need your guys' opinion

well i hada question and i figured since the scion forums are generally quiet, id ask here. ok i just got my car, about 5 months ago, but im already lookin forward for mynext one, im lookin into the subaru wrx ( non sti one, due to lack of funds) so here it is: should i keep my tc and turbo it, keep my tc and supercharge it, trade in for wrx, or trade in for something else, obviously i wont be doin this for another 4 years but ya, nothing wrong with planning ahead.

How much power output does the SC give you on the Scion, and what about the trubo?

How much power output does the SC give you on the Scion, and what about the trubo?

on a stock tc the sc makes output to 200hp..unsure of torque numbers, no idea on turbo, need to look for one first, but i want a tc specific one, not a universal

i thought TC's had 160 hp engines? either way i'd save up and turbo it

well id go with some kind of forced induction, i like superchargers myself, so guess which one i voted for? Adding a supercharger will give you a whole new car, trust me. Everything changes, your power band, you huge speed jump, even the class of cars you race will change. I dont think theirs anymore more fun than being in a 4 banger and beating a v8, the look is just priceless.

Supercharger all the way!

dont supercharge it thats why jayson z24 runs high 14's lol do up a nice greddy turbo

dump it get somthing else thats not a sports car its a entry level encon/lux car i've heard of someone who still ran a flat 15 with the S/C

WRX, as you get faster, you'll have traction issues. The rex is awd

i thought TC's had 160 hp engines? either way i'd save up and turbo it

yea they do. i meant w/ trd sc itll bump it up to 200

Don't get a WRX, they are everywhere, and a dime a dozen...if you supercharge your scion, you will have an extremely unique car that will take a lot of people off guard, considering that if you get the TRD supercharger, you should run times in the low to mid-14's....RobtypeR take your flaming BS to the honda forum which you probably love so much, we don't accept it here, unless it's between burntrice and dampachi, then it's okay.

Sell the TC, go buy yourself a Panda, and do it Redneck style :thumbsup: . I'm sure he can teach you the ropes and what not. Late...

I said go WRX, but thats me.

Mazda B-series...lol
No but ummm, if insurance isnt an issue, FC. 3rd gen RX-7... RWD, 5 speed, round 210hp to the wheels stock (if they have a 13BTT). easily uped to mid 200's with simple modifications, ie open exaust, intake, boost controller. once you get much above 300whp you will want to ditch sequincials for a single turbo set up. the FC stock will wax your TC w/ s/c. less traction issues, lighter, along with way better handleing if you like the twisties.
or get you an old s13 and drop a JDM SR20DET in it and you iwll easily dyno 230-240 to the wheels with just a boost controller. add a lighter flywheel and fix your idle problem that is so common with these engies and lighter flywheels (as i have found out via ear) and you'll be sitting 260 to the wheels easy. s13+stock sr20=waxed s/c TC as well. 16k should have been spent on somehting better. they are nice chick cars, but other than that they blow like a cavilier.

Don't get a WRX, they are everywhere, and a dime a dozen...if you supercharge your scion, you will have an extremely unique car that will take a lot of people off guard, considering that if you get the TRD supercharger, you should run times in the low to mid-14's....RobtypeR take your flaming BS to the honda forum which you probably love so much, we don't accept it here, unless it's between burntrice and dampachi, then it's okay.


you think a weak little 200hp engine in a 2900-3000 lb car will get you in the mid to low 14's? stop dreaming. that will give him the exact same power to weight ratio of a H22 powered 5 gen prelude. those are mid to 15 flat cars.

for that car to hit mid to low 14's he would need atleast 230-260hp.

gear ratio's play a large role in 1/4 mile times. ie i have 4.10's in my rear end. with factory 28" tires. a friend is soon to get new rims and tires for his tiburon, hoping that his bolt circle will fit mine, we are going to pu a 21" diamter tire on there. let the accelerating shifting out of 1st at 18mph begin.

I say turbo/supercharge it. Why? Because insurance is good on a tC. Its still underwarrenty (If you get it before that with the supercharger) there is a TON of wrx's...Not alot of fast tC's...I also think the tC would beat a wrx on the highway

Well what do you want out of a car? New or old? Boxy or low slung? Japanese? Rare or dime a dozen? And how much do you want to spend!?

you think a weak little 200hp engine in a 2900-3000 lb car will get you in the mid to low 14's? stop dreaming. that will give him the exact same power to weight ratio of a H22 powered 5 gen prelude. those are mid to 15 flat cars.

for that car to hit mid to low 14's he would need atleast 230-260hp.
mmmmm pretty sure you're wrong, because TC's run 15.7 in the 1/4 bone stock...add at LEAST another 40 hp on top of that, and you do the math...power/weight theory doesn't always work....look at the 3 series BMW (328 in particular)....weighs 3400 lbs, has a mere 193 hp, and runs 15 flat in the 1/4.

