strange issue, indeed

Hi to all, it has been a while but I guess that is good news.

the backstory:
I have a 1994 v6 Camaro involved in a flood, took her apart and replaced a buttload of pieces, put her back together and hit the road.

Two things I have not replaced were the battery and the alternator.

Driving down the highway today, I hit my rear defogger switch and it seemed for a second like my girl wanted to stall. (Of coarse at 75 that is kind of hard.) there were no other electrical componants on at the time. (Other than the engine, and engine management stuff.)

So, my question is:

Is there any way to determine which needs to be replaced, battery or the alternator, in a situation like the one mentioned above.

Thanks for any help or advice you have!

Jack

Start the car, run it for like 3 minutes. turn on all the power accesorys and then pull the positive battery terminal. If it stalls. then its the alternator. If it stumbles for a sec then volts come back up or doesn't stumble at all then alternator is fine and maybe you could use a battery. Also welcome back.

John

Seeing how you didnt replace either one, I'd say replace both anyway

It is never a good idea to remove the battery cables on a computer controlled car while it is running.

who told you that?

Honestly, I don't think it's the battery or the alternator, if everything was fine until you turned the rear defog on then perhaps your problem lies within that.

Formulalt1--interesting idea, but I have heard it said in this forum NOT to disconnect the battery when the car is running---but you say that if I do this it is the alternator, and NOT the battery? 97camarors posted "replace them both", good idea but if I had that kind of scratch, I wouldn't be begging for help! So, other than removing the positive battery cable while the car is running, there is no way to determine if the battery or the alternator is defective?

Contrary to what some guy told some guy. Your not going to short anything out or blow up your car from pulling the positive battery terminal. It is infact a testing method done in almost every dealership in the world. Plus if you have a healthy charging system your car won't even blink. If it stalls your car alternator isn't giving enough juice to keep your car running let alone charge your battery like it should be doing.

John

Dude...whoa...
1: If your car turned into a submarine as the pictures state you should check all the wiring for any rust/corrosion and or breaks.
2: If there is any pulley connected to the engine for that maybe you should check that too.

I dunno if theri s a pully. Otherwise take it into a mechanic and ask wtf. :)

who told you that?
Ummm, lets see..GM, My owners manual, every mechanic I've talked to...pretty much everyone.

Also, if you do pull the battery cable the car will shutoff no matter if the alt/battery are good, bad or whatever. You have just removed power to the ECM, which is tapped off the positive cable on a pigtail, no ECM= no injectors, no sensors & no workie.

The old pull the battery cable tricked worked great, until the advent of F/I.

seems like I started quite the debate! Sorry! Xeno mentions a pully, I am not clear on what he's talking about. Also says to check the wiring, good advice. Thanks guys--

Also, if you do pull the battery cable the car will shutoff no matter if the alt/battery are good, bad or whatever. You have just removed power to the ECM, which is tapped off the positive cable on a pigtail, no ECM= no injectors, no sensors & no workie..
Dude I have tested this method on my FUEL INJECTED car plenty of times and if your going to correct me with bogus info again. I would prefer you not reply at all. The alternator is what charges your coil, your power accesory's and your PCM. Follow your positive power terminal. If you disconnect the Ground then yes the car would die or stall but the postive terminal has a 3 way way wire split. One goes to the battery, one to the alternator and the other is connect ot a terminal that runs to the PCM amongst a few. Also youn must be reading something incorrectly cause my uncle had worked at a dealer for about 20 years before he bought his own shop and he is a Automotive electrical engineer specialist and he is the one who taught me how to test this way. So if he is wrong then the world makes a little less sense to me.

y dont you just do it the easy way and take your car down to advace auto and have them test everything for free with their diagnostic tool...

Ja... Uh pulleys the lil spinner discs that turn the belts on the front of the crank on the front of your engine. e.e that kinda thing... uh yah.... (not good with technical details)

Dude
First off, I am not a "dude".
secondly, trace the wire coming off the battery that has a nice little fuse in it, that powers the ECM and fuel pump. pull that cable and it all shuts down, period. I have been working on cars for 30+ years now and know them pretty well, I have been working on TPI's for the entire 20 years they have been around and know how they do and don't work.
You don't like my advice..don't take it. Bogus? Hardly.

Oh, and another reason not to remove the battery cable from a running car is that the ECM's are VERY intolerant of voltage spikes and have no way to protect themselves. But hey, they only cost $110+, so take a chance

First off, I am not a "dude".
secondly, trace the wire coming off the battery that has a nice little fuse in it, that powers the ECM and fuel pump. pull that cable and it all shuts down, period. I have been working on cars for 30+ years now and know them pretty well, I have been working on TPI's for the entire 20 years they have been around and know how they do and don't work.
You don't like my advice..don't take it. Bogus? Hardly.

Oh, and another reason not to remove the battery cable from a running car is that the ECM's are VERY intolerant of voltage spikes and have no way to protect themselves. But hey, they only cost $110+, so take a chance


ECMs are very intolerant of voltage spikes???? Post OBD1 ECMs are internally protected.

Besides, in order to have a voltage spike worth anything, you would have to have a variable load on the eletrical system, for example, turning the headlights on and off while you are doing this test.

