Loud Lifter Knock/Missing coolant/Intake Manifold Gasket

I decided to start my own thread on this issue rather than hose up someone else's thread.

2000 GMC Jimmy 4.3. 61,000 miles. Just started with a loud lifter knock over the weekend. Oil and coolant change less than 1000 miles ago. I checked the under side of the oil filler cap and saw what I thought was a lot of moisture. The oil does not appear to muddy. However it does appear to be slightly more full than I remember filling it at the last oil change. The coolant in the plastic reservoir tank is also a little lower, but that could be from working the air out of the system from the last flush.

I immediately started to suspect the intake manifold gasket. Does anyone have a service bulletin number on this? Is there a good test to prove if it is the Intake Manifold gasket or not?

I'm still under an extended warranty and I don't want a run around at the Stealership when I take it in. I'm sure they're going to tell me something like I need an Oil additive to quiet the lifters or Aluma-seal for the Radiator.

Any Help or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry, there is a slight typo in my first thread. The Oil does not appear to BE muddy at all. It is a golden honey brown color.

Is there a test to see if there is coolant in the oil?

I saw your thread and decided to cut and paste my reply to an earlier thread I replied to. I hope you don't have the same problem.

I have a 99 Jimmy with 106,000 miles. I kept up with oil change every 2-3000 miles, flushed the coolant system a number of times. Just before Christmas I was having trouble with no heat and engine overheating. After the heating problem was fixed the motor developed a tick or knock to it. Apparently with the intake leaking coolant it was also leaking internally and was not visible during oil changes. Basically the motor is junk. Rebulding what I had was just as expensive and the warranty didn't compare to what I could get from Jasper.

Rick, what oil filter are you using?

What grade of oil?

Have you ever done an engine flush?

Rick, what oil filter are you using?

What grade of oil?

Have you ever done an engine flush?

I normally use the AC Delco PF52 filter, however the last two oil changes my local Autozone was out of them, so I bought the STP Brand for this engine. (The only other choice was FRAM, which is a big NO-NO.) I used Castrol GTX 10W-30. (All of the local parts stores and even the Stealerships tell you to use 10W-30 oil here in the Phoenix area. very few of them even carry 5W-30.)

I bought this Truck 1½ years ago and it had 30,000 miles on it and have never done an engine/crankcase flush.

I stopped at My local Autozone and picked up a new Oil change last night on my way home from work and bought Castrol 5W-30 and another STP filter (they're STILL out of AC Delco!). I am going to make an appointment with the Stealer today and will probably have to leave the truck with them overnight so they can hear the noise in the morning upon cold start-up.

I am afraid if I do a crankcase flush or go to the 5W-30 oil, I might mask an even bigger problem, as I do know three things:

1, I have a very loud lifter noise on cold start-up (that just started Sunday morning) that goes away after 2-3 minutes.

2, I seem to be using a little coolant (approx. 1 quart in 1000 miles since my flush in January).

3, There was moisture in the oil filler cap when I checked it yesterday. I wiped the moisture out of the cap and filler neck and will check it again today.

As I stated earlier, I have an extended warranty on this truck and don't want to risk screwing that up. If it is the intake manifold gasket or some other major issue, I don't want to find out after the warranty is over.

Just for the record, what brand of crankcase flush do you recommend?

well, i have a 95 gmc jimmy, that has had buckoos of mechanics look at it, and have put alot of money it...anybody know what would make the truck idle badly...even though after it's run awhile...it seems to be fine? also...there is an overpowering gas fume the whole time it's running...and black watery soot comes from the tailpipe...it has no scent...but literally will coat the ground instantly upon a cold start-up...sorry about my lack of knowledge...i'm a nursing student...who has time for mechanics class too? lol...Kelly

well, i have a 95 gmc jimmy, that has had buckoos of mechanics look at it, and have put alot of money it...anybody know what would make the truck idle badly...even though after it's run awhile...it seems to be fine? also...there is an overpowering gas fume the whole time it's running...and black watery soot comes from the tailpipe...it has no scent...but literally will coat the ground instantly upon a cold start-up...sorry about my lack of knowledge...i'm a nursing student...who has time for mechanics class too? lol...Kelly


