building a motor, need some input...

alright here's what my situation is... i'll building a 350 in my engine overhaul class so the motor is going completely down to the bare block. When the motor is done it will be going in a 82-92 camaro, sorry couldn't remember if that's third or fourth gen. anyways the thing is i can't afford IROC or in other words high risk insurance (something about teenagers with a V8) so the motor will be going in a V6 camaro (preferably 5-speed). First question, how hard would this swap be? I'm gonna have about $3500-4000 to put into the motor. i want something with some kick, first question is would i be able to build a motor with some kick for this kind of cash. Also will it be worth my trouble to scrounge up an old IROC and do the whole fuel injection mess? or should i just slap on a carb and call it a day? These are my first questions more will follow, believe me. Thanks for the replies in advance.

3000-4000 to put into this motor dam id say if u had the motor 700-1000 would get u some dam good power if u spent it right. 3000-4000 if u got the motor already will def be a fast car. remember v8's are a HELL of alot cheaper to build than hondas, they just weigh more.

82-92 is third gen. I'm doing the same swap on my car right now (I will post an update in a few hours). It's a shitload of work. As far as the money goes, you should be good. I have spent $2500 so far, not including tools, and my engine is just about done. My engine is almost identical the the Edelbrock Performer E-Tec crate engine, which cost $7000, and I only spent $2k (check their website). But if you are puttin it into a V6, plan on getting a new transmisison because it wont bolt to the V6 transmission (apparently there are V6 700R4s and V8 700R4s). I am also planning on getting a posi-trac rear end. Chances are your V6 doesn't have one either. I'm going with a carb, fuel injection is a whole lot more expensive. And I like that carbs are easier to tune.

Just a basic rebuild, Vortec heads + machine work, hypereutectic pistons, new cam, roller rockers, intake, carb or EFI, 2.5" dual exhaust, headers, and all the other goodies and you will still have plenty left over for the conversion itself. I dont know what it takes to convert but it being a Gen I motor and all it cant be too bad.

i have an 81 camaro and i built a 350 v-8 with my paper route money and if you know what your doing you can get alot of power out of a 350. $2000 spent on my motor and its making about 350 hp and a cheap way to get horse power is through the intake and carb. I personally went with an Air Gap from edelbrock and it gets excellent throttle responce.

If you are doing the V6 to V8 swap the key thing is to find a wrecked V8 doner car, and get all the conversion parts youll need off of it. Ill let instantkevin fill you in on those fun parts.

as far as the engine build, i have one key question, do you need to pass emissions?

ok, here's some more details. i'm probably going carb, instead of the fuel injection obviously because of the headaches. I live in missouri, the car i will be purchasing has a clear title, so i don't think i will get checked anywhere. (i don't think emissions will be a problem) This will be a weekend car, that hopefully will kick a lil. Some details for you really knowledgable gearheads (i'm one too, so don't be offended just minus the really part) the block casting number on the engine is 3970010 it's got a 4 bolt main and that's as far as i've gotten. This whole project is a project for my engine overhaul class, so currently i'm tearing apart the engine right now. So the swap isn't really a big deal right now, building the engine is #1 priority. So if you guys could throw in some input about what a should do with my cash to make this thing really scream that would be great, and i've also got some pics, but not real sure how to post'em. hope this better helps you answer some of my questions, keep the info coming.

That is the same engine cast I have in my '73 Camaro. It too is the 4 bolt main version. You do need to know if the car needs to pass emissons. I dont have to worry because I am smog exempt. Smog can be a real headache if you want to put heads on other then the L98 heads. I dont know how it works if one were to take vortecs and put them into a Camaro. I know if you put vortecs into say a 75 Chevrolet pickup you have to put all the smog equiptment from the same year truck as the heads. Dont worry though L98 heads are good heads too and are far superior to the smog heads of the 1970s and early 80s. Avoid 70s smog heads, they can put out good flow numbers but have horrible combustion charaterisitics and will lose 20-30ftlbs of torque throughout the entire RPM range that's 31 hp at 5500rpm!

Do Not Use 305 Heads!!!

i don't think i'll have to worry about emissions, i mean no one is actually going to check it. Also how do you post pics, it keeps telling me my pic files are too big. I only was gonna post one pic, it mentioned something about compressing the pic files. How would i do that? Also i think i was gonna order some dart heads, also any opinions on my head choice please let me know. thanks.

If you want it to "really scream" remember that all of the power is in the cylinder heads (assuming all the other things are in place: intake, headers, cam, etc). Choose the best heads that your budget will allow. The best heads would be those that flow the max. amount of air, ON AVERAGE (emphasis on 'average' - not max lift flow), for the amount of valve lift that you will be running. I'm going with Vortec heads (per 89IROC's recommendation) cause they were the least expensive and gave the best flow for my price range. If you have money to spend go with AFR (www.airflowresearch.com) heads. If you want Vortec I would call Tri-State Cylinder Heads 812-421-0095. They sell all types of heads, that they completely re-work for street and race applications. I bought mine from them and Chris really knew what the hell he was talking about. Don't forget to match the intake and cam as far as their operating/RPM range goes, manufacturers will list what RPM range they are made to perform well in.

