Communism

What a great idea, that would never really work in reality

Any thoughts?

I'll post more once i see some opinions

What a great idea, that would never really work in reality

Works in China and Cuba...

Works in China and Cuba...
Yes thouse are really wonderful examples of success. :rolleyes:

Yes thouse are really wonderful examples of success. :rolleyes:
Its just to show that Democracy isn't the only way of life and that other forms of government can exist.

Cuba's quite nice actually, better than when the corrupt puppet regime that the US had going was running the show.

China is... China. For all the industrialization and modern technology, it's still China. Apples and oranges compared to the west.

Communism is a great concept, and would be wonderful if fully executed. However, human qualities of greed, pride, etc, make it difficult if not impossible to implement. Also, I feel a major downfall of it, and why it's so often mistakenly seen as "evil," is that in virtually every example we've seen of it, violence is used as the method of control. You need to curb people's appetite to have more, more, more, and the easiest way to do that is to lop off the head of anyone that resists...

It's a wonderful concept, but, like Democracy, Socialism, Monarchism, whatever, it's only perfect if followed to the letter, and it never will be, so we must use whatever is the least offensive form.

I agree with Heep.

As for Cuba, if it wasn't for the embargo that the United States has imposed upon it, the country would be much better off and would be the closest example of the communist system that would work. True Castro has imposed numerous human rights violations, but compared to numerous other countries its one of the least.

TS out

I agree with Heep.

As for Cuba, if it wasn't for the embargo that the United States has imposed upon it, the country would be much better off.
Yeah once again it is our fault someone is in shiite. We planted missiles there and aimed them at ourselves. We loved Castro into his position there.

Works in China and Cuba...

Not really... they are communist countries, but that doesnt mean its working out for them

Cbass: I disagree, if Castro didnt take control of Cuba they would be a MUCH more prosperous country right now, with much less poverty. Before Castro overthrew the government, Havana was what Las Vegas is today. The problem is that all the money they were making wasnt going to the people, it was going to the President and the people that controlled Cuba. They were making millions while the people got nothing. I think by now that would have corrected itself and it would have been a succesful capitalist country.

I was born in a communist country (because the Soviet Union forced all of eastern Europe to be Communist)
During communist times EVERYBODY had a job, guarenteed. You just got out of jail, you got a job right away. No matter what. Everybody had a purpose. The problem was there was NOTHING in stores, no choice. I saw pictures of my cousins first communion, all the girls were wearing the same exact dress because that was the ONLY dress in the store, they couldnt buy a different one. You would have to wait in line for 2 HOURS+ just to get a loaf of bread. And you basically had no rights and had to agree with the government or you would be killed.
So the system has its pros and cons

Now that our countries capitalist, its EXTREMELY hard to find a job. People basically do any job they can get, oh you have a degree as an engineer or whatever DOESNT MATTER. There are no jobs. You have to do whatever you can get. And the average pay is about $250 a MONTH. So people are really struggling. Mostly because of the corruption, everything is run by the Mafia they control the government, they control industries and they control the banks, so what can you do. Basically if you want to be rich, you have to have some kind of ties with the mob.

Thats a product of changing from communist to capitalist, i think its going to take a loooooooooong time before the system corrects itself.


If the communist system was followed exactly, then that would be the fairest and best political system by far. But I think its impossible for it to work because of the same things Heep said. Human qualities like greed would prevent everybody from living equally.

Not really... they are communist countries, but that doesnt mean its working out for them.
Why not? They've been a communist country for how long and has there been a civil revolt?
What I'm saying is because they are not a democracy does not mean they are sentenced to death. Sure democracy in North America has made it prosperous, but what makes you so sure it will work on a different group of people?

alot of people mistake communism with totalitarianism. two different things. stop making that mistake, its annoying.

communism is great if it could ever get established in a country with a decent infrastructure. but it hardly ever does, it always gets established in countries that are shaken by war, or are in the process of developing. and when you dont have anything, its hard to give everyone something. one bakery cannot feed a nation.

another problem with communism is that people have a hard time being equal. ive become convinced that competition is a biological trait in human beings. sure, some people can shake it, or pretend to atleast, but when it boils down to it, evolution kicks in and we have to compete to be the best. communism and competition dont work well together.

