lt1 vs ls1 help

i tried to find a thread through the search function to compare the two but couldnt find one can anyone help with a link?

What kinda comparisons are you looking for?

the LS1 is a better motor, but more expensive.

good enough? what kind of comparisons do you want? i suggest you research them yourself and go from there.

the LS1 is a better motor, but more expensive.


The reason I asked, is that I disagree with you on half of that. I don't think the LS1 is any better than the LT1. The LS1 makes more power stock for stock, but that doesn't mean it is a better motor.

Both have advantages and disadvantages.

i dont think you will be able to find a site comparing the two..... your best bet is to do your homework and make a comparison yourself.... in my own opinion i think the two are very much alike when you weigh the pros and cons with the lt1 just a little bit ahead in the reliablity/strength side....

I personally like the LT1 better myself, i like the whole concept of the reverse cooling, getting the cooler anti freeze through the heads first. And then when you make it an LT4....

i was looking for a link to a thread on this site. talk to me like a lost child also when it comes to comparing the 2

LS1 = Aluminum heads and block. Lighter. GREAT flowing heads. Actually a 346ci. Gen III GM small block. Strong to about 500 horse, roughly.

LT1 = Iron block, thus heavier. Heads are the down point. Good flowing heads, and they make damn near LS1 numbers. 350ci, Gen II GM small block. Good to about 550-600 horse.

That is a basic breakdown. LT1 pulls harder down low, and the LS1 is a beast up top.

thanks luos

luos, where do you get you numbers on the engines as far as what they are good to?

from an engineering perspective, the LS1 is superior in almost every regard than the LT1.

luos, where do you get you numbers on the engines as far as what they are good to?

from an engineering perspective, the LS1 is superior in almost every regard than the LT1.

Engineering, yes. Keep in mind the LT1 is an iron block over the LS1's aluminum block. Iron is stronger than aluminum.
They both have their pros and cons. The numbers I posted are very rough estimates. I have seen stock heads and stock cam'd LS1's make over 700 RWHP. Of course, it takes 13.5 PSI from a turbo, but hey.......
Both motors are GREAT with a proper tune. Both can handle a ton of power.

iron stronger than aluminum, yes, this is true, but not by much anymore. also the aluminum not only cuts weight, but dissipates heat faster allowing higher compression levels. however the LT1 runs two bolt mains in most, and 4 bolt mains in some applications. The LS1 has six bolt mains, two of which are horazontaly installed. for a far more solid bottom end and allowing a higher rpm potential. the rotating assembly is lighter, the intake manifold is composite, and is sheilded from the oil galley, which conducts far less heat than the LT1 aluminum intake manifold did into the intake charge, the heads are far better designed and are far more securley attatched to the block, the valvetrain design is leaps and bounds beyond the LT1, using retained lifters, conical (beehive) valvesprings, and a rocker arm retainer system that is in essence a shaft rocker system, Individual coil igniton, and more advanced computer controls. the LS1 kicks the crap out of the LT1 and steals its lunch money.

not be a pain iroc but is there any thread dedicated to explaining all the pros/cons of these 2. i was trying to not make a clone thread so a link would be greatly appreciated

the LS1 kicks the crap out of the LT1 and steals its lunch money.

Stock for stock, agreed.

But once you are talking about getting into serious mods, either is great. I own the LS1 car, but I very much so respect what can be done with a lot less money to an LT1 car.

Here's something to throw out.......Iron block 402 LS1????

well shit, if your talkin mods with alot of money then pretty much all engines are equil. im talking the base building blocks of either engine. from a comparison of each and what qualities they have, the LS1 is a much better engine.

as far as being a clone thread, i think this is one of the better LT1 vs LS1 threads, what is it exactly you are looking for??? a bulleted pro and con list for each?

