What is the ultimate production sleeper?

IMO the 63 Sport Fury Max Wedge. Check out John Comstock's Copper stick shift on the net. I saw this car at the Norwalk Chrysler Classic a few years back and heard it driving around the track with the cutouts off, what a sound!

the old 327/350hp chevy II was a sleeper, as was the 383 dart

My turn! I know, you're looking for some sort of Pontiac. NOT! My vote is the '70 Ford Falcon (based on Torino that year) with the 429 SCJ. I saw two of them sold in San Bernardino. Both had 4-speeds and 3.50 gears. They would FLY!

These are great sleepers. The Chevy II base with the L-79 was definately one of the greatest sleepers, also the Torino/Falcon 429SCJ. The Dart was less of a sleeper because it only came in GTS form, not base model. The 340's were actually quicker though. Here's one for PONTIAC, the T-37 Lemans with the 455 HO motor and all the goodies. That was another great sleeper, and although not a GTO, definately a musclecar in my book, (and one of the fastest).

If you guys want to see one of the coolest Torino's, I found one searching on the net. It's a 70 Torino base with a 429scj, shaker all white, no stripes, but has magnum 500's. Has drag-pac, blue bench seat, there is a video of it running too. I can't remember the site but I found it on Yahoo's video search. I believe I used Torino or Torino cobra for search listings. If you find it, there are 3 small video clips of it running, man this thing sounds so sweet, flowmasters and big solid cam, it sounds like a race car, but looks like a calm 302 Torino, check it out if you can find it.

ultimate sleeper-80's models Grand Nationals turbo v-6 and they knock down serious numbers and will knock off anything in its class and above

I would have to agree with the Buick Grand National. It's not really a sleeper anymore because everyone knows what the cars are capable of, but in its time it was one hell of a sleeper.

Rob

the 64 ford falcon, 63 SD455 catalina, 73 SD455 trans am, Regal T-Type "same as a GN but without all the body parts", 65 catalina 2+2, 64 fury max wedge 426 and thats all i can think of off the top of my head

In 1977..the sleeper was..and this is pathetic...the fastest production vehicle in the qtr was the dodge pickup with the 440 motor. That's how far the car market declined...performance wise.

It's funny how just 3 years earlier than that. The fastest American car was the '74 Trans AM SD455, a car capable of doing mid 13's on low compression, to your 77 comparison.

1966 W30

Awesome ride! Looked definately like a sleeper and ran with the best of them.

4 speed supreme must be pretty rare.

4 speed supreme must be pretty rare.
My car? I was looking for a 4 speed Cutlass Supreme and all I could find was a few 350 4 speeds too far away to get. I decided to buy a clean automatic car and switch it over. I was quite a pain to find the 4 speed components for an Oldsmobile. I did manage to get it all together though. Its now a 455 4 speed. I even hooked up the reverse lights and you have to put it in reverse to shut the key off just like factory. Its going to look like a sleeper too. I just got my steel wheels painted body color and they are going on with dog pans.

4speedsupreme, was that a 400 or 425? I've seen '69 and '70 W-30s, but never heard of anything before that. They were 455s. The 455 was introduced in '68. Just curious. Knew a man in Napa many years ago, that had a '67 442 with a 425 in it. That car ran well. 13s, pretty much stock, with slicks and headers, 3x2 carbs (I believe the 3 dueces was a '66 unit). We had to put TriPower on John's '64 428-powered GTO to beat it. That's saying a lot, as that GTO gave 'em hell!

Mr Pbody, The 66 W-30 was a 400 3x2. It had the air intakes under the front like the 68. The 66 was probably the fastest W-30 car.

Mr Pbody, The 66 W-30 was a 400 3x2. It had the air intakes under the front like the 68. The 66 was probably the fastest W-30 car.
And by far the rarest with only 54 being built at the factory. You could also order a kit to build your own through an Olds dealer, but I don't know how many were made. They also made a 400 3x2 with out the W30 option in 1966. I think the order code was L69. I bought a Hurst Olds off a guy in New York years ago that had a W30 car he was restoring. I also saw one at Dick Miller Olds Nationals in Norwalk last year.