Why not? They've been a communist country for how long and has there been a civil revolt?
Revolts get squashed...How many have DIED trying to get to America? Yeah Cuba is a GREAT place. (to be FROM)

The problem was there was NOTHING in stores, no choice. I saw pictures of my cousins first communion, all the girls were wearing the same exact dress because that was the ONLY dress in the store, they couldnt buy a different one. You would have to wait in line for 2 HOURS+ just to get a loaf of bread.



That's the way it still is in Cuba. Except the part about unemployment also applies.
Cuba is fucked economically. It was fucked before and it is even more so now after Soviet Union has vacated the premises. Anyone who thinks it's a good example of how communism should work doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. However those who know a bit about Cuba and Cubans would know how very little importance they place on material things, posessions, big houses, cars and all other stuff that are considered a measure of success in western cultures, so they still manage to get by happily (although they would probably be a little happier still if they had stable electricity and a bit more food to eat)
Thats a product of changing from communist to capitalist, i think its going to take a loooooooooong time before the system corrects itself
It will take exactly as long as it takes for the "old school" politicans to diminish and be replaced by new younger ones with a different mindset. In most eastern-bloc countries (Russia as the easiest example) the same people are running things now that were running things a couple of decades ago.

It will take exactly as long as it takes for the "old school" politicans to diminish and be replaced by new younger ones with a different mindset. In most eastern-bloc countries (Russia as the easiest example) the same people are running things now that were running things a couple of decades ago.

Exactly. Witness the recent power struggle in Ukraine. :)

Communism is a joke. The premise that we are all equal is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. We are not all equal. We should be given equal opportunity and equal access, but that is all.

Communism breeds laziness. There is no incentive to perform better. You just have to exist. The shit kickers and the brain surgeons are given equal standing. Now I don't much care if the shit kickers coast along their job, but I'd prefer it if the brain surgeons put in that 'extra effort' to study hard and really know their stuff.

Think about it. How often do you consider the benefits of any activity before you perform it? How many times have you or someone you know, complain about the income adequacies for someone doing the same job as you? Never mind the fact that the guy pushing the broom would be making the same (or getting the same rations) as you the mechanic, army soldier, database administrator, teacher, nurse or whatever.

Communism is little more then locating and then performing at the lowest common denominator. Can someone give me a comprehensive list of the greatest contributions given to mankind under a communist regime? I know that the Chinese brought many but it was not under communism (they've only been that way for sixty years or so).













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Communism is a joke. The premise that we are all equal is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. We are not all equal. We should be given equal opportunity and equal access, but that is all.


True, and that's why it has never been, and never will be, fully implemented successfully.

As far as communism breeding laziness, to a certain extent, it does, and you make very valid points. However, it would not change people like my mother (and there are lots of them), who works full-time at a volunteer position, not to advance in life, but just for something to do. Many people feel the need to succeed for their own gratification, not just for reward. I for one, on the other hand, would strive to be the laziest one around :p

You must also consider that no system is perfect. Capitalism breeds greed, selfishness, and pride, creating poverty, crime, etc. In the end, however, the cons of capitalism are far easier to take for most people than the cons of communism, and that's why most prefer the capitalist system.

You must also consider that no system is perfect.

I'm with you on that.

Capitalism breeds greed, selfishness, and pride, creating poverty, crime, etc. In the end, however, the cons of capitalism are far easier to take for most people than the cons of communism, and that's why most prefer the capitalist system.

I'd only argue one thing with this. The list you made was in what you consider bad things about capitalism. Greed is a good thing. I like the money I earn, but I'm greedy for more. My ability to make more isn't going to adversely affect anyone else. Money is not a zero sum game.













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My ability to make more isn't going to adversely affect anyone else.

