Has anyone tried this?
Toy Man
03-17-2002, 05:57 PM
I am reading 'Shifting into 4WD' by Harry Lewellyn (recommended) and he mentions that some SUV's with auto transmission can shift into reverse for going forward down steep sections. I immediately went to a local 14% grade and yes - it seemed to work. I went VERY slowly forward but could only test it for a short distance and 14% is not that steep for 4x4'ing.
Has anyone done this on steep sections?
Results?
Any thoughts - good idea or bad idea?
Toy Man
Has anyone done this on steep sections?
Results?
Any thoughts - good idea or bad idea?
Toy Man
scott.com
03-17-2002, 09:03 PM
When I was a teenager I tried shift into reverse while going forward in my parents Toyota.
Wow what a horrible sound that was.
:eek:
Wow what a horrible sound that was.
:eek:
Kerensky97
03-17-2002, 09:36 PM
I've never done that but I understand how it would work.
It's letting the torque converter take up most of the stress and the tranny clutches do the rest.
If its for a short time then there won't be any damage, BUT that's alot of stress I don't want to put a delicate instrument through.
The Xterra has a good crawl ratio in 4Lo and 1st gear and the brakes can keep you from going to fast on the REALLY steep downhills. So you might as well do it the old fasioned way.
When I get money I'm going to get the Calmini Transfer case gears to make the crawl ration even better.
It's letting the torque converter take up most of the stress and the tranny clutches do the rest.
If its for a short time then there won't be any damage, BUT that's alot of stress I don't want to put a delicate instrument through.
The Xterra has a good crawl ratio in 4Lo and 1st gear and the brakes can keep you from going to fast on the REALLY steep downhills. So you might as well do it the old fasioned way.
When I get money I'm going to get the Calmini Transfer case gears to make the crawl ration even better.
Schludwiller
03-17-2002, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Kerensky97
When I get money I'm going to get the Calmini Transfer case gears to make the crawl ration even better.
Good we need Guinea Pigs. :D I would like a set myself, probably get those before lockers, but I don't want to be the first one.
When I get money I'm going to get the Calmini Transfer case gears to make the crawl ration even better.
Good we need Guinea Pigs. :D I would like a set myself, probably get those before lockers, but I don't want to be the first one.
xoc
03-18-2002, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by Schludwiller
Good we need Guinea Pigs. :D I would like a set myself, probably get those before lockers, but I don't want to be the first one.
I'll let you know after goneMOAB, there will be two vehicles running them there (not mine though).
Good we need Guinea Pigs. :D I would like a set myself, probably get those before lockers, but I don't want to be the first one.
I'll let you know after goneMOAB, there will be two vehicles running them there (not mine though).
Xlax
03-18-2002, 07:32 PM
Real men drive stickshift......
warmonger
03-19-2002, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by Xlax
Real men drive stickshift......
Each has their advantages and disadvantages (auto vs. manual) depending on what conditions you drive in. But, that being said, the best investment I have made so far has been the lockers. Down the road I will put a crawl gear in, but with the lockers you can easily crawl over most obstacles while LSDs and opens have to use momentum and wheel speed, leaving huge ruts everywhere they go. I have learned over the time of having my lockers that momentum is how people take damage. You are far less likely to take hits when the vehicle is doing 5 mph than when it is doing 25 mph. It is also nice to have the option to stop in the middle of something without having to worry about whether you will be able to regain traction. One of the nice things about the ARBs is the ability to determine which locker you want to use. If you are heading up a hill that is soft and slightly off-camber, the locker can send you downhill real quick. To alleviate this you have the option of turning off one locker while the other is on. This can help prevent the downhill slide while you still have at least one locker going in the area that is not off-camber. Most of the folks I off-road with feel the best first investment you can make in driveline is the locker and I agree. You will get superior crawl ratio from a low gear, but you still have an open diff truck with a minor change in mechanical advantage. With a locker install you have a truck that has gone from 2 1/2 wheel drive (LSD Xterras) to true 4WD. That is a huge mechanical advantage if you can afford it.
Real men drive stickshift......
Each has their advantages and disadvantages (auto vs. manual) depending on what conditions you drive in. But, that being said, the best investment I have made so far has been the lockers. Down the road I will put a crawl gear in, but with the lockers you can easily crawl over most obstacles while LSDs and opens have to use momentum and wheel speed, leaving huge ruts everywhere they go. I have learned over the time of having my lockers that momentum is how people take damage. You are far less likely to take hits when the vehicle is doing 5 mph than when it is doing 25 mph. It is also nice to have the option to stop in the middle of something without having to worry about whether you will be able to regain traction. One of the nice things about the ARBs is the ability to determine which locker you want to use. If you are heading up a hill that is soft and slightly off-camber, the locker can send you downhill real quick. To alleviate this you have the option of turning off one locker while the other is on. This can help prevent the downhill slide while you still have at least one locker going in the area that is not off-camber. Most of the folks I off-road with feel the best first investment you can make in driveline is the locker and I agree. You will get superior crawl ratio from a low gear, but you still have an open diff truck with a minor change in mechanical advantage. With a locker install you have a truck that has gone from 2 1/2 wheel drive (LSD Xterras) to true 4WD. That is a huge mechanical advantage if you can afford it.
