Georgie Porgies Plan for World Conquest aka inaugral speech 2005
TRD2000
01-20-2005, 07:48 PM
Vice President Cheney, Mr. Chief Justice, President Carter, President Bush, President Clinton, members of the United States Congress, reverend clergy, distinguished guests, fellow citizens:
On this day, prescribed by law and marked by ceremony, we celebrate the durable wisdom of our Constitution and recall the deep commitments that unite our country. I am grateful for the honor of this hour, mindful of the consequential times in which we live and determined to fulfill the oath that I have sworn and you have witnessed.
At this second gathering, our duties are defined not by the words I use, but by the history we have seen together. For a half-century, America defended our own freedom by standing watch on distant borders. After the shipwreck of communism came years of relative quiet, years of repose, years of sabbatical -- and then there came a day of fire.
We have seen our vulnerability, and we have seen its deepest source. For as long as whole regions of the world simmer in resentment and tyranny -- prone to ideologies that feed hatred and excuse murder -- violence will gather, and multiply in destructive power, and cross the most defended borders and raise a mortal threat.
There is only one force of history that can break the reign of hatred and resentment and expose the pretensions of tyrants and reward the hopes of the decent and tolerant. And that is the force of human freedom.
We are led, by events and common sense, to one conclusion: The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. The best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world.
America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one. From the day of our founding, we have proclaimed that every man and woman on this Earth has rights, and dignity and matchless value because they bear the image of the maker of heaven and Earth.
Across the generations, we have proclaimed the imperative of self-government, because no one is fit to be a master, and no one deserves to be a slave. Advancing these ideals is the mission that created our nation. It is the honorable achievement of our fathers. Now it is the urgent requirement of our nation's security and the calling of our time.
So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world.
This is not primarily the task of arms, though we will defend ourselves and our friends by force of arms when necessary. Freedom, by its nature, must be chosen and defended by citizens and sustained by the rule of law and the protection of minorities. And when the soul of a nation finally speaks, the institutions that arise may reflect customs and traditions very different from our own.
America will not impose our own style of government on the unwilling. Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom and make their own way.
The great objective of ending tyranny is the concentrated work of generations. The difficulty of the task is no excuse for avoiding it. America's influence is not unlimited, but fortunately for the oppressed, America's influence is considerable, and we will use it confidently in freedom's cause.
My most solemn duty is to protect this nation and its people from further attacks and emerging threats. Some have unwisely chosen to test America's resolve and have found it firm.
We will persistently clarify the choice before every ruler and every nation -- the moral choice between oppression, which is always wrong, and freedom, which is eternally right. America will not pretend that jailed dissidents prefer their chains, or that women welcome humiliation and servitude or that any human being aspires to live at the mercy of bullies.
We will encourage reform in other governments by making clear that success in our relations will require the decent treatment of their own people. America's belief in human dignity will guide our policies. Yet, rights must be more than the grudging concessions of dictators; they are secured by free dissent and the participation of the governed. In the long run, there is no justice without freedom, and there can be no human rights without human liberty.
Some, I know, have questioned the global appeal of liberty -- though this time in history, four decades defined by the swiftest advance of freedom ever seen, is an odd time for doubt. Americans, of all people, should never be surprised by the power of our ideals. Eventually, the call of freedom comes to every mind and every soul. We do not accept the existence of permanent tyranny because we do not accept the possibility of permanent slavery. Liberty will come to those who love it.
Today, America speaks anew to the peoples of the world:
All who live in tyranny and hopelessness can know: The United States will not ignore your oppression, or excuse your oppressors. When you stand for your liberty, we will stand with you.
Democratic reformers facing repression, prison or exile can know: America sees you for who you are -- the future leaders of your free country.
The rulers of outlaw regimes can know that we still believe as Abraham Lincoln did: "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves; and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
The leaders of governments with long habits of control need to know: To serve your people you must learn to trust them. Start on this journey of progress and justice, and America will walk at your side.
And all the allies of the United States can know: We honor your friendship, we rely on your counsel, and we depend on your help. Division among free nations is a primary goal of freedom's enemies. The concerted effort of free nations to promote democracy is a prelude to our enemies' defeat.
Today, I also speak anew to my fellow citizens:
From all of you, I have asked patience in the hard task of securing America, which you have granted in good measure. Our country has accepted obligations that are difficult to fulfill and would be dishonorable to abandon. Yet because we have acted in the great liberating tradition of this nation, tens of millions have achieved their freedom.
And as hope kindles hope, millions more will find it. By our efforts, we have lit a fire as well -- a fire in the minds of men. It warms those who feel its power, it burns those who fight its progress, and one day this untamed fire of freedom will reach the darkest corners of our world.
A few Americans have accepted the hardest duties in this cause -- in the quiet work of intelligence and diplomacy ... the idealistic work of helping raise up free governments ... the dangerous and necessary work of fighting our enemies. Some have shown their devotion to our country in deaths that honored their whole lives, and we will always honor their names and their sacrifice.
All Americans have witnessed this idealism and some for the first time. I ask our youngest citizens to believe the evidence of your eyes. You have seen duty and allegiance in the determined faces of our soldiers. You have seen that life is fragile, and evil is real, and courage triumphs. Make the choice to serve in a cause larger than your wants, larger than yourself, and in your days you will add not just to the wealth of our country but to its character.
