Ferrari F60

http://www.fantasycars.com/1/News/The_Ferrari_F60_is_Coming_/F60_2.jpg
http://www.fantasycars.com/1/News/The_Ferrari_F60_is_Coming_/F60_1.jpg

The F60, successor to the V8-engined F40 and F50 V12, was caught road and track testing at Ferrari's HQ in Maranello, Italy. Hidden under a mix of bodywork from the 348 and 550 is a stunning blend of Formula One-influenced technology and lines penned by Pininfarina that will ensure the carbon fibre-chassised F60 offers incredible grip and speed.

High-level exhausts point to an aerodynamic undertray such as that used on the F50, while the engine is tipped to be a 6.0-litre 650bhp V12. Mated to a sequential gearbox, it's expected to give the F60 a 3.0-second 0-60mph sprint time and 230mph top speed.


I think it looks pretty cool. :D

That's fast.

I think the front overhang looks funny, but otherwise it looks alright! I still like the 360 Modena styling better :D

That's pretty sweet. My criticisms of the 360 Modena (i.e. that it breaks from traditional Ferarri design and does not look like a Ferrari but rather just a great-looking exotic - and while that's not a bad thing, I think there needs to be some sort of uniformity) do not apply to this car.

This design takes the slowly evolving Ferrari look and puts the modern touches on it for a beautiful, contemporary, but still recognizably Ferarri look.

ok, enough is enough. I had a huge email argument almost a year ago (when I first saw the photo, its being passed around) with the guy who drew up with this graphic.. web designers who read this, please remove this photo from your sites or at least label it not to be an f60. The f60 is supposed to be better than the f50 and f40 by using the aerodynamic tricks associated with the 360 modena, WITHOUT that damn huge wing. Ferrari knows this, but then they realized that everyone was going to start drawing estimates of what the f60 would look like, so they encouraged people to draw sillier, less accurate images like the one above, which is little more than 20 minutes work in photoshop using a picture of a fioravanti f100 and a ferrari f50. PLEASE, this image is a fallacy... Automobile magazine has even bought into a hideously mangled caricature of a car labeled f60 with all sorts of gangly wings and odd protrustions... I promise u, the differences we will see from f50 to f60 will be similar to the ones made from f355 to 360 modena. Ferrari is out to be the best, not to release the 2003 stylistic update of the f40 design practice. Big spoilers are out too... the diablo 6.0 doesn't have one, vector is dead, the main 64 production mclaren f1s didn't have them (the GTRs, GTs, and LMs did, but that's a separate issue), please stop making ferrari chuckle by circulating this false info. I'll say that the photo is well-done, and that the author did 2 angles gives it more believability, but this is silly. the photo above is wholly unrelated to the f60, and is NO indication as to what it will look like.

Well then, does anybody have a picture of the real F60?

actually, I saw a pic in a german car magazine about 2 months ago, but it hasn't turned up in the us yet. look for it... its looks more like a badly done fiero kit stretched over a longer chassis

There are no real pics of the Ferrari F60. If you did see one, it was probably a teaser made by Ferrari. The F60 is not supposed to come out for a very long time.

Anyone see the new C&D? They have a computer animated sketch...looks fishy to me. I think it's to throw us off.

They say that the next car, the "F60" will be offered within two years.

I don't believe it.

Here's that pic

http://www.supercars.net/servlets/Msg/images/27485a.jpg

Here's that pic

http://www.supercars.net/servlets/Msg/images/27485a.jpg

I hope that's not what it will look like.

No it won't! That's just a photoshopped 360! Nice try. :wave:

Who said that it will take a long time before we will see the new F60?
Do you want to see the real first prototypes of the new F60 ??
Enough with all the fake computerimages !

I have this info from a friend who visited Maranello last month.Look at www.motorcar-journal.com.

At this moment there are two proto's of the car. A black one which testing the airodynamics and cooling parts, and a red one testing the engine. He had seen the red one with testchief Dario Benuzzi at the wheel !!

the car is a mixture of an 348 front with an 355 tailend. the car is longer and a lot wider than an normal 348 or 355. With an V12 engine and a horric sound. the car will be based on the last F360. ( figures 650 hp and 0-100 in 3,2 sec).

production will start in early 2003.