Toy Man
03-19-2002, 06:16 AM
the best investment I have made so far has been the lockers.
Absolutely - without a doubt.....
If you want to drive off-road, this is the BEST use of your money.
It is hard to convey the difference lockers make.
Lockers would be the first mod installed on my X if I
was starting over. No wait - the second mod. First would
be rock sliderz because lockers will take you 'in harm's way'.
IE., they will take you places you would not even think of
going without them.
Absolutely - without a doubt.....
If you want to drive off-road, this is the BEST use of your money.
It is hard to convey the difference lockers make.
Lockers would be the first mod installed on my X if I
was starting over. No wait - the second mod. First would
be rock sliderz because lockers will take you 'in harm's way'.
IE., they will take you places you would not even think of
going without them.
wilburburns
03-19-2002, 01:39 PM
I've never tried this while wheeling, but I often times use this same technique while launching a boat. Actually, this is how my father taught me to do it. Basically, keep the vehicle in a forward gear while backing down the ramp with a boat. That way, if the brakes go out, you can use the engine to stop the vehicle.
This should also work wheeling.
However, I drive a manual tranny, so I can't test it out for you..:cool:
Cliff
This should also work wheeling.
However, I drive a manual tranny, so I can't test it out for you..:cool:
Cliff
ScottG
03-19-2002, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Xlax
Real men drive stickshift......
That statement belongs on a gay men's message board... :D
Real men drive stickshift......
That statement belongs on a gay men's message board... :D
OffroadX
03-20-2002, 10:13 AM
I've neglected to shift out of D1-lo after failing to climb a hill, and proceeded to roll back down (on the brakes) and every time it kills the engine. Have to shift into reverse or it dies.
Brent
Brent
Schludwiller
03-20-2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Toy Man
Absolutely - without a doubt.....
If you want to drive off-road, this is the BEST use of your money.
It is hard to convey the difference lockers make.
Lockers would be the first mod installed on my X if I
was starting over. No wait - the second mod. First would
be rock sliderz because lockers will take you 'in harm's way'.
IE., they will take you places you would not even think of
going without them.
Hmmmmm....I was about to agree with you and Warmonger, but I thought about it some more. And I'll qualify this with the statement that everyone has different needs and different terrain based on where they live and how they wheel.
I would still rather get the low gearing before an ARB locker. I don't know if you guys have standard transmissions, but the clutch continues to be a weak spot in the Xterra. With the lower gearing I would reduce wear on the clutch. Also with lower gearing I would be using it ALL the time that I'm out wheeling (less stress on the drivetrain, more control from being able to drive slower, etc). A locker is used in certain difficult situations, but you don't benefit from it in 95% of your offroading. If I tended to be out alone a lot, I would get one, because being stuck would be very bad. But I never wheel alone, and I'm almost always out with our club. We have lots of stock vehicles in our club, so there isn't much advantage in me having a truck that can go places the rest can't follow. Because of that we plan our trail rides accordingly. It might be helpful to show off what I can drive up, but I'll have to drive back down to join the rest of the crew. Lastly our terrain tends to be steep hill climbs and rocky surfaces. Lower gearing lets you attack those trails at a lower speed and with more control. A locker would help in slick and or off-camber situations, but you're still in a situation with the stock gearing where you have to maintain a certain speed to keep from stalling.
Like I said different driving, different environment, different needs. Just wanted to share my side of the equation.
Absolutely - without a doubt.....
If you want to drive off-road, this is the BEST use of your money.
It is hard to convey the difference lockers make.
Lockers would be the first mod installed on my X if I
was starting over. No wait - the second mod. First would
be rock sliderz because lockers will take you 'in harm's way'.
IE., they will take you places you would not even think of
going without them.
Hmmmmm....I was about to agree with you and Warmonger, but I thought about it some more. And I'll qualify this with the statement that everyone has different needs and different terrain based on where they live and how they wheel.
I would still rather get the low gearing before an ARB locker. I don't know if you guys have standard transmissions, but the clutch continues to be a weak spot in the Xterra. With the lower gearing I would reduce wear on the clutch. Also with lower gearing I would be using it ALL the time that I'm out wheeling (less stress on the drivetrain, more control from being able to drive slower, etc). A locker is used in certain difficult situations, but you don't benefit from it in 95% of your offroading. If I tended to be out alone a lot, I would get one, because being stuck would be very bad. But I never wheel alone, and I'm almost always out with our club. We have lots of stock vehicles in our club, so there isn't much advantage in me having a truck that can go places the rest can't follow. Because of that we plan our trail rides accordingly. It might be helpful to show off what I can drive up, but I'll have to drive back down to join the rest of the crew. Lastly our terrain tends to be steep hill climbs and rocky surfaces. Lower gearing lets you attack those trails at a lower speed and with more control. A locker would help in slick and or off-camber situations, but you're still in a situation with the stock gearing where you have to maintain a certain speed to keep from stalling.