I think my LT1 really broke your heart 89 when it left you there grasping your crank while she drove away laughing, Maybe thats why you always talk about LT1's like a jealous ex girlfriend. Its a good design with one flaw but plenty of potential not that a LS1 isn;t a beast right from the showroom floor but they are both excellent designs with pro's and con's. I have yet to see one have the complete upper hand

almost iroc. like i said i am lost in the woods with this shit and luckily the people here offer help to younger less knowledgeable members instead of the fuckers from other sites :comprage1 who wave the noob flags and haze you to death. so thanks to everyone who answers a poor camaro noobs questions

I like my LT1... :evillol: (drool pics below)

The LS1's main advantage, and the real reason it has so much more power from the factory comes from 3 things...

1. Insanely better heads... The flow numbers between LT1 castings and stock LS1 heads are not even close...

2. The intake design helps a decent bit as well, even though the LT1 intake does flow quite good...

3. The LS1's have a more header styled exhaust manifold...


The fact that the LS1's have a 6 bolt main is irrelevant really... A 4 bolt LT1 made of iron is just as strong or strong than a 6 bolt aluminum main... Perhaps they use 6 because of the fact that aluminum is softer, has anyone considered that...

The cams are also a bit more agressive...

As for the valvetrain, they are actually quite similar...

just my :2cents:

-Garrett

http://www.rit.edu/~glr7495/newengine/eng1.png

i agree with most of that, but the valvtrains are actually quite different. they share the same basic components shared by all overhead valve engines, lifters, pushrods, rockers, and valves, but the way in which they are aranged, and the quality of the components are very different in the LS1. the LS1's valvtrain is far more rpm stable.

i agree with most of that, but the valvtrains are actually quite different. they share the same basic components shared by all overhead valve engines, lifters, pushrods, rockers, and valves, but the way in which they are aranged, and the quality of the components are very different in the LS1. the LS1's valvtrain is far more rpm stable.

Think about this... kinda from your own words...

Things the same:

-lifters (no real difference)
-pushrods (some lt's were hardened from factory +1 LT1)
-rockers (LS1's are higher ratio from factory +1 LS1)
-valves (again no real difference besides size which is covered in the LS1's head flow advantage)


Things that are different:

-arrangement? (how so?, compare pics below)
-quality? (what is better about the quality of the components?)

http://www.bryantperformance.com/pics/SS/engine/396_longblock(2).jpg
http://www.tradezone.com/vette/img/engine/cranerkrinst3.jpg

well that obviously isnt a stock valvetrain either

what advantages are you seeing from running a carb on that lt1?

i also agree, those are two identically prepped engines as far as the valvetrain, not a fair comparison. Now as far as the comminalities, yes they share the same components, as far as an OHV arangement, same as youll find in a ford, a chrysler, shit a jeep has the same compoenents, its part of the design.

I think we all know the setup for the LT1, its the same as an old SBC.

The LS1 arranges them differently in that the lifters are retained by keepers inside the block, ever try to change the lifters on an LS1, you have to take off the heads. the pushrods are the same pretty much. the rocker arms are very different. the LT1 uses stamped steel rockers from the factory, alla the SBC, the LS1 has forged roller rocker arms that look alot like pro magnum jobs, and they are all bolted to a single bar that runs allong the length of the head, kind of a poor mans shaft rocker system. These systems are recognized as being far superior to regular rocker arms, to argue this is kind of pointless. basicly the valvetrain of the LS1 is the valvetrain for an LT1 after a spending spree at comp cams. but they come that way from the factory.

just out of curiosity, have you ever dug into an LS1 with your own hands? or are you assuming things? cuz ive worked on both, and have a deep understanding of the way both are built. and base my knowledge upon that experience.

just out of curiosity, have you ever dug into an LS1 with your own hands? or are you assuming things? cuz ive worked on both, and have a deep understanding of the way both are built. and base my knowledge upon that experience.

I have gotten my hands a little dirty on the inside of an LS1. But not much else.

just out of curiosity, have you ever dug into an LS1 with your own hands? or are you assuming things? cuz ive worked on both, and have a deep understanding of the way both are built. and base my knowledge upon that experience.