America has need of idealism and courage because we have essential work at home -- the unfinished work of American freedom. In a world moving toward liberty, we are determined to show the meaning and promise of liberty.
In America's ideal of freedom, citizens find the dignity and security of economic independence, instead of laboring on the edge of subsistence. This is the broader definition of liberty that motivated the Homestead Act, the Social Security Act and the GI Bill of Rights. And now we will extend this vision by reforming great institutions to serve the needs of our time.
To give every American a stake in the promise and future of our country, we will bring the highest standards to our schools and build an ownership society. We will widen the ownership of homes and businesses, retirement savings and health insurance -- preparing our people for the challenges of life in a free society.
By making every citizen an agent of his or her own destiny, we will give our fellow Americans greater freedom from want and fear and make our society more prosperous and just and equal.
In America's ideal of freedom, the public interest depends on private character -- on integrity and tolerance toward others and the rule of conscience in our own lives. Self-government relies, in the end, on the governing of the self.
That edifice of character is built in families, supported by communities with standards,and sustained in our national life by the truths of Sinai, the Sermon on the Mount, the words of the Koran and the varied faiths of our people. Americans move forward in every generation by reaffirming all that is good and true that came before -- ideals of justice and conduct that are the same yesterday, today and forever.
In America's ideal of freedom, the exercise of rights is ennobled by service and mercy and a heart for the weak. Liberty for all does not mean independence from one another. Our nation relies on men and women who look after a neighbor and surround the lost with love.
Americans, at our best, value the life we see in one another and must always remember that even the unwanted have worth. And our country must abandon all the habits of racism because we cannot carry the message of freedom and the baggage of bigotry at the same time.
From the perspective of a single day, including this day of dedication, the issues and questions before our country are many. From the viewpoint of centuries, the questions that come to us are narrowed and few. Did our generation advance the cause of freedom? And did our character bring credit to that cause?
These questions that judge us also unite us, because Americans of every party and background, Americans by choice and by birth, are bound to one another in the cause of freedom. We have known divisions, which must be healed to move forward in great purposes -- and I will strive in good faith to heal them.
Yet those divisions do not define America. We felt the unity and fellowship of our nation when freedom came under attack, and our response came like a single hand over a single heart. And we can feel that same unity and pride whenever America acts for good, and the victims of disaster are given hope, and the unjust encounter justice, and the captives are set free.
We go forward with complete confidence in the eventual triumph of freedom. Not because history runs on the wheels of inevitability; it is human choices that move events. Not because we consider ourselves a chosen nation; God moves and chooses as he wills.
We have confidence because freedom is the permanent hope of mankind, the hunger in dark places, the longing of the soul. When our Founders declared a new order of the ages, when soldiers died in wave upon wave for a union based on liberty, when citizens marched in peaceful outrage under the banner "Freedom Now" -- they were acting on an ancient hope that is meant to be fulfilled.
History has an ebb and flow of justice, but history also has a visible direction set by liberty and the author of liberty.
When the Declaration of Independence was first read in public and the Liberty Bell was sounded in celebration, a witness said, "It rang as if it meant something." In our time it means something still.
America, in this young century, proclaims liberty throughout all the world and to all the inhabitants thereof. Renewed in our strength -- tested, but not weary -- we are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom.
May God bless you, and may he watch over the United States of America.
On this day, prescribed by law and marked by ceremony, we celebrate the durable wisdom of our Constitution and recall the deep commitments that unite our country. I am grateful for the honor of this hour, mindful of the consequential times in which we live and determined to fulfill the oath that I have sworn and you have witnessed.
At this second gathering, our duties are defined not by the words I use, but by the history we have seen together. For a half-century, America defended our own freedom by standing watch on distant borders. After the shipwreck of communism came years of relative quiet, years of repose, years of sabbatical -- and then there came a day of fire.
We have seen our vulnerability, and we have seen its deepest source. For as long as whole regions of the world simmer in resentment and tyranny -- prone to ideologies that feed hatred and excuse murder -- violence will gather, and multiply in destructive power, and cross the most defended borders and raise a mortal threat.
There is only one force of history that can break the reign of hatred and resentment and expose the pretensions of tyrants and reward the hopes of the decent and tolerant. And that is the force of human freedom.
We are led, by events and common sense, to one conclusion: The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. The best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world.
America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one. From the day of our founding, we have proclaimed that every man and woman on this Earth has rights, and dignity and matchless value because they bear the image of the maker of heaven and Earth.
Across the generations, we have proclaimed the imperative of self-government, because no one is fit to be a master, and no one deserves to be a slave. Advancing these ideals is the mission that created our nation. It is the honorable achievement of our fathers. Now it is the urgent requirement of our nation's security and the calling of our time.
So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world.
This is not primarily the task of arms, though we will defend ourselves and our friends by force of arms when necessary. Freedom, by its nature, must be chosen and defended by citizens and sustained by the rule of law and the protection of minorities. And when the soul of a nation finally speaks, the institutions that arise may reflect customs and traditions very different from our own.
America will not impose our own style of government on the unwilling. Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom and make their own way.
