ls block and gsr block?
liquid8
03-07-2002, 05:24 PM
is it true that the ls block and the gsr block are the same and that the only difference in the engines mainly is the head? so would it be safe to say that if you got a ls block and put a gsr head that it would produce the same power as the gsr and be the same thing? cuz i'm planning on putting a motor in my hatch but i don't have funds. so my friend told me to get the ls motor and change the head and ecu later. is this a good idea. thanks
cybercrx00
03-07-2002, 07:43 PM
I think you have to do some drilling on the LS block to have the vtec be functional on the head. Something about an oil feed. But I'm sure if you look around the internet there should be tons of writeups about it...........here......I just found this http://www.diyracing.com/ls_vtechowto.html
AznRide
03-07-2002, 10:33 PM
The LS block has more torque then Gsr block, that's why people start doing ls/vtec now. IMO, get the ls now, then find a vtec head later, easy thing to do. If you are a subcriber to Import Tuner, look in the issue #25, they show you how to do LS/Vtec conversion.
Moppie
03-08-2002, 01:26 AM
Please explain to me how one block can have more toque than another? :rolleyes:
kane2g
03-08-2002, 02:41 AM
Please explain to me how one block can have more toque than another
crank, compression ratio, and the fact that the LS block has bigger displacement.
BTW they block are not the same, they are alike.
well b18b1 block and B17 block from integra are same.
again in those blocks there are different cranks etc.
GSRs b18c3 block has oil squirters and other cool little things that b18 block or b17 block dont have. b17 GSR is basically a LS/Vtec that honda gave smaller displacement and higher compretion ratio.
Hope this helps
crank, compression ratio, and the fact that the LS block has bigger displacement.
BTW they block are not the same, they are alike.
well b18b1 block and B17 block from integra are same.
again in those blocks there are different cranks etc.
GSRs b18c3 block has oil squirters and other cool little things that b18 block or b17 block dont have. b17 GSR is basically a LS/Vtec that honda gave smaller displacement and higher compretion ratio.
Hope this helps
liquid8
03-08-2002, 03:15 AM
what would be better? the gsr head or the b16 head? would these make it frankensteinish and make it run all funky. my friend said that he heard a ls block with a b16 head and it sounded wierd as fuck. is this bad?
kane2g
03-08-2002, 06:10 AM
I've heard that people like the B16 head better because of the single runners in the intake manifold, which makes it less pain in the butt to find a chip for it, but have no personal experience.
I think b16 head has better flow through it.
I think b16 head has better flow through it.
mellowboy
03-08-2002, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by AznRide
The LS block has more torque then Gsr block, that's why people start doing ls/vtec now. IMO, get the ls now, then find a vtec head later, easy thing to do. If you are a subcriber to Import Tuner, look in the issue #25, they show you how to do LS/Vtec conversion.
No the GSR block and the LS block are almost the same specs in torque. Its only a pound or two difference in torque. The ls have atleast 127 lbs of torque while the gsr has 128 lbs of torque.
The LS block has more torque then Gsr block, that's why people start doing ls/vtec now. IMO, get the ls now, then find a vtec head later, easy thing to do. If you are a subcriber to Import Tuner, look in the issue #25, they show you how to do LS/Vtec conversion.
No the GSR block and the LS block are almost the same specs in torque. Its only a pound or two difference in torque. The ls have atleast 127 lbs of torque while the gsr has 128 lbs of torque.
mellowboy
03-08-2002, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by liquid8
is it true that the ls block and the gsr block are the same and that the only difference in the engines mainly is the head? so would it be safe to say that if you got a ls block and put a gsr head that it would produce the same power as the gsr and be the same thing? cuz i'm planning on putting a motor in my hatch but i don't have funds. so my friend told me to get the ls motor and change the head and ecu later. is this a good idea. thanks
If you're planning to swap ..why don't u just go with a gsr motor?
is it true that the ls block and the gsr block are the same and that the only difference in the engines mainly is the head? so would it be safe to say that if you got a ls block and put a gsr head that it would produce the same power as the gsr and be the same thing? cuz i'm planning on putting a motor in my hatch but i don't have funds. so my friend told me to get the ls motor and change the head and ecu later. is this a good idea. thanks
If you're planning to swap ..why don't u just go with a gsr motor?
