american muscle

Hey all,

just in case some of us are worried about the lack of american performance today, go out to the news stand and get the Febuary 2005 Motortrend, made my day :)

340hp dodge charger
500hp Viper GTS
400hp Caddy CTS-V
400hp GTO
425hp Chrysler Srt8

a breakdown on the next ZO6, my new wet dream car till the next camaro comes out.

a first impression of the new cobalt SS. which might well become my next daily driver to keep the IROC safe from highway nuts.

anyway, made me happy, thought yall might get a kick out of it.

The Charger is a joke. Just a 300M in Dodge skin. Plus it has 4 doors! The new Z06 is one hell of a car just a little on the expensive side. 500hp, 427ci, and a whole lot of fast and nimble. The cobalt is interesting little car. Yeah the camaro needs to return so those Mustang guys can shut up! That new 400hp GTO that pulls 13.3... Nice. Just need to remake the car into an american car so it doesn't weigh 3800 pounds!

the cobalt huh...i know a cavaler when i see one, u couldnt give me that thing what a joke, at this rate all my ford buddies are gonna clown me under the table im sad for chevy because someone needs to be ashamed!

The cheapest thing on that list (besides the cobalt which is a joke) looks to be the GTO, but I don't know how much the Chargers are going to go far and the GTO is a 30-35 thousand dollar car new. American muscle is improving, but they need to start making affordable american muscle.

Rob

i dont think i would want the gto either... not only is it a grand am grand prix knockoff but how the hell come it doesnt have dual exaust?? the 2 pipes next to eachother is gayer than hell!

hows the cobalt a joke???, its ages ahead of the cav, and looks 10x better. according to motor trend the cobalt SS is the quickest front wheel drive car they have tested in the past 3 years. also the interior quality is years ahead of the cheap plastic that was offerd in the cav. i know you guys dont care unless its v8 rwd but at least give it a chance, i would rather drive a SS then a civic

i dont think i would want the gto either... not only is it a grand am grand prix knockoff but how the hell come it doesnt have dual exaust?? the 2 pipes next to eachother is gayer than hell!

:iamwithst

cobalt a joke??? dude, im seriously looking to get one after a few years to replace the IROC as my daily driver. first thing of course is to take off that rear spoiler. as far as its looks, i personally like it alot more than the last design cavalier, but dude, check the stats...

0-60 in 6 seconds
1/4mile in 14.5 @ 98.2 (as fast as or faster than my '89 350 IROC)
60-0 in 115 ft
cornering is .89g's
slalom speed is 69 mph (faster than the base vette)
Better lateral acceleration than a VW R32
Faster 0-60 than the mini cooper S
better braking 60-0 than a WRX

out of a supercharged (not turbo) 2.0L four banger. hell im impressed. gotta remember guys, it wasnt meant to be a camaro, and i certainly dont see it as one. But for an american sport compact thats damn impressive.

as far as ford clowning us under the table, the only thing they have thats fast is the mustang and possibly the focus SVT. They sure as shit dont have anything that will run with the vette, nothing to match the caddy in its class, the GTO is steppin up its game, hell, im optimistic at where this is going, im a bit surprised at how pessimistic yall are being. Yeah i agree that the charger should have been more true to its roots, but its not a bad car. and in todays day and age, i would have expected a 200hp V6 in it rather than the 340hp V8 it got. HP is up, design is getting better (Arguably) and the camaro will be back in 2007, life is good in my opinion.

Hey iroc , did you see the super charged one ? What's the specs on that thing , I've been thinking about this too.

those specs are the supercharged one (aka the SS). it runs 205hp

Yeah I read the same Motortrend I am very impressed with the cobalt ss, Z06 vette, GTO, 300M SRT-8, and the Cadillac. Quite impressed! The Charger has a cool engine, if that says anything, but in my opinion not that interesting.

And what size of engine is that coming out of ?

Because mazda is going to release a 275Hp turbo 2.3 ( 4 banger obviously ) And I was wondering if the cobalt was better but it seems not.Maybe i will stick with the mazdaspeed 6.

Hold onto your hats...The rumor mill says Chevy may re-release the.....NOMAD...The grocery getter with an LS!/LS2 engine, 2 door wagon.

i have been interested in a cobalt for awhile and i think too many people are writing it off too fast. so maybe its cavalier-esque but its still one sweet looking ride and the numbers omg the numbers these two really stuck out to me

0-60 in 6 seconds(can uj think of a better way to spend 6 seconds?)
1/4mile in 14.5 @ 98.2 (as fast as or faster than a '89 350 IROC)

cobalt a joke??? dude, im seriously looking to get one after a few years to replace the IROC as my daily driver. first thing of course is to take off that rear spoiler. as far as its looks, i personally like it alot more than the last design cavalier, but dude, check the stats...

