New Sway Bars installed!

hey guys, just wanted to let you know i got some sway bars for Christmas, the Addco front & rear sway bars off 3sx, and i just finished installing both the other day.

it wasn't too bad, but the only way to get the front bar out and the new front bar in is to take apart the control arm. and alas, that means i need an alignment. but i can also see i have some negative camber too, when i put the tire back on.

and i figured it wouldn't hurt to re-align the rear tires since the rear sway bar fit tighter than the stock bar. so maybe the new bar squeezed the wheels together a bit.

all in all, i'll get the alignment done tomorrow (wed) morning, then i'll take her for a test drive and report back.

there's no better excuse to go weave in and out of traffic!

I know Igovert has front and rear strut bars, but does anyone else here have sway bars on their 3/S? I've heard sway bars are the way to go and provide much greater improvement in performance and rigidity than strut bars do. however, strut bars would nicely and perhaps appropriately compliment upgraded sway bars. any thoughts??? also, i've seen many people that just have a rear strut bar and no front strut bar. any ideas for just one and not the other?
thanks

Nice!!!

also, i've seen many people that just have a rear strut bar and no front strut bar. any ideas for just one and not the other?
thanks
lack of funds maybe??? :lol:


anyways, i think the strut bars on top of your upgraded sway bars would make for a very nice suspension set-up...they could only help even more with stiffening up the chasis, to take those hairpins.

most likely NOT lack of funds. One example is Jeff Lucius...that guy completely decked out his 3/S. i think maybe some people like the rear end to be a bit tighter? i dunno, maybe it helps in autocross, no idea really.

anyways, i WOULD post pics, but its nothing special to look at. I just sorta followed the instructions you can find on 3sxperformance.com . Of course, no one really bothers with how the undercarriage looks. However, these sway bars have a bit of a brass-metal color to them, so a goldish color really stands out on an underside plagued with dirt and just dark everything. i think they look good, but hope they perform even better.

Well you guys probably know more about autocross then me, Ive only been to three so far! :newbie:
I do hear from alot of the older guys there that front strut bars will stiffen up the chasis but the negative effect is it increases understeer. If you think about it technically the front of the car will roll less so it cant pitch into the corner and yeah, udersteer wil be a little more noticeable. with the propper tires and suspension mods you can overcome that and still keep the strut bar but most people just dont have the time to test out the 50 thousand different suspension set ups to see what works. its intersting cause one time this guy brought up the question of why GT cars all have a stiff as hell front end and can corner so good, the response they gave him was "weight". GT cars dont have the extra weight to pull them away as they reach the apex. No matter how much you lighten up a street car once you corner in, forces will always pull you to the outside.

Linebckr, I am very curious to see some pics if its not too much trouble, I'm getting the same swaybars in March. I'm also a freak when it comes to the underbelly of my car. I clean mine twice a month man! I took the control arms apart on my Starion but that is a RWD, I think its gonna be way more work on the FWD! how long did it take you and I'm assuming you had an extra pair of arms to help.

I'm curious also, I'm looking to do sway bars when the snow melts.

Musashi, interesting stuff about the autocrossing. actually, i've never been to an event, but i'd like to go sometime. As for pics, i actually didn't take any. but all the pics you'll need can be found at 3sxperformance.com--> http://www.3sxperformance.com/installs.asp. I did run into a few problems when installing, and i think i'm gonna call up 3sx just to let them know. nothing big, but just a little customer feedback.

Actually i did NOT have an extra pair of arms to help, just did it myself. Tho it would have been nice, its not necessary. It wasn't a difficult install, suprisingly! I actually found it tougher to re-install my stock rear sway bar when i replaced my rear suspension a month ago.

a few notable things:

1) i noticed that the end-link holes in both front and rear sway bars were not quite large enough to allow the end-link bolts to smoothly go through (http://www.3sxperformance.com/installs/swaybar-na-rear/image13.html). and so, it was obviously necessary for me to enlarge the holes slightly. The stock measure 3/8", but to increase the hole to 1/2" would have been too large. So i took a drill with a 3/8" drill bit and "bored" out the hole to make it just slightly larger than 3/8". i just bored out the hole until the end-link bolt fit thru the hole smoothly.

