Andrea Yates. Death Penalty or Life in Prison? You decide.
Sham365
03-12-2002, 06:26 PM
Houston Mother Found Guilty of Drowning Her Children, Faces Death Penalty
March 12 — Andrea Yates, the Houston mother on trial for drowning her five children last year, was convicted on two counts of capital murder today.
The verdict came just under four hours after deliberations began, surprising courtroom observers. Yates could face the death penalty when she is sentenced. The death penalty phase is scheduled to begin Thursday.
There was no doubt that Yates, 37, killed her five children last June. Both prosecutors and Yates' defense attorneys agreed that she was mentally ill. But her attorneys argued that she was not guilty by reason of insanity of the two counts of capital murder she faced.
The key issue at trial — and the pivotal issue for the 12-panel jury — was whether Yates could distinguish between right and wrong at the time of the slayings.
Yates' defense argued that she suffered from severe postpartum depression that made her incapable of rational thought when she killed her children.
Prosecutors argued that Yates confessed to police and psychiatrists that she planned in advance to kill the children, which suggested premeditation. The methodical way in which she drowned her children one-by-one, prosecutors argued, suggested that Yates was capable of distinguishing right from wrong.
"That's the key," prosecutor Kaylynn Williford said in closing arguments. "Andrea Yates knew right from wrong, and she made a choice on June 20 to kill her children deliberately and with deception."
Defense experts disagreed, arguing that Yates knew killing children was legally wrong, but was so delusional that she thought she was saving them from Satan.
"We can't permit objective logic to be imposed on the actions of Andrea Yates," defense attorney George Parnham said in his closing arguments. "She was so psychotic on June 20 that she absolutely believed what she was doing was the right thing to do."
Methodical Killing
According to police, shortly after her husband, Russell Yates, left for work at the Space Shuttle Program at NASA's Johnson Space Center on June 20, Andrea Yates methodically drowned her five children in the bathtub of their home. Police found the bodies of John, 5; Paul, 3; Luke, 2; and 6-month-old Mary in the master bedroom, covered with a sheet. The body of 7-year-old Noah was still in the tub, police said.
Police said Yates told them that she held Luke under water in the bathtub, then Paul, John, and Mary. Noah walked in while she was holding Mary under the water and tried to run away, but Yates said she caught him, and drowned him too.
When she finished, she called 911 and told police to come to her home, where they found her and the children's bodies.
Troubled Mother Under Pressure
Friends and relatives of Andrea Yates portrayed her as a mother who seemed overwhelmed by the responsibilities of raising five children and who feared that she was a bad mother. The Yates' lifestyle came under scrutiny as it was revealed that Russell Yates wanted to have a traditional family where he was the breadwinner and Andrea stayed home and raised and home-schooled the children. A minister, Russell said, encouraged him to teach the children at home to protect them from the moral corruption.
Russell Yates, who has stayed supportive of his wife since the killings, recalled how she tried to commit suicide multiple times two years before the drownings. Still, Russell Yates said, he didn't see her as a danger to herself or others, even after the birth of their fourth child. A psychiatrist also testified that she discouraged the Yateses in 1999 from having a fifth child because there was a 50 percent chance she would suffer from future psychosis. Still, they proceeded to have another child because Russell said the psychiatrist was not "adamant" against wishes.
Preoccupation With Satan
Defense expert Phillip Resnick was among the witnesses who said Yates had a preoccupation with Satan. Yates knew drowning her children was illegal, he said, but in her psychotic and delusional state, she thought it was the only way to save her children from eternal damnation. Resnick said Yates thought Satan lived within her and the state would execute her for her children's killings, thus eliminating evil from the world.
But prosecutors said Yates must be held accountable for her children's deaths. Yates didn't start claiming Satan lived within her or referring to a prophecy until the day after her arrest when she realized she had killed her five children and found herself naked in a jail cell, Williford argued.
She said Yates, a former nurse, had thought about harming her children for years and ignored a doctor's orders in 1999 to refrain from having any more by getting pregnant with her youngest child, Mary.
"Andrea Yates knew right from wrong and she made a choice on June 20 to kill her children," Williford said. "She made that choice to have Mary. She made that choice to fill the tub."
Yates could have been indicted in all the children's deaths, but prosecutors have said it is not necessary to seek indictments for all of them. One of the capital murder charges covers the deaths of Noah and John, qualifying for capital punishment because two victims were killed during the commission of the same crime. The second charge lists the death of 6-month-old Mary as a child under the age of 6, which also is a capital offense.
