what model integra?

I've been lookin around AF world and saw a few places that some people think a GS integra is better than a GSR in the long run (if you want to mod it that is) they say save your money and just get the GS. I"m lookin into gettin a GSR in the next couple of months, but from what i've read around the forums, i'm thinking twice......so, GS or GSR......in your guys' opinions.

It all depends on what you are going to do.

GS = non-vtec 1.8
GSR = vtec 1.8 + higher compression

I'm no expert on this, but as far as I know, the GS motor is more suited for forced induction.

That's good, if you're prepared to spend more than $5,000 US on the turbo/supercharger plus other components needed to accomodate boost.

It will also be much faster than a GSR.

However, if you don't have several thousands of dollars and the confidence & know-how to tune and tweak a turbo/supercharger, then get a GSR.
It's usually only a couple thousand more than a GS and considerably faster in stock form.

If you plan on doing some light modding (naturally aspirated) then the GSR is probably still the better buy. (if you can afford it)

Good luck whatever you decide. Either way, you'll end up with a fine car that's well suited either way for mods.

I'm planning on going naturally aspirated on my GS. In the end, it will probably only be as fast as a GSR (or not that much faster).

either way, GS or GSR i'm planning on new internals and forced induction. new camshafts, new pistons, connecting rods, head gasket, valve springs, fuel system, intake, exhaust. and then probably a Drag gen III turbo. along with suspension components.

get the gsr.... yes a gs will be more suited for forced induction but that does not mean that a gsr can't be forced fed. I have a '00 turbocharged gsr and let me tell ya the thing is a blast to drive. There may be more things (i.e vtec) to mess around with in order to get the gsr motor properly tuned and tweaked with a turbo bolted on but ya can still slap a turbo or supercharger on it and haul ass:D

:quote:There may be more things (i.e vtec) to
mess around with in order to get the gsr motor properly tuned and tweaked with a turbo bolted on :quote:




could you explain what you mean? i've heard a few people say that around here, but i'm not quite sure on what type of "messing around" i would have to do to get it properly tuned. thanx

from what I understand of it.... when you turbo a vtec motor (GSR OR TYPE R) you will probably run into the problem of valve overlap and lose potential power from the turbo. The way vtec works is that as the rpm's increase your first set of cams will start to slow down as the second set of cams kick in.... as far as I know on the GS the cams won't slow down since there is no vtec and there will be a consistent steady flow of power which when turocharged will be more effective then turboing a vtec. However, there are ways around this problem of turboing a vtec, just takes time and money... hope this helps some. If I'm wrong on this one people let me know.

what kind of turbo do you have on your gsr and how much boost are you running? and about how much did it cost you total?

I have the drag gen III kit... turbonetics t3/t4e turbo, kit cost me $3300 with everything needed including new rc engineering injectors, boost and air fuel ratio gauge, apexi turbo timer, missing link, and next day air from cali out to CT. Right now I'm running just under 7 psi cause I'm running on stock internals... in the process of building them up so I crank the boost up

i'm jealous.....are you happy with the kit so far? is that a complete list of the things that come with it? looks like it has more in the picture that www.importparts.com has on its site.

Originally posted by casperGSR
The way vtec works is that as the rpm's increase your first set of cams will start to slow down as the second set of cams kick in....

I'm not bashing or anything, but thats not how vtec works. you have 2 cams, intake and exhaust. They always go proportional with the crank and dont change speed relative to the crank. When the rpm is high enough, hydraulic pressure builds up enough to activate an arm that locks the 2 intake or exhaust valves together and they both utilize a different cam lobe set for higher rpms so they get more air/fuel into the combustion chamber. Just didnt want people to get the wrong info on vtec..

i love my gs-r

get the gs-r, there's more different on it than just the motor, how bout the four wheel disk brakes, a close range gear ratio and better suspension. I love the vtec engine too, and the vtec does'nt nessarily mean its less capable of forced induction, there are many companies that sell turbo kits for the engine, D.R.A.G. and greddy (street legal). is there any kits out for the ls?


ps. casper, how did the turbo install go for the 2000, was there any problems with fitting, becuase the 2000-2001 gs-r's have a different exhaust setup (manifold, cat b-pipe) then from a 94-99

yes, i agree with the post above this one. GSRs have good stock equipments. Such as ABS. Did you know you cant get a civic with abs? Oh yeah i'm also interested with the 2000GSR turbo, how do you get around the exhaust problem?

Drag also makes a kit for the b19b series engine.

Whoa, thats a new one! I of course meant b18b

Drag Gen III's are street legal aren't they xodus?

the beauty of VTEC lies in its engineering for NA performance

turbo'ing a VTEC engine is almost as big of a sin to me as drag racing an ITR (or any honda for that matter)

but wouldn't turboing the engine improve its performance, and therefore improve the vtec? i dont see how its a sin.....

