civic w/SC, why not?

I have a 98 civic EX coupe, and i am looking at making this car unique (still a daily driver).
I have been looking at supercharging my car and hopfully putting down some respectable numbers.( for a small engine that is)

the car has a stock engine- D16Y8 Vtec 1.6L
i have not been able to dyno it yet but it is suposedly able to put out 127 HP and about 107 lbs of torque.

I have read some stuf about a guy with the same car. he put a Jackson Racing SC and said he was running 142 HP at the wheels. he did not mention anything about torque. i think he was only runnig about 6 psi. he said it was a good street car still but i do a little street racing.

would i have any other options asides from jackson racing. it is hard to find a SC for a car like mine

with a light car like a civic would this make a good street car.
i have set a personal goal to be able to beat a 5.0 rustang w/NO SPRAY!
or am a just crazy. :confused:

lol, okay i dont think your civic makes 127HP at the wheels, maybe at the crank but not the wheels. Correct me if im wrong though. Also in that case 6 psi should have given him alot more than 15HP. Im not sure about a civic being a car to make into a good street car, its just tooo slow to start out with. The slower the car is to start, the more money it takes to get it fast. But also to each his own, dont let anyone tell you cant mod a car you like to do what you want. Im sure if you put a supercharger on the car you would be into the mid to low 15's 1320. I dont think that will beat a 5.0 though.

Typically a 6psi setup should yield 40% gains. So 142whp is about correct given you are putting out 127BHP. Other options include IHE(which gives you no chance of beating a 5.0), nitrous(depends on how much you spray and how well it is tuned), and turbocharge(once again, requires proper tuning. I believe there are kits now, but if not some fabricating is in order.) My choice would be the turbocharger. I choose this because whatever turbocharger you select is going to be capable of at leat 250whp. Next is going to be the ability to intercool unlike the JR SC. Lastly is going to be the flexibility of selecting a power curve. You actually have the ability to select where you start and stop(if you want to) making power. You can simply get a boost controller and select how much boost you want to run. Plus the intercooler is going to make power much safer.

Any of these ways are going to cost a little money. Cheapest is going to be the IHE. Cheapes power adder is going to be the nitrous. Most expensive is probably gonna be the turbocharger kit. The SC is going to reqire choice 1 to make any serious power. Turbo kit will probably come with a filter and require an exhaust later on.

Can't beat the quiet power of a turbocharged engine along with the turbo sounds though. Good luck on whatever you choose. For the record though, superchargers heat up the intake charge just as much as a turbochager will given they have the same efficiency. The lower the efficiency, the higher the intake temp.

Don't forget, alot of people that juice up front wheel drive cars, forget to stiffen up the rear end.

Shocks, struts, whatever, make the back end STIFF. When you put alot of horsepower and torque to a front drive car, the weight transfer reduces your traction BIGTIME, stiff rear=no back body role.

Then again, this usually applies to front drive cars with more then 200 hp.

on these forums most of the time everyone will tell you to forget about superchargers and go with a turbo. they are right. you will see better torque curves and jsut more torque from the turbo (unless you plan on launching at 2k). if you want to supercharge, go ahead. dont let everyone tell you what to do with YOUR car, just make sure you do a lot of research before hand.
im gonna have to disagree with nissanfanatic about the efficiency of supers and turbos being the same. the supercharger will heat up the air more than a turbo and teh turbo can be intercooled. i dont know if the jackson unit is a centrifugal blower but if it is not then you wont be able to intercool, but if it is then the compressor might be as efficient as a turbo. dont forget that you will be using some of your already meager 107 ft/lbs to turn that supercharger so you might not get the response you want out of that unit. i personally am not a fan of belt driven blowers on any engine but especially not on little ones.

ok someone explain to me why a turbocharger doesnt heat up the air as much as a supercharger? Cause i thought something that gets so hot it has to be cooled by engine oil and that it can get glowing red hot while running would heat the air up more than a supercharger. Cause my supercharger never gets to hot to touch, i doubt you can say the same thing for your turbos. YOu can safely run 7-8 PSI with my supercharger without an intercooler, i know you cant say the same thing for your turbos.