AznRide
03-08-2002, 09:24 PM
well, the LS engine has like more than 1800cc and the GSR engine has like 1790+, I forgot where I've read it but I think it's in the Import Tuner issue #25. So really, if you ahve that, read the article. the reason that the ls has 1 lb of torque less then the gsr because it doesn't have vtec. When you have vtec with the ls block, more torque are being created. Dyno proven. Don't take my word for it but I've seen good comments about the LS/Vtec. Also when the LS hit vtec, up to 10 hp gain than the gsr.
Ok, this is none of this topic subject but my computer keep typing by itself. Does anyone else know this problem? Only when I'm using IE though, weird. don't know if it's a virus or sometihng, here this is what it kept on writing
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Ok, this is none of this topic subject but my computer keep typing by itself. Does anyone else know this problem? Only when I'm using IE though, weird. don't know if it's a virus or sometihng, here this is what it kept on writing
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90CRXZCSi
03-08-2002, 10:39 PM
IMO the GSR is a waste of money. I like the idea of LSVTEC. Buy the LS motor now and later on down the road just throw on a VTEC head and you produce way more power than a GSR. In some dynos i've seen about 196-210hp @ the flywheel and 135-150lb-ft. It all depends on how you do it and what other mods you end up doing to it.
liquid8
03-11-2002, 02:23 AM
i heard the labor for the ls vtec is a bitch though. like it's gonna cost a lot to assemble the two. will it cost more than the gsr? what were the stats off of? a b16 head or a b18c head?
Moppie
03-11-2002, 03:21 AM
Talking about dyno's you've heard about or seen a pic of on the net means crap. Unless you can post the dyno graphs, or provide a link to the site with details then dont bother. Your only wasting our time.
THE ONLY REASON THE LS/VTEC PRODUCES ANY MORE HP THAN A B18c IS BECUASE THE LS PISTONS COMBINED WITH B16a HEAD PRODUCES A MUCH HIGHER COMPRESION RATIO AND UTILIZES THE BETTER HEAD DESIGN OF THE B16a COMPARED WITH A B18c.
Infact a B16a head on a B18c with high C/R pistons is far better way of making the same power.
The extra 10cc of capcity = maybe an extra hp, if that. And it would be lost to heat because of the lack of in block oil squirters.
The only advantage an LS/VTEC has is if you are prepared to do all the work yourself. Then labour is free, and the cost of an LS block with B16a head is much less than a complete B18c.
If however you dont have the know how to do it yourself, then forget about it. Keep it simple and buy a B18c. If you want 200+hp then throw some cheap cams in it.
If you have basic know how then stick a b16a head on your B18c.
But untill I see a qualified enginer with Honda engine knowledge come in here and say the LS/VTEC is suprior to the B18c in everything but price I will never recomend it to anybody, but those with strong engine building skills and a desire to do something differnt.
THE ONLY REASON THE LS/VTEC PRODUCES ANY MORE HP THAN A B18c IS BECUASE THE LS PISTONS COMBINED WITH B16a HEAD PRODUCES A MUCH HIGHER COMPRESION RATIO AND UTILIZES THE BETTER HEAD DESIGN OF THE B16a COMPARED WITH A B18c.
Infact a B16a head on a B18c with high C/R pistons is far better way of making the same power.
The extra 10cc of capcity = maybe an extra hp, if that. And it would be lost to heat because of the lack of in block oil squirters.
The only advantage an LS/VTEC has is if you are prepared to do all the work yourself. Then labour is free, and the cost of an LS block with B16a head is much less than a complete B18c.
If however you dont have the know how to do it yourself, then forget about it. Keep it simple and buy a B18c. If you want 200+hp then throw some cheap cams in it.
If you have basic know how then stick a b16a head on your B18c.
But untill I see a qualified enginer with Honda engine knowledge come in here and say the LS/VTEC is suprior to the B18c in everything but price I will never recomend it to anybody, but those with strong engine building skills and a desire to do something differnt.
