Help Please!
Robbie1
01-29-2005, 12:18 PM
First things first, I own a 1998 Sunfire GT 2.4L 5spd.(loaded except sunroof)
Here is the thing.
I had my water pump replaced and here is whats happening.
Apparently my car had to be boosted 2 times at the garage it was at.
I got it back and it was acting up, hesitating and no power.
Around approx 3000 rpm the car would just about die, like I hit the speed govenor or was lagging in a higher gear. When the car revs up I have a niose like when you put a piece of cardboard into a spoked wheel of a bike. The higher the revs, the louder the noise, and the problem starts. Before I took my car in, that noise wasn't there.
Took it back to the garage and they said they had to fight with my timing chain tensioner to get it back in.
The changed the fuel filter sighting a fuel problem. That wasn't it. Had the system pressure tested and its perfect.
During the whole time the car acted up, it never blew any codes.
Took it back to the garage and they sent it to another garage and they tested the fuel system pressure, tested the computer..no codes.
They blamed the problem on a faulty crank sensor relearn. They said they had to boost my car as well. They changed the battery and relearned the crank sensor. $300 cdn for them and down the road I go.
Not even 100 yards later the car starts acting up again and there is a very noticable lack of power. Still the same noise, and I can't even get my car to do 120kph!
I snap and loose it, go back to garage, two weeks without the car and he gets an ear full and the keys fired at his head. Tells me he road tested the car and it was fine. He then tells me that the sensor may be shot.
Any ideas? Really looking for help. I have a very good understanding of my car and feel that when the first garage had to boost my car the FUBARED my computer.
Here is the thing.
I had my water pump replaced and here is whats happening.
Apparently my car had to be boosted 2 times at the garage it was at.
I got it back and it was acting up, hesitating and no power.
Around approx 3000 rpm the car would just about die, like I hit the speed govenor or was lagging in a higher gear. When the car revs up I have a niose like when you put a piece of cardboard into a spoked wheel of a bike. The higher the revs, the louder the noise, and the problem starts. Before I took my car in, that noise wasn't there.
Took it back to the garage and they said they had to fight with my timing chain tensioner to get it back in.
The changed the fuel filter sighting a fuel problem. That wasn't it. Had the system pressure tested and its perfect.
During the whole time the car acted up, it never blew any codes.
Took it back to the garage and they sent it to another garage and they tested the fuel system pressure, tested the computer..no codes.
They blamed the problem on a faulty crank sensor relearn. They said they had to boost my car as well. They changed the battery and relearned the crank sensor. $300 cdn for them and down the road I go.
Not even 100 yards later the car starts acting up again and there is a very noticable lack of power. Still the same noise, and I can't even get my car to do 120kph!
I snap and loose it, go back to garage, two weeks without the car and he gets an ear full and the keys fired at his head. Tells me he road tested the car and it was fine. He then tells me that the sensor may be shot.
Any ideas? Really looking for help. I have a very good understanding of my car and feel that when the first garage had to boost my car the FUBARED my computer.
noshun
01-31-2005, 12:23 AM
First things first, I own a 1998 Sunfire GT 2.4L 5spd.(loaded except sunroof)
Here is the thing.
I had my water pump replaced and here is whats happening.
Apparently my car had to be boosted 2 times at the garage it was at.
I got it back and it was acting up, hesitating and no power.
Around approx 3000 rpm the car would just about die, like I hit the speed govenor or was lagging in a higher gear. When the car revs up I have a niose like when you put a piece of cardboard into a spoked wheel of a bike. The higher the revs, the louder the noise, and the problem starts. Before I took my car in, that noise wasn't there.
Took it back to the garage and they said they had to fight with my timing chain tensioner to get it back in.
The changed the fuel filter sighting a fuel problem. That wasn't it. Had the system pressure tested and its perfect.
During the whole time the car acted up, it never blew any codes.
Took it back to the garage and they sent it to another garage and they tested the fuel system pressure, tested the computer..no codes.
They blamed the problem on a faulty crank sensor relearn. They said they had to boost my car as well. They changed the battery and relearned the crank sensor. $300 cdn for them and down the road I go.
Not even 100 yards later the car starts acting up again and there is a very noticable lack of power. Still the same noise, and I can't even get my car to do 120kph!
I snap and loose it, go back to garage, two weeks without the car and he gets an ear full and the keys fired at his head. Tells me he road tested the car and it was fine. He then tells me that the sensor may be shot.
Any ideas? Really looking for help. I have a very good understanding of my car and feel that when the first garage had to boost my car the FUBARED my computer.