The great objective of ending tyranny is the concentrated work of generations. The difficulty of the task is no excuse for avoiding it. America's influence is not unlimited, but fortunately for the oppressed, America's influence is considerable, and we will use it confidently in freedom's cause.
My most solemn duty is to protect this nation and its people from further attacks and emerging threats. Some have unwisely chosen to test America's resolve and have found it firm.
We will persistently clarify the choice before every ruler and every nation -- the moral choice between oppression, which is always wrong, and freedom, which is eternally right. America will not pretend that jailed dissidents prefer their chains, or that women welcome humiliation and servitude or that any human being aspires to live at the mercy of bullies.
We will encourage reform in other governments by making clear that success in our relations will require the decent treatment of their own people. America's belief in human dignity will guide our policies. Yet, rights must be more than the grudging concessions of dictators; they are secured by free dissent and the participation of the governed. In the long run, there is no justice without freedom, and there can be no human rights without human liberty.
Some, I know, have questioned the global appeal of liberty -- though this time in history, four decades defined by the swiftest advance of freedom ever seen, is an odd time for doubt. Americans, of all people, should never be surprised by the power of our ideals. Eventually, the call of freedom comes to every mind and every soul. We do not accept the existence of permanent tyranny because we do not accept the possibility of permanent slavery. Liberty will come to those who love it.
Today, America speaks anew to the peoples of the world:
All who live in tyranny and hopelessness can know: The United States will not ignore your oppression, or excuse your oppressors. When you stand for your liberty, we will stand with you.
Democratic reformers facing repression, prison or exile can know: America sees you for who you are -- the future leaders of your free country.
The rulers of outlaw regimes can know that we still believe as Abraham Lincoln did: "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves; and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
The leaders of governments with long habits of control need to know: To serve your people you must learn to trust them. Start on this journey of progress and justice, and America will walk at your side.
And all the allies of the United States can know: We honor your friendship, we rely on your counsel, and we depend on your help. Division among free nations is a primary goal of freedom's enemies. The concerted effort of free nations to promote democracy is a prelude to our enemies' defeat.
Today, I also speak anew to my fellow citizens:
From all of you, I have asked patience in the hard task of securing America, which you have granted in good measure. Our country has accepted obligations that are difficult to fulfill and would be dishonorable to abandon. Yet because we have acted in the great liberating tradition of this nation, tens of millions have achieved their freedom.
And as hope kindles hope, millions more will find it. By our efforts, we have lit a fire as well -- a fire in the minds of men. It warms those who feel its power, it burns those who fight its progress, and one day this untamed fire of freedom will reach the darkest corners of our world.
A few Americans have accepted the hardest duties in this cause -- in the quiet work of intelligence and diplomacy ... the idealistic work of helping raise up free governments ... the dangerous and necessary work of fighting our enemies. Some have shown their devotion to our country in deaths that honored their whole lives, and we will always honor their names and their sacrifice.
All Americans have witnessed this idealism and some for the first time. I ask our youngest citizens to believe the evidence of your eyes. You have seen duty and allegiance in the determined faces of our soldiers. You have seen that life is fragile, and evil is real, and courage triumphs. Make the choice to serve in a cause larger than your wants, larger than yourself, and in your days you will add not just to the wealth of our country but to its character.
America has need of idealism and courage because we have essential work at home -- the unfinished work of American freedom. In a world moving toward liberty, we are determined to show the meaning and promise of liberty.
In America's ideal of freedom, citizens find the dignity and security of economic independence, instead of laboring on the edge of subsistence. This is the broader definition of liberty that motivated the Homestead Act, the Social Security Act and the GI Bill of Rights. And now we will extend this vision by reforming great institutions to serve the needs of our time.
To give every American a stake in the promise and future of our country, we will bring the highest standards to our schools and build an ownership society. We will widen the ownership of homes and businesses, retirement savings and health insurance -- preparing our people for the challenges of life in a free society.
By making every citizen an agent of his or her own destiny, we will give our fellow Americans greater freedom from want and fear and make our society more prosperous and just and equal.
In America's ideal of freedom, the public interest depends on private character -- on integrity and tolerance toward others and the rule of conscience in our own lives. Self-government relies, in the end, on the governing of the self.
That edifice of character is built in families, supported by communities with standards,and sustained in our national life by the truths of Sinai, the Sermon on the Mount, the words of the Koran and the varied faiths of our people. Americans move forward in every generation by reaffirming all that is good and true that came before -- ideals of justice and conduct that are the same yesterday, today and forever.
In America's ideal of freedom, the exercise of rights is ennobled by service and mercy and a heart for the weak. Liberty for all does not mean independence from one another. Our nation relies on men and women who look after a neighbor and surround the lost with love.
Americans, at our best, value the life we see in one another and must always remember that even the unwanted have worth. And our country must abandon all the habits of racism because we cannot carry the message of freedom and the baggage of bigotry at the same time.
From the perspective of a single day, including this day of dedication, the issues and questions before our country are many. From the viewpoint of centuries, the questions that come to us are narrowed and few. Did our generation advance the cause of freedom? And did our character bring credit to that cause?
These questions that judge us also unite us, because Americans of every party and background, Americans by choice and by birth, are bound to one another in the cause of freedom. We have known divisions, which must be healed to move forward in great purposes -- and I will strive in good faith to heal them.
