turboing a N/A engine

hey everyone, im planning in getting the KLZE engine for my ford probe, and the engine is a NA, but i want to go ahead and turbo it, so i've contacted my engine supplier, and they want to know specifficly what i want to do to the engine, do i just go ahead and get forged internals, or should i do more, to make the engine more reliable? thanks everyone,
-tom

ohh yea, anyone know what size/kind of turbo i should get, it is going to be a v6 2.5l (2.8 after boring out the cylinders), should i get a twin turbo on it? also, are those exhaust turbo's anygood? i have seen them at numerous exhaust shops, and was wondering if they really worked good. thanks
-tom

i would go with a twin setup just because it is a V engine. the exhaust plumbing will be easier to setup. you may want to look into a 3 or 4 angle valve job, head porting/polishing, bigger fuel pump and injectors, and make sure your cooling system can keep up (radiator/fan).

if someone were to write a book of the general rules for turbocharging or creating a custom turbo setup, the exhast turbo would break pretty much all of them. of course they work. but their efficieny and performance are terrible. there have been numerous threads on here about them if you want to learn more.

dont overbore and engine your going to boost. . .overboring will decrease your max redline as well as weaken your cylinder walls. Overbore+Boost equals bad combination.

ohh ok, thanks jayson, and thanks reed, so in order to keep my system from over heating, am i going to have to install 2 intercoolers? or will one be sufficiant?

just one intercooler. try to get a good front mount make sure you look at the cfm (how much it flows). two intercoolers will give you bad lag.
when i said cooling system i was talking about the radiator mostly. your stock one might be fine but you may need a better one.

ok sounds good, thanks

You might be alright with boring it to a 2.8L. I know the 3.0L duratec in a taurus is a 2.5L thats just been bored another .5L. You just need to make sure the integrity of the cylinder walls is alright at that displacment. Your going to be creating more heat with a larger displacent obviously. Something to take into consideration. I would recommend a T-28 turbo or T3/T4. The T-28 will give you almost immediate boost. Id say with a 2.8L, youll be making full boost at around 2,700 RPMS or so. With the T3/T4, youll see full boost at about 4,000 RPMS but youll make higher peak numbers.

A twin turbo because its a V engine. Thats just retarded. Lets run a turbo off each bank and reduce the heat of the manifolds so we can significantly increase boost lag. Great idea. :screwy: Not to mention, youll make no more hp with a twin turbo setup than you will a single turbo. Just ask all the supra guys who convert their TT supras to a single turbo. A twin turbo setup on a probe would just be for a 'pimp' factor.

A rear mounted turbo will loose significant energy since its positioned so far away from the engine, youll experience a lot of boost lag.

Id look into getting a spearco water/air intercooler. A lot less plumbing needed than a air/air, not to mention it generally has a higher efficiency. Only downside, is youll have to exchange the water in the resevoir to keep the best results.

Get some custom pistons with some turbo application rings, beefier rods, get the crank balanced, upgraded bearings, a 3" exhaust and call it a day. :2cents:

Go with a T3/T04. Most of the KA guys running them get spool by at least 3K. But that really depends on turbine wheel trim and exhaust housing AR.

One of the major obstacles you will have to overcome is that the fuel and ignition maps in the ECU are designed for a NA engine. Fuel is a pretty easy fix, but ignition isn't so easy when you take the easy fuel route. ECU retune is probably the best way to go short of a stand-alone.

Air-air intercooler is probably best for the street. The ones avaliable now already have pretty high efficiency rates.

Overbuilding an engine is impossible.

hmmm, lots of good idea's, im actually really glad that a tt isn't any better then a single turbo, because that is alot less $$$ for me to pay, my goal with moddifying my probe, is to keep it looking as stock as possible, but then being able have alot of power (that no one will be expecting). im not really into the whole "pimping" thing, but man, i would love to pull next to a ricey car, because there are tons of those things out here, and have the guy behind the wheel think he's got another quick win, then when i take off, he is like HOLY SHIT! lol, but that's all while im going to H.S/ college, and working at mc'd's lol, HEY IM A MANAGER DAMMIT! haha, any way, where can i get the t-28? and if im going to have a turbo, is it better to get a CAI and to candium plate the tubing, to prevent the air from becoming really hot? also, would getting a differn't hood (one with vents) make a significant change in under hood temp's? this is sounding like it's going to be more and more expensive, but i'd rather do it right the first time, then screw it all up, and end up spending 3x the amount i would have, just because i was impatiant. thanks for everyone's input! I LOVE THIS SITE!!!

hmmm, lots of good idea's, im actually really glad that a tt isn't any better then a single turbo, because that is alot less $$$ for me to pay, my goal with moddifying my probe, is to keep it looking as stock as possible, but then being able have alot of power (that no one will be expecting). im not really into the whole "pimping" thing, but man, i would love to pull next to a ricey car, because there are tons of those things out here, and have the guy behind the wheel think he's got another quick win, then when i take off, he is like HOLY SHIT! lol, but that's all while im going to H.S/ college, and working at mc'd's lol, HEY IM A MANAGER DAMMIT! haha, any way, where can i get the t-28? and if im going to have a turbo, is it better to get a CAI and to candium plate the tubing, to prevent the air from becoming really hot? also, would getting a differn't hood (one with vents) make a significant change in under hood temp's? this is sounding like it's going to be more and more expensive, but i'd rather do it right the first time, then screw it all up, and end up spending 3x the amount i would have, just because i was impatiant. thanks for everyone's input! I LOVE THIS SITE!!!