There are lots of kits out there that run more than 7psi with a non-intercooled turbo (98-03 Grand Prix for example). The pre 86 Grand Nationals had no intercooler and ran boost in the mid teens. It is true that you cannot run as much boost on a turbo as a centrifugal supercharger for the same reason you can't with a positive displacement supercharger. A turbo and positive displacement supercharger start making their boost at lower engine speeds which means more torque which means higher cilinder pressure which means more prone to detonation.

The part of the turbo that can get red hot and needs to be cooled by engine oil, that you can't touch is the turbine side. The intake air runs through the compressor side which is only shaft connected to the turbine side.

Grand Prix GTP is supercharged with a M90 Eaton blower, not a turbo. As for turbo parts, i didnt know that, i dont know much about turbos.

The GTP comes with the Eaton you refer to. I was refering to a kit that was designed for the regular Grand Prix. It is a turbo with no intercooler and claims something like 350Hp. The GTP is factory rated at 240Hp.

well anytime you compress a gas it will heat up so if a turbo and a super had the same compressor then they would heat the same. but since there will never be a turbo and super with the same compressor you have to look at compressor efficiencys. a more efficient compressor will heat air less. thats how a turbo can heat the charge less than a super. now with a centrifugal supercharger, it can have a compressor as efficient as a turbos.

there are a million sc vs turbo threads where all of this as well as a bunch of misinformation has been discussed so i would check them if you wanted to learn about either. i was jsut giving my opinion on what i would do if i were to boost a tiny engine like his civic.

Turbos are capable of running more than 7psi non-intercooled because typically they are usually more efficient than a roots type compressor. Better efficiency=cooler intake charge.

Run a screw type supercharger. Less temperature rise than a centrifugal compressor(turbo or SC), no 'lag' time.

so you think a SC would be a helpless cause due the the better yield of a turbo.
for the monent i am planning of strengthening the internals (rods, cams.........) any recomendations on what mods to make first and the company.
I have heard of people runnig 9-11 psi an stock internals with the same SOHC engine i have, but it just doesn't sound safe.
would a turbo give me better top end?

Some of the drag classes are considering allowing turbos again and it has the supercharger and nitrous guys whining. Ever wonder why turbos and superchargers have never been allowed to compete strait up? In classes that turbos are allowed they are weight penalized. In drag racing the rules even the playing field and leave you questioning which power adder to use. On the street there are no rules and there is no question which power adder to use.

For the torque difference a turbo creates it's way worth the lag.

this thread should be closed its turning into a turbo vs Sc war again.

The thread starter asked the question!

I did,
i was interested in a SC because it is the road less taken on my type of car.
but eveyone seems to think it is not a good choice for the power i am looking for.

due you guys think this is a good site to buy a turbo kit
it give you more options.
But would it still be bolt on?
http://www.turbocalculator.com/sale-turbokits.php

There are other ways to gain horsepower other than supercharging and turbocharging, but you have to have the money to invest in it. Simply changing things in your cars computer with a computer tuner can give you some horsepower and torque. Things to do with drivetrain can give you gains in torque AND horsepower. simple intake, exhaust and fuel modifications can gain horsepower. performance pulleys surprisingly give you horsepower and torque, because they are lighter, thus requiring less power to use them. Just by simply changing things on your motor that carry alot of weight can give you horsepower. Lightening the flywheel and clutch will give you horsepower, if you do it right. too light and you loose power and gain more problems. Talk to alot of honda technicians and people who have done all motor tuning. Doing all of this plus adding a supercharger, or turbo, can help you get to smoking a stock 5.0 stang. It is possible. Stock 5.0 runs just over 16 in the quarter. if you can get at least low 15s you can probably take on a 5.0. Have fun with whatever you do.

^^great advice^^
I had planned on new pullies, cams, cam lifters, and some computer stuff. if the $ is there i would get new rods also.
is a high flow exost require or would a high flow cat be enough. when i got the car my dad put a meineke regular exost. so its not exactly a stock system and it cost about $300-400. is it worth another $600 to get a diffrent exost. i will check the one that i have and see exactly what type it is. it may be fine for what i am doing.