Yet those divisions do not define America. We felt the unity and fellowship of our nation when freedom came under attack, and our response came like a single hand over a single heart. And we can feel that same unity and pride whenever America acts for good, and the victims of disaster are given hope, and the unjust encounter justice, and the captives are set free.
We go forward with complete confidence in the eventual triumph of freedom. Not because history runs on the wheels of inevitability; it is human choices that move events. Not because we consider ourselves a chosen nation; God moves and chooses as he wills.
We have confidence because freedom is the permanent hope of mankind, the hunger in dark places, the longing of the soul. When our Founders declared a new order of the ages, when soldiers died in wave upon wave for a union based on liberty, when citizens marched in peaceful outrage under the banner "Freedom Now" -- they were acting on an ancient hope that is meant to be fulfilled.
History has an ebb and flow of justice, but history also has a visible direction set by liberty and the author of liberty.
When the Declaration of Independence was first read in public and the Liberty Bell was sounded in celebration, a witness said, "It rang as if it meant something." In our time it means something still.
America, in this young century, proclaims liberty throughout all the world and to all the inhabitants thereof. Renewed in our strength -- tested, but not weary -- we are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom.
May God bless you, and may he watch over the United States of America.
TRD2000
01-20-2005, 07:53 PM
just what reich do we live in?
"America will not impose our own style of government on the unwilling"
will the guy ever stop lying?
I admit i havent read it all yet but right from the start it basically says the US is going to take over the world! strange.
"America will not impose our own style of government on the unwilling"
will the guy ever stop lying?
I admit i havent read it all yet but right from the start it basically says the US is going to take over the world! strange.
Tehvisseeus
01-20-2005, 08:06 PM
Ummm trying to democratize other nations is not forcing our type of government on them. Especially because we are trying to let them have as much say in their constitutions as possible
TRD2000
01-20-2005, 08:20 PM
heres an idea.. let them have COMPLETE say in their constitution?
also, why just democracy? what if they want a different form of government?
and whats with, if you are a democratic leader know that america will put you on your seat as the future leader of your country.. if that doesn't scream puppet democratic dictatorship i don't know what does!
also, why just democracy? what if they want a different form of government?
and whats with, if you are a democratic leader know that america will put you on your seat as the future leader of your country.. if that doesn't scream puppet democratic dictatorship i don't know what does!
Heep
01-21-2005, 07:43 AM
also, why just democracy? what if they want a different form of government?
Agreed - not everyone wants democracy, and America has no right whatsoever to insist upon it.
My view? Democracy = (ideally) run by the majority, the majority are morons, thus, Democracy = moronic.
I just haven't thought of anything better yet. :(
Agreed - not everyone wants democracy, and America has no right whatsoever to insist upon it.
My view? Democracy = (ideally) run by the majority, the majority are morons, thus, Democracy = moronic.
I just haven't thought of anything better yet. :(
YogsVR4
01-21-2005, 11:46 AM
:lol: Its fun to watch the losers cry :lol2:
Four more years!!!
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Four more years!!!
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TRD2000
01-23-2005, 02:37 PM
yogs, get over the election, everyone else has!
realise that the monkey in the white house is a complete source of global entertainment.
don't restrict the monkey's stupidity purely to election times.
this thread isn't about the election, if you want to go backwards and discuss it again, dig up one of the election threads! This is about the speach that Georgie Boy gave, and the content within.
realise that the monkey in the white house is a complete source of global entertainment.
don't restrict the monkey's stupidity purely to election times.
this thread isn't about the election, if you want to go backwards and discuss it again, dig up one of the election threads! This is about the speach that Georgie Boy gave, and the content within.
Ridenour
01-23-2005, 04:09 PM
yogs, get over the election, everyone else has!
I think yogs, as with most of us conservatives, ARE over the election. We've accepted the fact that we won.
However, lots of liberals and democrats can't accept that and now they're going on a whining spree about how the next four years are going to be so god-aweful. It's going to take a long time for the democrats to "get over the election", but I assure you, all us Republicans are already over it. :biggrin:
I think yogs, as with most of us conservatives, ARE over the election. We've accepted the fact that we won.
However, lots of liberals and democrats can't accept that and now they're going on a whining spree about how the next four years are going to be so god-aweful. It's going to take a long time for the democrats to "get over the election", but I assure you, all us Republicans are already over it. :biggrin:
TRD2000
01-23-2005, 04:15 PM
well start acting like it and be prepared to discuss current affairs.
sorry, but whatever the outcome of the election there was always going to be new events and positions to discuss, just because it's over isn't a mandate that everything the successful candidate does is right, nor is it cause to suddenly ignore and not discuss their actions. Hitler won elections too, i wonder if you would consider it whining on the part of the jews? I wonder if we should just ignore what he did for the time he was in power because he won an election?
sorry, but whatever the outcome of the election there was always going to be new events and positions to discuss, just because it's over isn't a mandate that everything the successful candidate does is right, nor is it cause to suddenly ignore and not discuss their actions. Hitler won elections too, i wonder if you would consider it whining on the part of the jews? I wonder if we should just ignore what he did for the time he was in power because he won an election?
KustmAce
01-23-2005, 06:10 PM
Nah, the Repubs just dont like to hear criticism of the fuhrer.