Except those who can't compete with you, and end up starving :p

I think we're more or less agreed, however.

Communism worked, with quite a bit of success in East Germany - probably better than it worked in any other country. Had the Soviet Union not collapsed (and pulled all it's satellite governments down with it), it's entirely possible (even probable) that by now, the standard of living in East Germany would equal that of West Germany.
It was a neat experiment, but the country is better off as one, regardless of what form of government they use.

Except those who can't compete with you, and end up starving :p

I think we're more or less agreed, however.

Communism breeds mediocrity. If the laziest bum can have everything the hardest worker has, what incentive is there to excel? If I can sit on my ass and do nothing why shouldn't I do nothing knowing that I will be taken care of no matter what I do.

Everyone has the same chance in life, if they want to excel they will, if they want to lie around they will starve.

As for Cuba, if it wasn't for the embargo that the United States has imposed upon it, the country would be much better off and would be the closest example of the communist system that would work. True Castro has imposed numerous human rights violations, but compared to numerous other countries its one of the least.

TS out

So explain why so many Cubans are fleeing Cuba on anything that floats?

So explain why so many Cubans are fleeing Cuba on anything that floats?
Because Cuba is such a wonderful place to live. :rolleyes:

Lots of logical thought in this thread supporting Cuba.

Why not? They've been a communist country for how long and has there been a civil revolt?
What I'm saying is because they are not a democracy does not mean they are sentenced to death. Sure democracy in North America has made it prosperous, but what makes you so sure it will work on a different group of people?

I can tell you never been near a communist country! I was born in a communist country and any whisper of a revolt is put down quickly with death or prison. I know this for a fact!

The freedom to choose is a great freedom. It allows you to decide how hard you want to try in life. In life you only get out of it what you put into it. As Yogs stated if you want to kick shit for a living you can, want to be Bill gates you have that chance.

So explain why so many Cubans are fleeing Cuba on anything that floats?I thought I did. The embargo. If it wasn't because of it, they would have more goods and money to buy these goods. Americans who have family there are only allowed to send a certain amount of money and goods. Businesses are restricted for selling and or trading. Cuba has the lowest drop out rate and are 95 percent educated people. The US can't even come close. Their medical institutions are known throughout Europe and Asia, but are not recognize here in the states. The schooling is free. Shoot my neices and nephews can't even think of getting into school without having to take out a second mortgage or loan. The healthcare in this country is beyond control. Millions without healthcare, over there everyone is covered. So to me its the embargo that forces them to leave. The US even has the balls to tell other countries not to do business with Cuba. That alone to me is a human rights violation. They are strangling the country into submission. But then again what can you expect from a big bully that is on its way to force the world in doing what it wants to do and if they don't uses force, intimidation, lies and weapons of mass destruction. And we had the nerve to call the USSR the evil empire.

What I find so disturbing is the fact that obviously the embargo has not forced Fidel into retirement, it is only hurting the people. All because the USA has a vandetta over Fidel kicking out the rich fat pork that was strangling the country before his rise in power. Much of which was helped by the US. yet we still deal with China, North Korea and numerous other countries that do possess weapons of mass destruction and do pose a threat to world security and yet we are teating them like good ole neighbors. Well this isn't State Farm.

The US needs to get a grip and stop meddling in affairs with other countries and start taken care of its own house. Once it is in order then and only then can it truly tell others what to do and prove that their way is best.

The words spoken by Heep in this thread (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=160025) sum up my feelings. So true and so well written.

TS out

What a great idea, that would never really work in reality

Any thoughts?

I'll post more once i see some opinions


It's better than Nazism, think about it.

That's the way it still is in Cuba. Except the part about unemployment also applies.
Cuba is fucked economically. It was fucked before and it is even more so now after Soviet Union has vacated the premises. Anyone who thinks it's a good example of how communism should work doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. However those who know a bit about Cuba and Cubans would know how very little importance they place on material things, posessions, big houses, cars and all other stuff that are considered a measure of success in western cultures, so they still manage to get by happily (although they would probably be a little happier still if they had stable electricity and a bit more food to eat)


It will take exactly as long as it takes for the "old school" politicans to diminish and be replaced by new younger ones with a different mindset. In most eastern-bloc countries (Russia as the easiest example) the same people are running things now that were running things a couple of decades ago.