You might want to start your own thread on this problem, however, please give us more information. Where do you smell the gasoline odor? Inside the truck? in the engine compartment? At the exhaust pipe? Have any of these "Mechanics" ever done a basic Tune-up, Plugs wires etc. Have you ever seen your "Check Engine" Light light up on the dashboard? It almost sounds like you're running too rich and I would suspect the Oxygen sensors, however, please respond back with more information so we can try to help you.

Rick

You might want to start your own thread on this problem, however, please give us more information. Where do you smell the gasoline odor? Inside the truck? in the engine compartment? At the exhaust pipe? Have any of these "Mechanics" ever done a basic Tune-up, Plugs wires etc. Have you ever seen your "Check Engine" Light light up on the dashboard? It almost sounds like you're running too rich and I would suspect the Oxygen sensors, however, please respond back with more information so we can try to help you.

Rick hello Rick, sorry about screwing up my first msg here...i smell the gasoline odor in the truck...as well as outside...has had a complete tune-up...one oxygen sensor was supposed to have been put on last year...but whether it really was or not, i don't know. check engine light stays on mostly...one mechanic told me the soot was because it was flooding so bad...too much gas coming through...but he had no suggestions....about 6 months ago i had a mechanic look at it because it would just die if u came to a stop...anywhere. He put a screen over something...ran great..for about 24 hrs., then the same thing. I just put a new controle module in it for my 4wd...as well as oil change, heater coil(this makes the 2nd one), and flushing the radiator. I also had a cadilic convertor put on...and some kinda valve that has a pin that is supposed to pop in and out...but mine was stuck...when i start it, gas fumes are really strong, and it idles like it wants to quit, then idles higher, then almost dies again...hope this helps...ty Kelly

You have multiple issues here. Go to Autozone and have them read the codes for you. Write the actual code numbers down and come back and post them here. The EGR Valve is probably bad among other things. These "mechanics" that you refer to are not. Stay away from these guys and stay away from the dealerships unless you have a alot of money.

I normally use the AC Delco PF52 filter, however the last two oil changes my local Autozone was out of them, so I bought the STP Brand for this engine. (The only other choice was FRAM, which is a big NO-NO.) I used Castrol GTX 10W-30. (All of the local parts stores and even the Stealerships tell you to use 10W-30 oil here in the Phoenix area. very few of them even carry 5W-30.)

I bought this Truck 1½ years ago and it had 30,000 miles on it and have never done an engine/crankcase flush.

I stopped at My local Autozone and picked up a new Oil change last night on my way home from work and bought Castrol 5W-30 and another STP filter (they're STILL out of AC Delco!). I am going to make an appointment with the Stealer today and will probably have to leave the truck with them overnight so they can hear the noise in the morning upon cold start-up.

I am afraid if I do a crankcase flush or go to the 5W-30 oil, I might mask an even bigger problem, as I do know three things:

1, I have a very loud lifter noise on cold start-up (that just started Sunday morning) that goes away after 2-3 minutes.

2, I seem to be using a little coolant (approx. 1 quart in 1000 miles since my flush in January).

3, There was moisture in the oil filler cap when I checked it yesterday. I wiped the moisture out of the cap and filler neck and will check it again today.

As I stated earlier, I have an extended warranty on this truck and don't want to risk screwing that up. If it is the intake manifold gasket or some other major issue, I don't want to find out after the warranty is over.

Just for the record, what brand of crankcase flush do you recommend?

The coolant you are losing is actually probably the air pockets in the system being displaced.