Heaven forbid someone disagree with him and his plans. I wonder how long it takes until the most active people in speaking out against him mysteriously disappear one night.
And TRD, democracy is the best because America uses it...duh...
Heaven forbid someone disagree with him and his plans. I wonder how long it takes until the most active people in speaking out against him mysteriously disappear one night.
And TRD, democracy is the best because America uses it...duh...
taranaki
01-23-2005, 07:07 PM
This thread is not about the election.It's about George's hidden agenda for the next four years.
Having already established that the war in Iraq is a shambles, only an utter fool would pursue it any further.The original definition of the mission was a 'war on terrorism'.In practice, this has become,'redefine the word terrorist to include anyone who won't do as they are told,and seize control of their assets'.
The sham government that is about to be foisted off on the Iraqis would collapse without heavily-armed protection from Uncle Sam.So it's a good job that there are no real plans to withdraw from the region.It's in the nature of all politicians to put a lid on their grubbier aspirations in the run up to polling day, but this administration has raised it to an artform.Bush is creating so many enemies around the world that his countrymen will eventally pay dearly for his stupidity.If he doesn't bankrupt his country playing Don Quixote,he'll make it the pariah of the American continent.Israel has already demonstrated that this style of counter-terrorist terrorism achieves no peace,to allow the neocons to drag America back into the Dark Ages will create a new evil superpower for the world to restrain.The traditional values of the US are worth protecting against murderous scumbags.Be sure to uphold your country's proud tradition of nuturing freedom,by not letting it fall into the hands of a man who is determined to be the next world dictator.
Having already established that the war in Iraq is a shambles, only an utter fool would pursue it any further.The original definition of the mission was a 'war on terrorism'.In practice, this has become,'redefine the word terrorist to include anyone who won't do as they are told,and seize control of their assets'.
The sham government that is about to be foisted off on the Iraqis would collapse without heavily-armed protection from Uncle Sam.So it's a good job that there are no real plans to withdraw from the region.It's in the nature of all politicians to put a lid on their grubbier aspirations in the run up to polling day, but this administration has raised it to an artform.Bush is creating so many enemies around the world that his countrymen will eventally pay dearly for his stupidity.If he doesn't bankrupt his country playing Don Quixote,he'll make it the pariah of the American continent.Israel has already demonstrated that this style of counter-terrorist terrorism achieves no peace,to allow the neocons to drag America back into the Dark Ages will create a new evil superpower for the world to restrain.The traditional values of the US are worth protecting against murderous scumbags.Be sure to uphold your country's proud tradition of nuturing freedom,by not letting it fall into the hands of a man who is determined to be the next world dictator.
DGB454
01-24-2005, 06:40 AM
Agreed - not everyone wants democracy, and America has no right whatsoever to insist upon it.
My view? Democracy = (ideally) run by the majority, the majority are morons, thus, Democracy = moronic.
I just haven't thought of anything better yet. :(
Does it realy matter if the majority of a country are morons?(I think you give to little credit to the majority) They are the majority. Shouldn't they be able to run the country as they see fit?
My view? Democracy = (ideally) run by the majority, the majority are morons, thus, Democracy = moronic.
I just haven't thought of anything better yet. :(
Does it realy matter if the majority of a country are morons?(I think you give to little credit to the majority) They are the majority. Shouldn't they be able to run the country as they see fit?
Heep
01-24-2005, 07:08 AM
Does it realy matter if the majority of a country are morons?(I think you give to little credit to the majority) They are the majority. Shouldn't they be able to run the country as they see fit?
BTW, I wasn't talking about the US specifically - the morons are the majority in every country :) Not sure if you thought I was or not but just thought I'd clear that up. Also, just because you're in the majority doesn't mean you're a moron, just means you agree with the morons :)
Maybe the morons should be able to run the country. Maybe it is most representative of what people want. In the end, though - it's still being run by morons.
BTW, I wasn't talking about the US specifically - the morons are the majority in every country :) Not sure if you thought I was or not but just thought I'd clear that up. Also, just because you're in the majority doesn't mean you're a moron, just means you agree with the morons :)
Maybe the morons should be able to run the country. Maybe it is most representative of what people want. In the end, though - it's still being run by morons.
YogsVR4
01-24-2005, 10:10 AM
yogs, get over the election, everyone else has!
realise that the monkey in the white house is a complete source of global entertainment.
don't restrict the monkey's stupidity purely to election times.
this thread isn't about the election, if you want to go backwards and discuss it again, dig up one of the election threads! This is about the speach that Georgie Boy gave, and the content within.
Apperently they have not. The left lost and has gone back to little more then name calling. :loser:
Things are shaping up in Iraq. Social security is finally going to have something done about it. For the first time in many years, federal spending has been held below the rate of inflation. Tax reform will at least go further then a sound bite. Things are on the table and looking good!
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realise that the monkey in the white house is a complete source of global entertainment.
don't restrict the monkey's stupidity purely to election times.
this thread isn't about the election, if you want to go backwards and discuss it again, dig up one of the election threads! This is about the speach that Georgie Boy gave, and the content within.
Apperently they have not. The left lost and has gone back to little more then name calling. :loser:
Things are shaping up in Iraq. Social security is finally going to have something done about it. For the first time in many years, federal spending has been held below the rate of inflation. Tax reform will at least go further then a sound bite. Things are on the table and looking good!