0-60 in 6 seconds
1/4mile in 14.5 @ 98.2 (as fast as or faster than my '89 350 IROC)
60-0 in 115 ft
cornering is .89g's
slalom speed is 69 mph (faster than the base vette)
Better lateral acceleration than a VW R32
Faster 0-60 than the mini cooper S
better braking 60-0 than a WRX

out of a supercharged (not turbo) 2.0L four banger. hell im impressed. gotta remember guys, it wasnt meant to be a camaro, and i certainly dont see it as one. But for an american sport compact thats damn impressive.

as far as ford clowning us under the table, the only thing they have thats fast is the mustang and possibly the focus SVT. They sure as shit dont have anything that will run with the vette, nothing to match the caddy in its class, the GTO is steppin up its game, hell, im optimistic at where this is going, im a bit surprised at how pessimistic yall are being. Yeah i agree that the charger should have been more true to its roots, but its not a bad car. and in todays day and age, i would have expected a 200hp V6 in it rather than the 340hp V8 it got. HP is up, design is getting better (Arguably) and the camaro will be back in 2007, life is good in my opinion.

LOL it pulled the same cornering numbers as a GN. Who says they can't handle :icon16:

y2icon Nice sig and, I agree with 89 GM is coming out with some nice cars. But can we hold out till 07. Still 2 years away.

thanks gold i love that avatar should be your sig

gm should bring back some more classics.
for some reason i feel we will not see the camaro til 08. i just have a bad feeling something will go wrong.
anyone think we will see a cobalt camaro and vet commerical?

ok....im not a total ass, the numbers are great for that little car i never took a look at athe numbers i seemed to have a bit of a stomach cramp everytime i saw the thing and looked the other way ( because in my eyes the cobolt was a druged up cav.) but like i said the numbers speak for themselves. and while im at it i did see the new gto on tv last night and not only did it have the pipes on both sides but i think it was a 2 door [high five to chevy] im just sick of them turning good ideas into your moms everyday driver looks do count for something. you can supercharge a quest throw a nitrouse system in it and make it run great times but the bottom line is, its still a damn mini van!! thats the point i was trying to make. the numbers are great on all of those rides rs, but can we get the great sports car look to go with it?

the Cobalt SS actually does look like a good ride, but it doesnt appeal to my taste.. i just cant shake the little brother to the Corvette theme.. and i think sometime we will see a commercial with GM's middle child.. all i have to say is that the 07 Camaro better have somethin special, because i dont like the route most car companies are going these days.. the charger and GTO werent a sedan and should never have been made into one.. that's just my opinion, and if things keep up, the corvette will die a 4 door boat..

the gto is a coupe, its only a 2 door

but it looks like a fat grand prix.. lol

i'm only sad about its power for its looks...

yall do realize that camaros are 2 door sedans right????? check your registration if you dont believe me.

The fact is, the old muscle cars were defined by being family cars (aka grocery getters, minivans take your pick) that the dealerships put massive engines into, and firmer suspensions. well, look at the GTO, even if it does look like a grand prix, that they put a big engine into, and a firmer suspention, if you ask me, its the exact same spirt of the old muscle cars. no they dont have the same attitude. and no cars like the cobalt arent for everyone, thats why there are more than one model of each. I also agree that after seeing cars like the Impalla reduced to front wheel drive V6 cars i was very worried, but you have to look at GM management, when the '94-'96 B-body was killed, and turned into what it is now, almost all of GM managment were (and i mean this as no offence) women. These women were more concerned with grocery getters, saftey, and basicly all the stereotypical anti testosterone stuff. Well, thats not how it is anymore, new GM management is responceable for all the cars we are talking about. You have to remember that change dosnt happen over night, Its far to complicated for that, but GM is doing a drastic turnaround as far as market image and product offering is concerned, This dosnt mean that performance progress has stopped, this is the first step, and for me that holds bright hope for the future, say 2007 :) call me an optimist.

Damnit it beats my Mini cooper S

And what size of engine is that coming out of ?