Both very good points... thats the reality

I can tell you never been near a communist country! I was born in a communist country and any whisper of a revolt is put down quickly with death or prison. I know this for a fact!

exactly what my response was going to be. btw what country are you from?


Yogs: What you say is true, but it doesnt breed laziness as much as you think. When you grow up in a Communist society its completely different than growing up in a capitalist society. You're thinking of it how you grew up in America and then just choosing being a janitor because you're lazy and you get paid as much as a doctor. It's not like that, or else everybody would be janitors. In communist societies they stream you into different things while you're young, kids who are smart and good at science for example would be streamed into programs like Medecine. And from a young age, they're learning about medicine and being a doctor, thats what the government grooms them to be. Kids that they see in elementary school that are good with their hands and building things would be streamed into technical schools, where they would be mechanics or something of that sort. While the dumb kids would end up being janitors. Communist systems dont just allow people to pick whatever job they want to do, they analyze the kids at a young age to see what they're good at and then they go to schools that groom their skills.

Here you pick jobs more on the rewards you get, like big salaries for doctors. In communist countries its more who has the passion to do what, if from a young age you wanted to be a doctor, thats probably what you'd end up doing unless your skills werent suited to be a doctor.


I think the system would work better if there were like 3 different levels of earnings. Like Doctors, Lawyers get paid more than Engineers, Architects get paid more than Janitors. That would work somewhat better, because people that had to learn more and have more responsibilities with their jobs would earn a little more than people that didnt learn anything and just went straight to their janitorial duties after basic school.

Just because people are considered more or less equal doesnt mean everybody is going to just "exist" and just do what they have to do if they're a brain surgeon. They're bread from a young age to do that job, and usually have a passion for it. They're not just going to operate on your brain half-assed to "get by." They would be punished for something like that.

And contributions by communist regimes, ofcourse there was... what about the space program? Russia was FAR ahead of America with their space program, the problem was that Russia was a very poor country so they didnt have all the resources america had. So you cant say that Communist regimes didnt make any contributions to mankind, they had their scientists working on break throughs the same way the capitalist countries did. People that invent things, make innovations or want to contribute things to man kind dont do it for the monetary value or reward, they do it because they have a passion to create something, to change the world. What difference does it make if they were born in a Communist or Capitalist country?

Gotti (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=237210)



I am a Czech by birth and American by choice.

In Communism the government controls everything. That reason right there is enough to hate the whole idea. I don't want the government knowing, getting involved, guiding, or controling my life at all. The government doesn't need to be in my life and that's finale.

Also, in Communism everybody is "equal" and everybody gets a job. This may sound like a good idea but I'm with the people who said the lazy bum gets as much as the hard worker. I know in China they're starting to change that and give the hard workers "bonuses." I think I'll agree with the quote the founder of GE said at the turn of the century. Survival of the fittest.
If you work your butt off you should be able to own your own company and be really rich because you earned it. Do you think you'll get to own a major corporation in Communism? Would Bill Gates be where he is today if he grew up in a Communist country?

I had a debate with a few friends though and they all agreed that in the end Communism would probably be the best form of government. The problem is it needs so much working on that nobody will ever perfect it and it'll be looked down upon.

Also, in Communism everybody is "equal" and everybody gets a job. This may sound like a good idea but I'm with the people who said the lazy bum gets as much as the hard worker. I know in China they're starting to change that and give the hard workers "bonuses." I think I'll agree with the quote the founder of GE said at the turn of the century. Survival of the fittest. Strange how that also sounds like a union. :eek:

I had a debate with a few friends though and they all agreed that in the end Communism would probably be the best form of government. The problem is it needs so much working on that nobody will ever perfect it and it'll be looked down upon.They wouldn't be Star Trek fanatics would they? Cause someone once told me that the system in the Star Trek system is basically communism. :p

As for the government controling everything. hmmm It sure seems like its getting close to it already with all these laws (Patriot Act I & II) and others coming down the pipeline.

