Newbie saying hello with a comment

Hello everybody! I am a very proud owner of a Buick Riviera Gran Sport. I have owned this car most of my life. Actually, I stumbled on the musclecars.com website after reading about it on another forum.

The last thing I would want to do while making my first post here is to start a fight, :evillol: but if I let this one slide I would be compromising everything I stand for where common sense and freedom of expression is concerned. I have entered a few discussions where the "what makes it a musclecar" topic has come up. People who consider themselves qualified to create the guidelines of this classification often don't know all the facts about the cars they are considering. I have read mistakes in so called "musclecar" books where the Riviera is concerned, and often times the featured car is not even completely correct. Some of the authors go as far as using the term "granD sportS".....I hate that! It's GRAN SPORT. :banghead:

First off, I do not mean to offend the person or persons who compiled your list of "musclecars" on your musclecar.com home page, BUT where the Riviera is concerned, you fail to even mention that Buick made a Gran Sport Riviera model. The fact that you can classify a full size Impala SS as a musclecar and not a Riviera GS is beyond my comprehension.

Let me start with some trivia: To the best of my knowlege, the first GS Riviera was made available in 1965, and the GRAN SPORT option included dual 4 barrel carburetion (360 HP and 465 ft lbs of torque is nothing to sneeze at), positraction (with a few different gear ratios available) 3:42 was standard in '66 and '67 on the Riv GS, quick ratio steering, stiffer suspension, GS ornamentation and whatever other option you wanted INCLUDING AIR CONDITIONING. I don't know of very many musclecars that could compete with the rest WITH THE A/C ON! Also, Pontiac and Chevy never even offered an automatic transmission with the dual speed torque converter that these cars have as standard equipment.

For that matter, the '70 RIV GS came with the stage 1 engine, 510 FT Lbs. of torque and very under rated at 370 HP. Many non-GS models even came with stage 1 heads from the factory for reasons unknown!

If that doesn't make a Musclecar but a full sized Impala does, then something is really wrong here.

Before I write a book, please let me point out one more fact.....the '65 Riv GS is not any bigger than a '65 GTO and weighs in nearly the same as a fully optioned GTO.

I parked my '67 Riv GS next to a '67 GTO and mine is only about 6" longer and weighs in at 4,400 LBS. I don't know what the GTO weighs, can't be much less, but I'd hardly consider a 4,400 lb car of that era a "boat" as people who don't even know a pre-'79 Riv is rear wheel drive! What's that Impala weigh anyway? I'll bet it's at least as much, but you call that a musclecar......because it's not a Buick.

I have some Popular Hot Rodding and car and Driver musclecar tests that I am willing to share here that clearly show the performance of these fine cars on their road tests and frankly 15 or 16 second 1/4 mile times on stock cars from that era with bias ply tires ain't too shabby for a luxury car affectionately called "THE BANKER'S HOT ROD". It really does go fast with class, those of us who own one know.

If someone can supply me with an email that I could send my scanned literature to be posted I will gladly send it so you can add the Riv GS to your list. The Riviera GS is a musclecar that truly deserves to be on it, and those of us who own one should all agree. Just my :2cents:

Just happened to run across BuickGS's comment. I also reviewed the parameter of the so called definition of a muscle car. I have been in the hobby for many years and have found that so called "experts" who attempt to define a Muscle Car, are only that..........self proclaimed and they tend to place their bias towards what they like and what they dislike. A big Block Buick GS with the big motor and dual quads from the factory definitely is a Musclecar. On the same token the 70 Plymouth Fury with the 440 6-pack option certainly is as well. That Fury was even marketed as a Muscle car as part of the Rapid Transit system in 1970. The arguement could go on endlessly.............
I myself have been the promotor of several car shows. One of the problems I ALWAYS have is with Muscle car owners with clearly defined and recognized muscle cars attempting to put there cars in classes other than the classes I set out for Muscle cars. Like a guy with a Chevelle SS wants to go in the stock production class instead of the Muscle car class because he sees a Hemi Cuda sitting over there. He would rather compete against the 4-door cars and the cars with smaller engines than others in his real class..............
One comment against this site.............
When I tried to register, you had to put in what kind of car you had.
year, make, model
well year and make was no problem, but my models were not listed in the drop down file............Coronet, Valiant. Ended up using my Dodge Ram as my profile car..............
Someone needs to make an "adjustment"

swi66

First off the Buick Riviera Gran Sport is a muscle Car. Buicks seldom get the respect they deserve, but you should be used to that. I feel your pain and can understand your frustration people are ignorant or uneducated. I get the same feeling when people say is that your Monte Carlo SS, or take out the turbo V6 and put a 350 in it!
Fast with class is what Buick Muscle is all about