WRX. :smokin: An STI would be even better, but Im sure funds are limited. Id vote for a turbo, especially if its a centrifugal supercharger thats made for your car. No power under the curve there! :banghead: If its a roots style, then I could go either way.

thnx much for the comments guys, appreciate it

RobTypeR didn't last too long..he said some stupid shit in a mustang thread and got banned. :loser: But yeah..I don't know man. It's kind of a tough place to be in. Personally, I'd take an STi anyday. But you might want to try something totally unique. Which is also cool..but hey..it's obvious I'm not into the whole trying to be unique thing. I have a Mustang. :icon16:

http://www.jotechracing.com/html/projectcars/projectcar_details.asp?ProjectVehicleID=55

Check out that tC.

i've seen that scion before.... that's a MONSTER.... holy cow.. just curious when they will make it to 600 in that thing

mmmmm pretty sure you're wrong, because TC's run 15.7 in the 1/4 bone stock...add at LEAST another 40 hp on top of that, and you do the math...power/weight theory doesn't always work....look at the 3 series BMW (328 in particular)....weighs 3400 lbs, has a mere 193 hp, and runs 15 flat in the 1/4.

do you think that another 40hp will bring down his e.t. by over 1 second? what world do you live in? did it ever come to mind that the bmw's could be by any chance underrated?

trust me 40hp is nothing. and 200hp is nothing. a type R makes 190hp with perfect gearing, limited slip differential, and nice tires, and weights 200lbs less. those run's a high 14 in the 1/4.

what makes you think a scion with no limited slip, taller gearing, less grippy tires, and 300 more lbs can run .2-.5's faster then a type R?

again i laugh at the statement that you even put down yourself. you even stated the car run's a high 15 stock. and you think with 40hp he'll shave off a 1.5 seconds off his E.T. rrriiiggghhhttt.

it also makes my car feel pretty bad considering the the fact that i have almost 90 horses over him ( if he gets a super charger )and my car is still only a 14 flat to high 13 second car and i weight the same as him but with better take off becuase i have RWD. most of my friends who have turbo KA's running similar power run's a high 13. so i guess him again, him making 90 less horses, taking off less, probrably making less tq then me is goin to be able to keep up with me? esp on the highway? nooooo waaaaayyyy. not a chance.

a Saturn ion redline makes 200whp and the car is rated at 200 crank hp, those run's a high 14. again making waaay more power then the Tc. yet that magical 200 crank hp Tc can somehow out run it by half a second esp since its making 30 less hp then the redline.

another example, a 03-04 max puts down 220whp in 6 speed trim, yet it only run's a high 14 in the 1/4 mile yet it only weights 200lbs more then the super charged TC. and the Tc will most likely put down 170whp for having 200hp. now being able to move 200 lbs more mass it would require around another 20whp which will bring the total up to around 190whp which is aroudn what your max should dyno at ( if its stock ) so again it should run the same time your max run's ( which is what i guessed originally ) and it should be .3 tenths slower then the 3.5 liter maxima's since its 30whp down which is a low 15 to 15 flat again.

no matter how many different ways i break this down, its just not possible.

i guess you really have no idea how quick a low 14 second car is huh?
i'm sorry but i will argue with you to the bitter end on this becuase i've never ever seen a car taht weights 3000 lbs do the 1/4 mile in mid to low 14 with only 200 crank hp. esp a rsx doesn't run that and they freaking weight 100-200 lbs less then a 200 hp tc.

overall tat has a very good point. It is not that easy to lose seconds in the 1/4 as many people seem to make it.

Anyway back to the options. The TRD SC for the scion is a very nice option. You will not have monster power but you'll be quik with a nice classy car whith full warranty.


For cheap massive power the srt4 will be your best choice. However you'll get car far more uncivilised than the tC. Some people like that some don't.


The wrx will also be a good choice, more civilised than the srt4 and AWD but it will not be as easy to make it into a power monster as the SRT4 and it will be 4k more.