(sorry for the writing mistakes)

http://www.motorcar-journal.com./voor/articles/ferrari/proto/side.jpg
I sincerely hope you're joking, and you don't actually believe that. Those pics have been around for quite some time, but I haven't yet heard what they are. At first I heard it was Ferrari testing the F60 engine, and disguising it with old body panels. However, more recently I've heard (from good sources) that it was actually the Porsche Carrera GT under the Ferrari skin! They wanted to keep it completely under wrap.

Whatever that is testing for, it's not actually the F60.

http://www.motorcar-journal.com./voor/articles/ferrari/proto/spy.htm

all that fake stuff... it may not even be called an 'F60'....

all that junk is computer-generated...

No, I' m not joking about the the two proto's. (Maybe your joking about the Porsche GT. By the way Porsche has still not desided that they will bild the GT. A Porsche testing at the Fiorano racetrack and parking inside the Ferrari factory. I think not !!)

My friend, who owns 6 Ferrari's (F40, TR, 550,...) , had seen the red proto riding inside the factory parking place when he was visiting Ferrari for his new F360. We are members of the Dutch Ferrari Club and other members confirmed his story.

What you heard first is true. I don't say this is what the F60 will look like, but only that this are proto's with parts of the car. Two weeks ago, you could see pictures of the red car in Autocar (England) and Autowereld (Belgium). Next saturday there will be an article in Autovisie (Dutch www.autovisie.nl).

If you follow the development of the "specials"at Ferrari you know that they start the F131 project (F50) with a Mondial proto which was longer and wider. (also this two proto's). Then they start testing with a modified F40 and eventualy the final car.

Yes, well you asked who wanted to see the real f60 prototypes...enough with the computer images. Thus, I took it as though you actually thought that's what it will look like.

If you like to see a picture of the red testcar, visit www.caranddriver.com at the spypics site.

I saw also the computerimage of the F60 in Caranddriver. Unfortunately I lost the mag on an airport. So I tried to open the page you mentioned, but It wouldn't open.

Could you please mail me the picture ([email protected])

Thanks

Alright, how about we just wait until the concept actually comes out? I belive your images that you sent because there's no way a computer can produce a 348/355 and they are testing the engine and other parts, they don't have an actual car yet. So I believe you.

I got the pic off of the net, so I can't send it to you.

0 to 60 in 3 seconds! thats stupid fast, i would be terrfied to drive a car that could go that fast, that quick. But it looks great and should be a car fan favorite if it evers makes it to production.
Toodles...
:flash:

OK...enough banter already! This is the actual BLACK PROTOTYPE!
It seems as though Ferrari is undecided on the rear wing judging from the 2 raised fenders and it also has the "Porsche GT1" treatment to the sides. the modena cues are visible from front angle
http://www.edidomus.it/AUTO/MondoAuto/attualita/foto/0601_f60bis.jpg
http://www.edidomus.it/AUTO/MondoAuto/attualita/foto/0601_f60_02.jpg
http://www.edidomus.it/AUTO/MondoAuto/attualita/foto/0601_f60_retro_big.jpg
http://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/happenings/images/F60-3.jpg