Because mazda is going to release a 275Hp turbo 2.3 ( 4 banger obviously ) And I was wondering if the cobalt was better but it seems not.Maybe i will stick with the mazdaspeed 6.
The cobalt is a lot cheaper then the Mazdaspeed 6 and is faster then the 6. The Mazdaspeed 6 pulls a 6.2 while the Cobalt SS pulls a 6 flat. The Mazdaspeed 6 is not very impressive. The cobalt SS is 22,000 with the Mazdaspeed 6 going to be 28,000.

i love the dodge magnum it looks great but at the end of the day its still a station wagon! this is why we shouldn't jump on the i hate the cobalt bandwagon. it might be compact or sub-compact but its going to take away from sales of imports. more money for gm could mean more money for new camaros. i am like rs and optimistic that GM can turn it all around and come out on top again

i have heard some good things about the cobalt, its a sharp and sporty car, it isnt a granny and grocery car.

If the new camaro doesn't come out in 07 i'm going to buy me a 67 chevelle. but i'm praying that a new camaro comes out

very good point y2icon, never even thought of it that way. as far as the sales stolen from import sport compacts helping out the camaro.

the '05 GTO is incredibly badass, and i don't see how you guys down it because it doesn't have stand out body style, the GTO of the muscle car days stands out and looks aggressive to us because we didn't live in that time... at the time that was a very ordinary looking car. i, personally was one of the few to love the '04 GTO, but the '05 has new hood nostrils, dual exhaust(exiting out both sides), and 400hp!! and if it isn't aggressive enough looking for you, get the autocross package, which has a redone front end w/ better looking grilles, meaner fascia, different rear spoiler, and dual exhaust with dual tips. Not to mention the GTO raped the new Mustang in all performance aspects.

the cobalt also doesn't need to be downed like that, it is our best competition with the undeniable stronghold by the japanese automakers especially in the compact car area. not to mention it performs well for the compact car area, actually exceptionally well.

i personally have never had a problem with the hiatus of the camaro, the camaro sales were so weak in its last years that a new restyling was not gonna be able to save it. a few years down, completely new style, and dramatic reentrance to the competition will probably land the camaro very good sales.

just my :2cents: guys

I was wondering if anyone had seen an article that i read on ls1tech about pontiac stuffing the LS-4 into a Grand Prix. If I can remember right, the LS-4 is 300hp, I also think that this came out at SEMA. But im not sure...

What is an LS4???

do you mean LS2?

Lt4?

#2???

dont think they would be putting the LT4 into a modern car, its too old.

The cobalt is a lot cheaper then the Mazdaspeed 6 and is faster then the 6. The Mazdaspeed 6 pulls a 6.2 while the Cobalt SS pulls a 6 flat. The Mazdaspeed 6 is not very impressive. The cobalt SS is 22,000 with the Mazdaspeed 6 going to be 28,000.


It's also got the weight of a AWD system.

Plus it has a turbo charger which will be based at 7 psi. And those are estimated numbers anyways , There hasn't been a true run for the american release. those numbers are european numbers as it's released in europe as of right now. When it hits america , there is three projected times and different crank horse power ratings suggested. Eithre it will be the base 275 , 305 or they will crank it up with a 10 psi system and boost her to 325 hp. As of right now , those numbers are speculation. You can't say the cobalt is faster because the american version of the mazdaspeed 6 doesn't even exhist in america yet.

Now , it the cobalt is only going to have 205 HP and the mazda 6 is going to have 275 base hp , low estimate , Then obviously the mazda 6 will be faster. Some of the guys on the mazdaspeed forums are guessing they will hit the 0-60 in about 5.5 when its released to america. The cobalt isn't a faster and stronger car , obviously not stronger. The thing tops out at 150 mph stock. Also as soon as they release it , they have a company on standby with turbo prints to make a aftermarket turbo system for it within 4 - 5 months of street release. So as of right now , the cobalt isn't faster.

i believe it is the ls4, its based on the ls1 design but detuned because its going in a front wheel drive car

Oh yeah , don't forget because of the awd system and the new safety design , the Mazda 6 will be 3500 lbs. Just as much as the 3rd gen camaro.

i believe it is the ls4, its based on the ls1 design but detuned because its going in a front wheel drive car

Not detuned. It is smaller cubes I believe. A 5.3L if I remember right. Should interesting to see how that plays out.
And yes, it is called the LS4.


And Ford does have a couple vehicles out that can hold their wieght. Must we not forget the S/C's Cobras and the Ford GT. Not cheap by any means, but does also fall into the category of modern muscle.