A 40 hp gain in a car that makes only 160 hp is a pretty big gain...the fact that you think a 40 hp gain is nothing is asinine...I would pay a great deal of money for 40 hp if I had the financial means to do so...there is also the chevy cobalt that has been magazine tested(yeah I know, times on paper, but I have no basis for comparison) that have the same amt. of horsepower as the aforementioned redline, yet ran a low 14 second 1/4...for some reason I have a hard time believing that BMW would have a reason to underrate their motors, since their 3-series is not meant for race applications(M3 notwithstanding)...I just think it's not out of the question for a scion to run mid to low 14s with a supercharger...they aren't that slow to begin with, why would it be that pie-in-the-sky to think otherwise? Just look at Jayson's cavalier...we all know that a stock cavalier would not beat the asphalt into submission, yet his best time is well into the 14s...just because two cars have the same weight and the same horsepower, it doesn't mean that they are going to run the same times....and your 220 whp claim on the maximas(03 and 04 as you said, which are two completely different cars, by the way) are a bit optimistic, it's closer to 210...Sorry, but I just can't see a supercharged TC lingering somewhere in the 15s...if it does, something definitely isn't right....and you used a stock RSX as comparison to a supercharged TC...that's ridiculous, a supercharged TC would make a lot more horsepower at the low end of the powerband than an RSX with the same horsepower, because we all know that high rpm honda powerplants don't get into their bread and butter part of the powerband until well up in the RPM range...I guess what I'm trying to say is that supercharging that sucker would get you into the 14s.

A 40 hp gain in a car that makes only 160 hp is a pretty big gain...the fact that you think a 40 hp gain is nothing is asinine...I would pay a great deal of money for 40 hp if I had the financial means to do so...there is also the chevy cobalt that has been magazine tested(yeah I know, times on paper, but I have no basis for comparison) that have the same amt. of horsepower as the aforementioned redline, yet ran a low 14 second 1/4...for some reason I have a hard time believing that BMW would have a reason to underrate their motors, since their 3-series is not meant for race applications(M3 notwithstanding)...I just think it's not out of the question for a scion to run mid to low 14s with a supercharger...they aren't that slow to begin with, why would it be that pie-in-the-sky to think otherwise? Just look at Jayson's cavalier...we all know that a stock cavalier would not beat the asphalt into submission, yet his best time is well into the 14s...just because two cars have the same weight and the same horsepower, it doesn't mean that they are going to run the same times....and your 220 whp claim on the maximas(03 and 04 as you said, which are two completely different cars, by the way) are a bit optimistic, it's closer to 210...Sorry, but I just can't see a supercharged TC lingering somewhere in the 15s...if it does, something definitely isn't right....and you used a stock RSX as comparison to a supercharged TC...that's ridiculous, a supercharged TC would make a lot more horsepower at the low end of the powerband than an RSX with the same horsepower, because we all know that high rpm honda powerplants don't get into their bread and butter part of the powerband until well up in the RPM range...I guess what I'm trying to say is that supercharging that sucker would get you into the 14s.

again wrong. you say that jayson's cavlier is faster then the rsx becasue you think hes making more power then the rsx type S. wrong. look at jayson's trap speed. he only traps at 91 mph. a stock rsx type S traps at 93 mphs on average. which means the rsx type S still has more hp then jayson's caliver. granted jayson's E.T is very good for that low trap speed becasue he did run a 2.0 or 2.1 on the 60 ft time. however RSX's also also known to dip into the 14's with an excellent driver atleast.

anothe comparisons for comparison's sake, right now i'm in the high 13's you know how much power i need to get to make it into the mid 12 to low 12's? i would need another 130whp to shave around 1.5 seconds off my 1/4 mile time. so why da hell do i need 130 more whp to run a mid to low 12? then that magical TC can shave that much off with only 40 crank hp ( around 35whp? )

doesn't this make any sense to you? and yes my car does need around 350-380whp to run mid to low 12's. again its been done many times. we can also fit 9" wide wheels in the back for better traction so we can take off in the high 1's in the 6ft. so don't even start with that on the scion will do better in the 1/8 mile because hes a FWD and he'll just spin his tires helplessly 1st and 2nd.