March 12 — Andrea Yates, the Houston mother on trial for drowning her five children last year, was convicted on two counts of capital murder today.
The verdict came just under four hours after deliberations began, surprising courtroom observers. Yates could face the death penalty when she is sentenced. The death penalty phase is scheduled to begin Thursday.
There was no doubt that Yates, 37, killed her five children last June. Both prosecutors and Yates' defense attorneys agreed that she was mentally ill. But her attorneys argued that she was not guilty by reason of insanity of the two counts of capital murder she faced.
The key issue at trial — and the pivotal issue for the 12-panel jury — was whether Yates could distinguish between right and wrong at the time of the slayings.
Yates' defense argued that she suffered from severe postpartum depression that made her incapable of rational thought when she killed her children.
Prosecutors argued that Yates confessed to police and psychiatrists that she planned in advance to kill the children, which suggested premeditation. The methodical way in which she drowned her children one-by-one, prosecutors argued, suggested that Yates was capable of distinguishing right from wrong.
"That's the key," prosecutor Kaylynn Williford said in closing arguments. "Andrea Yates knew right from wrong, and she made a choice on June 20 to kill her children deliberately and with deception."
Defense experts disagreed, arguing that Yates knew killing children was legally wrong, but was so delusional that she thought she was saving them from Satan.
"We can't permit objective logic to be imposed on the actions of Andrea Yates," defense attorney George Parnham said in his closing arguments. "She was so psychotic on June 20 that she absolutely believed what she was doing was the right thing to do."
Methodical Killing
According to police, shortly after her husband, Russell Yates, left for work at the Space Shuttle Program at NASA's Johnson Space Center on June 20, Andrea Yates methodically drowned her five children in the bathtub of their home. Police found the bodies of John, 5; Paul, 3; Luke, 2; and 6-month-old Mary in the master bedroom, covered with a sheet. The body of 7-year-old Noah was still in the tub, police said.
Police said Yates told them that she held Luke under water in the bathtub, then Paul, John, and Mary. Noah walked in while she was holding Mary under the water and tried to run away, but Yates said she caught him, and drowned him too.
When she finished, she called 911 and told police to come to her home, where they found her and the children's bodies.
Troubled Mother Under Pressure
Friends and relatives of Andrea Yates portrayed her as a mother who seemed overwhelmed by the responsibilities of raising five children and who feared that she was a bad mother. The Yates' lifestyle came under scrutiny as it was revealed that Russell Yates wanted to have a traditional family where he was the breadwinner and Andrea stayed home and raised and home-schooled the children. A minister, Russell said, encouraged him to teach the children at home to protect them from the moral corruption.
Russell Yates, who has stayed supportive of his wife since the killings, recalled how she tried to commit suicide multiple times two years before the drownings. Still, Russell Yates said, he didn't see her as a danger to herself or others, even after the birth of their fourth child. A psychiatrist also testified that she discouraged the Yateses in 1999 from having a fifth child because there was a 50 percent chance she would suffer from future psychosis. Still, they proceeded to have another child because Russell said the psychiatrist was not "adamant" against wishes.
Preoccupation With Satan
Defense expert Phillip Resnick was among the witnesses who said Yates had a preoccupation with Satan. Yates knew drowning her children was illegal, he said, but in her psychotic and delusional state, she thought it was the only way to save her children from eternal damnation. Resnick said Yates thought Satan lived within her and the state would execute her for her children's killings, thus eliminating evil from the world.
But prosecutors said Yates must be held accountable for her children's deaths. Yates didn't start claiming Satan lived within her or referring to a prophecy until the day after her arrest when she realized she had killed her five children and found herself naked in a jail cell, Williford argued.
She said Yates, a former nurse, had thought about harming her children for years and ignored a doctor's orders in 1999 to refrain from having any more by getting pregnant with her youngest child, Mary.
"Andrea Yates knew right from wrong and she made a choice on June 20 to kill her children," Williford said. "She made that choice to have Mary. She made that choice to fill the tub."
Yates could have been indicted in all the children's deaths, but prosecutors have said it is not necessary to seek indictments for all of them. One of the capital murder charges covers the deaths of Noah and John, qualifying for capital punishment because two victims were killed during the commission of the same crime. The second charge lists the death of 6-month-old Mary as a child under the age of 6, which also is a capital offense.
hermunn123
03-12-2002, 06:33 PM
death penalty.