I am pretty anxious to see what happens with the 2007 Camaro. I have heard/read a couple times that it is confirmed to be making a return. Firebird won't be though, they retired the namesake. :frown:

thanks gold i love that avatar should be your sig

gm should bring back some more classics.
for some reason i feel we will not see the camaro til 08. i just have a bad feeling something will go wrong.
anyone think we will see a cobalt camaro and vet commerical?

I can but, that is not my car. Found that pic on the net. I will post it though.

i am just sick of see someone many people with stock mustangs swearing their cars are holy. 07 cant come fast enough

OHHHHH the truck motor, sorry fell asleep on that one, its the 5.3L LS1 based truck engine. actually i was hoping that the 5.3L was going to be the base V8 engine in the camaro, for those curious, it is 327cid, not a 302, but its still another three digit number from back in the muscle car era. and the Z28 and SS would get the LS2.

damn there is some good looking ladies there once the rs is running ill need to take a pic like that

i am getting lost with all these engines!

how many camaro models are they suppost to come out with iroc?

i would suspect that not much will change, there will probly be four, the base camaro, the RS, the Z28, and the SS. i would predict that the camaro and RS will get the 3.5L V6 or similar powerplant, and the Z28 and SS will probly get the detuned LS2. however i am a dreamer, and would prefer to see the Z28 returned to its beginnings, being the closest thing to a street legal race car. firm competition suspention, rude manners, and a high winding small block. a performance version of the 5.3L for example, but alas, i fear it will not be.

A 400 would be nice..Some of those stock 400's were producing like 350 + Hp.

you really are obsessed with that 400 small block arent you lol.

but i should bring up, that those 400's were making 360 gross hp, meaning they were probly making 290 net hp or so. the LS1 was making 300hp in its lowest form. and 405hp in its best. the LS2 is making 400hp in its lowest form, and 500hp at best. Methinks the 400cid small block was good while it lasted, but its day is done for production. now aftermarket mods, id love to get my hands on a 400 and make a sbc 427 to drop in a third gen. id get ZL1 licence plates :)

Yeh , I love the 400 sb. I seen one that was put into a 84 camaro and man , both those wheels were lit up white , when that mug started to invest dough into it he went with those competition slicks and got that motor to lift his front end. Without a blower / charger / turbo assembly. I don't know of any other small block that you can pull that power out of without some sort of forced induction. Plus , I can get a free one =D saves me money of having to buy a 383 stroker.

plenty of other small blocks will do that, drag racers in the crate engine class are running the fastburn 385 naturally asperated, and carbed, and itll jerk the tires just fine. its about your setup, not the engine. although power does help. you could have a top fuel engine and the wrong setup wont lift the front tires an inch. he just put a powerful engine in a car with a good suspension setup. 400 blocks arent anything all that special. in fact everything besides the block was kinda crap. they just make good fodder for hot rod engines.

oh and the fastburn 385 is a 350cid sbc.

Mine doesn't seem very fast burn...Infact , Tomorrow , I want to rip out the distributor system and go with the HEI , anything I should be advised of , against , Tips ?

the LS2 is making 400hp in its lowest form, and 500hp at best.

I wouldn't say that. The LS7 is a completely different motor, just based on the same design as the LS2. LS7 (C6 Z06) is a 7.0L based off the C5R Corvette's powerplant. The LS2 is a 6.0L.

The LS1 makes 305-310 RWHP stock.
The LS6 makes 340-350 RWHP stock.
The LS2 makes 335-350 RWHP stock.
Not sure about the LS7, but I would bet 430 RWHP or so.

I should have my 6.6L LS1 in my Trans Am in June or so this year. :grinyes:

The 400 is nice but watch out they have a real crappy rod to stroke ratio from the factory, something like 1.4XX:1. If you change to six inch rods prepare to make your machine shop a new friend. This is going to happen unless you purchase special rods and a special small base circle camshaft. However most people use stock 350's 5.7" rods to increase the R/L ratio to 1.52:1. This rod to stroke ratio is still not very desireable. Most engine builders want a R/L ratio of 1.7:1 or more The cheapest engine out there to mod is the 350. Just put a 383 crank in and you are only 23 ci away from a 406. But if you can get a 400 for cheap then go for it!!! 400, chevy's ultimate displacement SB!

No Replacement For Displacement!!

Maybe I should rephrase that......

I am getting a 6.6L (402ci) iron blocked LS1 put into my car this spring/summer.

I thought the 6.6 was a 403 ?

It is close. Just like the 5.7 LS1 is actually a 346ci. And the 350ci is also a 5.7L.

I will always call it a 402ci. But if I wanted to put it into liters, I would hate to say 6.5971134L.

Ahh. sounds good lol.