also yes you are right to an extent that 40 hp gain on a 160 hp car is pretty big. however i just don't see a 3000 lb 200 hp car lingering around my cars terrortory of speed. i mean hell i might as well sell my car and get a Tc then if i can shave over a second off with only 40 hp. lolz

also i didn't want to bring this up becusae you want to use g-tec times. my car before i turboed it ran a 15.5 a stock 240sx runs a 16.0 so i shaved half a second off with pulley's, intake, advanced timing, no cat,and cat back exhuast. this combo is proven to again 20whp or around 25 crank hp. this means that i had a total hp of 180 and i was a mid 15 second car at best. which is around right comparing that the tc can run a 15.7 with 160 crank hp.

me putting down close to 150whp n/a trim i put down around 100 more whp and guess what? i shaved off around 1.5 seconds to 1.8 seconds off my e.t. ( guessimate ). how da hell is it goin to take me close to 100whp to shave fo that time, when me and that Tc only needs 35whp when we both are at a similar starting point?

please explain this to me? does nissan make crappy cars that only makes power but no go? or is that scion just some magical savior of a import car?

also the times i've seen a cobalt run is low 15's to mid 14's tops. and rememver that colbalt is still making waaaaay more power that a super charged Tc is. remember 200whp > 170whp. also my mistake about confusing the 5th with the 6th gen maxima. i meant to say 02-03 max it was a typo. trust me i know alot about nissans as well. i'm am a fellow nissan fan like you, however i don't live in la la land and i don't believe in every claim that i see from ad's for power. there is no magical 35whp that will shave 1.5 seconds off yoru 1/4 mile unless your car weights under a ton.

you also say just because 2 cars have the same weight and power doesn't mean they're goin to run the same speed, well true to only like .2-.3 max. i've never seen one become almost starting from .5-.7 faster for no reason at all unless it was underrated.

i will try to end this with his last comparison. lets take a look at a toyota mr2 turbo. that car weights 100-200 lbs less then the Tc. now its rated a 200 hp and 200 lbs ft of tq. now the 3SGTE makes the 200lbs ft of tq at a whoopingly low 2500-3000 rpm. so it has crazy crazy low end and good top end from the turbos. also a MR2 turbo from 93+ have wider 225mm wide tires compared tot he 90-02 models which ran 215's. also they hvae a limited slip.

these cars take off at around 5000 rpm with hardly any wheel spin. it quit literally just spins the rear tires twice before the whole car just leaps off the line without any wheel spin nor does the revs drop. so basically the car is jumping off the line close to 30mph. guess what they run stock? they run a 14.7 how da hell is that Tc goin to out run a MR2 which makes just as much low end tq, but can take off almost as hard as a AWD car and still end up running .5 seconds faster then the blown scion?

i have used soooooo many cars in this comparison its not even funny you only manage to use 2. also how about this? a dsm run's a high 14 from the factory, they weight 3000 lbs for a GST. guess how much hp it needs to dip into the high 14's? how about 220hp? again you see? this one needed even more becasue it was a freaking 3000 lb car. while a rsx type S which makes 20 less hp but weights 200 lbs less can do the same thing with a great driver? do you see where i'm coming here? i can pratically name every power to weight ratio and it will turn up with veyr very close numbers, but never off by almost a 1 second. that is ludicris.

TatII, I know i say this alot, but you're the man.

Tats right here. Street_racer_00, using your argument, I should be running a flat 14 once I get this intake.

BMW 328+Jaysons Cavy+acura RSX-S+chevy cobalt+S/C'd TC=2 cars, apparently.

BMW 328+Jaysons Cavy+acura RSX-S+chevy cobalt+S/C'd TC=2 cars, apparently.


hahah so apparently all of these cars run's low 14's with only 200 hp right? give me a break. my argument is that its very very hard to come by a car that can run a low 14 with only 200 hp. those examples you pointed only added strenght to my arguement. non of these cars you listed runs a low 14.

you know what? why don't you go prove me wrong. go search on the net and find me a super charged Tc running on stock 6 psi ( or 200 crank hp ) that can run a low 14 and i will never question your logic ever again.

i still find it funny that you think a 3000 lb car with a only 200 hp can run a low 14.

how about civicHBsi91's car? that weights well around 2200 lbs with a swapped engine and hes running nitrous and he runs a freaking low 14.