Yea, I recommend an engine flush if you are not leaking oil. Just add a bottle of engine flush to a warm engine and allow it to idle for 30-40 minutes to dissolve out the crud and sludge in the engine. Remember, ONLY IDLE. Also, I recommend swapping on a cheap fram filter while you are doing the flush so it catches all the gunk coming out of the engine. The filter will be plugged in 30-40 minutes so it is best to have a fresh filter on there while doing it. Then drop the oil and the cheap filter and install your new oil and a good non-fram filter. Also note, to get all of the flush out, I recommend pouring a bit of fresh oil in while the drain plug is out to get all of the old oil out of the pan.

Now if you are me and you want to do a really GOOD FLUSH, drop the old oil before you do the flush and add 3 quarts of some bargain basement 10w30 in with the engine flush and the cheap filter so you get the best flush possible. Remember, you are only doing this once, so the extra $10 will go a long way. You will be amazing how dirty the new oil comes out with the flush. Then drain, and add the new filter and the new 5w30 oil with a little new oil in through the fill so you can get it all out of the pan like I stated earlier.

The knock at startup is usually a oil problem.

Also, moisture under the oil fill cap is normal.

Come to think of it, The STP number is the same as the FRAM number. (Oh $hit$ki) What brand (if any) engine cleaner do you suggest? Please don't tell me Seafoam! (LOL)

The Gunk brand I had a great experience with.

Follow the instructions above.

The Gunk brand I had a great experience with.

Follow the instructions above.


Thanks Man, I 'll get some on the way home! Thanks for turning the light on about the STP Filters. You ought to run that website again for all those that missed it the first time.

Remeber to buy two filters.

One junk fram for the flush and a good filter for the new fill.

Remember to run a little oil down into the crankcase to get rid of all the excess oil with the flush.

Just because I'm old and dense:

Should I add the quart of cleaner to cheap oil and junk filter after I drain the existing oil out, and then start the engine,

or

Should I add the 3 quarts of cheap oil, junk filter, warm up the engine, and then add the cleaner?

Can you clarify the question, sounds like both of the situations are identical.

1) Do I drain the bad oil and add the cleaner along with the cheap oil when the engine is cold, then start the engine?

or

2) Drain the bad oil add the 3 quarts of the cheap oil, start the engine, then add the cleaner after the engine is warmed up?

I would take the engine for a drive with the old oil in it and then park it, drain it and add the cheap oil and flush and idle it for 30-45 minutes.

Remember to install the cheap oil filter for the flush process.

If you are still losing coolant after all this eee me and I'll tell you how to send a sample of oil and I'll test it for coolant contamination at the lab I manage.

Keeley---where did you go with the codes. Fuel smell counds like cpi along with a host of other things.

I would take the engine for a drive with the old oil in it and then park it, drain it and add the cheap oil and flush and idle it for 30-45 minutes.

Remember to install the cheap oil filter for the flush process.


Well I got 'er done. I bought the "Gunk" brand engine cleaner and the cheapest 10W-30 oil on the shelf. Drained the bad oil installed a new (Cheap) STP filter and added the cheap oil and flush and ran the engine. The bottle said 5 minutes AT IDLE. I went for a "Little" longer and drained the the system againand dumped a 1/2 qt. of castrol GTX 10W-30 left over from a previous flush. Then filled the system with 5W-30. Well the oil was so clean that I couldn't see it on the dip stick. I'll let you know about the knock in the Morning.

*sigh*

Too bad you can't follow directions.

I SAID 30 MINUTES!

*sigh*

Too bad you can't follow directions.

I SAID 30 MINUTES!


But I did follow directions. And thanks to you, I no longer have the loud knock. In fact I used to hear the tappets rattling all the time even before the loud knock started. When I started the engine this morning, it was the quietest start-up I think I've ever had. The Loud knock as well as all the little rattling knocks were gone! And hopefully this will cure the problem, permanently.

I highly recommend this procedure as a regular part of your overall Maintenance program. I wouldn't do it every oil change, but once a year for sure.

Thanks again BlazerLT.

Glad I helped you. :D

I would only do this procedure maybe every 50,000 miles.