I would say the screwed the Cam timing up when the were having trouble getting the tensioner sorted. This would account for a power issue as the valve will be opening and closing at the wrong points, meaning that you wont be gettin full compression and full vaccuum for induction (if both cams are off). This noise could be a piston tapping a valve! If this is the case than they could have royally F**ked your motor! It's possible they have f**ked you PCM too! Sounds like a good shop!
Here is the thing.
I had my water pump replaced and here is whats happening.
Apparently my car had to be boosted 2 times at the garage it was at.
I got it back and it was acting up, hesitating and no power.
Around approx 3000 rpm the car would just about die, like I hit the speed govenor or was lagging in a higher gear. When the car revs up I have a niose like when you put a piece of cardboard into a spoked wheel of a bike. The higher the revs, the louder the noise, and the problem starts. Before I took my car in, that noise wasn't there.
Took it back to the garage and they said they had to fight with my timing chain tensioner to get it back in.
The changed the fuel filter sighting a fuel problem. That wasn't it. Had the system pressure tested and its perfect.
During the whole time the car acted up, it never blew any codes.
Took it back to the garage and they sent it to another garage and they tested the fuel system pressure, tested the computer..no codes.
They blamed the problem on a faulty crank sensor relearn. They said they had to boost my car as well. They changed the battery and relearned the crank sensor. $300 cdn for them and down the road I go.
Not even 100 yards later the car starts acting up again and there is a very noticable lack of power. Still the same noise, and I can't even get my car to do 120kph!
I snap and loose it, go back to garage, two weeks without the car and he gets an ear full and the keys fired at his head. Tells me he road tested the car and it was fine. He then tells me that the sensor may be shot.
Any ideas? Really looking for help. I have a very good understanding of my car and feel that when the first garage had to boost my car the FUBARED my computer.
I would say the screwed the Cam timing up when the were having trouble getting the tensioner sorted. This would account for a power issue as the valve will be opening and closing at the wrong points, meaning that you wont be gettin full compression and full vaccuum for induction (if both cams are off). This noise could be a piston tapping a valve! If this is the case than they could have royally F**ked your motor! It's possible they have f**ked you PCM too! Sounds like a good shop!
Robbie1
01-31-2005, 10:11 AM
I haven't drove the car at all. I figured that the timing is out. The thing is that they have checked and rechecked the timing and they say its fine. I should hear from the garage today and they will tell me the problem. If they can't fix it, its going to the dealership.
I thought about the problem some more over the weekend, and I'm wondering if they missed a cog on the chain. The thing I can't figure out is that the computer dosen't blow codes and the CPS will not retain the relearn.
I thought about the problem some more over the weekend, and I'm wondering if they missed a cog on the chain. The thing I can't figure out is that the computer dosen't blow codes and the CPS will not retain the relearn.
Austin8214
02-07-2005, 01:35 PM
one tooth on a timing belt will make a big deal for sure. I had a simalar trouble in a neon a while back. All the relearn does is tells the coil pack when to fire off of the crank sensor. so if the cam is a tooth off then you have a prolbem.
noshun
02-07-2005, 02:59 PM
I haven't drove the car at all. I figured that the timing is out. The thing is that they have checked and rechecked the timing and they say its fine. I should hear from the garage today and they will tell me the problem. If they can't fix it, its going to the dealership.
I thought about the problem some more over the weekend, and I'm wondering if they missed a cog on the chain. The thing I can't figure out is that the computer dosen't blow codes and the CPS will not retain the relearn.
It has four COGs, you couln't miss any as the chain would be too long. The guides could be worn and the tensioner could be dead. (this is like a metal plate that is spring loaded and just pushes onto a curved piece of metal that the chain runs accross the surface of (guide) They may be checking the ignition timing but may not be checking the cam timing. It's not hard to do right as you line the crank pulley up with the mark on the block with the keyway pointing up and then lock the cams in place with pins or 8mm bolts. You have to get into this area to change the water pump due to it's GREAT location! I would say that they did something wrong in there while reassembling it if they didn't just plain damage something! What is you mileage? It may need new timing chain and guides anyhow!
I thought about the problem some more over the weekend, and I'm wondering if they missed a cog on the chain. The thing I can't figure out is that the computer dosen't blow codes and the CPS will not retain the relearn.
It has four COGs, you couln't miss any as the chain would be too long. The guides could be worn and the tensioner could be dead. (this is like a metal plate that is spring loaded and just pushes onto a curved piece of metal that the chain runs accross the surface of (guide) They may be checking the ignition timing but may not be checking the cam timing. It's not hard to do right as you line the crank pulley up with the mark on the block with the keyway pointing up and then lock the cams in place with pins or 8mm bolts. You have to get into this area to change the water pump due to it's GREAT location! I would say that they did something wrong in there while reassembling it if they didn't just plain damage something! What is you mileage? It may need new timing chain and guides anyhow!