I have only ever worked on one LS1... So you will have more in depth knowledge about them than myself... But I will ask the same question in return... Have you really had hands on working with LT1's before? They didn't seem to be that different to me... Sure, it is stamped steel rockers vs. roller tips, of the LS1, and the ls1's are retained by keepers (what advantage does that provide), and the rockers are on the "poor mans shaft mount" like you said, (but I don't see that being an advantage either)... Many LT1 guys run rpms up to 7k with non-shaft mount rockers and their engines survive... shaft mounts only really become necessary with insanely radical cams and solid roller cams...

I agree that the stamped steel ball pivot rockers of the LT1 are inferior to the rocker arms of the LS1, but I don't think that is really enough to call the LS1 a far superior engine...

As far as strength too, I just happened to be browsing chevy's website today to find that their 605ft-lbs producing duramax deisel runs a cast iron block with alloy heads... Goes to show that the cast iron block engine is not obsolete and is used when the real grunt work comes to the table...

to answer lickems question...

Their are a few reasons for the carb...

1. No wiring or computer to worry about...
2. Better flow numbers...
3. Much cleaner looking engine bay...
4. To be different...
5. I've worked with FI for a while, with computer tuning etc, and just feel like trying something new...
6. FI looks better in later model cars... I like the look of carb in a beefed up semi-race car...

I guess that's about it... :)

I'll have to admit, I actually outsourced the short block part of it... i had Golen Engine Service put the bottom end together... Their crate LT1 383's with an almost identical setup are what we used to gauge the power output... Their 383 LT1 with a smaller cam and smidgen bigger valves put out 480flywheel hp... Their 383 LT4 with a slightly smaller cam and smidgen bigger valves put out 520flywheel hp... all n/a numbers...

We estimate that mine will run somewhere in between those too... I have a bigger cam than both, but slightly smaller (by .02" on the intake/.04" on the exhaust) valves... Time will tell... I'm scheduled to be on the dyno in June at the Thunder In The North F-Body gathering in Ohio... should have the project car all built and the engine broke in by then... :)

the disadvantages are that i will probably have less reliability, problems with cold weather starts, and decreased gas mileage... however, i'm willing to deal with that since the car is only going to be a weekend cruiser...

i am pretty sure iroc has worked on both. i think he did state he has a deep knowledge of both

^ I wasn't sure if he meant in depth knowledge of both old SBC and LS1... or LT1 and LS1...

There IS a different between Gen I SBC and Gen II SBC (LT1)...

I'm not trying to argue bout who knows more about the engines, I'm just saying that the subtle differences he's pointing out don't seem to be that important as far as power goes... I guarantee if you put a head on the LS1 engine that flowed the same amount as the LT1 head does... it would bring LS1 output down to the level of LT1's, if not lower... Their head design is the #1 greatest factor in their performance gain... That combined with a better intake manifold design and better exhaust leads to their 50-75hp advantage in stock form...

as far as valve train configuration and components... I'd be confident in saying the positive effects are minimal... Even having the aluminum block is not really much of an advantage... It's a good bit lighter which is nice, and it probably cools off a little better, but other than that, I don't see the big benefit...

I was a corvette tech for two years....... of course ive been elbows deep in every V8 chevy ever made....... except the LT5, fuck that, i sent them to the lotus dealership lol.

did anyone mention the coil per cylinder set-up of the ls1? because that's just awesome, i just hope to get the money for a delteq's optidirect LT1 ingnition system... which uses the northstar's coil per 2 cylinder setup so i can get ingnition at least close to ls1's... overall though the ls1 has at least a small improvment in just about every area...

The coil on plug setup i'm assuming is what you're talking about, there doesn't seem to be to many problems with that from what i hear. It's not just used on the LS1's though, it's also used on most truck engines nowadays to, such as the LQ7.