Setanta
03-11-2002, 04:08 AM
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~setanta1/magracer.jpg
:D
I hear more and more reasons against the ls-VTEC every day. Mostly to do with rod speed - as in VTEC engines are built to rev like shit and make the power at the top whereas the LS is designed to make max power in the midrange.
Put the combo together and you have an engine whose conrods are not designed to swing at the speed that an average VTEC makes peak power. There was a really good article on it somewhere on the 'net, I'll see if I can track it down.
:D
I hear more and more reasons against the ls-VTEC every day. Mostly to do with rod speed - as in VTEC engines are built to rev like shit and make the power at the top whereas the LS is designed to make max power in the midrange.
Put the combo together and you have an engine whose conrods are not designed to swing at the speed that an average VTEC makes peak power. There was a really good article on it somewhere on the 'net, I'll see if I can track it down.
dejoux
03-11-2002, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Setanta
There was a really good article on it somewhere on the 'net, I'll see if I can track it down.
This one?
http://www.hondastyle.com/news/wmview.php?ArtID=5
There was a really good article on it somewhere on the 'net, I'll see if I can track it down.
This one?
http://www.hondastyle.com/news/wmview.php?ArtID=5
kane2g
03-12-2002, 01:13 AM
there are couple things wrong with that article.
for example b17a is a LS/VTEC that honda made.
also the R/S ratio thing is exagerated, unless youre going with a HIGH HP numbers (400+) or some boost i wouldnt worry about it.
if you chech part 2 you'll find this
B18A-B; B20B-Z:
Rod length: 137mm
Stroke: 89mm
R/S: 1.54:1
Displacement: 1834.47 cc
B18C:
Rod length: 137.9 mm
Stroke: 87.2 mm
R/S: 1.58:1
Displacement: 1797.36 cc
b18b and c motors have very close R/S ratio.
so if b18b has such a low ratio and cant rev high, how come b18c can????
just my 2 cents
for example b17a is a LS/VTEC that honda made.
also the R/S ratio thing is exagerated, unless youre going with a HIGH HP numbers (400+) or some boost i wouldnt worry about it.
if you chech part 2 you'll find this
B18A-B; B20B-Z:
Rod length: 137mm
Stroke: 89mm
R/S: 1.54:1
Displacement: 1834.47 cc
B18C:
Rod length: 137.9 mm
Stroke: 87.2 mm
R/S: 1.58:1
Displacement: 1797.36 cc
b18b and c motors have very close R/S ratio.
so if b18b has such a low ratio and cant rev high, how come b18c can????
just my 2 cents
Setanta
03-12-2002, 02:03 AM
The VTiR and Integra Type R in Australia (Jap spec ITR B18) both run totally different rods and pistons to the non-VTEC B18 powered 'teg. Hence the high revs and power.
I don't really care - all I know is that my B16A has 210,000 km on the original motor. The day a LSVTEC matches that I might be impressed - but only if they drive it as hard as I hammer my SiR.
BTW - why does LS-VTEC keep coming up in here? I have yet to see it as a JDM option
:devil:
I don't really care - all I know is that my B16A has 210,000 km on the original motor. The day a LSVTEC matches that I might be impressed - but only if they drive it as hard as I hammer my SiR.
BTW - why does LS-VTEC keep coming up in here? I have yet to see it as a JDM option
:devil:
dejoux
03-12-2002, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by Setanta
BTW - why does LS-VTEC keep coming up in here? I have yet to see it as a JDM option
havnt you learned anything yet, if an american modifys their honda its a JDM mod even if it never came out in japan.
"Will there be any problems with me putting a JDM Chev small block in my civic?"
BTW - why does LS-VTEC keep coming up in here? I have yet to see it as a JDM option
havnt you learned anything yet, if an american modifys their honda its a JDM mod even if it never came out in japan.
"Will there be any problems with me putting a JDM Chev small block in my civic?"
liquid8
03-13-2002, 09:28 PM
that was a good article that just killed my dreams........... not really but. i'm deciding not to go with the ls/vtec after reading that shit. i'm just gonna get a b16a. thanks a lot. later
S2Corolla
03-14-2002, 04:41 AM
Don't listen to liquid8, he eats a lot of ice if you know what i mean.
