Weak Clutch Pedal

Helping a friend work on his car... it's a 95 talon 2.0 L (manual obviously), but he's a fool and blew the engine. He had it replaced at a place I wouldn't trust to change my oil, and his clutch blew out a month later.

Rather than send him back, I told him to bring it over to my place, and we'd take a look... sure enough, springs were busted up pretty badly. Looks like he got the junkyard tranny with the engine, so he now has a 96 tranny and engine... and a brand new clutch kit installed.

Nice and easy car to work on, BTW. : )

Only problem is, when bleeding, I can't get much pressure... that little wannabe resevoir isn't helpful, but I *think* it's sealed up tight. We are also seeing excessive chatter - so, with those 2 issues, I'm thinking either one of the cylinders is shot and/or the new bearing is no good.

I'm hoping someone can give me some insight... most vehicles to roll through my garage lately were auto's, except for an M3 a few months back (little different setup).

Thanks!

did you check for kinked/clogged lines? then check to make sure the cylinder itself isn't plugged with shit, otherwise try a new cylinder.

slave or master? I ordered a new slave on a hunch... didn't realize that it had an independant master (not part of the brakes) until 30 minutes ago. The slave will be in tomorrow... $20. The master is around $90...

check the pressure at the master, then at the end of the lines, and then at the slave. that should tell you where you're losing pressure. you should be able to figure it out from there.

how do you recommend checking the pressure? I have compression test kits, etc. but no cylinder pressure tester...

you might be able to go to a local garage and borrow a brake pressure tester kit. otherwise just take disconnect the lines and if it squirts out when you push down the clutch then it should be fine but if it just kind drips out then that should tell you where the problem is.

sounds good... I can borrow a brake tester, but I will try just pulling the lines tonight

um... just a thought, but if the master is working properly, won't it just come flying out the slave anyway? When I bleed, I do get a good little squirt... but I've been through a whole can of brake fluid, and it still feels like I have virtually no clutch.

I've found that sometimes you have to "prime" the master to get it to start moving fluid, especially after its been run dry. One method is to use a Mighty Vac or similar one man bleeder to draw the fluid through the master. I've also just pumped the pedal quickly a few dozen times. Both will work, if this is your problem in the first place. Also be sure to jack up the front of the car equally on both sides (roughly). I found out the hard way that jacking up only one side creates air locks at the high points and its impossible to bleed when this happens.

rhino ramps - so I'm even (love those things - they'll fit under a corvette!)

but it was dry... still, I've bled a complete bottle through, and I'm not seeing air (just a very soft pedal). and the chatter... I'm hoping this new slave will fix 'er up, if not, tranny has to come off AGAIN (3rd time).

If its not leaking it cant be the slave. A soft pedal has to be the pressure plate or air in the lines, thats it.

it could also be a faulty master cylinder. somewhere inside it could be "releasing" the pressure after a certain point. that way it would have some pressure but not as much as it normally should. that would give the feel of a "soft pedal"

what's making the chattering noise? where's it coming from? i remember when we pulled apart my buddies transmission the shift fork was really loose and it was making a "chattering" noise. just another thing to check.

it WAS the slave... and the pedal is fine now with the new one... no visible leakage

the chatter we *think* is the bearing - it might have been the slave too, but we are replacing the bearing anyway

Good point on the master. It could be recycling fluid back into the reservoir, if the piston doesnt seal. The salve cant do this though, it can only cause a leak, shich you should be able to see by looking at it. And then you are back to air in the lines again. I dont see how a slave fixed it.

it did.... bled the lines, doesn't appear to be any air... and it feels like a 'normal' clutch now.

I don't have the axels on yet, so I can't be sure the chattering is gone yet... but we did go ahead and throw a new bearing in. Could be the shift fork too - I'm not sure how loose is too loose. : )

When we had his tranny apart, you could literally move the shift fork back and forth (kind of like a vibration) with your hand to make it chatter.

did you end up replacing it? His is a little lose, but I don't expect it will give out any time soon - and he doesn't have much money, so we are trying to do this with little expense...

ok, it's weak again... it was good for that entire evening, now, not as bad as before, but it's not engaging until the pedal is 1/2 inch off the floor (before it was like it wasn't engaging at all...)

I'm thinking master... but when when we opened it and gave it a pump, it sprayed us in the face...

Besides, the master costs alot more... any other trouble shooting suggestions?

that's the only other thing it could be is the master cylinder.

yeah, that's what I'm thinking... there really isn't anything else in this system (could it be a loose fork?) to be wrong.

Anyone know where to get a master cylinder rebuild kit for these? The cylinder is pretty pricey, and they can't get it locally until at least thursday anyway. Local mitsubishi dealership parts dept was closed, and won't open until Monday....

it would be easiest to just buy a new one, i dont' know if they make a re-build kit for that one, you'll have to check around at some auto parts stores and see.

easy = expensive + 5 day wait : )

Just hoping to find something more economic and a little faster : )

you could always try just taking it apart and cleaning it good then putting it back. i've never seen a rebuild kit for it but then again i've never looked for one

I'd say it's very unlikely that it's a problem cleaning will help - it's usually a busted seal that would need replaced (and usually comes in a rebuild kit)

I've found a kit online, but no price is listed and I haven't heard back from customer service to confirm that it's even still available.

I'm thinking master... but when when we opened it and gave it a pump, it sprayed us in the face

Opened at the cap or at the line? Forgive me if I missed something by not reviewing page 1, but if its spraying out when the cap is off that master is defintely bad. That goes back to my last post. If you meant at the bleeder, that doesnt tell you anything about it unfortunately.

They do offer rebuild kits at some parts store chains, but if I remeber correctly most poeple that do it end up going with a new master soon after anyway. May not be worth the effort.

No - I'm talking about the master (I'm pretty sure by cap you mean resevoir, and by bleeder you mean slave)

I disconnected the line that leads out from the master, and that showed alot of pressure when the pedal was pumped... I would agree though that that's not a fool proof method, but I would think with that much pressure, and a good slave, I should be getting some reasonable pedal... so I'm really thinking about that fork (and hoping it's not that, because I don't want to take this tranny apart for a 5th time : )

i don't see how disconnecting the line going to the slave would tell you anything about pressure. all that's telling you is that it is able to pump fluid out of the master cylinder, not matter how much pressure there is.

I sorta agree... it tells me that I'm getting a fair amount of pressure (it did squirt pretty high) but not necessarily that it's ENOUGH pressure...

I'm still thinking master... since a hydrolic system has a limited number of components that could fail here (I'm basically thinking pedal, some tubing (metal or rubber) and a couple of cylinders : ) Since we've replaced the slave, and the pedal and tubing look good) I'm really thinking master, but hate to spend that money if it's not necessary (esp. since the guy doesn't have much money to work with).

Oh well, looks like I'm looking at a master, unless anyone has anything else to recommend (I'm still thinking fork, but unsure if this could cause this problem....)

Thanks for all of your help - this site has proved very useful, and I have been trying to give back when and where I can.

You cant see pressure on an open system :) What you can see is good flow.

If the fork is bad its easy to tell without dropping the tranny. Have a friend actuate the pedal while you watch that fork. It should move all the way over to the side of the square hole it protrudes from. If it twists one way or the other, one leg of the "fork" is broken. Fairly common problem, especially on 2600s.