how is a again a 3000lb car making less power then him goin to run the same speed he is? and don't tell me its becusae the super charger got more low end tq. that is bullhshit because it will only further add to his handicap because he'll be spinning the shit out of his tires off the line and he'll still lack the top end of a turbo car, or a car running spray at the 2nd portion of the track ( like how civicHBsi91 is doing ) if low end tq is so great, he would hit the spray right off the line but hes smarter then that and on street tires on a non prepared surface ( race track ) he'll just spin his tires and first gear becomes completely useless. why don't you go and try to drive a SRT-4 or a turbo charged teg and find out how hard it is to find traction in a high powered FWD. then come back and talk to me, becuase apparently you've never driven any of them to know their strenghts and weaknesses.

argue with me all you want but so far no one has sided with you yet. i use to respect what you say, but now its on the iffy side.

edit: i just tried to do some research on a supercharged Tc and found nothing. however i found out that the stock Tc only traps at 88 mph. which means it would take the car around 20 seconds to hit 0-100mph. a low 14 second car will hit 100mph in around 5 seconds faster. looking at the trap speed is the way to determine pure hp. for a fwd to run a lower e.t generally requires higher hp becuase they make up for the poor 60' time by using top end. a low 14 second fwd usually traps over 95-100mph. good luck trying to add 7-12 mph from just 40hp as all people here would knows enough about car would be almost utterly impossible to do that kind of progress with only 40 crank hp esp since the super charger would only add more weight to the car.

the only reason why jayson runs such a low e.t with such a low trap speed is because he has a automatic. its a like a double edge sword, you can get alot more consistency with a auto tranny off the line esp if you have good low end tq. the auto tranny lets you take off without spinning too much power, and since jayson has good low end tq the auto tranny didn't hurt his low end performance as much. so he can move yet the tranny will restriction him enough just to not spin those wheels too much. however the auto's problem shows in the 2nd half of the track by sucking up too much power up top thats why he has such a low trap speed for his 1/4 time. a type R would run the same time but will trap at 97 mph compared to jayson 91 mph.

BMW 328

Low 14? Doubt that. Try a low 15 (15.2ish) for the base sedan, high 14/low 15 (bout a 15flat) for the Ci or iS versions. A 330Ci with the sports package might put you in the mid to higher low 14s.

I generally use a 10hp = one tenth off your 1/4 mile, lose 100 pounds of non-rotational mass, another tenth off standard. That's not always 100% true..but it's kind of a guideline you can use and be somewhat accurate. So, let's say you run a 15.7 now. when you get your 40hp extra..I'd assume you run a 15.3. And I'm pretty sure Type-Rs run faster than high 14s. More like mid. I met a guy who ran a 14.4 with his Type-R. And he claimed it was stock..so yeah.

http://www.dragtimes.com/Acura-Integra-Timeslip-195.html
14.3@96mph

http://www.dragtimes.com/Acura-Integra-Timeslip-1566.html
14.8@96mph

http://www.dragtimes.com/Acura-Integra-Timeslip-711.html
14.9@93mph

http://www.dragtimes.com/Acura-Integra-Timeslip-106.html
15.3!!!!!!!!!! LOL!

Fine, I'm done arguing, you're right, I'm wrong, you know everything, I know nothing...I'm over it already, Jesus H. Christ. Cassiesman, I never said a 328 would run low 14's, I believe I said around a 15 flat, if you look back in the first post which I mentioned it...no I never have driven all those cars, I have only owned one car my entire life...have you driven all of them?

Fine, I'm done arguing, you're right, I'm wrong, you know everything, I know nothing...I'm over it already, Jesus H. Christ. Cassiesman, I never said a 328 would run low 14's, I believe I said around a 15 flat, if you look back in the first post which I mentioned it...no I never have driven all those cars, I have only owned one car my entire life...have you driven all of them?


one of my best friend owns a STi, my other best friend owns a EVO, my other best friend owns a MR2 turbo, one of my best friends owns a S2000, i know another guy who owns a type R,i'm good friends with a guy that owns a 13 second 240, i'm good friends with a guy who owns a turbo Teg, i'm good friends with a guy that owns a SRT-4, one of my best friends owns a 03 max. one of my co workers owns a RSX-type S, and two of my good friends own h22 powered preludes, i've also driven twin turbo supra's ( automatic though ) i've sat in E36 M3's and E46 M3's as well. i know it sounds unbelieveable but i've had my share of other car's experiences.

i've driven 90% of those cars, and i've ridden in 100% of all of them. and i am 100% aware of what they are capable of.

there is no way a 200hp Tc can even take down, let alone keep up with half of those cars on the list. i'm sure my friends 93 special edition V-tec lude will make short work of it since he has a factory freak.