:flipa: dude, thanks for the pics. I think the f60 is shaping up nicely, and I think the huge wing thing is dated. Just my own speculation: drivetrain testing can be done without any respect for the car, so I suggest that the reason that this nearly undisguised prototype is roaming about is that Ferrari is doing final testing of the car's driving behavior, and perhaps checking whether the shape has effective enough downforce for 220+ top speeds, also why the wing has probably been left off. My guess is that ferrari is unsure whether the shape needs the wing, figuring such an ungainly device perhaps unnecessary. Check out the heavily contoured deck that flows into an upturned tail... The F50's was almost flat, by comparison. Also, that front overhang is huge... even a jaguar xj220 owner would consider it more than is believable, but it doesn't change frontal area any, so its possible that its fake, the real face probably rounded off more like the 360 modena's. Or at least I sincerely hope, as such a tremendous overhang is truly a design oversight if it is not chopped before production. the fact that all the lines forward of the A pillar flow so smoothly into that terribly long nose does worry me that it is the final item though. I sincerely hope, for what this car means to automotive enthusiasts around the world, that ferrari doesn't fuck this car up, because I remember how disappointed I was with the F50 from so many angles. the profile and dead on views of the top, front and rear were great, but nearly every 3/4 angle view made the car seem to have odd extrusions, too long in every direction, especially by comparison to the wicked proportions of the then-in-production McLaren F1. Doesn't mean the f50 didn't kick ass, and it also doesn't mean this car won't be as fast as we've all been led to believe, but if it isn't drop dead gorgeous, it won't be as special. It also won't occupy the space in young boys' minds that it should, and will leave the bragging rights all to the Ultima's, Mosler's, Stealth B6's and Bugatti 16/4 Veyron's of the world.

I honestly think the Ferrari F50 was a true masterpiece. It is gorgeous. True, the strange front end takes getting used to, but what a front end. :licker:
Anyway, I think you cant tell the true beautyy of almost any car simply by pictures. For example, when I bought the model of the Porsche GT1, its true beauty was shown through looking at angles from close up that dont exiast in pictures. You have to see the real thing in 3d form before you can truly judge it. In a sense, many of us are blind to the true beauty that these vehicles possess.

dude, innotech, don't get your panties in a bunch. There's no need to get all defensive about the f50. Hell, they only made 349 of them, and its not like you own one, and its also not like I called it ugly. Its a frickin ferrari. They're all gorgeous, and even the f50 isn't the least so. But at the same time, nobody considers a mondial in the same class of looks as a 360 modena or f355. My point is that for my $500,000, there's typical gorgeous, and then there is drop-dead life altering gorgeous that nobody forgets. I saw a mcLaren f1 at the mclaren dealership in london in 1995. I almost busted a nut just standing there. (sorry, I'm that much of a car freak) it was like my holy grail. I'll put some pics up of what I was talking about with the f50, eventually, but sorting through an assload of car pics isn't something I'm up to doing right now. The fact is that the engineers built the f50, and the stylists didn't really do as much as maybe they should have. Its somewhat gangly design for such a throughtfully designed piece of work. its still kate moss, just she's high on the floor in a pile of what she ate a few hours earlier from that angle. And about that 3d appreciation thing, you are right about cars in the flesh, but it doesn't carry over fully to models, man, I had about 70 (including an f50) of them back in high school but I didn't bring them with me to college. In addition, I ogled an F50 I ran into in Florida for about an hour. I'm not saying its not an eyegrabber or that its in any way unattractive. That F50 still had a weird looking front end from most offset angles. But I'll say it again so you don't lose your tampon up there, Its a good looking car, but for all that I expected from "f50" it was a disappointment. but this is supposed to be f60 forum, so if you are reading this, go up a few entries and tell me that that elongated front overhang on the black f60 prototype seems ridiculously long, even for ferrari, and that it seems that its hiding the real face under there. it doesn't matter, but it makes for fun writing on a saturday morning, don't you think? :bloated: :flipa:
write some more guys, this is fun... pics soon as I sober up ;-)
dan

I am impressed by your analysis of the aerodynamics of the F60. Good stuff!! I wish I knew a tenth of what you seem to know about how airflow around cars is sculpted by automobile manufaturers.. I know the very basics.

