True 5sfe power

one of my good friends just bought a 90 celica gt-s (my 3rd friend to buy a celica becuase of me :) ) and wants to get more power out of his gt-s but still wants it to pass smog and all that good junk...and i just thoguht of a n AWSOME solution

Buy a 3rd or 2nd gen 3sgte....and change out the shortblocks and turbo...thats it

hes gunna buy a 2nd gen 3sgte, were gunna take the f head off the 5sfe and use the bottem end of the 3sgte and use the turbo from it and all that good junk...i thought of this before but it never really appealed to me to do this swap, he dosent have the time (or the money, only has about 2k for performance 2 k for looks) do do a full 3sgte swap, plus ive helped complete one and there a big bitch, took nearly 6 months and he needs this car to get from home to work to school, i fugure all this should only take a good weekend... after thinking about this for some time its actually a good idea (i didnt like this idea previously becuase you dont get to use the g head and its not really a true 3sgte) you retain the benefits of an early tourqe curve before the turbo is spooled, and you have a 200HP fwd celica by only spending around $1200...not only that you have a VERY GOOD base engine to build upon...as well as in the future you still have the option of making it into a true 3sgte swap...

wether or not he decides to do this i thought id post this becuase in essence its a GREAT alternative to people who dont want to do the 3sgte swap but want a good amount of HP and a good motor to build off of...

so what would the name of it be??? 3s-FTE?l

lol

i got one of those i wish i could do that to mine

ha yeah it would be a 3S-fte... still....it would be quick as fuck

what ecu will u use?

keep us updated.

he has the motor and we havnt started, he bought a 2nd gen 3sgte and is almost as lazy as me so we havnt even started the project, he didnt even get the motor till mid april anyway, but the only thing thats done is the head is off the 3sgte, thats pretty much it, he wants to put the turbo on his 5sfe and get the same ecu upgrade i got for my recent project, the smt-6 and wants to see how much boost the 5sfe can take with the 3sgte ct turbo and all that stuff but i doubt he will cuz hes a lazy fucker

so ur not using the 3s block

no he is using the 3sgte

first off he got the motor and pulled the head and all the turbo stuff off, he is in the process of getting the ecu re chipped (a puiggyback) once thats done hes gunna run the turbo on his 5sfe for a little just to se how much the 5sfe can handle, once it gernades hes guinna swap the bottem ends but i bet itll take him another month or 2 just to put the piggyback on his ecu, were all lazy around here

You talk about taking a 3s-gte and putting a 5s-fe head on it?

What exactly would be the point of that if your trying to save money?

He bought a whole 3s-gte anyway, then he's gonna probably have to fabricate or buy a turbo exhaust manifold to fit the 5s-fe head, then buy a standalone, because just a rinkydink fuel or ignition controller your definitely not gonna pass emissions.

Not to mention the addition of a 2.2 liter head to a 2.0 liter bottom end would result in a drop of compression, which would in turn drop HP, which would in turn be a waste of time even doing that.

So lets add it up and compare:
3s-gte engine, wire harness, and ECU ~$1500
VS.
3s-gte engine ~$1000
Aftermarket standalone ~$1000
Custom turbo manifold ~$300

TOTAL:
3s-gte ~$1500
"3s-fte" ~$2300

Why not just completely swap the 3s-gte, and because its a stock engine from Japan the emissions wont be that far off from US specs, buy an aftermaket fuel and ignition controller like Megasquirt, then de-tune the car before you go to emissions by turning the fuel down and boost down. That would only cost you $300 and alot less time.

the 3sgte manifold will fit the 5sfe, and a 3sgte swap will cost u more than that for a full swap expect 4000-5000k just buying the engine is not all you have to do.

I am assuming the engine has the harness & ecu w/ it.... if so the cost should not be much to fully swap. The cost of the standalone for the 5sfe, and also the consideration that the higher milage head will probably smoke if you try to put it back on w/out a rebuild still puts me back to saying the full swap is more ideal.