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Heep
01-24-2005, 10:28 AM
Things are shaping up in Iraq. Social security is finally going to have something done about it. For the first time in many years, federal spending has been held below the rate of inflation. Tax reform will at least go further then a sound bite. Things are on the table and looking good!
Looking more and more like America everyday!
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Looking more and more like America everyday!
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
lazysmurff
01-24-2005, 07:36 PM
Things are shaping up in Iraq.
really? funny, ijust read an article about how the iraqi "insurgency" is getting larger and more effective (http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/10704306.htm)
Social security is finally going to have something done about it. you realy believe that? i mean, every election im conscious of promises reform for the ailing social security problem, and every president has failed to do anything significant about it.
For the first time in many years, federal spending has been held below the rate of inflation.i believe this figure doesnt included "homeland security" spending, which im sure includes the military budget. lets work that figure in and see what we get...
Tax reform will at least go further then a sound bite. Things are on the table and looking good!
i seem to remember another bush that promised something about taxes...
really? funny, ijust read an article about how the iraqi "insurgency" is getting larger and more effective (http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/10704306.htm)
Social security is finally going to have something done about it. you realy believe that? i mean, every election im conscious of promises reform for the ailing social security problem, and every president has failed to do anything significant about it.
For the first time in many years, federal spending has been held below the rate of inflation.i believe this figure doesnt included "homeland security" spending, which im sure includes the military budget. lets work that figure in and see what we get...
Tax reform will at least go further then a sound bite. Things are on the table and looking good!
i seem to remember another bush that promised something about taxes...
Raz_Kaz
01-24-2005, 08:06 PM
Things are shaping up in Iraq.
HA! And you base this on what exactly? More people are afraid of voting, more parties are dropping out in fear of death, the insurgency attacks are becoming more fierce and attacking all symbolic people they can find, the US is almost forcing the puppet government to move forward with the elections 'cuz that's what they want, not the people (how ironic)
But yea, I can see how everything is getting better and better in Iaq.
HA! And you base this on what exactly? More people are afraid of voting, more parties are dropping out in fear of death, the insurgency attacks are becoming more fierce and attacking all symbolic people they can find, the US is almost forcing the puppet government to move forward with the elections 'cuz that's what they want, not the people (how ironic)
But yea, I can see how everything is getting better and better in Iaq.
DGB454
01-25-2005, 06:15 PM
Who are the insurgents? Why are they killing Iraqi people?
mellowboy
01-25-2005, 06:24 PM
Who are the insurgents? Why are they killing Iraqi people?
Who are the MOSSADS? Why are they instigating between different ethnic groups in Iraq?
Who are the MOSSADS? Why are they instigating between different ethnic groups in Iraq?
Flatrater
01-25-2005, 06:50 PM
Who are the MOSSADS? Why are they instigating between different ethnic groups in Iraq?
Can you be alittle less cryptic for me?
Can you be alittle less cryptic for me?
KustmAce
01-25-2005, 07:24 PM
Things are on the table and looking good!
Yep. Looking much better. (http://www.comcast.net/News/DOMESTIC//XML/1107_AP_Online_Regional___Middle_East/be6c1153-46b9-409b-844a-505f821a7da8.html) Only 80 more billion for Iraq. Which pushes the number to around DOUBLE initial estimates. 1-2 trillion for the social security reform. And 2.3 trillion in tax cuts.
Yep. Looks like W is doin a great job of cutting spending in half this go around.
Yep. Looking much better. (http://www.comcast.net/News/DOMESTIC//XML/1107_AP_Online_Regional___Middle_East/be6c1153-46b9-409b-844a-505f821a7da8.html) Only 80 more billion for Iraq. Which pushes the number to around DOUBLE initial estimates. 1-2 trillion for the social security reform. And 2.3 trillion in tax cuts.
Yep. Looks like W is doin a great job of cutting spending in half this go around.
lazysmurff
01-25-2005, 11:34 PM
to quote The Economist:
For all the abitious rhetoric, Mr. Bush's agenda is self contradictory. He pledged to restrain government spending, yet proposed a slew of new government programs. He called for making the tax code simpler and fairer, yet he wants to make permanent his tax cuts which have dramatically complicated America's tax system. (in Mr. Bush's first term the tax code has grown by 10,000 pages)
For all the abitious rhetoric, Mr. Bush's agenda is self contradictory. He pledged to restrain government spending, yet proposed a slew of new government programs. He called for making the tax code simpler and fairer, yet he wants to make permanent his tax cuts which have dramatically complicated America's tax system. (in Mr. Bush's first term the tax code has grown by 10,000 pages)
DGB454
01-26-2005, 06:23 AM
Who are the MOSSADS? Why are they instigating between different ethnic groups in Iraq?
Was that your answer? Is this Jepordy?
I'm sure you aren't serious with that answer so I will ask again.
Who are the insurgents? Why are they killing Iraqis?
Was that your answer? Is this Jepordy?
I'm sure you aren't serious with that answer so I will ask again.
Who are the insurgents? Why are they killing Iraqis?
YogsVR4
01-26-2005, 09:24 AM
Yes, things are shapping up in Iraq. :iceslolan You can naysay all you want, but the same bullshit being spewed by you guys was also said about Afghanistan and they had a pretty damn good first election - ever. Iraq is heading down the same road. Will it be perfect? Nobody thinks that.