I will say that I too was definitely very disappointed by the F50 after the awe-inspiring F40. And I think that all the super exotic cars to be introduced in the next few years will have to somehow top the Saleen S7, which I believe is next to impossible. I'm sure you've seen the pictures, and if you're like 99 out of 100 people out there, you agree that it looks just flat out incredible. Well, I saw one at the NY Auto Show, and, truly, the pictures fail to do this automotive masterpiece justice. I can honestly say that I've never seen such a good-looking car. And it's design isn't just nice to look at (Steve Saleen claims that the car generates its entire bodyweight at sea level in downforce at 160 mph), its design works quite well at both slicing through air and utilizing it for high speed stability.

thanx so much for the nice comments, I really do have a problem with this stuff, don't i? lol


I too love the Saleen S7. But I believe, that while it is a wonderful car, and I'm proud to say its built in my country (although CA, not Michigan) it has its own problems. Yes, when I came upon a pumpkin organge S7 on the lower floor of Cobo Hall this year at Detroit, I wasted a whole roll on the car. It is a stunner. It shows that Saleen is not just a tuner, and is a force to be rekoned with, and shows that the US market isn't just the big three, america has a cottage industry of formidable proportions. But it isn't perfect either. The shape is extremely long because the long flat shape increases downforce, right? its why the xj220 was long, and why the last mclarens had length extensions. Ferrari foregoes such extensions to pull off the same downforce effects with the 360 modena through greater knowledge of aerodynamics and smart underbody airflow. As a result, the 360 is a pure form, clearly ferrari, and the saleen is derivative. The saleen's best bits (bodywork forward of A-pillar, roofline, roof scoop, door treatments) are copied from the mclaren f1, and while the s7 never has to worry about being parked next to one for accidental comparison (there are fewer than 10 f1's in the us, and ralph lauren has 2.), the whole of the automotive world can recognize the similarity. The weaker stylistic bits of the s7 are the excess of slats. Steve Saleen says an exotic car needs louvers, I think it needs stylistic balance. The tall slats in the side aft of the doors are fine, but the vents in the channel below the door could use half the vent count. At the number the s7 has, the excess can't possibly be improving airflow much, if at all, and the need for certain vents to draw a familial resemblance to his modified ford's is exaggerated. The Saleen is a complete car, well- built, really fast, very stable, and will eventually be revered in a better light than most people cast for the US auto industry.

But I believe that S7's role has been overstated. There is a car, built in just outside palm springs, in florida, called the Mosler Mt900. 900 was the target weight in kilograms, which is under 2000 lbs, and the mosler misses that mark by about 600 lbs or so, but the mosler is still a more worthy candidate for your dreams. The mosler, like the saleen, is a carbon-fiber bodied, aluminum underwork, american v8- derived, mid-engine road rocket barely taller than 40 inches. But the mosler, whose drivetrain spawns from the corvette, comes in $220,000 LESS than the entry price of the $380,000 Saleen S7. For a bit more than $160,000, mosler's mt900 cracks to 60 in 3.5 seconds, way ahead of the 7-liter saleen, which claims to just be "under 4." a half second between 3 and 4 seconds is more dramatic than a half second between 6 and 7 seconds when you are talking about horizontal g's induced on the driver when accelerating from rest to maximum legal speeds. The Mosler's stock 345 hp 5.7 liter LS1 v8 is rather unmolested from its installation in the corvette, and I believe that large amounts of its suspension hardware also stems from the corvette, but the chassis itself is unique componentry, should u be thinking this be a monstrosity similar to the late gisser "mid-engined corvette".( I remember this advertisements... "Buy our car, buy our stock!"...please...). The mosler graced the cover of Car and Driver a few months back, breaking 100 mph in a shade over 8 seconds, onward to a gearing-limited 155 mph. Its short geared, but for daily use, are you really planning to go faster than that? The Unigraphics solutions- rendered body resembles the Saleen's profile, but its body has only arcs where the saleen has corners, its overhangs are short and more manageable where the saleens will be cracked when going up ramps or driveways. But, you say, how can I consider a cheaper car with 345 hp from a 5.7 when the saleen is clearly not meant to be a bargain and offers 550 hp from a 7-liter? B/c I've only been talking about the entry level- mosler. For 250-260K (120-130K less dollars than a saleen s7), Mosler will offer the consumer his twin-turboed mt900, courtesy of lingenfelter's hp shop in decatur indiana, about an hour from where I write this article. That motor has 650 hp and similar torque, and suddenly where the base mt900 is comparable to the s7, this car rockets past. It hasn't been tested yet, but you can bet that with a ~2700 lb curb weight and 650 hp, the twin-turbo mt900, which has a slightly better power to weight ratio than a mclaren F1, and much shorter gearing (ok, maybe they'll change that), the mosler will be grabbing 60 in about 3, 100 very close to 6, and probably top 240 with ease. My confidence is well-founded. Top speed is determined largely by 3 things: hp, drag coefficient, and enough downforce to make the driver confident enough to go that fast. For comparsion, the Mclaren F1, in its final road-going iteration in 1996, ran 241 mph. It had 627 hp. The Mosler has 650. The Mclaren had a drag coefficient of .34. The Mosler's is .25 (industry-leading, tied with new Mercedes C-class, and Lexus LS430, I think). Finally, where Top Gear magazine's Jeremy Clarkson called the Mclaren tricky at the limit due to a lack of rear-end stability, the Mosler has much longer, articulated bodywork where the mclaren had its gorgeous but bob-tailed dimensions.

