NSX II

So, I've finally gotten around to starting the model I've been aching to build for a while, the NSX II. We all know that the NSX is an aging platform, and it needs an update. Looking at Honda's current lineups and what they'll probably be building in a couple years, I've put together what I think the NSX II will run. An AWD, N/A V8 powered supercar, that won't be much of a departure from the perfectly balanced, beautifully handling NSX they make already.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII01.jpg

The engine is made of two F20C blocks, as I figure they would use a similar architecture (similar enough). I always thought the rear hatch was graceless, and with a longitudinally mounted V8 I have the excuse I need to lengthen the hatch (Thanks for the Modena body, Vric, though I hope I don't hurt your feelings with how little of it I used. It probably could have gone to a better home!) Wheels will be Aoshima NT03s with the little spokes cut out. Much more down the line.

Great idea for the engine! I don't suppose you got it from the Caterham RST-V8 with the dual crotch-rocket V8?

Your off to a great start Will! Plans look very promising! The NT03's look suprisingly well without the ring on the spokes! Engine looks awesome! Maddd VTAC YO! :biggrin:

Interesting concept! So can we expect 480hp from the new engine :grinno:
How do you plan on rigging the awd setup with the tranny config shown?

looking good so far cant wait to see more! :)

strange turn for this car originally intended to be a Ferrari Killer...
ah well, if you can't beat it, just join it (what you did literally)
sure will be an interesting project to follow. what else is planned on the body?

Oli

PS, I also really appreciate the rims modification!

Awesome man. I've been wonderin when it was going to be started. You've been talking about it since when, October, November, maybe earlier?

BTW, want me to change the title to NSX II, instead of Nsx Ii?

mad project! willimo you're at it again, after the i hate model thread. hehe! as for the next nsx, honda axed it and they have no plans to make a second gen s2k either. from what i read and heard from some other enthusiasts.

mad project! willimo you're at it again, after the i hate model thread. hehe! as for the next nsx, honda axed it and they have no plans to make a second gen s2k either. from what i read and heard from some other enthusiasts.

Can't say I didn't see it coming, though.

Great idea!

cool, idea i'll be checking up on this

Same here. I like your idea. Keep it up.

Cool project Willimo. And I'm sure you'll bring this to a good end! Keep it coming!

sweet,cant wait to see it on the streets ;)

How do you plan on rigging the awd setup with the tranny config shown?

Not really sure, I've got to do some research. I would look at Porsche layouts, but they seem to put their trannies ahead of the motor, true rear engine. I had a few ideas - one where the driveline runs through the center of the crank (ha!) and one where the driveline runs down past one side of the motor, but the one I seem to settle on has the driveline run over the top of the block, between the heads and between the intake manifolds. Anyone got any technical input on this?

how about mounting the engine transversely? then have a layout like an evo lancer. just a thought. or look at some of the super deltas' layout. think they have something like what you have in mind.

mad project! willimo you're at it again, after the i hate model thread. hehe! as for the next nsx, honda axed it and they have no plans to make a second gen s2k either. from what i read and heard from some other enthusiasts.

Ouch:thumbsdow

I see more Willim:sunglasse C:sunglasse:sunglasselness on the horizon!!!

I feel like I've been working very hard on it, so I wanted to post progress. Joke's on me, I've not really done anything!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII02.jpg

I've built more firewall, it will have to be shaped to match the kit portion (upper) and the hole for the transaxle will have to opened more to fit the furthest forward bit of the gearbox (white bit on the front of the engine.) Also, the bottom rails of the "composite tube frame" are added to the bottom of the firewall. There will be a lot more to this, some subframe assembly, as well as a tube unit that will surround the transmission at the rearmost extent of the existing frame, as well as some uper framing to which I will attach the majority of the suspension gear. I almost have a plan (on the paper) but I'm still playing this by ear mostly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII03.jpg

Here is the motor nestled in about where it will be. I've sanded the putty and plastic disaster that was the seam between Fujimi and Tamiya parts. I am thinking about putting some MR-2 type scoops on the sides, right where the white peice of plastic is between the white NSX and the yellow Modena part. Yay or nay? And where could I source it to cut out some scratch work?

Comments and suggestions encouraged. Especially of the technical variety.

-A word on the motor. The crank is high in the block, and the driveshaft goes through the bottom of the block, above the oil pan, and out the front of the motor. Some clever engineering there, but Honda did it. I'm only building the model!

Well you 're gonna have a hard time replicating that thing honda just made.
Atleast you re doing a very good job on it,
as for the scoops, a big YAY, it needs something there, otherwise it might just look a bit blunt.

Oh yeah, and good luck weaving all the engine components together.

Oli :loser:

Not really sure, I've got to do some research. I would look at Porsche layouts, but they seem to put their trannies ahead of the motor, true rear engine. I had a few ideas - one where the driveline runs through the center of the crank (ha!) and one where the driveline runs down past one side of the motor, but the one I seem to settle on has the driveline run over the top of the block, between the heads and between the intake manifolds. Anyone got any technical input on this?

y dont u turn the engine around so the tranny is facing the front. the only problem is, u will have to settle for and engine thats placed farther back.