Setanta
03-14-2002, 05:12 AM
Ummm... no?
liquid8
03-14-2002, 04:05 PM
s2 corolla is a dumbass. you have officially revealed your gayness.
GTRsi
03-14-2002, 05:07 PM
ok Well let me see If can clear up teh BSfloating around,
1. who gives a shit if an engine can last 210,000 KM? really if you are a real tuner your proablly going to do something else sooner or later, why not buy the factory built car and get an extended waranty and not showup in a post labeled "ls block and gsr block?" I am sorry for being an ass but you have a B16, only .2L shy from a real engine :flipa:
2. Yes a LS/VTEC does have really hi reving, you cant just drop a stock vtec head onto a ls block, but some nice ti valve springs, they will save ur motor in the end from the high reving action. If you can afford it get a valve job done and get your head polishied.
3. dont forget your going to need a few things for the vtec head conversion, new ECU, vtec controler, all of the oil fittings to run the oil line from the pan to the head. you will also need to have the block drilled for the remaining oil line.
4. I am sure I have forgot a few things so hit this post for a reply. here are some dyno charts for you guys to munch on. take a look in the turbo section for a great ls setup. there are some real great graphs for a nice n/a setup as well. www.importreview.com
1. who gives a shit if an engine can last 210,000 KM? really if you are a real tuner your proablly going to do something else sooner or later, why not buy the factory built car and get an extended waranty and not showup in a post labeled "ls block and gsr block?" I am sorry for being an ass but you have a B16, only .2L shy from a real engine :flipa:
2. Yes a LS/VTEC does have really hi reving, you cant just drop a stock vtec head onto a ls block, but some nice ti valve springs, they will save ur motor in the end from the high reving action. If you can afford it get a valve job done and get your head polishied.
3. dont forget your going to need a few things for the vtec head conversion, new ECU, vtec controler, all of the oil fittings to run the oil line from the pan to the head. you will also need to have the block drilled for the remaining oil line.
4. I am sure I have forgot a few things so hit this post for a reply. here are some dyno charts for you guys to munch on. take a look in the turbo section for a great ls setup. there are some real great graphs for a nice n/a setup as well. www.importreview.com
dejoux
03-14-2002, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by GTRsi
ok Well let me see If can clear up teh BSfloating around,
1. who gives a shit if an engine can last 210,000 KM? really if you are a real tuner your proablly going to do something else sooner or later, why not buy the factory built car and get an extended waranty and not showup in a post labeled "ls block and gsr block?" I am sorry for being an ass but you have a B16, only .2L shy from a real engine :flipa:
2. Yes a LS/VTEC does have really hi reving, you cant just drop a stock vtec head onto a ls block, but some nice ti valve springs, they will save ur motor in the end from the high reving action. If you can afford it get a valve job done and get your head polishied.
3. dont forget your going to need a few things for the vtec head conversion, new ECU, vtec controler, all of the oil fittings to run the oil line from the pan to the head. you will also need to have the block drilled for the remaining oil line.
4. I am sure I have forgot a few things so hit this post for a reply. here are some dyno charts for you guys to munch on. take a look in the turbo section for a great ls setup. there are some real great graphs for a nice n/a setup as well. www.importreview.com
bahahahahahaha:flipa: :flipa: :finger:
ok Well let me see If can clear up teh BSfloating around,
1. who gives a shit if an engine can last 210,000 KM? really if you are a real tuner your proablly going to do something else sooner or later, why not buy the factory built car and get an extended waranty and not showup in a post labeled "ls block and gsr block?" I am sorry for being an ass but you have a B16, only .2L shy from a real engine :flipa:
2. Yes a LS/VTEC does have really hi reving, you cant just drop a stock vtec head onto a ls block, but some nice ti valve springs, they will save ur motor in the end from the high reving action. If you can afford it get a valve job done and get your head polishied.
3. dont forget your going to need a few things for the vtec head conversion, new ECU, vtec controler, all of the oil fittings to run the oil line from the pan to the head. you will also need to have the block drilled for the remaining oil line.