Gonthrax
03-12-2002, 06:41 PM
I say life w/o parole, I think that knowing you are going to spend the wrest of your life in prison and your never going to get out is a fate worse then death.
Melis
03-12-2002, 06:57 PM
A bullet is much cheaper!
Either way ......she'll get what she deserves whether its on this earth or somewhere else-
that story just makes me ill everytime I hear about it on the news
Either way ......she'll get what she deserves whether its on this earth or somewhere else-
that story just makes me ill everytime I hear about it on the news
Marc04
03-12-2002, 08:27 PM
i beleive that she is mental ill, and i believe that she should have been found guilty, but i do not agree with killing her
taranaki
03-12-2002, 09:41 PM
I do not agree with killing people.By killing a criminal,we exercise the very act that we find repulsive.This woman needs to be removed from society permanently,a life sentence in solitary confinement would be insufficient, but there is no sentence compatible to the crime that does not involve a high degree of barbarism.
darkness
03-12-2002, 09:45 PM
life without parole!
let her live with the fact that she was convicted of murdering her own children. She'll probably go completely insane and top herself. And then there is no one to blame but her.
let her live with the fact that she was convicted of murdering her own children. She'll probably go completely insane and top herself. And then there is no one to blame but her.
ric
03-12-2002, 11:50 PM
death by torture should be brought back. lets let the english and the spanish oversee it too....they were quite impressive with thier ways.
Jimster
03-13-2002, 12:31 AM
WE don't hear about American murders in NZ so I will stay out of this one
Setanta
03-13-2002, 02:04 AM
I hadn't heard this one either. I'm not a death penalty advocate either, but I do believe that anyone that hams a child is pure evil and should never be alowed to be part of society ever again.
Moppie
03-13-2002, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by Setanta
I do believe that anyone that hams a child is pure evil and should never be alowed to be part of society ever again.
Hams a child???? :confused: :confused: :huh:
oh you mean Harmed!! :flash:
Well then why are you allowed to be a teacher? :p :o :p :p :p
As for the story, well Its just more of good old american sensationalism.
People making money off of others misfortune.
And besides, who are we to judge her? Did we sit through the entire trial? hear every witness, and see every piece of evidence? No. Which means we have no basis for coming up with a verdict.
Leave it up to the Judge and Jury. Its what thier there for.
I do believe that anyone that hams a child is pure evil and should never be alowed to be part of society ever again.
Hams a child???? :confused: :confused: :huh:
oh you mean Harmed!! :flash:
Well then why are you allowed to be a teacher? :p :o :p :p :p
As for the story, well Its just more of good old american sensationalism.
People making money off of others misfortune.
And besides, who are we to judge her? Did we sit through the entire trial? hear every witness, and see every piece of evidence? No. Which means we have no basis for coming up with a verdict.
Leave it up to the Judge and Jury. Its what thier there for.
Setanta
03-13-2002, 02:33 AM
Bastard :rolleyes:
It was a typo - honest :p
It was a typo - honest :p
SkyNex721
03-13-2002, 05:04 AM
I kept up with that trial, cause I would hear about it every morning in the gym. She does have a mental illness. But the doctors said that if she drowned her kids because of her mental illness she wouldn't of had the rationalization to think of the consequences of letting the oldest child get away. You see, while she drowned all of her kids, the oldest one got free and ran away. She was able to chase them down and bring them back. Which means that she knew that letting him go would have consequences.
That's what the psychiatrist said on TV.
So I think she should fry.:mad:
Why should we have to pay for someone like that to be around for another 40 years?:confused:
That's what the psychiatrist said on TV.
So I think she should fry.:mad:
Why should we have to pay for someone like that to be around for another 40 years?:confused:
Sham365
03-13-2002, 09:42 AM
I think her husband, Russell Yates, is a nut too. This woman drowned 5 of their kids and he still supports her? He showed virtually no emotion throughout the trial and seemed to suffer from a extreme lack of fashion sense. His wife is on trial and there he was looking like a hillbilly from Mayberry with his plaid shirts and crew cut. The whole family disgusts me. If any women gets with Russell Yates in the future she's a bonafide nut too. I hope NASA fired his ass.
DVSNCYNIKL
03-13-2002, 09:52 AM
Death Penalty!
Gonthrax
03-13-2002, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by Moppie
Hams a child???? :confused: :confused: :huh:
oh you mean Harmed!! :flash:
Well then why are you allowed to be a teacher? :p :o :p :p :p
I just chalked it up as aussi lingo :D :D
Hams a child???? :confused: :confused: :huh:
oh you mean Harmed!! :flash:
Well then why are you allowed to be a teacher? :p :o :p :p :p
I just chalked it up as aussi lingo :D :D
AEstud
03-13-2002, 01:57 PM
anyone who kills(except for peeps that work for the gov't or police department and self defense etc...)should be killed.