Just make sure you use a good oil and filter and by all means go to synthetic if you never want to have the sludging happening again.

Glad I helped you. :D

I would only do this procedure maybe every 50,000 miles.

Just make sure you use a good oil and filter and by all means go to synthetic if you never want to have the sludging happening again.

I don't know if it has been available everywhere else or not, but the Wal-mart in my area just started selling a Mobil1 extended life oil guaranteed for 15,000 miles. The parts stores don't carry it yet.

My area is usually behind the times so you guys probably already know about it.

Glad I helped you. :D

I would only do this procedure maybe every 50,000 miles.

Just make sure you use a good oil and filter and by all means go to synthetic if you never want to have the sludging happening again.

Is there anything special that I should do when switching from Fossil Oil to Synthetic?

Of Course, I know that I have to change the filter, but is the Standard AC Delco PF52 filter still o.k. to use with Synthetic oil or is a special filter required? Pardon my ignorance, but I've never used sythetic oil before.


Thanks again, and BTW the cost of the cheap oil and filter was $7.00 USD and the "Gunk" Flush was $2.50. Well worth the cost.

That is a very new oil made and marketed by mobil. They have also added other products to their line. Mobil has not disclosed who is going to carry the products but is planning a big promo around the daytona 500 race.

I've heard about it and it sounds like it is good oil but to be completely honest, it won't be worth the money.

You can get 15,000 miles with standard Mobil 1 synthetic most of the time now anyways.

Just remember you will have to replace the oil filter at 7500 miles.

Nothing special needs to be done when switching. Just change your oil and filter like normal---use a good quality filter (AC Delco) and the syn. oil and you are good to go.

it is the same price as the normal Mobil1

Is there anything special that I should do when switching from Fossil Oil to Synthetic?

Of Course, I know that I have to change the filter, but is the Standard AC Delco PF52 filter still o.k. to use with Synthetic oil or is a special filter required? Pardon my ignorance, but I've never used sythetic oil before.


Thanks again, and BTW the cost of the cheap oil and filter was $7.00 USD and the "Gunk" Flush was $2.50. Well worth the cost.

Nope, nothing required.

Next oil change just drop out the old oil and fill up with the synthetic.

I highly recommend Mobil 1 10w30 synthetic if you are in the south.

Also, for the filter, the PF52 will be fine but I would recommend you going to the Fram Extended Guard oil filter.

It is the filter I use and it is good for 7000-8000 miles.

Awesome filter, and I love it.

Here is some research on it here:

http://www.oilfilterstudy.com/framxg-b.jpg

http://www.oilfilterstudy.com/fram-xg5.htm

*Disclaimer*- This is the ONLY Fram you should EVER use.

it is the same price as the normal Mobil1

You sure about that, I heard it is 5 bucks more a jug.

I saw it last night. The normal and the extended life were both 4.84 per quart. Didn't see the jug. I was there late and they were just putting it on the shelves. They could have put the jugs out after I left. Next time I go in I'll see if they got them. I got about two weeks before I'm due for a change. I think I'll flush and switch to the new stuff. I'd like to use Mobil1 or amsoil filter too, but no one around here carries them.

The mobil 1 extended performance IS NOT an API licensed oil for the most current categories because it does not meet the fuel economy test. It does meet the engine durability and protection requirements of the spec. So what does this mean if you don't care to much about fuel economy and want an oil that "guarantees" protection out to 15,000 miles----go for it.

The suggested price range for the Mobil 1 extended is $5.79-$5.99/qt. and the price for the "traditional" Mobil 1 is around $4.99 at pep boys and $4.68 at walmart. Obviously price will depend on the individual retailers buying power, sales, etc.

Ah, so I was right, close to US$5 more per jug.

Just remember, you will still have to replace the filter at 7500 miles.

Also, I recommend a flush before the switch if you are changing from conventional oil.