4. I am sure I have forgot a few things so hit this post for a reply. here are some dyno charts for you guys to munch on. take a look in the turbo section for a great ls setup. there are some real great graphs for a nice n/a setup as well. www.importreview.com
bahahahahahaha:flipa: :flipa: :finger:
Moppie
03-14-2002, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by dejoux
bahahahahahaha:flipa: :flipa: :finger:
My thoughts, exactly, but prehaps we could a bit more diplomatic about it.
GTRsi, have a read of the whole tread, I think you'll find you've repeated a lot of what was already said.
and as for comment 1. well ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
bahahahahahaha:flipa: :flipa: :finger:
My thoughts, exactly, but prehaps we could a bit more diplomatic about it.
GTRsi, have a read of the whole tread, I think you'll find you've repeated a lot of what was already said.
and as for comment 1. well ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
liquid8
03-15-2002, 01:24 AM
those are some good ass stats for the ls/vtec. that's all i have to say.
LjasonL
03-15-2002, 02:04 AM
ls/vtec is prone to oil leaks around the head gasket, where the head is fit to a block it is not meant to be fit to, u have to machine the head to fit, and it will almost always leak oil. why go with a frankenstein motor when u can get a bone stock motor that is just as good. the extra (i think) 200cc isnt worth going through the hassle of building it all, having it not work, figuring out whats wrong, making it work, having something else not work, figuring out whats the problem this time, then fixing that, to still not have it ever really run perfectly. and the majority of the time that is whats gonna happen, u can follow a guide step by step and still have that happen. plus youll regret the increased compression and lack of oil squirters when u go to add some serious mods on there, like some forced induction or nitrous. a motor that is hanging on the edge of running well with a higher than average compression ratio is really gonna give u problems when u try to spray it or boost it when compared to the stock gsr motor which still has factory honda reliability. personally i would rather get a straight ls motor and mod that than have an ls/vtec, but the gsr motor is definately the better choice in my opinion.
Setanta
03-17-2002, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by GTRsi
ok Well let me see If can clear up teh BSfloating around,
1. who gives a shit if an engine can last 210,000 KM? really if you are a real tuner your proablly going to do something else sooner or later, why not buy the factory built car and get an extended waranty and not showup in a post labeled "ls block and gsr block?" I am sorry for being an ass but you have a B16, only .2L shy from a real engine :flipa:
That's ok, I accept your apology about being an ass - It's a strong character that admits to it :finger: Is that Mr A. Ss or Mr I. Maass? :p
Apart from the fact that Dejoux, moppie and myself have essentially stock JDM cars, in conversations with moppie we both want to retain the authentic thing.
As for car modding, well, I've been doing it for 17 years now and know one or two things about it. Reliability is a big issue. At 210,000/12years with no smoke etc I can happily say that my B16A is a great build. The day a LS-VTEC even comes close to that in reliability I may change my opinion. Plus having had a friend who did the LS-VTEC thing properly (if you want to admit there is such a thing) and then had it die 3000km down the track. He now has a ITR B18 in his 6G and is infinitely happier.
As far as "real" engines go - feel free to come back when you have a clue ;)
ok Well let me see If can clear up teh BSfloating around,
1. who gives a shit if an engine can last 210,000 KM? really if you are a real tuner your proablly going to do something else sooner or later, why not buy the factory built car and get an extended waranty and not showup in a post labeled "ls block and gsr block?" I am sorry for being an ass but you have a B16, only .2L shy from a real engine :flipa:
That's ok, I accept your apology about being an ass - It's a strong character that admits to it :finger: Is that Mr A. Ss or Mr I. Maass? :p
Apart from the fact that Dejoux, moppie and myself have essentially stock JDM cars, in conversations with moppie we both want to retain the authentic thing.
As for car modding, well, I've been doing it for 17 years now and know one or two things about it. Reliability is a big issue. At 210,000/12years with no smoke etc I can happily say that my B16A is a great build. The day a LS-VTEC even comes close to that in reliability I may change my opinion. Plus having had a friend who did the LS-VTEC thing properly (if you want to admit there is such a thing) and then had it die 3000km down the track. He now has a ITR B18 in his 6G and is infinitely happier.