Like I said different driving, different environment, different needs. Just wanted to share my side of the equation.
Kerensky97
03-21-2002, 12:32 AM
Lockers and Lower gearing are about neck and neck with me too.
Lockers would help to get around the problem of having IFS and make lifting a wheel into less of a problem.
Lower T-case gearing would improve going down steep inclines (I have an Automatic), and it would improve my crawl ratio so I could ease my way up obstacles.
The whole situation is moot anyway since it wil be awhile before I can afford either.
Now back to the original question.
You can keep going down in reverse but I think you'll be ok in 4LO, 1st gear. There aren't many trails where 1st and a little braking won't work and I don't think an Xterra has done any of them. ;)
Lockers would help to get around the problem of having IFS and make lifting a wheel into less of a problem.
Lower T-case gearing would improve going down steep inclines (I have an Automatic), and it would improve my crawl ratio so I could ease my way up obstacles.
The whole situation is moot anyway since it wil be awhile before I can afford either.
Now back to the original question.
You can keep going down in reverse but I think you'll be ok in 4LO, 1st gear. There aren't many trails where 1st and a little braking won't work and I don't think an Xterra has done any of them. ;)
lemsip
03-21-2002, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Kerensky97
aren't many trails where 1st and a little braking won't work and I don't think an Xterra has done any of them. ;)
Almost..
http://www.rmxc.org/gallery/laborday05.jpg
Image from RMXC.org
aren't many trails where 1st and a little braking won't work and I don't think an Xterra has done any of them. ;)
Almost..
http://www.rmxc.org/gallery/laborday05.jpg
Image from RMXC.org
Toy Man
07-11-2002, 06:59 PM
Thought I would bring this up-to-date.
I tried the downhill in reverse 'trick' with
my automatic on a steep paved stretch.
It started off VERY slow, the engine bucked
2 or 3 times and then died. I was trying to
guide a 4000 lb sled to the bottom without
power steering or power brakes - difficult.
Good thing is was a short section with a clear
run-out at the bottom.
Not being too bright, I tried it again.
Same results.
However I recently read about another
technique that I will try when I get back
from vacation.
Toy Man.
I tried the downhill in reverse 'trick' with
my automatic on a steep paved stretch.
It started off VERY slow, the engine bucked
2 or 3 times and then died. I was trying to
guide a 4000 lb sled to the bottom without
power steering or power brakes - difficult.
Good thing is was a short section with a clear
run-out at the bottom.
Not being too bright, I tried it again.
Same results.
However I recently read about another
technique that I will try when I get back
from vacation.
Toy Man.
OffroadX
07-12-2002, 08:31 AM
I've inadvertently tried the opposite on several occasions, trying to climb a hill, failing, and forgetting to shift out of D1 as I roll back down on the brakes. Kills it every time.
Brent
Brent
Toy Man
08-31-2002, 10:19 AM
Last weekend I had a chance to try a new
technique using my automatic on steep
downhills.
I put the brakes on about 1/3 to 1/2 way and
then accelerated just enough to move the X
downhill while keeping the brakes on.
It seemed to work very well on hard packed
dirt with a loose dirt over-layer.
This is from Keith Hart's EXCELLENT
off-road driving manual at
Keith Hart (http://www.geocities.com/~landroverpty/keith.htm)
Did not have a chance to do a comparison
with braking alone and haven't tried it
on slippery surfaces.
If you have tried this, I would welcome
your feedback.
Toy Man
technique using my automatic on steep
downhills.
I put the brakes on about 1/3 to 1/2 way and
then accelerated just enough to move the X
downhill while keeping the brakes on.
It seemed to work very well on hard packed
dirt with a loose dirt over-layer.
This is from Keith Hart's EXCELLENT
off-road driving manual at
Keith Hart (http://www.geocities.com/~landroverpty/keith.htm)
Did not have a chance to do a comparison
with braking alone and haven't tried it
on slippery surfaces.
If you have tried this, I would welcome
your feedback.
Toy Man
evansxterr
09-17-2002, 03:02 PM
I know the X won't do it but sheesh,what a sight!! I saw a semi truck (Autocar) at a delivery site once that did somthing amazing. The driver inadvertantly let the truck start rolling backward when he was in a forward gear, it emitted a horrible noise and then began smoking somthing horrendous. Turns out that the engine (cant remember the make) can end up running backwards in this situation. It turns the exhaust into an intake and intake into exhaust etc. It equals instant death for the air filter but supposidly thats it. :D
OffroadX
09-17-2002, 09:59 PM
A diesel could very well run backwards, since the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber near TDC. On gasoline engines, it's not possible since it gets injected into the intake side, which is the exhaust side if it were running backwards.
Brent
Brent
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