As far as the swap goes, the only necessities that you will need (alteast those that have occured to me so far) are: relocation of the engine mounts (requires drilling or welding), new and beefed up transmission (the old V6 tranny won't bolt up to the 350 -so I'm told, I haven't investigated myself, but I'm planning on doing it anyway). The stock V8 700R4 tranny will call it quits around 300HP.

Here are some links you might find useful:
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/41598/

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy

http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=239172&highlight=700r4+bellhousing

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0502_swap/

Thanks for all the input, now i need some more. Also thanks for the reccomended websites, read them all they were great. Ok i think i've come to some conclusions on what i want, let me know your suggestions or opinions. I was looking at www.summitracing.com at some of the rotating assemblies, and there is one with either Scat or Eagle 4340 forged crank, manley 4340 forged steel H-beam rods, forged aluminum JE/SRP domed pistons, and sealed power piston rings, it also comes with clevite H-bearings for crank and rods. It also says it's internally balanced. The entire kit costs $1799.95, good deal/bad deal whatcha think? And on top of that i was looking at a set of AFR 195cc aluminum heads for about $1350.00.(the heads are assembled with valve springs, retainers and valves) Quick question, what is the difference between internally balanced and externally balanced? Ok now just tell me what you think? thanks for the replies in advance.

Is this going to be a 383 or a 350? AFR 190cc Heads are awesome. The 180cc heads are another set to look at. Chevy High Performace uses these heads all the time. They used a pair of 180s to replace a set of vortec heads and they brought the horsepower up 50hp and kept the all torque without any changes other than the intake which had to be changed becuase the vortecs have a different manifold bolt pattern/style. However, both the intakes were RPM Air Gap manifolds. Either way AFRs can't be beaten, except in price.

I would go with a 383 but i'm not sure how bad that would mess up my rod/stoke/ratio, do you know what i'm talking about? But if it's still a reliable engine then a 383 would be great. Also what type of machine work would need to be done to the block for a 383?

What length rods are you going to install? if you use even the 5.7" rods you are still at a decent 1.52:1 ratio. If you install a set of 6" rods you'll increase the R/L ratio to 1.6:1 which about that of a stock 350. Remember as you increase the stroke that means you wont need to rev to make as much power and you wont need as good of a R/L ratio. But for the money you cant beat displacement for power even with a worse R/L ratio.

oh i forgot to ask running 93 octane gas what is about the highest possible compression i would want to run? And also what type of machine work would need to be done to the block for a 383?

With aluminum heads 10.5:1 is about the max. With Iron heads your are safe with 9.5:1. With an agreessive cam you can get away with a little more compression due to the scavenging effect of the cam.

I am running about 9.86:1 with my iron heads, camel hump heads.

ok, i finally figured out how to post some pics of my teardown progress. so here they are...

engine before teardown...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0139.jpg

engine almost stripped...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0161.jpg

heads, combustion chamber...pretty crappy...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0157.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0159.jpg

Only thing left is the crank, rod #4 had a spun bearing...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/24bda880.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/40242196.jpg

Now just my work area and some misc. teardown parts...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0160.jpg

That's all i have for now i'll keep you posted with the pics as she comes back to life.

almost forgot the best part...
my 4 bolt main.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0148.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0147.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0142.jpg

Ok, that's all, for now.

When making a 383 you will either need to buy a small base circle cam or you will need to grind down the cam side of the rod and rod bolt. You will also need to purchase a stroker oil pan. Depending on what rods you use you may have to notch out the bottom of the cylinders.

sounds like a good setup. there's nothing wrong with going with a 383... it's a very common mod for 350s. And if you are buying new internals anyway, then it's something that you should atleast think about. Those AFR's are defintely good ones to go with, and with the $800 that you'll have left, you can get a good cam, intake manifold, and carb. I would go with a 750cfm carb (especially if you make it a 383 stroker).

Alright, finally got some more progress pics. so here they are.
This is after i got my block out of the hot tank. Ordering parts friday.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0222.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0221.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0220.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0219.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0218.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/96civic_buildup/100_0217.jpg

still gotta get it bored .030 over, and scrape some gasket surface off. but there's my progress.

Awesome motor. I just wanted to let you know that the engine block you have is a good one. As you can see there are casting numbers underneath the timing chain cover. Well you see the numbers 10 and 20? Well these numbers let one know that the block has both additional nickel and tin casted within the engine. Engines with these added metals are least prone to cracking and wear slower then 350s without the additional nickel and tin. If the block were to just have one of these numbers it would have just the added nickel and not tin. Which is still a preferable block. Just thought I would let you know. Good luck with the engine rebuild. I am going to miss my Camaro soon enough.

Looking good so far Civic, Keep up the good work. John