This is the car to worship, and its a relative bargain. The base car should be enough to be the fastest thing for sale in the US when Mosler starts selling them later this year. At 160 grand, you could have a mosler mt900, a dodge viper, and a corvette z06, and maybe a lexus sc430 for the price of a single saleen s7.

If you've got the dough, ask warren mosler to build you an mt900 to your liking at:
http://www.mt900.com

geez, I should really be ashamed of myself. I forgot this was a f60 forum. The f60 is really going to be a great competitor when Ferrari finishes it. I hope they don't hold back. It certainly has its work cut out for it, facing all kinds of competition:

-Bugatti EB16/4 Veyronlink (http://www.bugatti-cars.de)
-Lamborghini Diablo Replacement
-Porsche Carrera GT www.porscheusa.com (http://www.porscheusa.com)
-Ultima GTR and Can-am Ultima cars (http://www.ultimasports.co.uk)
-Stealth B6
stealth cars (http://www.stealthcars.co.uk)
-Mosler MT900 and MT900TT Mosler cars (http://www.mt900.com)
-Saleen S7 Saleen cars (http://www.saleen.com)
-Pagani Zonda C12 and C12S Modena Design/ Pagani Autos (http://www.modena-design.it)
-all those nutty TVRs: Cerbera 4.5, SPEED 12, Tuscan STVR engineering (http://www.tvr-eng.co.uk)
-Ascari KZ1 Ascari Cars (http://www.ascari.co.uk)
-Dodge Viper GTS '03 (500 hp/500+ lb/ft, 500 cubic inches), as well as all the modifications ligenfelter and hennessey have planned for the still-understressed block
-Current Hennessey Vipers (viper people are ferrari f50 and f60 people who grew up in texas, lets face it)
Hennessey Motorsports (http://www.hennesseyms.com)
-Ligenfelter modified Vetteslingenfelter (http://www.lingenfelter.com)
-Vision K2 visionK2.com (http://www.visionk2.com)

HAVE FUN BROWSING! the more we all know about the competition, the better the world can judge whether ferrari tried hard enough...

What involved responses. Well, I too read about the Mosler MT900, and I agree that its numbers are fantastic. Warren Mosler is a body designer without equal (just imagine if he'd been able to make the MT900 with the Raptor split-window windshield that Trenne simply refused to allow the MT900 to be produced with - perhaps the numbers would be even more staggering). Seems to have absolutely no short-comings... but I am just not stirred by its design the in the same way the S7 makes me feel. But I agree with your commentary 100%

However, if I failed to mention it here, the be-all end-all sports car in my book is the Koenigsegg CC. Here's some more info on it (note 0-60 = 3.2 seconds, top speed = 242 mph, curb weight = 2,425 lbs.): http://supercars.net/SDBQ?i=667

Alot of those cars I would get before I could afford an F60. Its more than just numbers, its the whole EXPERIENCE
I will read all the post tommorrow, and put down a more involved opinion.