Stock 5.0 runs just over 16 in the quarter. if you can get at least low 15s you can probably take on a 5.0. Have fun with whatever you do.
it is good to see that someone ells does not think the 5.0 are god.

if i were you, i would really go the forced induction route. Ive seen people with engines about your size spend over 2,000 dollars on exhaust, intake, headers, pullies, rods, pistons, and all the little extras and see an increase in their 1320. Unless your engine is very restrictive right now, which i doubt it is since you get great gas mileage, those other mods wont do a whole lot. Just the thing to remember, to make power, you must first have power. Ever hear the saying theirs to replacement for displacement? Well thats true, and thats exactly what forced induction will do. Your engine will increase its displacement and increase its power. Then afterwards all the little mods you do like exhaust, pullies, port n polish, will have a much greater effect on the performance of the car. You spend a 1,000 bucks on exhaust, intake, headers, pullies, and clutch, ill almost guarantee you wont be more than .5 tenths of a second faster than before. Which is a nice gain, ill admit. But for say 1500-2000 bucks, you will be atleast 1 second faster, and then later if you do those other mods, you will be another second faster. And all those people who think hondas respond very well to mods dont realize that a butt dyno doesnt count.

if you just want to have fun driving your car i would go with suspension, LSD, clutch, flywheel, and rollbar with racing seats with five point harnessess. not really even any hp mods but if your jsut going for drag racing, go with forced induction.

if you just want to have fun driving your car i would go with suspension, LSD, clutch, flywheel, and rollbar with racing seats with five point harnessess. not really even any hp mods but if your jsut going for drag racing, go with forced induction.

LOL, no offense but this is why cars like this become specs in my rear view mirror. FI isn't just for drag racing.

i know that, i hate drag racing. im jsut saying that for a fun car to drive those are good mods to start with. not to mention really good autocross mods. also forced induction is the most hp gain for the buck. its great for any kind of racing, but for drag racing its mostly about power. i think you may have just misinterpreted my post.

also im looking at your signature and you have almost the same setup as my friends daytona. he runs about 25 psi but hes also on his second block and third set of pistons.

I guess.

Is he using T1 blocks? I'm using a T2 block, they are stouter. Also I'm using a cast T1 crank which lessens stress on the main caps.
I'm using stock Cast Mahle pistons, I have cracked one recently that I just replaced but thats it. I switched to a G head instead of the swirl head because it has larger combustion chambers to lower compression so I can still run 22 PSI on pump gas.

What kind of pistons is he running? Is he running any kind of custom ECU? What kind of IC is he running?
My ECU runs full timing, no knock retard at all.

due you guys think this is a good site to buy a turbo kit
it give you more options.
But would it still be bolt on?
http://www.turbocalculator.com/sale-turbokits.php

Thats pretty good, $600 for a turbo and manifold isn't bad. Yeah everything will bolt up but don't forget fuel management.

Tuning is going to be the biggest factor in how much power you make and how long it lasts. If you turbo and go with larger injectors and a piggyback, get a wideband O2 sensor. I'm not sure what kind of timing people run or how to adjust it on your car, but generally you would retard .5 degrees for every 1psi of boost. Best thing to do is put it on a dyno and let the pros handle it.

FI is a great thing, but can become an ugly thing when stuff starts breaking. My advice, run a very low boost setup(like 5psi) for a little while so you can get used to stuff failing. Don't make your first run a 9 or 10psi run and realize you forgot to set timing back.

my friend is using the T2 block and im almost positive a T2 crank. he had his motor rebuilt and the place that did it put in hypereutectic (sp?) pistons so when he detonated, the first piston had a couple chunks out of it. we both work at Wiseco so he just got some good forged ones. not sure what ecu, maybe stock. he and my other friend (87 shadow turbo 2 also about 25lbs) i might have heard them talking about using a diode or resistor i think in one of the wires from something to the ecu (might be entirely wrong). also not sure what head.

his name is nick (87 daytona) and the other kid is adam (87 daytona, 87 shadow, ? glhs) i think they are both on the turbo dodge forums not on automotiveforums though.

sorry for making this so long, I know it doesnt belong here.

I'll PM you to take it off the thread.