Hmm...H22a engine in those '93 ludes right? (I'm not all up on honda engines)....those things are fast just the way they are....like high 14 second cars, right?

you have alot of best friends :screwy: :iceslolan

lol...I know...even if I had as many best friends as he did, they'd all have crappy cars anyway.

Hmm...H22a engine in those '93 ludes right? (I'm not all up on honda engines)....those things are fast just the way they are....like high 14 second cars, right?

yes the 93 special edition prelude is the third production honda to ever use the v-tec system. the first one would be on the NSX with the C30A and the next one is found in the 2nd gen teg GS-R with the B17A, and like a year later on the special edition 93 ludes.

those can run a high 14 with a excellent driver stock. however the car weights 2800lbs and have 190hp, and have decent tq in the 150 range. my friends lude has a intake, and exhuast and thats it.however its weird becasue when he raced my other friend with a Type R with a cold air intake, the type R got him off the line becuase of the LSD and got him by a car, but by the time they hit 3rd, the lude was catching up!!!

and the type R traps at 97 mph stock. which means that my friends lude is trapping atleast that. which is abnormally high for a near stock h22a powered lude. those trap speed rivals those of a S2000. again that prelude is able to keep up with me and my friend witht he S2000, and my friend with the MR2 turbo.

as much as i hate to admit it, that freaking car is amazingly fast for what it is, it catches alot of people by surprise.

we are tryin to arrange a race between him and my other friend with the SRT4 just for shits and giggles. i'm sure he'll probrably be like right on his tail ( around like 3-4 cars back )

Didn't those si preludes have that weird ass 4 wheel steering too?

the Si is totally different from a special edition. only the 93's were called special editions becasue they are very rare. and then from 94 on they were just called v-tec ludes.

the Si ran on a H23 which is basically a 2.3 liter twin cam 16 valve non v-tec engine that made aroudn 160hp from what i remember. those weren't too fast, and they had that AWS. its kinda like how the 5th gen ludes got the SH model with the ATTS system. ( active torque transfer system )

That's right, I forgot that the top of the line ludes were just called the "vtec" trim...I guess I'm just used to top of the line honda products being called si or type R.

i would probably supercharge it. i own a '03 Cobra and of course its supercharged stock but its fun as hell, plus i also SC my '93 Cobra. i also have done a shit ton of other mods. so i would SC the Tc, as well as some other mods.


p.s.fucking alphabet soup

you have alot of best friends :screwy: :iceslolan

haha yes i do alot of good friends and probrably only 5 best friends that i grew up with. remember this is nyc. we meet people all the time, out of like 100 people i meet, only like 5 of those people i will trust enough to be my friends or is actually worth hanging out with.

so i've known these people for a long time, and these guys have never sold me out for anything or was always there for me esp when things got ugly so definitly good friends that helps out with money etc.

and i just happen to live in a nice middle class neighborhood in nyc. you saw spiderman right? i live in that same neighborhood as aunt may i even know where they shot her house, and i also know where they shot the scene where peter was just tryin to webswing for the first time.

thats why most of my friends drive nice cars, but its all buy luck

2 of my friends got into big accidents so the one with the evo, the insurance gave 10K for his wrecked lude, and he used that as a downpayment for his EVO and he pays the rest off himself.

the one with the STi got rear ended in his accord, and he poped his shoulder, so he sued the guy and got a STi.

the guy the S2000 just got it as a gift fromt his parents ( no good )

the guy with the MR2 turbo took out a personal loan from his parents ( all paided off already )

the guy with the RX-7 TT his parents bought him the car ( but he pays for all the repairs and maintaineses )

the guy with the turbo Teg bought the car from a salvage auction, fixed the whole car himself, then built the engine, then turboed it himself.

and the other guy bought the prelude special edition with his own money.

so as you see half of my friends bought the cars' themselves. ( too ashamed to mention the rest of them because they're parents bought them there cars )

however i also hang out with different clicks. the main people i hang out with is only 3. however all of our clicks use to be one big group of friends like around 50 large. then it sorta seperated into like 10 different sub groups casue our interest changed. however we never see each other any differently and still have get togethers such as b.b.q's on many ocassions or just me

et up at a bar or karokee.

You ever go to Bear Mountain? I got a pretty good vid of the DTM guys out there...

shhh be quiet about bear mountain!

bear mountain? that sounds dangerous. :( what with all the bears and all...