Yep. People forget the filter change. A flush is a good idea----why compromise the great benefits of a syn. oil by mixing it with some "leftover" conventional mineral oil based engine oil.

Well I know for a fact the quarts are the same price at my walmart. I'll check on the jugs if they got them and let you know.If them being the same price is a mistake hopefully they won't catch until after I get mine.

Yep. People forget the filter change. A flush is a good idea----why compromise the great benefits of a syn. oil by mixing it with some "leftover" conventional mineral oil based engine oil.

No so much that, but the synthetic will clean the engine and dissolve out the sluge and dirty the new oil very fast.

Update on the price of oil in Florida:

They changed the price yesterday. So now it is close to the price you heard LT.

Quart
Mobil1.................$4.84
Mobil1extended.....$5.36

Jug
Mobil1.................$19.97
Mobil1extended.....$23.82

And lou, you are right, the new stuff doesn't have the API certfied stamp on it.

It also says that you don't need a special filter to go 15,000 miles.

I just bought the old Mobil1, I have used it in my Impala since I got it 7 years ago and have had no oil related problems. In a few days (as soon as my oil cooler lines from RockAuto come in) I will flush the motor and switch the Blazer over to it.

Anyone see any problems with changing it every 2 months at 8,000 miles. I'll be using Mobil1 10-30 with a NAPA GOLD oil filter.

Mobil does hope to have this product certified by the API in the very near future while maintaining the 15000 mile guarantee. If you are generating 8000 miles/2 months one can assume that it is mostly highway miles at a constant speed so you should be able to take it up to that time frame for changing your oil. May want to consider incrementing up to 8000 miles depending on what mileage you change your oil at now.

The majority of it is stop and go (my wife uses it for deliveries) right now I am changing every 3,000....well I buy the oil at 3,000 but it is close to 4000 when i actually change it.

Come to think of it with the miles I put on, it should be about 50/50. Her doing stop and go and me putting on interstate miles.

You should be able to get to 5-6000 comfortably to start with and see what it looks like.

I would push it up to 8000 miles. This oil will easily take it with flying colours.

It has a TBN of 12 which really really high.

I think you could even go over 10,000 miles.

But do 8000 miles and send a sample to Blackstone labs for an oil analysis. Best 30 bucks you will ever spend.

I check my oil level pretty often, as long as it looks clean I should be okay....right?

oh....If anyone needs oil cooler lines get them from rockauto. Dealer said $91. Rockauto $20

Go for it. That's an awesome price for cooler lines. I'll remember that in the future. I'm on my 3rd set-----so goes the wisconsin weather bein kind to some auto parts.

They should be here tommorow. The $20 is for the ones that go from the filter to the radiator. The ones that go from the filter to the engine were $30 or $40.

I still can't figure out why they were so much at the dealer, I thought maybe because they were trying to sell me both sets, but the guy said it was just the ones from the radiator to the filter. I asked him three times if he was sure . He said he was.

At rockauto I got the lines, motor mount, and paid for 2 day shipping for less than the price of just the lines at the dealer.

Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!

Look for yourself:

http://www.rockauto.com

I didn't believe it either, but they have pics and it is definitely it.

I just went back and looked again:

4wd:

http://www.rockauto.com/ref/RB/6095124.jpg Filter to radiator.....$20


http://www.rockauto.com/ref/RB/6095123.jpg Filter to engine..$33.79

2wd:

http://www.motormitedormancatalog.com/itemimages/625-122.jpg Radiator to engine..$28.79


Mine was bad where the line goes into the bottom of the radiator. Believe it or not, the hard plastic wire loom rubbed through the metal line. I suggest everyone check theirs to make sure they won't have the same issue.

color is not how you judge if oil is clean.

Get a pressure tester for the cooling system.
I would use tranny fluid if you have to flush your engine. Don't use Moto-medic or the like.
If your oil is milky then it has anitfreexe in it most likely either the head or intake gasket.