4dr92cavi4cyl
02-07-2005, 03:25 PM
If the timing chain was not installed correctly then that sound you're hearing is probably the cylinder hitting the valve, like noshun said. If this is the case it could have damaged the valves or MORE in the head, depends on how loud/bad the sound is. I would make that crap ass garage pay for any more repairs since they made it worse, and don't know the difference between valve timing and spark timing. Of course most people refer to both simply as "Timing", but there is a HUGE difference. Was it making this "cardboard in spokes" sound before the water pump was replaced? (No) I'd be raising some hell!
JayDeavor
02-22-2005, 06:00 PM
Robbie1,
I am kinda rattling my head wondering how you made out with this one... all in all responses that I have read on this case is extremely great advise.. When you replace the timing belt you have to remove the tensioner.. If this back yard mechanic had no idea on how to reinstall your tensioner and forced it into place under the belt tensioner pulley (AKA Timing Guides) then it is very possible that when they were trying to reinstall your tensioner the timing gears moved... To replace the timing belt tensioner you have to take the tensioner over to your bench vise and clamp the ends in the vise with the top and bottom.. On the top end of the tensioner will be a little plunger type rod that stick the end of the tensioner... This must be pressed back into the tensioner with the vise and the little hole at the top of the tensioner housing you have to insert something small into the hole to hold the tension (EI. paper clip works fine). once that is done you reinstall the tensioner under the pulley and when all your other gears are in line you take a screw driver and lift the tension pulley (AKA Guide) slightly upwards towards your timing belt then you pull out the paper clip and let the tension back on the belt..
If the back yard mechanic did not do that then he took a risk of one of the gears moving there for having your timing belt 1 tooth off....
I am really wondering how you made out with this one... Willing to share with us?
I am kinda rattling my head wondering how you made out with this one... all in all responses that I have read on this case is extremely great advise.. When you replace the timing belt you have to remove the tensioner.. If this back yard mechanic had no idea on how to reinstall your tensioner and forced it into place under the belt tensioner pulley (AKA Timing Guides) then it is very possible that when they were trying to reinstall your tensioner the timing gears moved... To replace the timing belt tensioner you have to take the tensioner over to your bench vise and clamp the ends in the vise with the top and bottom.. On the top end of the tensioner will be a little plunger type rod that stick the end of the tensioner... This must be pressed back into the tensioner with the vise and the little hole at the top of the tensioner housing you have to insert something small into the hole to hold the tension (EI. paper clip works fine). once that is done you reinstall the tensioner under the pulley and when all your other gears are in line you take a screw driver and lift the tension pulley (AKA Guide) slightly upwards towards your timing belt then you pull out the paper clip and let the tension back on the belt..
If the back yard mechanic did not do that then he took a risk of one of the gears moving there for having your timing belt 1 tooth off....
I am really wondering how you made out with this one... Willing to share with us?
Robbie1
02-22-2005, 08:06 PM
Took the car to the dealership. They realigned the gears ect. and things are a OK.
The mechanic that worked on my car was a shop foreman and had no experience "turning wrenches".
Never bothered to tell me this though. i have delt with the same garage for 5yrs, and the original mechanic quit.
After springing my car from the dealership, I went back to the garage and told the guy he owed me $677.33 (the dealership price to fix my car).
He said he shouldn't have done the car in the first place. Told him he did and thats not my problem. long and short of the deal, I got half the money and told the guy to find a hat and go f**k it.
I'm a purchaser at a major oilfield company and he pissed me off. Soon his buisness will be gone.
The guy had the balls to blame me for the work he had to turn away while he was "fixing" my car.
Found a new garage and they are awsome.
The mechanic that worked on my car was a shop foreman and had no experience "turning wrenches".
Never bothered to tell me this though. i have delt with the same garage for 5yrs, and the original mechanic quit.
After springing my car from the dealership, I went back to the garage and told the guy he owed me $677.33 (the dealership price to fix my car).
He said he shouldn't have done the car in the first place. Told him he did and thats not my problem. long and short of the deal, I got half the money and told the guy to find a hat and go f**k it.
I'm a purchaser at a major oilfield company and he pissed me off. Soon his buisness will be gone.
The guy had the balls to blame me for the work he had to turn away while he was "fixing" my car.
Found a new garage and they are awsome.
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