Originally posted by ImportNut1212
i'm jealous.....are you happy with the kit so far? is that a complete list of the things that come with it? looks like it has more in the picture that www.importparts.com has on its site.

not a complete list.... got with it: turbonetics t3/t4e turbo, drag intercooler, turbonetics deltagate/wastegate, hks bov, cast iron exhaust manifold, all necessary piping for intercooler intake, vortech fmu, drag fuel pump, plus the extras I listed above... if ya wanna check out the ride visit www.importfuzion.com... click under members

Originally posted by 97teg


I'm not bashing or anything, but thats not how vtec works. you have 2 cams, intake and exhaust. They always go proportional with the crank and dont change speed relative to the crank. When the rpm is high enough, hydraulic pressure builds up enough to activate an arm that locks the 2 intake or exhaust valves together and they both utilize a different cam lobe set for higher rpms so they get more air/fuel into the combustion chamber. Just didnt want people to get the wrong info on vtec..

thanx for the clarification... i wasn't sure if I was right, no offense taken ::confused:

Originally posted by xodus917
i love my gs-r



ps. casper, how did the turbo install go for the 2000, was there any problems with fitting, becuase the 2000-2001 gs-r's have a different exhaust setup (manifold, cat b-pipe) then from a 94-99

ran into some problems with it actually... the down pipe leading into the cat converter was not shaped correctly so some cutting and welding had to be down along with welding on a flange for it to attach to the cat... also had some issues with the cooling fan being very close to the turbo and intercooler, we had to cut back the shroud on the fan and actually trim back the edges of the fan so it wouldn't be so close to the turbo cause when that thing starts spooling up enough and the intercooler is working hard the fan would melt if it was too close. Only other issue is that the piping for the air filter isn't shaped as well as it could be so we're custom bending some piping to fit the air filter in better then it is right now... just like any afer market part there are always bumps in the road, definately was worth it though.

about how much would it cost me to get my rs converted to vtec?

depends on how much you get your head and ECU for....prolly around 2.5-4K

thats for the input caser


impotnut, i'm not sure if the drag kit is street legal, i'm only sure that the greddy kit is.(it carries a carb number)

DOes anyone know if they are legal? with carb # and all?

i'm pretty sure drag turbos are not street legal. i remember reading a post about how with a drag turbo kit you cant pass emissions. so i'm guessing that would make it not legal for street use.

Originally posted by ImportNut1212
DOes anyone know if they are legal? with carb # and all?

Most certainly will NOT pass emmissions.... :mad: that's why I slapped it on a week or two after i went through emmissions:p ... at least I have two years now until I have to worry about emmissions... another thing that prevents it from being street legal is the external wastegate because unless you route it into the exhaust it opens up in the engine bay and lets exhaust fumes directly into the atmosphere... even if you did route it back to the exhaust it still wouldn't pass emmissions though so to answer your question: NO not street legal

ahhh crap:mad: i dont relaly wanna deal with the emissions, so i guess its greddy or some other company. any suggestions?

the only street legal turbo kit for an integra that I know of is the greddy kit... you can look around and ask people but that's the only one that I'm aware of. good luck.

anyone know if the greddy kit would still be street legal if you upped the boost to about 14-15 psi (about all pump gas can handle). With engine buildup of coarse, ie, pistons rods, darton ductile cylinder sleeves and all.?

Originally posted by ImportNut1212
but wouldn't turboing the engine improve its performance, and therefore improve the vtec? i dont see how its a sin.....

no because the high rpm cam lobe of the DOHC VTEC engines have big overlap

big overlap is good for normal aspiration. basically here is how it works

before the intake valves open, the exhaust goes out the exhaust valve.. and develops some momentum. as the intake valve opens.. the vacuum created by the now-well-moving exhaust gasses help "pull" the intake air into the cylinder. this increases the amount of air that gets into the cylinder

the problem with turbo is that this intake air is already being pushed in by the compressed air from the turbo, so during this overlap phase it will just push the intake air right out the exhaust valve and you lose power (compared to what you could have)

why is it then; in the Honda-acura performance handbook by joe petitt they build up a gs-r motor with stock cams to 477 hp. when they turned off vtec, they actually lost power, had about the high 200 hp. In their records they gained lots of power with the vtec on with tuning of their vtec engagement point. I think the b18c1 can make just as much power if not more than an ls would with a turbo.

I agree, it is a myth that Vtec is bad for turbos. But in reality, with correct tuning vtec greatly improve preformance on a turbo. You're changing the charateristics of the car by bolting on a turbo why not tune your vtec settings?

putting a turbo on the car increases the pressure of the intake charge, it stuffs more air.. its almost like running NA at higher revs.. which means for VTEC to actually assist you in this.. you would need to RAISE the crossover point.. and there is little worth in doing that unless you raise the redline significantly too

VTEC offers little assistance to turbo

the evidence is that VTEC was an engineering design FOR normal aspiration. it is meant to help a normally aspirated engine

turbo'ing a honda is an absolute sin IMNSHO anyway
drag racing a honda is an even bigger sin

no offense shadowboy, but i think your one of the only ones that thinks turbo'ing a honda/acura is a sin. look at all the turbo'd civics/integras, they perform very wel for being low displacement 4's. and dragging? what about lisa kubbo and adam? lisa drives 9 sec. civic, and adam drives a 7 second nsx. i dont think thats a sin.

shadow your working on the assumption that a turbo would need absolutely no valve overlap which is basically the non vtec cam. but turbos do benefit from valve overlap as well just not as long duration as NA valve overlap. wouldn't it make sense to use the turbo to help blow out the exhaust. too much however would make the boost blow through which would be detrimental to effeciency like you said earlier. But even though the vtec cam on a b18c1 has overlap it's duration is allot less then that of a cam that is performanced tuned to a N/A car such as the type-R cam and many aftermarket cams for N/A like spoon, skunk2 etc. Many turbo tuners stick with the stock cam or switch to a turbo cam like frogger which still incorparates the vtec hi lift and overlap but with a shorter duration. Remember also that turbos do benifit from the higher lift of the vtec cam as well.