Good Stuff. I think Oldsmobiles were the most under-estimated of all the musclecars out there. If more people had a ride in one of these cars, I think they would have been converted. I have a Mopar now but I have always been a closet Olds fan. Ever since I was in high school, and my buddies and I built up a 74 442, for a Japanese (imagine that) foreign exchange student.

i would say it was the 1969 Hurst SC/rambler ! ! !
i know it had the big scoop and R.W.B. paint scheme but alot of people took the scoop off and repainted the cars when they were new.
know one would had ever thought twice about about messing with a RAMBLER that sold for less then $3,000 ,but at low 14s in the 1/4 mile stock and low 12s with a few simple bolt ons they did alot of EGO DAMAGE reather they won or not.
see my SC,
http://www.joiesjeeps.com/1512_members_pages/mattwilson.html

history of Hurst SC/ramblers,
http://www.joiesjeeps.com/scrambler.html
thanks,
matt
FREEDOM = AMC

Relax, Matt. The Scrambler could hardly be considered a "sleeper" unless you found someone that had never heard of or seen one run. The only one that ever got me, got me by surprise only because the paint job was removed, and the car had gray primer on it. Had I noticed the red, white and blue headrests, I would have expected exactly what I got!

i'm relaxed. as you say with the r.w.b. paint schemes they were not sleepers but alot of people did just what you talked about. they had removed the paint and some other stuff and caught them off gaurd. i'm sure when they first came out their were alot of people who didn't know about them.
all i know is what fun those days would have been with any muscle car. i'm 40 , so i was getting these cars when they wer 10 + years old. i think we had almost as much fun as the original owners.
i always thought the late 60s early 70s 429 T-Birds ran great.
thanks,
matt
thanks for reply,it's not everyday i get to talk to someone about the SC/ramblers as they are rare.

Built a Rambler or three... A couple years ago, we did a 401 for a local racer with a '69 AMX. The car runs consistently in the high 9s. Making that kind of power was NOT trivial, though. He (the customer) actually came up with an old set of Crane "super stock" heads from one of the factory SS teams in the early '70s. With a little more massaging and a bit larger valves, the thing really came alive! Comp roller, Ross pistons, modified Torker (for a 4500), and so on. Good stuff, Maynard...

For ultimate production sleeper...

Hard to choose one, but:

1969 Dodge Dart GTS 440
Drag Racing magazine tested one (in their June, 1969 issue), with a 3-speed auto and 3.55 gears went 12.7 sec @ 112 in the 1/4 mile with only a change to wider tires. (The stock E-70/14s were ridiculously skinny.)

Also:
'63 Mopar Max-Wedge 426... low 12/high 11s right from the factory.
'64 Ford Thunderbolt... low 12s/high 11s again.
'62 Pontiac Catalina 421/405 hp... 13.9 @ 107.
'67 Chevy Biscayne 427/425, 4.56 gears... 13.40s.

Buick Grand National would run low 12,s (Stock)

Buick Grand National would run low 12,s (Stock)
No, they wouldn't.
From the factory, with no modifications, and on stock tires, they ran high 13s. I have several tests of those when they were new.
The GNX was capable of low 13s, but not many of those were sold.

The '66 442 W-30 was an awesome car and with the steel wheels and "dog dish" hubcaps, it would qualify as a sleeper. I know a BC Olds club member who has a red '66 W-30 (one of 54). Nice. NHRA record holder in '66 too, I believe.

I think the a car that would qualify for the term "ultimate sleeper" ie. no one expects them to be fast would be a '68 Chevrolet Biscayne with a 427 L-72 425hp solid lifter rectangular port motor, M-22 "rockcrusher" 4spd and 4:10 geared 12 bolt posi. Steel wheels, hubcaps and blackwalls complete the sleeper look.

Dave

The Biscayne one is good. I gotta second that.

IMO the 63 Sport Fury Max Wedge. Check out John Comstock's Copper stick shift on the net. I saw this car at the Norwalk Chrysler Classic a few years back and heard it driving around the track with the cutouts off, what a sound!


1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 YENKO
http://www.oldride.com/displayAd.html?sectionID=1&ViewItem=3632


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