Hey,

This is a lamborghini gallardo diagram. They have the engine mounted longitudely, and the trans is in the rear....so odd. http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0310_lamb_illo_l.jpg Funky....Good luck. But yea, why not just turn it all around and have the engine facing backwards? Isn't there some old supercar that had its whole drivetrain reversed-somewhat? Good luck man. Looks really interesting.

Frank X.

I will be watching this.

And you.

Like a hawk.

:tongue:

Awesome Will, I really love it. What are your plans for the hatchback area that covers the motor? Glass, or scoopy stuff (like the McLarenF1 for example)?

Did a little more rear end and suspension work.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII04.jpg

Engine cradle and stuff.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII05.jpg

Engine in its cradle, and suspension knuckles in place. See how it works?

Comments enouraged, especially stuff like "that won't work because." I'd like to catch any technical problems before I move on any more.

Looks good I'd say. Where'd the control arms come from? They dont look like your normal scratchbuilt quality. (EDIT: I meant that your scratchbuilt stuff is better)

Also, from a technical stand point, that wont work because its built out of styrene. While light, its not strong, and easily melts.

Interesting project, looking forward to updates. :smile:

Also, from a technical stand point, that wont work because its built out of styrene. While light, its not strong, and easily melts.

:lol: Loser, LMAO!

A big yay for the scoops from me also. Would make it look a bit like the Ferrari F355/348 style. Very cool. I have no comments as to what will work or not...I've never really done projects that require that much thinking:lol: Keep it up!

lets see more pics of the car.i cant decide if i like that hatch or not.

I have a technical dilema.

I'm pretty much decided on AWD for this Honda. Now, the technical question follows as such:

Scenario 1. The V8 is stolen from their (presumed) future motors that will be offered in the Ridgeline, and the SH-AWD is stolen from the current RL. That's the current plan. Very high tech, but with pretty common components.

Scenario B. Alternatively, I could have the car run electronic assist. The V8 powering the car, and generating energy for a traction motor to be nestled into each wheel. Honda has already demonstrated this technology in some concept cars, but the drawback is 1. huge expense to the consumer and 2. incredible sprung weight. This is the plan that Jay is lobbying for, and I find it intriguing to an extent. The huge weight at the end of the suspension arms is a huge turn off, though. Turn ons include red hair, interest in literature....

Scenario III. This third plan is another electronic assist, this plan would place the electric traction motor into the driveline, so that it could apply its torque to all four wheels through the electronic SH-AWD driveline. This would solve the sprung weight issue, would be slighly cheaper, but I am an at utter loss at how I would replicate this in scale. The car is already pretty convincingly balanced for scenario #1, and I wouldn't have anywhere to put the supplemental electric motor unless I put in in the front of the car - and how would that bode with a 3 differential driveline? However, all Honda hybrids already use this sort of layout - the electric motor directly acting on the driveline to distribute the extra torque and power.

Electric assist is very Honda style: high tech, efficient if you use the regenerative braking.... and this could take my planned 450hp gasoline V8 to an easy 500+hp gasoline/electric hybrid driveline. Oh, the trouble of having an imagination, and a lot of respect and faith in a motor company. What a tangled web I weave! Input, please! I would love to hear what you all have to say on the matter.

Oh yeah, and:

y dont u turn the engine around so the tranny is facing the front. the only problem is, u will have to settle for and engine thats placed farther back.

But yea, why not just turn it all around and have the engine facing backwards? Isn't there some old supercar that had its whole drivetrain reversed-somewhat?

Weight distribution. No way am I putting that heavy motor behind the rear wheels. As low and close to center as possible! Anyone have any idea how the NSX has perfect 50/50 weight distribution and the S2000 is 51/49? Central location of the motor! Honda is very clever about that, and I am not going to buck the trend.

Great concept, cant wait to see how this turns out, with the sort of prep work and research being carried out this is going to be one of the most followed threads here in 2005. Looking at this is getting me geed up to start building again, unfortunately time is a real problem, good luck!

If you go with Scenario III, and putting extra mechanism as close to the center as possible is of high priority, it seems to me that you can borrow more heavily from the dead space between the back of the cabin and the firewall you've constructed.

The current NSX has the firewall there as part of the unibody, which you've already bastardized extensively, so a few more structure changes seem quite logical.

Then to save weight, but still offer ample protection that would have been provided by the firewall, you can use a combination of kevlar composite and this stuff: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/tech/aerogel.html A nice little sandwich of c/kevlar and aerogel would fit the bill nicely, don't you think?

:2cents:

And as far as "huge expense to the consumer," when was the NSX ever cheap? ;)

Did some work. Problem with projects like this is I feel like I do a ton of work and there's nothing to show for it. Ah well.