As far as "real" engines go - feel free to come back when you have a clue ;)
GTRsi
03-17-2002, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Setanta
That's ok, I accept your apology about being an ass - It's a strong character that admits to it :finger: Is that Mr A. Ss or Mr I. Maass? :p
Apart from the fact that Dejoux, moppie and myself have essentially stock JDM cars, in conversations with moppie we both want to retain the authentic thing.
As for car modding, well, I've been doing it for 17 years now and know one or two things about it. Reliability is a big issue. At 210,000/12years with no smoke etc I can happily say that my B16A is a great build. The day a LS-VTEC even comes close to that in reliability I may change my opinion. Plus having had a friend who did the LS-VTEC thing properly (if you want to admit there is such a thing) and then had it die 3000km down the track. He now has a ITR B18 in his 6G and is infinitely happier.
As far as "real" engines go - feel free to come back when you have a clue ;)
I think one reason I love the LS-Vtec is because its not a run of the mill engine mod, well I guess that is changing to? You guys are right about the reliability, but for me that realy sint an issue for me. the reason I chose the LS block was the low compersion for some form of FI. Do be perfectly honest choose either one, 'cause there both honda motors cant go wrong.
I think it comes down to me being jadded because here in the US we get watered down BS versions of Honda's real streetfighters( read here HONDA WE WANT, Type-R's)
That's ok, I accept your apology about being an ass - It's a strong character that admits to it :finger: Is that Mr A. Ss or Mr I. Maass? :p
Apart from the fact that Dejoux, moppie and myself have essentially stock JDM cars, in conversations with moppie we both want to retain the authentic thing.
As for car modding, well, I've been doing it for 17 years now and know one or two things about it. Reliability is a big issue. At 210,000/12years with no smoke etc I can happily say that my B16A is a great build. The day a LS-VTEC even comes close to that in reliability I may change my opinion. Plus having had a friend who did the LS-VTEC thing properly (if you want to admit there is such a thing) and then had it die 3000km down the track. He now has a ITR B18 in his 6G and is infinitely happier.
As far as "real" engines go - feel free to come back when you have a clue ;)
I think one reason I love the LS-Vtec is because its not a run of the mill engine mod, well I guess that is changing to? You guys are right about the reliability, but for me that realy sint an issue for me. the reason I chose the LS block was the low compersion for some form of FI. Do be perfectly honest choose either one, 'cause there both honda motors cant go wrong.
I think it comes down to me being jadded because here in the US we get watered down BS versions of Honda's real streetfighters( read here HONDA WE WANT, Type-R's)
Setanta
03-17-2002, 03:00 PM
I know what you are saying - we lost the semi-performance Civic (VTiR hatch and coupe) and lost the ITR :(
madtownhonda
03-21-2002, 02:06 AM
b18c1=b16b=b18c1 block...they are all the same
the b18b is a different story
R/S is not the problem with the b18b, it's the rods and rod bolts....the fact that there are no oil squirters don't help that cause either.
the b18b is a different story
R/S is not the problem with the b18b, it's the rods and rod bolts....the fact that there are no oil squirters don't help that cause either.
dejoux
03-21-2002, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by madtownhonda
b18c1=b16b=b18c1 block...they are all the same
I doubt the B16B is the same as the B18C
The B16A has a shorter deck than a B18C so I assume the B16B does as well.
b18c1=b16b=b18c1 block...they are all the same
I doubt the B16B is the same as the B18C
The B16A has a shorter deck than a B18C so I assume the B16B does as well.
Moppie
03-21-2002, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by dejoux
I doubt the B16B is the same as the B18C
The B16A has a shorter deck than a B18C so I assume the B16B does as well.
No, hes right. The B16b uses the B18c block, with a B16 crank and rods.
:cool:
What it has to do with this thread I have no idea, but he is right.
I doubt the B16B is the same as the B18C
The B16A has a shorter deck than a B18C so I assume the B16B does as well.
No, hes right. The B16b uses the B18c block, with a B16 crank and rods.