80 Billion to continue operatations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Sounds like money well spent. Its sure a hell of a lot better then more hadouts to the lazy fuckers around here.
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80 Billion to continue operatations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Sounds like money well spent. Its sure a hell of a lot better then more hadouts to the lazy fuckers around here.
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YogsVR4
01-26-2005, 09:33 AM
really? funny, ijust read an article about how the iraqi "insurgency" is getting larger and more effective (http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/10704306.htm)
Nobody said things were going fantastic, but they are getting better. Iraq will have a better turn out for their election (as a percentage) then the US did. And it'll be certainly more fair then their last one where Saddam got 99.9% of the vote or so.
you realy believe that? i mean, every election im conscious of promises reform for the ailing social security problem, and every president has failed to do anything significant about it.
Incorrect, every president has said that something should be done, but has never actually proposed any solutions. Some rhetoric, and a few ideas bantied about, but no actually policy suggestions. I really hope people who have any math and finance skill really take a look at what SS is doing to them and what the policies would mean to your portfolios (or potential ones). Lastly, it amazes me how much people complain about their tax burden, but aren't as up in arms over SS. SS takes 12.5% of your salary - regardless of how much you make. If your self employed, its 25% (you have to pay the employers share). At best, you get back 1% on that money. What a crap system. Let people keep their money. Let them determine what they want to do with it. If some don't feel comfortable saving for themselves, (aside from being pathetic since anyone with income can save) then stay in SS as it is now. Get your poor return.
i believe this figure doesnt included "homeland security" spending, which im sure includes the military budget. lets work that figure in and see what we get...
You're right. Military expenditures outside the budgetted amount aren't included. However, the pentegon is cutting 60 billion. All other areas of discretionairy spending is being held under the rate of inflation. While this won't turn things around in a year or two, consistently doing that will accomplish two things. The budget will balance itself out and government agencies might just learn to make due with the cash on hand. 2.5 TRILLION should be enough!
i seem to remember another bush that promised something about taxes...
Apples and oranges. I remember Clinton running the first time promising to cut taxes for the middle class and then signing the largest tax increase bill in history.
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Nobody said things were going fantastic, but they are getting better. Iraq will have a better turn out for their election (as a percentage) then the US did. And it'll be certainly more fair then their last one where Saddam got 99.9% of the vote or so.
you realy believe that? i mean, every election im conscious of promises reform for the ailing social security problem, and every president has failed to do anything significant about it.
Incorrect, every president has said that something should be done, but has never actually proposed any solutions. Some rhetoric, and a few ideas bantied about, but no actually policy suggestions. I really hope people who have any math and finance skill really take a look at what SS is doing to them and what the policies would mean to your portfolios (or potential ones). Lastly, it amazes me how much people complain about their tax burden, but aren't as up in arms over SS. SS takes 12.5% of your salary - regardless of how much you make. If your self employed, its 25% (you have to pay the employers share). At best, you get back 1% on that money. What a crap system. Let people keep their money. Let them determine what they want to do with it. If some don't feel comfortable saving for themselves, (aside from being pathetic since anyone with income can save) then stay in SS as it is now. Get your poor return.
i believe this figure doesnt included "homeland security" spending, which im sure includes the military budget. lets work that figure in and see what we get...
You're right. Military expenditures outside the budgetted amount aren't included. However, the pentegon is cutting 60 billion. All other areas of discretionairy spending is being held under the rate of inflation. While this won't turn things around in a year or two, consistently doing that will accomplish two things. The budget will balance itself out and government agencies might just learn to make due with the cash on hand. 2.5 TRILLION should be enough!
i seem to remember another bush that promised something about taxes...
Apples and oranges. I remember Clinton running the first time promising to cut taxes for the middle class and then signing the largest tax increase bill in history.
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fredjacksonsan
01-26-2005, 11:52 AM
I'm in favor of a straight 10% tax and get rid of 80% or the IRS.
It does seem like GW is trying to push the "American Way" on the whole world. Each country should be able to govern themselves with whatever form of government they want.
The US has installed too many puppets already, and should leave well enough alone; I'd think that in Iraq, the democratically elected government won't last more than a couple years after the US troops are gone.
It does seem like GW is trying to push the "American Way" on the whole world. Each country should be able to govern themselves with whatever form of government they want.
The US has installed too many puppets already, and should leave well enough alone; I'd think that in Iraq, the democratically elected government won't last more than a couple years after the US troops are gone.
YogsVR4
01-26-2005, 12:13 PM
The US has installed too many puppets already, and should leave well enough alone; I'd think that in Iraq, the democratically elected government won't last more than a couple years after the US troops are gone.
Sorta like the ones left behind in Germany, Japan, Panama and Kosovo?
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Sorta like the ones left behind in Germany, Japan, Panama and Kosovo?
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fredjacksonsan
01-26-2005, 12:20 PM
Well yeah. :shrug: :)
I was actually making reference to the failures of installed governments; but looking at it that way - that there have been some successes - does make a case for what we're trying to do over there. I just have a pessimistic view of where we're trying to do it; the people of the Middle East think differently than we do here in the west. I believe that the insurgent movement will continue until a "non-American" form of government is installed. Then, a new insurgent group will step forward and engage in destructive behavior until they get what they want. And so on.
