisted that the job be done in two hours, only idiots would apply for it.There's no skill in donkey work, but with the right incentives, it can be done far more efficiently.

As to your mechanic, your boss ought to be ashamed of himself.But then the mechanic deserves crap money if he's willing to invest 16k just to get a foot in the door.


I also several years back spent 3 years working in a grocery store stocking shelves. So I know the skill level needed to do the job. Any trained monkey could do the job. Back when I did the job I had to put the price on the cans no fancy scanner.

I think its great what you did letting the guys go home early, that's a nice gesture on your part. But you still didn't increase their base pay. The got the same pay per hour if they stayed 4 hours or 2 hours. All you did was give them an incentive to bust ass and get the job done. No problem with that since that is how I earn my living now. The faster I do my job the more money I make. Speed is the object quality doesn't factor into it.

As for the mechanic we hired that is the going rate of pay in my area. You can get several jobs for the same pay around here. We mechanics do the job we do because we enjoy doing it, that is our reward. Now our incentives make the job worthwhile when we are busy. I can double my weekly paycheck without working any extra hours.

There is no skill in taking a can out of a box and putting it on the shelf. Its not like they even have to put the price on the can. The job doesn't merit 10 dollars a hour.

You'd be surprised how hard it can be. Considering how many people don't put items back where they belong, or simply make a mess. Understanding the inventory and ordering systems takes while to get used to - pushing around 900lbs. worth of merchandise isn't easy either.
Been there, done that, it's not worth $10.00 but it's certainly hard enough to warrant higher than minimum wage (and most places do pay higher than minimum for these services).
The worst part was having stupid customers ask the stupidest questions.
I would think it'd be very funny though, if the union in Canada was making outrageous demands - such as maybe having a swimming pool, and giving every employee a motorized scooter for use in the store.