Big Brother (Bush) is watching you. :eek:

TS out (beaming out of this place)

Strange how that also sounds like a union. :eek:
Yes...Unions tend to about as communist as they can be. The NEA (National Education Association) is the most left-leaning disaster ever foisted on any educational system anywhere.
Admittedly this is from a pretty extreme right-wing nut-house, but it is factual. Click here. (http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/2004/aug04/NEA-resolutions.html)

Yes...Unions tend to about as communist as they can be.

Bit of a generalisation there, but it tends to work for public servants' unions.Politicians will always find money for mediocrity, because it can't be imported

Private sector unions tend to be tempered with the reality that if you actually make a product,that product can probably be made by Asians who live in tin huts with dirt floors and no running water,and work without any protective equipment or safety standards for long hours and joke wages.

Why,you might ask would people live in such conditions?
Simple...they are forbidden from forming unions,and their employers can get away witth it.

Admittedly, my experience with unions have been limited to NEA, but as I see it, by and large, it is the lazy slobs who benefit from membership in the union. The union comes running to the aid of the ones that would benefit all to see gone. The union pour gazillions of $ into PACs that are NOT where I want MY $s going. If the union supports a candidate...that is a red flag to me to check out the OTHER guy. (generally)

well, I agree that the union does tend to attract the most troublesome of employees to its leadership, however ,it also brings a lot of benefits to the rest of us.I don't care what the guy next to me does in order to collect the same pay as me, Iworry about what the bottom line is for my family.

As for PACS......half the stuff I buy costs more because the corporations that make it are giving bribes to political causes.

Iworry about what the bottom line is for my family.
I am assuming that you are a guy who isn't afraid to actually work for a living. The schleps like us who are willing to work to better ourselves and the situations our families are in, are much better served by NOT having to pay exhorbitant union dues. We get the benefits from our employer for doing a good job. I HATE when a turd of an employee CAN'T be fired because he has his union rep give the boss grief. It makes work much more difficult for the general working population.

I am a firm believer that at one time there was a valid need for unions. (at least in the USA...don't know the history of labor there) The unions served a purpose and working conditions improved, but the there are laws today to protect the workers...and if they don't like their jobs they can darned well quit and find a better job if they want.

The last National [read Republican] government tried to destroy the union movement in this country, and did massive damage to the ordinary worker's conditions in the process.Wages got knocked back,staffing levels got rolled back, unemployment got cranked up[and unemployment benefits were made harsher], beneficiaries had their allowances cut,and the idea of working Monday to Friday with incentives to work unsociable hours got buried forever.The right couldn't disguise the fact that their policies were rubbish even by redifining terms like 'unemployed',hospital waiting list', 'superanuation',etc.

Under the present administration, organised labour that survived the attempts to smash the union movement is flourishing, while Joe Shmoe is still behind the 8 ball.

I drive a forkhoist. I get paid 15 bucks an hour.With union negotiated allowances for unsociable hours, paid meal breaks,skills allowances, shift pay etc, that gets pushed up to around 25 an hour.There are 5 crew rostered to do a job that three could scrape through for 12 hours if needs be. Planned leave is always covered by overtime staff, and we have the best safety gear available at all times.

Joe Shmoe out working for the smaller cowboy operators is lucky to get 12 bucks an hour. For any hour,night or day. If he argues,he gets told to like it or leave.He may be one of 2 forkies on the crew, and if the other guy doesn't show, he has to use his initiative to get the work done.He's lucky if he gets given a pair of safety boots and his hoist is a shitter that our firm has run for 2 years and replaced under contract.His starting pay rate is what he'll be on until he quits.There's no negotiation, here's the job,take it or leave it.