I was actually making reference to the failures of installed governments; but looking at it that way - that there have been some successes - does make a case for what we're trying to do over there. I just have a pessimistic view of where we're trying to do it; the people of the Middle East think differently than we do here in the west. I believe that the insurgent movement will continue until a "non-American" form of government is installed. Then, a new insurgent group will step forward and engage in destructive behavior until they get what they want. And so on.
KustmAce
01-26-2005, 02:14 PM
the democratically elected government won't last more than a couple years after the US troops are gone.
A couple years? I give it no more than a month before it collapses and we have to rush troops back in.
A couple years? I give it no more than a month before it collapses and we have to rush troops back in.
TRD2000
01-26-2005, 02:22 PM
ditto, the fighting's gonna continue, although the US may well wait more like TWO months untill they go back in, just to make it look like they are doing a good thing... prob is they created the situation so while it may spiral without them now, they are responsible for fixing it.
lazysmurff
01-26-2005, 02:27 PM
Nobody said things were going fantastic, but they are getting better. Iraq will have a better turn out for their election (as a percentage) then the US did. And it'll be certainly more fair then their last one where Saddam got 99.9% of the vote or so.
i cannot help but disagree with you. casualtie rates are on the rise, as are wounded civilian deaths. attacks against us soldiers are becoming more and more frequent, and our boys are still trying to flush out the insurgency in falluja, with not much luck. if this is "getting better" id hate to see what you call "getting worse". and getting a higher percentage of your population to vote than the US isnt that hard. not the mention voter fraud is going to be insanely rampant. we've been doing this election thing for years and still cant stop it, what makes anyone think iraq will be able to prevent ANY voter fraud this first time around? if all we're shooting for is better than saddam, i feel sorry for the iraqi people.
Incorrect, every president has said that something should be done, but has never actually proposed any solutions.
and georges solution is? privatization? i really dont know what it is, but ive stopped believing that politicians actually gave a shit about old people (beyond their votes in florida)
You're right. Military expenditures outside the budgetted amount aren't included. However, the pentegon is cutting 60 billion. All other areas of discretionairy spending is being held under the rate of inflation. While this won't turn things around in a year or two, consistently doing that will accomplish two things. The budget will balance itself out and government agencies might just learn to make due with the cash on hand. 2.5 TRILLION should be enough!
thats if george can keep his monetary spending under control for four years. cutting 60 billion from the pentagon is a good thing, until you turn around and ask for 80 billion more for iraq. net spending: 20 billion.
the thing is, im all for conservative fiscal policy. our government spends WAY too much money. but george isnt exactly the poster boy for monetary tight-ness. and his policies are counter intuitive. He creates and promises to create social programs (some of them so big, they've been compared to roosevelt) yet keeps cutting taxes. spending more and more money, while taking in less and less just seems stupid.
i cannot help but disagree with you. casualtie rates are on the rise, as are wounded civilian deaths. attacks against us soldiers are becoming more and more frequent, and our boys are still trying to flush out the insurgency in falluja, with not much luck. if this is "getting better" id hate to see what you call "getting worse". and getting a higher percentage of your population to vote than the US isnt that hard. not the mention voter fraud is going to be insanely rampant. we've been doing this election thing for years and still cant stop it, what makes anyone think iraq will be able to prevent ANY voter fraud this first time around? if all we're shooting for is better than saddam, i feel sorry for the iraqi people.
Incorrect, every president has said that something should be done, but has never actually proposed any solutions.
and georges solution is? privatization? i really dont know what it is, but ive stopped believing that politicians actually gave a shit about old people (beyond their votes in florida)
You're right. Military expenditures outside the budgetted amount aren't included. However, the pentegon is cutting 60 billion. All other areas of discretionairy spending is being held under the rate of inflation. While this won't turn things around in a year or two, consistently doing that will accomplish two things. The budget will balance itself out and government agencies might just learn to make due with the cash on hand. 2.5 TRILLION should be enough!
thats if george can keep his monetary spending under control for four years. cutting 60 billion from the pentagon is a good thing, until you turn around and ask for 80 billion more for iraq. net spending: 20 billion.
the thing is, im all for conservative fiscal policy. our government spends WAY too much money. but george isnt exactly the poster boy for monetary tight-ness. and his policies are counter intuitive. He creates and promises to create social programs (some of them so big, they've been compared to roosevelt) yet keeps cutting taxes. spending more and more money, while taking in less and less just seems stupid.
fredjacksonsan
01-26-2005, 04:41 PM
ditto, the fighting's gonna continue, although the US may well wait more like TWO months untill they go back in, just to make it look like they are doing a good thing... prob is they created the situation so while it may spiral without them now, they are responsible for fixing it.
I think once the US has pulled out, they should STAY out. Because if they've left the Iraqis to self rule, they should be allowed to self rule. The US had its civil war (with all the things war is infamous for) and therefore any other country should be allowed to have theirs.
I think once the US has pulled out, they should STAY out. Because if they've left the Iraqis to self rule, they should be allowed to self rule. The US had its civil war (with all the things war is infamous for) and therefore any other country should be allowed to have theirs.
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