2) when installing the brackets for the rear bar, you must use the mounting plates. i quickly and carelessly read thru the directions for the rear bar, then discovered that i installed the bracket incorrectly. i didn't see how to use the mounting plate, but after a little thinking, i figured it out. as you can see in this pic http://www.3sxperformance.com/installs/swaybar-na-rear/image16.html on the mounting plate on the far left there is a circular hole (compared to oval shaped holes). no bolt goes thru this hole; this hole is there for the bracket to go around the existing stock mounting nut that is welded to the suspension frame. here the mounting plate is being slid up where the stock mounting nut is http://www.3sxperformance.com/installs/swaybar-na-rear/image18.html, and here you can see the mounting plate in position http://www.3sxperformance.com/installs/swaybar-na-rear/image19.html. the stock mounting nut extends behind and just above the bushing (hole not visible in the pic) and the circular hole in the mounting plate allows the mounting plate to snuggly position right around this hole, but flush with the suspension frame. [you can't see this, but you can feel the welded nut with your finger].
Here is a final installed pic of the rear bar http://www.3sxperformance.com/installs/swaybar-na-rear/image29.html

3) when installing the front bar, the mounting kit came with 4 mounting plates. However, i did not see any way these mounting plates would go on with the brackets. also, if you look in the pictures and instructions, there is not mounting plate used in the installation: just the new bracket and stock bolts are used here http://www.3sxperformance.com/installs/swaybar-na-front/image36.html and here http://www.3sxperformance.com/installs/swaybar-na-front/image37.html.

ALSO, i had to bore the end-link holes a little bit so the end-link bolts would fit smoothly. If fitment seems a bit rough and the bolt is having a tough time going through, DO NOT hammer the bolt thru for fear of damaging the threads. If you damage the threads and are fortunate enough to have a tap & die set, then count yourself lucky. but if you don't, then you're screwed. so don't hammer the end-link bolts if they won't go smoothly-->rather simply make the hole larger.

4) on the front bar, it is very hard, if not impossible, to get the stock bar out and the new bar in without taking apart the control arm. i tried for about 20 minutes to try to fish it out, knowing that if i suceeded i'd be a badass and i wouldn't have to get an alignment...but i wasn't so lucky. In the caption in this pic http://www.3sxperformance.com/installs/swaybar-na-front/image18.html, they say that "In hindsight, it may be possible to only have to drop the inner part of the lower main control arm, not removing the 2 bolts that hold the hub to the strut." This IS what i did. it is not necessary to remove the 2 bolts holding the hub to the strut. all you have to do is remove the one reamer bolt holding the inner part of the control arm to the frame. so you can just skip to pic 24: http://www.3sxperformance.com/installs/swaybar-na-front/image24.html. Now once you detach this part of the control arm, you'll have to move the control arm out of the way to wiggle the strut bar out and the new bar in. By moving the control arm, the strut moves, which merits a re-alignment. so its unavoidable. but don't worry about it. whenever you mess with the suspension, you should get an alignment.

PHEW!~ a bit long, but those are my thoughts on the installation process. just a few bumps i ran into, but nothing big. just make sure you have a drill and 3/8" bit handy just in case the end-link holes aren't quite big enough. that's the only thing that delayed me a bit. other than that, if you have air tools and a lift, that would greatly speed up the installation. since i had neither, and was working on a semi-rocky surface, i had a fun time properly and safely jacking the car and setting the jack stands. BY THE WAY, a good mounting point for the jack stands are on the ball joint of the front control arm (front sway bar installation). this mount point is perfect as its rounded just like the jack stand.

good luck to all, and its much simpler than i made it sound. just a little mechanical knowledge and/or someone to help who maybe knows what they're doing, and you're golden!

Linebckr, great info, I'm sure alot of people will appreciate it when they finally muster the funds and time to get and install new sway bars.

As far as the setups, I can think of 2 reasons why many recommend sway bars and a rear strut to compliment them...but not so much the front strut bar.