Made weight holes in the upper crossmember above the tranny, and added the coilovers. The rear end is pretty much done, now it's all after paint detail like remote reservoirs and the swaybar and such. The engine still needs intake manifolds and headers and other tons of work, but I want to paint and assemble the chassis first.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII09.jpg

Cut up the chassis up front, too, and took a subframe from the S2000 and stuck it in there. Way better looking detail than the Fujimi chassis so far, and after modifying the S2000 upper control arms, the S2000 steering rod and the steering knuckles from the JACCS Accord I got it to have poseable front steering (that's for you, Oli).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII10.jpg

Cast in resin the radiator from a JGTC NSX, and the differential and halfshalfs from a Supra, and plopped them on in.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII08.jpg

With the body on, and with the hoods up. The Ferrari part came with a hinge (Yay!) so I will have hinge the front hood (Boo!). Brake master cylinder from a Willys Gasser, radiator fan from 300Z, Battery cast from the Supra, and the throttle boddies will be made from the carburators out of the Lotus 7 kit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII06.jpg

Gotta say your work top notch, great concept and the rear hatch is just mind blowing, defenitily keeping an eye on this one.

If you go with Scenario III, and putting extra mechanism as close to the center as possible is of high priority, it seems to me that you can borrow more heavily from the dead space between the back of the cabin and the firewall you've constructed.

The current NSX has the firewall there as part of the unibody, which you've already bastardized extensively, so a few more structure changes seem quite logical.


Ok, but then where is the fuel tank ? I gues that engine would need a 80 L tank, and that takes space. :evillol:

Seriously, i love what you make will. While you speak of "it won't work" points, the suspentions look ....strange, with the mountings on the upper arms. You'd better add oil tanks for the coilovers !

That whas the engineer's thought of the day :icon16:

You have mad skills man!
I can't wait to see this machine finished. Keep up the awsome work.

You have mad skills man!
I can't wait to see this machine finished. Keep up the awsome work.

:iagree: That thing is coming out sweet! I love all the stuff your doing to it!

Good god dude I love this thing, keep it rollin...

I'll be watching this!!

Great work so far :)

lovely, simply lovely!

You did it, four wheel drive pal !

also, I m becoming more and more interested in this thread, such cool modifications !

Oli

errr.....
not sure about that rear suspension set-up.
the nsx has really lovely wishbones and it seems a shame to not have them on your car as well, even though i'm aware it would probably mean a hell of a lot more work....

and just how big is that engine?
there seems to be quite a bit of room in there for the pistons.

finally.... couldn't you have placed the gearbox on the front (with the diff) like in a ferrari 365 gt/4 (in reverse) to keep front/rear even?
or even have the gearbox right under the gear shift lever lambo style?

or.... maybe i'll shut up now....

eck, things like this gets my brain thinking things it doesn't understand properly.

The motor is a V-8, its fairly large because the valve gear is under the cover and under a shroud on the front of the motor (so no exposed belts) and because the high end Vtec takes a bit of room and also because I'm running the driveshaft through the bottom of the motor. It's the right size.

I dig my suspension, I think it's fine, it robs a few racecars of their suspension geometry. I do agree that I probably shouldn't mess with what Honda has already done well, though. But, since I'm pretty much destroying this thing anyway.... what the hell?

And the drivetrain layout - d'oh! That would have been perfect! To have the gearbox run forward of the motor, and just a diff aft of it, and then the one all the way forward - ARGH! That would have been great for weight disitribution! Frustration is me, because it's too late now.

Thanks for the crits - its nice to see someone is really paying attention.

your work is amazing willimo! i think im gonna crap my pants when its finished

That NSX looks amazing, your skills are great! Keep up the good work.

Incredible job Willimo :eek: Can't wait to see it with a coat of primer.

oh my god willimo is there anything you cant do!? :)

Damn, great work so far.

Incredible! Keep it up!

willmo thats looking good man, I really like your approach of wanting to make it techically accurate. I am not as afraid to try my hand at scratching up the inboard mount shocks and suspension for my ala kart track roadster project after seeing what you are doing here...what kit are you using for the rear links? Looking forward to more updates..its looking awesome

Gray

coming along nicely. :sunglasse

I'm going t have to do some serious modification to the rear chassis, after talking to a couple AFers last night about the defiiciencies in the design. So, in the mean time, I've done some work on the body so I can have a change of pace, plus, I need to get it done sooner since I will need paint and polish. It can dry while I do the rest of the car.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII11.jpg
The scoops (blue) are actually off of a Snap-Tite F-18 fighter. Thanks HobbLobb half off week!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII12.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/NSXII13.jpg

That's only the second primer shot after putty and sanding. I'm pleased! Now I need to build the diffuser, and some mods to the front end. I was thinking about opening the side vents a little more, but after putting the ears on, I will leave them alone.

I like it. Very unique, and creative. Great work!

looking quite mean, and I like the looks of those inlets on it.
Now shot with primer it gives it a more finished look, and hey Honda, build this shit!

Oli

That looks sweet! keep it up!

loks badass, i should do a big diffuser in the back

:eek: its incredible!

Wow! Awesome stuff! :sunglasse What are you gonna do with the wheels, white or Alclad?

loks badass, i should do a big diffuser in the back

You should! It would save me some trouble.

hmm...... not sure about them scoops myself.
the lines seem to jar a abit with the curve leading up to the rear wing.
y'know, opposing curves and all that.