YogsVR4
03-13-2002, 04:19 PM
I like the Chinese method. Shoot her in the head and bill the family for the bullet.
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Steel
03-13-2002, 06:43 PM
lol, yeah imagine getting a bill "You owe $0.50 to the government to cover the costs of your wifes execusion"
Jimster
03-13-2002, 11:55 PM
After following it up I believe that she should be declared insane- the real fault is Texas' obviously sub-standard mental health system
jslone
03-14-2002, 11:35 AM
The death penalty.Her children have no one to speak for them.They are dead.To have her live the rest of her life in prison is hypocritical at best.Also the so called doctors should be bille for the trial and anything else yates does while she is alive.They knew how bad she was and in my view did nothing to help her.
vtecluvr
03-15-2002, 03:06 PM
i think it would be more of a punishment to be locked up for the rest of her life than to be executed. and i believe she deserves it. however there is the fact that it cost tax payers to keep someone in prison. so i say kill her. what she did is absolutly disgusting she should have just killed herself.
hermunn123
03-15-2002, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Jimmy_11_cars
After following it up I believe that she should be declared insane- the real fault is Texas' obviously sub-standard mental health system
sorry, but i'm just curious on one thing. you live in New Zealand, on the opposite end of the world from Texas and you're commenting on its "sub-standard mental health system." when i talk about something, i usually like to know what i'm talking about. so i'm wondering how do you know how Texas' mental health system. does Texas even have a mental health system? i've never heard of one. doctors made those statements of her being sane, not Texas. anyone else get this??
After following it up I believe that she should be declared insane- the real fault is Texas' obviously sub-standard mental health system
sorry, but i'm just curious on one thing. you live in New Zealand, on the opposite end of the world from Texas and you're commenting on its "sub-standard mental health system." when i talk about something, i usually like to know what i'm talking about. so i'm wondering how do you know how Texas' mental health system. does Texas even have a mental health system? i've never heard of one. doctors made those statements of her being sane, not Texas. anyone else get this??
Jimster
03-16-2002, 02:29 AM
No offence or nothing but if the average Texan were to move to NZ then I am sure they would be admitted for some electro-shock therapy (When I went to Houston all I saw were nutcases who thought they were in the times of the wild-wild west)
Really if her husband had been there for her and supported her through the illness this mess could have been avoided, if anything her husband should be locked up with her.
Basically rather than supporting the mentally ill Texas chooses to lock em up and throw away the key/kill them, something unheard of here (Except Christchurch in which case they are allowed to run free in the city and in John Banks case run Auckland city :D).
What is the bet that if the jury were to witness her execution, should it take place, that 9 out of 10 of them will bring Popcorn and Jaffa's
Really if her husband had been there for her and supported her through the illness this mess could have been avoided, if anything her husband should be locked up with her.
Basically rather than supporting the mentally ill Texas chooses to lock em up and throw away the key/kill them, something unheard of here (Except Christchurch in which case they are allowed to run free in the city and in John Banks case run Auckland city :D).
What is the bet that if the jury were to witness her execution, should it take place, that 9 out of 10 of them will bring Popcorn and Jaffa's
gang$tarr
03-16-2002, 03:01 PM
people like that don't deserve to live
and jimmy, she may need mental help, but what she did is just so sick and wrong, and it's an act of crime... she should die
she needed help before, it's not up to the state to find mentally ill people.... she did something wrong, and no insane bullshit should stop her from getting the death penalty
she did what she did, not anybody else
and jimmy, she may need mental help, but what she did is just so sick and wrong, and it's an act of crime... she should die
she needed help before, it's not up to the state to find mentally ill people.... she did something wrong, and no insane bullshit should stop her from getting the death penalty
she did what she did, not anybody else
Jimster
03-17-2002, 12:37 AM
Forget it I aren't going to argue with you Americans no longer- the death penalty is wrong and I am against it-
she should, however, be put in a straight-jacket and locked up where she can't do herself or any-one else any harm.
she should, however, be put in a straight-jacket and locked up where she can't do herself or any-one else any harm.
NSX-R-SSJ20K
03-17-2002, 01:24 AM
i'm glad to see the old death penalty is still an option :bandit: smoke em
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