Also, have you not had an alt. go out on you while you are driving?? I garuntee there are more severe voltage spikes when you are driving with only a battery as compared to sitting in your driveway with the car idling with the battery disconnected.

I work at a Cat's proving grounds, we write the service manuals for cat machines there. There are certian things you always have to include in your manuals. If there is ANY chance of damage to a part you have to print it. Hell we have to print that if you use a bearing puller on a bearing, you might destroy the bearing. Kind of common sense I would think.

I do that test to my GN all the time.

oh, if you are refering to a fuseable link, that is for your charging system... something that can make 60-150 amps (depending on your system) I would hope that had a huge fuse link in it

First off, I am not a "dude".
secondly, trace the wire coming off the battery that has a nice little fuse in it, that powers the ECM and fuel pump. pull that cable and it all shuts down, period. I have been working on cars for 30+ years now and know them pretty well, I have been working on TPI's for the entire 20 years they have been around and know how they do and don't work.
You don't like my advice..don't take it. Bogus? Hardly.

Oh, and another reason not to remove the battery cable from a running car is that the ECM's are VERY intolerant of voltage spikes and have no way to protect themselves. But hey, they only cost $110+, so take a chanceOK here are the battery cables from a 94 V6 I am holding the positive 3 wire split section you point out a fuse to me http://img230.exs.cx/img230/3554/picture31lx.jpg.
Whats that ? oh yeah there isn't one. Also as Hypsi mentioned they are internally protected. BTW I hope you didn't take the term dude the wrong way I lived in Cali for a small amount of time and picked the term up but as a moderator should let you know your treading thin line on the personal attack clause and don't correct me with incorrect info again and if you do make it sound nicer. Warning #1.

John

t as a moderator should let you know your treading thin line on the personal attack clause and don't correct me with incorrect info again and if you do make it sound nicer. Warning #1.

John

Personal attack?? Where????
My information is/was not incorrect...but if you feel you need to ban me because I disagree with you, go ahead, thats what free speech is all about.

I am not about banning anyone. Like I have said its treading on personal attack. Your replying to me with a very sarcastic undertone. I just asked who told you that and you went off on some crusade. I have been working on and studying F-body's for a while now. I am no newbie please don't disrespect me by telling me I don't know what I am talking about and thats why I want to warn you before it went any further. I have no problem with you but I would ask for some respect in return that is all. Hope this can end here but if you find the need to carry on that is fine too. Hope this is done though.

John

oh, if you are refering to a fuseable link, that is for your charging system... something that can make 60-150 amps (depending on your system) I would hope that had a huge fuse link in it

No, I am reffering to a fuse, a blade type fuse in a fuse holder clipped to the inside of the RH fender, not a fuseable link, and it is only 10-20 amps. That fuse powers the ECM & FP on the TPI cars.

Removing the positive terminal can cause damage as the battery acts as a sort of a buffer (capacitor) for the electrical system. It's easy enough to diagnose charging system problems without taking any risks anyways.

Welcome to the forum leejoagogo (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=300878).

John

Back to orginal prob [sorry guys it was amusing] when you hit the defog it reacts the resistor in alternator at worst replace resistor 4 bones

............So, other than removing the positive battery cable while the car is running, there is no way to determine if the battery or the alternator is defective?Yes there is Jack. Put a voltmeter on the battery while the car is off, and ideally been parked overnight. The voltage should read approximately 12 volts. When you start the car the voltage should rise to approximately 14 once you let go of the key. If there is no rise replace the alternator..§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§REFUSE . . TO . . LOSE§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§

if you would not mind me interupting, but if, like FormulaLT1 said, you trace the line from the alt. to the battery, you notice a nice chunk of metal comming off of your battery. that's the battery terminal. disconnecting your battery is not bad, in fact, formula is right, it is a technique for quickly testing your battery. Just make sure to pull the negative terminal. the battery will still act like a capacitor, but it WILL NOT supply juice to the system, since there is no electrical return. before you reply, ponder on this. the battery supplies juice to the TERMINAL, not the wires directly. the juice from the alternator also goes to the battery TERMINAL (not the wires directly), and thus connects to all the other wires. So, if you take your battery out while the car is running, nothing bad will happen. I do it ALL THE TIME on all sorts of cars and trucks ranging from old beaters to brand-spank'n new cars. Look, I may be new to this forum, but I know what I know, and I know what I don't know. I know this, there's no debating it. If you have any questions, I will gladly take them. Quit this retarded game of ignorance and just do it. You won't be disapointed.

Why are you bringing up this old thread? It was dead in march...

Quit this retarded game of ignorance and just do it. You won't be disapointed.
WOW a blast from the past...Take your own advice and a couple of 'ludes.

My bad, I didn't see the date

I guess the mods will let it slide since you're a newbie.

Its a newbie right of passage, we have all done it. No biggie.

Hey Guys,

I know this got heated in parts, but I have to say thanks to all of the people out there who know more than I do about Camaros (and that is a lot of people!), and are willing to take the time to respond to my questions!

This forum is a great resource and that is because of the PEOPLE involved!

Hats off to ALL!!! I might not agree with you but I sure will listen to what you have to say!!!

With Gratitude,

Jack