Joe shmoes boss complains regularly that the big companies are forcing him to pay more in wages than he can afford just to fill his vacancies.

There's a waiting list to get in where I work,and several of the team have been with the plant since the day it was commissioned in '87.There's never been a strike, and the division has always been very profitable.

There's no doubting that some of the team would not be able or willing to handle the workload or the conditions working with Joe Schmoe, but they get paid the same as the rest of us.I don't give a rats ass wether they do any work or whether they sit in the smokeshed all night playing cards.My job is well paid, secure, and civilised because when we talk to the bosses,we talk as one voice.A big one. The extra that we get by doing this is not big in terms of overhead for the company, but it makes a huge difference to the pay packet.The union gets its membership fees,and when you offset it against what they achieve for you, it would be damn churlish to whine about how they use it.They provide a service, that service is to make sure that you get fairly represented.

This is the only unionised job I have ever had, and it's also the one that puts the most money in my bank account for a fair and safe days work.I don't give a damn if others are getting the same money for doing less, or where my union sub goes.Bottom line is the cash and conditions that I get for my efforts are better than most.

I am a firm believer that at one time there was a valid need for unions. (at least in the USA...don't know the history of labor there) The unions served a purpose and working conditions improved, but the there are laws today to protect the workers...and if they don't like their jobs they can darned well quit and find a better job if they want.

I've never been more in agreement with you! Small Asian countries and the like as Naki mentioned may need unionizing to establish basic human rights, but in North America we're already very well covered in that respect. It's time for us to get a bit more cutthroat, IMO.

In response to Naki's last post

Most unions have proven themselves to be just fine and great, and there is no trouble with them. I'm not sure what the situation is in NZ, but over here we have some very problematic ones, however. They're constantly demanding outrageous wages for simple jobs, and are sometimes literally forcing the employer out of business because he/she can't meet union demands and still make a profit.

Saint John shipbuilding used to be a very large operation, a very well respected and capable shipbuilder, building ships for the whole world. There was a certain skill required for one facet of shipbuilding (can't remember which, sorry) however that none of the local population had. The Scottish, however, had plenty of people with this skill, and the shipbuilder brought them and their families over, gave them excellent benefits and a great job, etc etc. I personally have a very good friend who is one of them. Not long after, however, the Union at the shipbuilder started making outrageous demands that destroyed the profitability of the company. The shipbuilder had to shut the doors (admittedly there were other reasons as well, but it's a very long story, and the company could have taken the blow from them and still remained in business if not for the union), and all those new Scottish workers (plus all the other local workers) were out of a job, in a new country, most of them with families. To this day the shipbuilder has not re-opened, but the parent company of it has kept it all intact, just waiting for the day when they can re-open it without the union getting involved. That's just one example of how unions have destroyed local business.

There's another that fortunately ended up smoothing over just fine, but could have been very unfortunate. At the college I went to in Ontario, one of the years, there was a vote to strike. Fortunately they ended up resolving before they actually did strike, but had they striked, all students could have lost the year. We may or may not have had our tuition returned, but they wouldn't be able to compensate us for rent/food payment, never mind the year lost that could have seen us working, making income. The reason for the strike? The teachers were complaining about the hours they had to put in. The teachers who didn't vote to strike were the long-loved ones, who put in all the hours they needed to because they love their job.

I've seen some good come from unions, but in Canada at least and I think also in the US, the bad side of them outweighs the good.

This is the one area I differ from the republican adgenda, I am pro union.

I believe in a true union, not the corrupt ones that Heep pointed out. A union willing to work with a company to improve workers, the company and guaratee that the employer will not trample on its employees.

In the US we still have a need for unions because in these times were the bottom line of a compnay is the only thing that matters. Employers care less and less on how they impact there workers. I cited as an example this http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050126/hl_nm/life_smoking_dc_3 and this one http://www.thecarolinachannel.com/health/4134754/detail.html

Here is a site written about unions by a Canadian.
http://wrf.ca/comment/2004/0501/52

You know, I saw that tonight on the news about that company firing folks for smoking not only at work, but at home as well. WTF First smoking, next, weight, then drinking etc etc. What one does outside work is their own choice. I swear Big Brother is becoming a reality each and every day. Very scary.