I haven't see the Koenigsegg CC in a while and I love it still! 654hp from that Devilish beast. It could easily mulch a Ferrari

sure, sure, its easy to talk about the EXPERIENCE, as though its something that more than 2% of people on AF can actually talk about firsthand, but on the extreme end of the supercar genre (more extreme than a 550 Maranello, the F series Ferraris being the only ferraris judged this way) upon which we are currently bantering, its not so much getting the most mind-blowing experience as much as it is being able to differentiate, because they're all excellent. Experience is a fair argument if you are slightly past the 6 figure income point and are trying to convince yourself that a Ferrari 360 Modena or 550 Maranello are better buys than a Viper (They are the right purchase because they're better cars, and the comparison is a great example of how the numbers don't tell the whole story). However, If you've driven an archaic but charming early '80s car like myself, anything is going to be amazing, and being able to judge whether to buy a koenigsegg CC whose numbers are only marginally better than a Mosler mt900 is not really an experience judgement call b/c you need a stopwatch or g-measuring accelerometer to tell if they were different at all. Consider a lexus ls430.. 0-60 in 6.4... audi S4... 0-60 (automatic) in 6.5... do you really think there is much cross shopping between the two? (or how about a Mustang GT vs a Jaguar xk8? or how about a S600 and an M3?) THAT is where the experience is a clear judgement call. But when talking about whether a koenigsegg CC is sweeter than a Mosler or Saleen, its about the deal offered and who has the bragging rights. Hence, the human eye, hands, and ass are not as good judges than casio or seiko timing equipment. You dig? Thats why the numbers matter in this field (remember, the one so extreme that it only includes the anniversary-level ferraris), and why it doesn't really reduce the rush "conveyed" by these "conveyances."

you dig?
danman:flash:

one more thing: if you ever happen to read a copy of Top Gear Magazine, read anything of special consideration written by Jeremy Clarkson. He's a lucky bastard who had the opportunity to test 7 200+ mph sueprcars, and said some nasty things about the McLaren F1 and Bugatti EB110 and Lamborghini Diablo, while complimenting the Ferrari F40 and Ford Gt40. As a result of his work that I've read since that story, I regard him as the guy to look to for the true enthusiast's view when making judgements about "experience." It should be noted, that while he proclaimed the F40 the best car of that test, he said that he still wouldn't take it over his Ferrari F355. He also wouldn't take a new 360 Modena because he thinks its less fun and less Ferrari than his F355. Now that is a man who sticks to his principles in the face of the newest thing. Oh, don't read his column regularly though (as well as anything he might write about american cars in general), he'll just piss you off. He's the British Brock Yates.

how many of you guys have been to my website? jk, there's not much there right now. Soon tho...
later
danman

doh, still forgetting this is the f60 column. The f60 will likely be tested by european mags way before US mags, so look there first. I'm rooting for the f60, but after having seen that the new car, while showing some f40 influence, is still more f50 than 360 modena, so I seriously doubt anyone will have shocking impressions of the car when it arrives.I'm afraid the impression is going to be, "whoopdie-do.. yeah, that kinda like what the f50 would have been like if they'd waited another model cycle to build it" rather than "my god, what are they putting in the water in Modena these days? Maybe our workers should strike more often. Think of what the vette could be!"

When I say experience, I mean the harmony between speed, handling, sound, how all the senses are delighted. When you spend a whole bunch, it goes to the little (expensive) things.
The F60 will be awesome.

Oh, the GM EV1 has a .19 Cd. The new PNGV cars, the GM Precept has a .16 Cd. But thats just a concept.

I agree the Mosler is awesome, a real deal. It has 20 inch wheels, 14 inch Brembo brakes, and a reliable engine. It could use a better interior- too much corvette stuff in it. The S7 is over-wrought. Konissegg CC looks fine, but uses a reletively lowly Ford V8.

Yes, I agree numbers matter. I just realize when certain factors come together, it makes driving that much better.

PS. the F60 will only go 200mph and a bit, for high speed stability.

Originally posted by JD@af
What involved responses. Well, I too read about the Mosler MT900, and I agree that its numbers are fantastic. Warren Mosler is a body designer without equal (just imagine if he'd been able to make the MT900 with the Raptor split-window windshield that Trenne simply refused to allow the MT900 to be produced with - perhaps the numbers would be even more staggering). Seems to have absolutely no short-comings... but I am just not stirred by its design the in the same way the S7 makes me feel. But I agree with your commentary 100%


This is an old thread, but I felt I had to comment....