I do not have much experience w/ the celica family as I have owned only 3 corollas, but still if the cost and efficiency towards emissions is the issue, then I would still keep the whole engine intact for the project instead of a hybrid.

GE Head > FE Head

ur misinformed, you can get just the 3sgte motor for around $800 shiupped to ur door, a piggy back ecu (smt-6 namly one of them) for $350 and use all the existing parts off the 3sgte including DP (that needs to be mated to ur exhaust)... the only things that would chagne in the whole swap was the deck heigth of the motor, the 3sgte is 2.0 (8.8 comp) like u said and the 5sfe is 2.2 (9.3 comp) like u said, exuivelantly that would raise the blocks comp to about 9.1, witch would be solved easily by a 1.5 mm (to 8.6 comp) or a 2mm (down to 8.1) (these are roughly #'s), thats pretty much it, how do u figure using ur old head would smoke? if it worked perfectly before, as long as it wasnt dammaged in the swapping process it should be fine to use again

and for passing emissions theres no way a 3sgte (jdm like u said) can pass emissions in any of the 50 states legally, they dont have an egr valve and wont even be in the smog shop for more than a minut before it fails because it wont even passs visual


and as for only $1500 for the 3sgte swap, go online and research it, the probable best palce would be toyotacelicaonline.com in the forums section, i think the CHEAPEST the 3sgte swap went for was about $2250, and the average was about $3500, some even costing $5k+ if they had a mechanic do the swap for them

think you have to use a diffrent tranney, you need COUNTLESS sensors that dont ever come with buyinng the ecu/wiering harness (like Turbo sensor pack, Turbo Pressure sensor, AFM, fuel pump resistor packs, etc) that could cost you over $1k trying to find alone, therefore you would need to buy a frontclip...witch i have personally never seen go below $2000 not to mention the cost of shipping (at least $500) and then thers the cost of getting a new trany (can use the 5sfe if you have a gt/s if not u must buy one, a camry v6, or a mr2 one) new timing belt (might as well chagne head gasket when u get the motor) not to mention the amount of broken parts (you will snap half shatfs like tooth pics, i already broke 3 halfshafts with my ST and im not nearly at that much power)

so oh wait no LET US ADD IT UP, you lookin at over $1500 there guy, more along the lines of $3500 for what? 225 HP? why not spend $1000-$1500 and get about 200...no ill admit it wont have nearl as much potential as doing the 3sgte swap buts its a great alternative (like i said) for someone to gain quick easy power for a fraction of the cost

someone got pwnd real bad =D

what all engine managment systems would work for this swap?

pretty much any piggback ecu that supports boost( most anyway) or any re chipping/eeprom/ rom chips that will support boost

you gotta remember the pretty much 2 reasons why ur stock ecu wont work is cuz
1. it wont add adequit fuel to compensate for the turbocharger- this CAN be solved with an safc or something like that but then theres the issue of...
2. with boost comes posotive maifold pressure and your ecu wont read that and it will confuse the shit outta it...hence reverting back to reason #1 nd fucking the whole thing up...thes ecan be solved without a piggy back or standalone but i wouldnt reccomend it

you necessariily dont need to even any fuel/spark managment system (even tho id never run a car withought it) you can get a rising fuel pressure regulator, safc (or somthing like it) run one step colder plugs, highest octane possible, pull some timing, and yhou could run a good 7 psi max...a cheap method but id still only do this if i absolutly needed to boost a car and couldnt get a FMU

would u just put the standalone in place of ur ecu or what?

would u just put the standalone in place of ur ecu or what?

Yep.. that's why it's called a standalone because you don't need the stock ECU.

A standalone controls all functions by itself.. a piggy back also controls functions, but in the parameters of the stock ECU.

can a standalone raise boost past the normal l;evel or will u have to get a boost comntroller for that?

boost conrtoller=raises boost
piggyuback/standalone=controlls engine function like air/fuel ration

91 where can u get a 3sgte for 800 dollars shipped that you were talkin about?

look...do research, some places would be (yes im sorry to say it) ebay, others are things like attarco.com and varisou others, DO ONLINE RESEARCH