A engine build up/turbo setup is always more expensive than what you expect. Expect to pay about $5000 for a high quality turbo kit with everything included to make it a "bolt on" kit. Contact www.arizonadynochip.com. Thats who I bought my kit from and they could sell you a turbo. Dont forget your going to need drivetrain upgrades as well. (i.e. clutch, flywheel, axles, limited slip differential, etc). Not to scare you off, but if you wanna do this right, your probably looking at about $10,000. Let us know how it goes! :smokin:

Your going to want to have the coldest air draw as possible, so perhaps a located intake in your fender would be most ideal. Underhood temps are going to get pretty hot since a turbo creates quite a bit of heat. I wouldnt worry about the coating on your intake pipe. With and without it would be unnoticable. The parts you may want to get coated is your exhaust piping. Retaining heat on the exhaust side of the turbo is key! Might want to send your parts off to jet hot to be coated. I just wrapped mine with some 1500 degree header wrap instead. Either one works.

EDIT: btw, since your an OBD-1 vehicle, that may add some complexities to the tuning.

sorry, but what is an obd-1 vehicle? and 10,000 isn't too scary of a number, sure it's a ton of money, but this is going to have to be spaced out over a couple of years, any way im thinking after all the drivatrain upgrades, it is going to be around 15,000. do you think i should maybe get a better car to start with, instead of the probe? thanks again
-tom

ohh one more q, is it better to slowly build up my car, or to just save all the money, and then when i think i will have enough, do it all at once? thanks

might i add, i have 122k miles on my car...

might i add, i have 122k miles on my car...

Well, if your rebuilding the engine and adding all new pistons, rings, etc...mileage isnt going to really matter on the bottom end. The electrical underneath the hood will definetely show its wear and can have a tendency to crack from the hot under hood temps.

Honestly, I would do this all at once. For one, keep your money in the bank as long as you can. If your just going to have parts sitting in your garage collecting dust, you might has well just have your money in the bank making interest. And two, people all the time starting buy parts for a car to get ready, and then down the road, they realize they cant afford their project and they have to end up selling their parts they just bought and losing money on the whole ordeal.

OBD-I is the engine management thats used. OBD-II which is used on the 96 and present is much easier when it comes to tuning. Its up to you whether you want to do this on a probe. It will definetely be unique and not be like every other mustang and ls1 on the road. Plus its fun being a sleeper. :iceslolan

OBD=On Board Diagnostics IIRC. Its just a system for scanning for problems in your ECU. OBDII systems have a few more sensors than OBDI. Shouldn't really make a difference when adding a turbocharger to your car. At least it doesn't on 240sx's. Actually Greddy only makes a kit for OBDII 240sx's. Not that I like Greddy too much.

hey, ok thanks, would a super chip or whatever take care of all the engine management? i've been looking into getting one installed, because im doing the swap for the jdm engine, and with the engine you need to buy seperate (for like 300) the jdm ecu, if you want to get all of the power out of it. so im thinking, that maybe i should get like a venom management system, it would make it alot easier to tune and everything, right? thanks
-tom

ooh one more thing, how much boost would/should i run out of a t-28?

a generic superchip thats just guessed on your mods is not going to cut it. Do it right and put it on a dyno, and have someone tune it and either reflash the ecu or burn you a chip. Youll probably be able to run about 9-11 psi with the T-28 and make about 250-270 whp on 93 octane.

so do you mean not getting the super chip? and just have some one program my ecu? i diddn't know you could program stock ecu's.

so do you mean not getting the super chip? and just have some one program my ecu? i diddn't know you could program stock ecu's. thanks, about how much is it to get some one to do all of that?

Yes, you can reflash the ecu. Thats how mine is done. I took it to a dyno, they plugged their labtop in the OBD-II port, and tuned after each pull they changed the settings on the ecu. If your just going to call up superchips and say, hey i need a chip because i have a turbo kit, thats a very piss poor way of doing it.

whether you want to keep the probe or not is completely up to you, just remeber that it is a front drive car and you will eventually (especially with the budget you are talking about) run into traction problems. is that motor longitudinally or transversely mounted? i ask cause i am curious of how you will rout the exhaust.

whether you want to keep the probe or not is completely up to you, just remeber that it is a front drive car and you will eventually (especially with the budget you are talking about) run into traction problems. is that motor longitudinally or transversely mounted? i ask cause i am curious of how you will rout the exhaust.

yes its tranversely mounted. Arent all fwd cars? Piping shouldnt be an issue. Downpipe connects to the catback in the stock location. Heres pictures of my kit being fabbed up at ADC on their engine 'template'. Im sure the probe has more room underneath the hood than the contour does, so space definetely should not be an issue.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/503000-503999/503505_113_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/503000-503999/503505_112_full.jpg

GTs are turboed stock aren't they? So its not like a first time thing.

Agreed with BeyondloadedSE, don't just call them for a chip. You never know, they may send you something that leans out the fuel curve and advances timing. Great for NA, but very very bad for a FI engine. Do it right, or do it again.

hey only the first gen probe's were turbo charged. the second gen (93-97) are just v6 2.5 l. any way, ok how much will they charge to flash an ecu and all? thanks
also, i might just get a vr4, ill see what happens

hey only the first gen probe's were turbo charged. the second gen (93-97) are just v6 2.5 l. any way, ok how much will they charge to flash an ecu and all? thanks
also, i might just get a vr4, ill see what happens

Only the older probes were turboed, not to mention they were 4 cylinders.

The place I went to was $450 and $200 for each additional tune if need be.