Aerodynamically, keeping the rounded windshield was probibly the best thing Trenne could have done. At subsonic speeds, airflow stays laminar over smooth rounded, higher order curves, otherwise known as conics, and the MT900's exterior is all conic surfaces. Sharp knife like leading edges are only an aerodynamic advantage at supersonic speeds, which very few cars will ever see.

Im not sure which side to go with, but I will side with mosler. I do this because I believe he is right, but where he sees engineering beauty, we see an upside down row boat.

Originally posted by Chris
Konissegg CC looks fine, but uses a reletively lowly Ford V8.

Can't argue with you too much (I haven't seen a production class engine from Ford that compares with the LS1, LS6, etc.), Chris, but Koenigsegg is developing a flat 12 engine for the CC. I don't know how long it will take to complete the project, but Koenigsegg seems to work at a pretty brisk pace, so maybe we'll be seeing those before too long.

I heard that also. That would make it worthy. Look in (I think) C&D November for an article on it. They like it quite a bit, but they dont think it will surpass the McLaren f1.

I would like to see a back-to-back comparison of the Ferrari F60, Konigseeg CC, McLaren F1, and Bugatti 16/4 Veyron. That would be interesting.

Originally posted by Chris
I would like to see a back-to-back comparison of the Ferrari F60, Konigseeg CC, McLaren F1, and Bugatti 16/4 Veyron. That would be interesting.

That would be sweet. Though I don't know if they could pull it off, getting all those supercars for a single showdown. And I don't know if they'd want to do it, as any car that was shown up might suffer in sales.. I don't know, maybe that's off-base. Oh, and in my book you can't call this a party without a Pagani Zhonda C12 and a Saleen S7 in the line-up.

How about a Mosler MT900 with a Lingenfelter 427 Twin Turbo, that would be pressing 250 grand, and it is super-performance.

I also doubt they will get all of those cars, but I hope someone can get a few of them together!

Originally posted by Chris
How about a Mosler MT900 with a Lingenfelter 427 Twin Turbo, that would be pressing 250 grand, and it is super-performance.

I also doubt they will get all of those cars, but I hope someone can get a few of them together!


All it takes is a big checkbook, and Mosler will toss in a twin turbo for ya.

C&D did try to get alot of the supercars, and tuners together, but thats really putting your reputation on the line, and a business risk because you never know what could go wrong, and ruin your image.

Originally posted by Chris
Im not sure which side to go with, but I will side with mosler. I do this because I believe he is right, but where he sees engineering beauty, we see an upside down row boat.


If it was engineering beauty...I have yet to talk to an werodynamics engineer that thinks its a good idea. Thats probibly why you don't see any other cars following suit.

Usually Mosler and Lingenfelter are eager to give out their products for competition, because they know that they are reliable and they can win! Like the recent C&D story, Mosler didnt show up because he couldnt secure a car (it would have been a customers car).

And about those aerodynamics: Since I cant be sure, I will have to say that odd things sometimes work. Like the flat tail of the Shelby Cobra Daytona's. They worked brilliantly:)

The MT900 didn't show due to metal shavings being found in the oil filter. But you're right, Warren will put his cars up against anything.

Oh yeah....

And his cars rule! I especially like the Twin star. And the Raptor beat a Lamborghini in the one lap of America. So thats a pretty good endorsement, won't you say?!

Yep :-)

The Twinstar didn't fare as well in the 2000 one lap, it doesn't have the handling that roadcourses require, and of course the Raptors were banned again. No factory cars were entered in the 2001 one lap, it will be interesting to see if he puts an MT900 in the new "tuner" class next year.

Yeah, but it would be an amazing daily driver!! (twin-star)
I should see if anyone will bet on who will win, I could make some money!

that car looks amazing!!!:bandit: :smoka: :smoker2: :ylsuper

well it doesnt look as good as the F50 IMO but it is faster and it still looks really great