:cool:
What it has to do with this thread I have no idea, but he is right.
Setanta
03-21-2002, 08:36 AM
I think it might have to do with some of the frank engines... ok, I don't know either ;)
mellowboy
03-21-2002, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Moppie
No, hes right. The B16b uses the B18c block, with a B16 crank and rods.
:cool:
What it has to do with this thread I have no idea, but he is right.
I don't get it? If the b16b block is the same as b18c5 wouldn't the bore size be a 1.8 and not a 1.6? :confused:
No, hes right. The B16b uses the B18c block, with a B16 crank and rods.
:cool:
What it has to do with this thread I have no idea, but he is right.
I don't get it? If the b16b block is the same as b18c5 wouldn't the bore size be a 1.8 and not a 1.6? :confused:
madtownhonda
03-21-2002, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by mellowboy
I don't get it? If the b16b block is the same as b18c5 wouldn't the bore size be a 1.8 and not a 1.6? :confused:
All b-series motors are the same bore size (81mm) except for the 84mm b20. The b16b is a destroked b18c, thats why it's only a 1.6l.
I don't get it? If the b16b block is the same as b18c5 wouldn't the bore size be a 1.8 and not a 1.6? :confused:
All b-series motors are the same bore size (81mm) except for the 84mm b20. The b16b is a destroked b18c, thats why it's only a 1.6l.
kane2g
03-25-2002, 10:39 PM
put a CTR crank/rods/pistons in b18c and get b16 head and you have CTR? Cool!:cool: :cool:
Setanta
03-26-2002, 01:17 AM
Ummm... not quite :rolleyes:
SmoovSol
04-09-2002, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by Moppie
Talking about dyno's you've heard about or seen a pic of on the net means crap. Unless you can post the dyno graphs, or provide a link to the site with details then dont bother. Your only wasting our time.
THE ONLY REASON THE LS/VTEC PRODUCES ANY MORE HP THAN A B18c IS BECUASE THE LS PISTONS COMBINED WITH B16a HEAD PRODUCES A MUCH HIGHER COMPRESION RATIO AND UTILIZES THE BETTER HEAD DESIGN OF THE B16a COMPARED WITH A B18c.
Infact a B16a head on a B18c with high C/R pistons is far better way of making the same power.
The extra 10cc of capcity = maybe an extra hp, if that. And it would be lost to heat because of the lack of in block oil squirters.
The only advantage an LS/VTEC has is if you are prepared to do all the work yourself. Then labour is free, and the cost of an LS block with B16a head is much less than a complete B18c.
If however you dont have the know how to do it yourself, then forget about it. Keep it simple and buy a B18c. If you want 200+hp then throw some cheap cams in it.
If you have basic know how then stick a b16a head on your B18c.
But untill I see a qualified enginer with Honda engine knowledge come in here and say the LS/VTEC is suprior to the B18c in everything but price I will never recomend it to anybody, but those with strong engine building skills and a desire to do something differnt.
You are wrong.... well not wrong but ignorant. Looky here, My best friend felix just frankhensteined his engine last week. bought all the parts for 600.00 and its 500.00 for the labor. His 94 civic dx sedan was dinoyed with i/h/e{aem,dc sports jdm header, apexi world sport exh} after the frank vtec conversion it dynoed in @ 179hp @ the wheels and 152lbs of torque. Now this car must be around 202hp @ the wheels and 180lbs. Said Mr. Teak the honda/acura specialist. Quoted from the words out of his mouth. I bought my Ls engine yesterday and cant wait to put that bad boy in. Also his dx sedan takes out a Gsr powered 92 civic dx hb. In all ways if there is someone willing to do the work that knows what there doing. Go for it. The ls/vtec is ALOT cheaper then the b18c1 by about half and the vtec swap should cost you 1000.00 or less depending on you.. Have a nice day...
Talking about dyno's you've heard about or seen a pic of on the net means crap. Unless you can post the dyno graphs, or provide a link to the site with details then dont bother. Your only wasting our time.