The first was along the lines of what Mushasi said about the understeer...I read a great article a year or so ago that had great comments/theories on different pairings of strut and sway bars, and essentially the basic conclusion was that stiffening up the rear with both was good, but they only did the sway bar in front, because of the excessive understeer. I wish I could find the article, because me attempting to summarize it wont do it justice...however I cannot seem to find it. (I thought it was linked at stealth316, but I can't find it.)

The 2nd reason, although this is a ridiculous reason at best, is because many of the front strut bars create obnoxious clearance issues with the hood and battery. Now anyone who really wanted to get one in there, would manage, but it can be a PITA (but honestly, what mod isn't?)

So anyway, once this thread has run its course and we've gotten some more info and you've had a chance to test them and troubleshoot, etc. Would you feel like writing something about the sway bars for the FAQ...you could even just copy paste the relevant stuff from this thread into one post in the FAQ.

Hey man, thank you so much for all that info, I actually do have some air tools I bought for the other car so It should be fun. Its a great deal you wrote too man, I'm with Igovert, we need this in the FAQ.

now all thats left is the consumer report. how does it handle? :naughty:

most likely NOT lack of funds. One example is Jeff Lucius...that guy completely decked out his 3/S. i think maybe some people like the rear end to be a bit tighter? i dunno, maybe it helps in autocross, no idea really.


yeah i was just joking about lack of funds...it almost has to be a reason specifically pertaining to the 3000gt, i think. everyone i have talked to says that both strut bars make a huge difference on the 300zx and many other cars. my thoughts is that when cornering, a strut bar will help keep the wheels at the same level better, in result leading to your outside tire pressing harder against the ground than without strut bars...with the outside tire pressing harder against the ground it should increase cornering ability.

but for this same exact reason i can see why this could hurt the VR4, because the VR4 might actually benefit from having a little bend in the chasis.

ok this is my theory, when your turning your car wants to stay going straight due to physics. so the 3000gt weighing in at a little more than your average GT car and having AWD, may want to slide forward when more pressure is applied to the outside front wheel. this would cause understeer like someone already said. with the AWD system and weight it could benefit the VR4 to lean on that front tire a bit and have the AWD pull you out of the turn. i think i explained what is going on in my head but sometimes its hard for me to describe what im thinking. :D

well i took her on a quick run, and thru the infamous curve in which i tore up my rear suspension. i didn't push her tho, quickly remembering all the crap i had to do to fix my car from a collision that just took a few seconds. but she feels much tighter in the front and rear. i drove her a bit when i just had the rear sway bar in, and i liked it a lot! then with both bars in, it balanced out, but still very tight. i think i'll definitely add just a rear strut bar to make the rear a bit tighter, and as Igovert and Musashi said, will help with the understeer.

i was thinking about it today, and i just didn't think when ordering my new tires a few months back to increase the tire width. i just stuck with 225mm width (225/60/16s). on the stock 16" rims, how wide of a tire do you think i could put on there? 255 would be nice. Back to sway bars, i'm sure the limits of my car's handling will be met far sooner b/c of the small width of the tires, but b/c my sidewall aspect ratio is 60, that does help some. but i'm happy with my Yokohama Avid V4S tires (v-rated). they'll have to do for now.

its raining today, but when it dries up, i'll take her for another run thru the curves. tho i'm feeling a bit depressed and inadequate :( b/c one of my friends has an 02 WRX modded turbos and suspension and my other friend just slapped a vortech supercharger on his S2000. i need some more power...where's that Ripp Mods supercharger?! na, i'll have to wait for that, as it will run 3-4G's.

alas! for now superior handling will have to be enough...

[Igovert, i wouldn't mind posting in the FAQ when this is all done]

well I'm not sure the width of my rim but I am using 245mm wide (245/45-17), I think they are 17x8 or 17x8.5 not sure.

I bought the 3SX Addco Sway Bars and I was installing the front bar and it seems like it doesn't want to fit so well, especially the endlinks. It just seems that that rop endlink bolt doesn't have enough thread to grab onto and stay, what do you guys think?? Also the brackets seem like they wont exactly line up....Can anybody give me any hints or words of wisdom??

Being that this thread is 18 months old, you wont get much attention. Please either start your own thread, or private message the original thread starter LineBckr49, I'm sure he would be able to give you advice from his experience.