TS out

They wouldn't be Star Trek fanatics would they? Cause someone once told me that the system in the Star Trek system is basically communism. :p

Actually a couple of them were members of the U.S.M.C.

Yeah once again it is our fault someone is in shiite. We planted missiles there and aimed them at ourselves. We loved Castro into his position there.


mmm you planted missiles in West Germany and aimed them at the USSR.

i'm sick of calling america a hypocracy.... but i'll keep doing it as long as they still practice it!

Not really... they are communist countries, but that doesnt mean its working out for them

Cbass: I disagree, if Castro didnt take control of Cuba they would be a MUCH more prosperous country right now, with much less poverty. Before Castro overthrew the government, Havana was what Las Vegas is today. The problem is that all the money they were making wasnt going to the people, it was going to the President and the people that controlled Cuba. They were making millions while the people got nothing. I think by now that would have corrected itself and it would have been a succesful capitalist country.

I was born in a communist country (because the Soviet Union forced all of eastern Europe to be Communist)
During communist times EVERYBODY had a job, guarenteed. You just got out of jail, you got a job right away. No matter what. Everybody had a purpose. The problem was there was NOTHING in stores, no choice. I saw pictures of my cousins first communion, all the girls were wearing the same exact dress because that was the ONLY dress in the store, they couldnt buy a different one. You would have to wait in line for 2 HOURS+ just to get a loaf of bread. And you basically had no rights and had to agree with the government or you would be killed.
So the system has its pros and cons

Now that our countries capitalist, its EXTREMELY hard to find a job. People basically do any job they can get, oh you have a degree as an engineer or whatever DOESNT MATTER. There are no jobs. You have to do whatever you can get. And the average pay is about $250 a MONTH. So people are really struggling. Mostly because of the corruption, everything is run by the Mafia they control the government, they control industries and they control the banks, so what can you do. Basically if you want to be rich, you have to have some kind of ties with the mob.

Thats a product of changing from communist to capitalist, i think its going to take a loooooooooong time before the system corrects itself.


If the communist system was followed exactly, then that would be the fairest and best political system by far. But I think its impossible for it to work because of the same things Heep said. Human qualities like greed would prevent everybody from living equally.


what, you mean like the Kennedy's? welcome to capitalism baby! the rich get richer and fuck the poor! basically it leads to aristocracy and eventually aristocracy leads to revolution! then a new form of government comes in... like communism, or democracy is reset, or maybe there will be a dictatorship (or monarchy cause it's much the same). wherever people get treated oppressively because of a heavily class based bias this occurs.

mmm you planted missiles in West Germany and aimed them at the USSR.

Well if the U.S.S.R. wouldn't of started sending troops and such to Cuba in the first place we might not of done that.

so everything's the USSR's fault? they went to Cuba before the US stationed troops and weapons in germany?

I thought that the US had nuclear weaponry, including missiles based in west germany (and throughout western europe) from about 1953. The cuban missile crisis wasn't until 1962, when Cuba asked for the missiles to offset the threat of american invasion. Funnily enough the US had been invading and meddling in other countries to try and fight the spread of socialism in usually poorer more densly populated countries. Cuba is right next door to the US and the US had already intervened with the spread of comunism in other parts of south america, i think they were rightly concerned with their safety. And the US DID invade, the bay of pigs rings a bell. as a result of the whole thing and the near nuclear war the US tried to throw the world into, The missiles did not get set up in Cuba, but the US missiles stayed in west Germany until into the 1980's. I guess the US can make it's own rules though....hypocrits.

mmm you planted missiles in West Germany and aimed them at the USSR.
I think if you check....those were in response to USSR's missiles in East Germany.

Lets leave month old threads in the dust bin.













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