THE ONLY REASON THE LS/VTEC PRODUCES ANY MORE HP THAN A B18c IS BECUASE THE LS PISTONS COMBINED WITH B16a HEAD PRODUCES A MUCH HIGHER COMPRESION RATIO AND UTILIZES THE BETTER HEAD DESIGN OF THE B16a COMPARED WITH A B18c.
Infact a B16a head on a B18c with high C/R pistons is far better way of making the same power.
The extra 10cc of capcity = maybe an extra hp, if that. And it would be lost to heat because of the lack of in block oil squirters.
The only advantage an LS/VTEC has is if you are prepared to do all the work yourself. Then labour is free, and the cost of an LS block with B16a head is much less than a complete B18c.
If however you dont have the know how to do it yourself, then forget about it. Keep it simple and buy a B18c. If you want 200+hp then throw some cheap cams in it.
If you have basic know how then stick a b16a head on your B18c.
But untill I see a qualified enginer with Honda engine knowledge come in here and say the LS/VTEC is suprior to the B18c in everything but price I will never recomend it to anybody, but those with strong engine building skills and a desire to do something differnt.
You are wrong.... well not wrong but ignorant. Looky here, My best friend felix just frankhensteined his engine last week. bought all the parts for 600.00 and its 500.00 for the labor. His 94 civic dx sedan was dinoyed with i/h/e{aem,dc sports jdm header, apexi world sport exh} after the frank vtec conversion it dynoed in @ 179hp @ the wheels and 152lbs of torque. Now this car must be around 202hp @ the wheels and 180lbs. Said Mr. Teak the honda/acura specialist. Quoted from the words out of his mouth. I bought my Ls engine yesterday and cant wait to put that bad boy in. Also his dx sedan takes out a Gsr powered 92 civic dx hb. In all ways if there is someone willing to do the work that knows what there doing. Go for it. The ls/vtec is ALOT cheaper then the b18c1 by about half and the vtec swap should cost you 1000.00 or less depending on you.. Have a nice day...
Moppie
04-09-2002, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by SmoovSol
You are wrong.... well not wrong but ignorant. ........................after the frank vtec conversion it dynoed in @ 179hp @ the wheels and 152lbs of torque. Now this car must be around 202hp @ the wheels and 180lbs. Said Mr. Teak the honda/acura specialist. Quoted from the words out of his mouth...................
You try and call me ignorant, then cant even manage to make a sentance that dosnt sound like it come quoted form the mouth of the cat in the hat! :rolleyes:
Does the Frankied :rolleyes: engine make 179, or 202hp at the wheels?
or do you mean 179whp and 202hp at the crank?
And have you checked the compression ratio? (I bet its knock knock knocking on heavens door...) and the A/F ratios to make sure its not leaning out anywhere? (which if its making that much hp I bet it is) Or did you just forget to mention the piggy back ECU and the time it took to tune it?
And why dont you come back after your friend has covered a few thousand miles and tell us how its going, and please remember to record all the times it goes back to the shop. :rolleyes:
oh, and I bet next you'll be telling me that your car out handled a Ferrari because your 4inch drop made it so cool! :lol2:
:smoker2:
You are wrong.... well not wrong but ignorant. ........................after the frank vtec conversion it dynoed in @ 179hp @ the wheels and 152lbs of torque. Now this car must be around 202hp @ the wheels and 180lbs. Said Mr. Teak the honda/acura specialist. Quoted from the words out of his mouth...................
You try and call me ignorant, then cant even manage to make a sentance that dosnt sound like it come quoted form the mouth of the cat in the hat! :rolleyes:
Does the Frankied :rolleyes: engine make 179, or 202hp at the wheels?
or do you mean 179whp and 202hp at the crank?
And have you checked the compression ratio? (I bet its knock knock knocking on heavens door...) and the A/F ratios to make sure its not leaning out anywhere? (which if its making that much hp I bet it is) Or did you just forget to mention the piggy back ECU and the time it took to tune it?
And why dont you come back after your friend has covered a few thousand miles and tell us how its going, and please remember to record all the times it goes back to the shop. :rolleyes:
oh, and I bet next you'll be telling me that your car out handled a Ferrari because your 4inch drop made it so cool! :lol2:
:smoker2:
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