Get a pressure tester for the cooling system.
I would use tranny fluid if you have to flush your engine. Don't use Moto-medic or the like.
If your oil is milky then it has anitfreexe in it most likely either the head or intake gasket.

Thanks for the reply, but I think I got my problem solved thanks to BlazerLT and others on this Forum.

I used the "Gunk" brand flush with some cheap fresh oil and a new cheap filter. Then drained that all out and filled with fresh Castrol GTX 5W-30 oil and a new AC Delco Filter. This motor has never run this quiet, and the oil is still so clean that it is barely visible on the dipstick.

I have heard of using tranny fluid in the crankcase, and even diesel fuel. But I think I would have a pretty tough time explaining any potential damage to the dealership trying to make good on my extended warranty.

I have learned that condensation on the inside of the oil filler cap is normal, and can even be found on the inside of filler caps of air cooled engines. So I think I was a little premature on suspecting water in the oil. As it turns out, it was a little sludge.

Rick

Well, I got my oil lines today, they are cheaper at Rockauto, because the quality is nothing like the originals (didn't really expect it to be). The only issue I saw that might be a problem (other than the lines being thinner than original) is that the end that goes to the top of the radiator has a bend instead of a 90 degree connector. The extra distance that it sticks out with the bend makes it rest right up against the air box, this could allow it to rub a hole in the line. I put a short peice of hose over it for protection.

I also did a Gunk flush for 30min. and refilled with Mobil1 10w30 and used a NAPA GOLD oil filter. Ran a bottle of Techron through and threw on a new NAPA GOLD fuel filter too. 120,000 and it sounds and runs like brand new again.

:gives:

Well, I got my oil lines today, they are cheaper at Rockauto, because the quality is nothing like the originals (didn't really expect it to be). The only issue I saw that might be a problem (other than the lines being thinner than original) is that the end that goes to the top of the radiator has a bend instead of a 90 degree connector. The extra distance that it sticks out with the bend makes it rest right up against the air box, this could allow it to rub a hole in the line. I put a short peice of hose over it for protection.

I also did a Gunk flush for 30min. and refilled with Mobil1 10w30 and used a NAPA GOLD oil filter. Ran a bottle of Techron through and threw on a new NAPA GOLD fuel filter too. 120,000 and it sounds and runs like brand new again.

:gives:

Sweet, guess you just had the remote filter to cooler leaking then.

Most people have the lines going from the filter to the engine leaking.

Sweet, guess you just had the remote filter to cooler leaking then.

Most people have the lines going from the filter to the engine leaking.

Yeah, it was just the ones to the cooler. Luckily the ones going from the filter to the engine were good, they look like a PITA to change out.

Yeah, it was just the ones to the cooler. Luckily the ones going from the filter to the engine were good, they look like a PITA to change out.

True, even if they start to sweat oil a bit, I wouldn't worry about it.

People often swap them out and they still leak.

Filter to engine requires about a 3-4' extension.

Just because I'm old and dense:

Should I add the quart of cleaner to cheap oil and junk filter after I drain the existing oil out, and then start the engine,

or

Should I add the 3 quarts of cheap oil, junk filter, warm up the engine, and then add the cleaner?

I'd run the truck to warm the oil. Then drain the old stuff out. Then add the cheap oil + oil flush and the cheap throw away filter. Then run the engine for the recommended time. Then drain the oil again and replace the oil with good stuff and a good oil filter (k&N makes an oil filter).

FYI, when you look at the oil flush crap, all they are is lighter weight organic liquids. This will thin out your oil a bit and free up crud that forms internally.

I'd run the truck to warm the oil. Then drain the old stuff out. Then add the cheap oil + oil flush and the cheap throw away filter. Then run the engine for the recommended time. Then drain the oil again and replace the oil with good stuff and a good oil filter (k&N makes an oil filter).

FYI, when you look at the oil flush crap, all they are is lighter weight organic liquids. This will thin out your oil a bit and free up crud that forms internally.

Exactly what I did. Turned out great! Thanks for your post. :iceslolan