FYI: Cobalt = Cavalier

It seems like a lot of people are buying the hype of the commercials and letting GM get away with pretending it's some new "high-performance" vehicle, even going so far as to compare it with - holy crap - the Corvette! In actuality, the Cobalt is simply the next generation Cavalier. If you don't believe me, read this article from June '03: http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/cobalt3_20030603.htm

So, plain and simple:
The Cobalt IS the new Cavalier!

So the Aveo is GM's dirt-cheap econo-box, and the Cobalt will retain the Cavalier's place as the second tier of the entry-level. Updated styling, new engine, and an SS Model (to compete with SRT-4, etc.), but still just a cavalier. If you are a J-body fan, then don't let me curb your excitement. But if you're buying the hype and think that the Cobalt is somehow the Vette's "little brother", I'm afraid not.

Okay, I'm done.

hey capt obvious want a medal?

they market the vet with cobalt as humor. watch the commericals there fun and you remember the cobalt this way.

you want to bash the cobalt do it in the import
section. here in the cobalt forum should be for postive cobalt stuff not crap

Read the other posts, pal. However "obvious" it is to you, other people hadn't caught on yet. For example, read this thread and see how many people seemed to think that the Cobalt and Cavalier were two separate models being produced at the same time.

Is there any car coming out in 2005 that can compare to the style and great gas mileage of a cobalt?

[snip]

i was thinking cav but always thought of it as a "girl car"(no offense ladies)

All I said was that "The Cobalt IS the new Cavlier", and that it isn't the Corvette's little brother. If you call that "bashing," then either you have a problem with the Cavalier, or you're being unrealistic. There is no rational comparison between a $50k RWD V8-powered legend and a brand new $20k FWD I4 economy car.

And, BTW, advertisers rarely associate things randomly, or just to be "fun." Pick up a psychology textbook. Chevy is trying to get the I like the Corvette but I can't afford it crowd to think "Hey, I can afford this Cobalt, which must be the next best thing." It's the same reason that Fox uses ads to associate its new series House with 24. Audience by association.

I'm not trying to praise or bash anyone or anything. I'm just telling it like it is.

And, BTW, advertisers rarely associate things randomly, or just to be "fun." Pick up a psychology textbook. Chevy is trying to get the I like the Corvette but I can't afford it crowd to think "Hey, I can afford this Cobalt, which must be the next best thing." It's the same reason that Fox uses ads to associate its new series House with 24. Audience by association.

I'm not trying to praise or bash anyone or anything. I'm just telling it like it is.

Your right about GM advertising the Cobalt as the younger sibling to the Corvette, but in no way are they saying that it's the next best thing, or the alternative for someone who can't afford a vette. GM is using the comparison of Cobalt and Corvette as comedic humor. The cobalt is being the annoying little brother to the older brother corvette in a.) The garage commerical when the cobalt beeps and flashes it's lights, waking the vette, b.) following the vette really closely and tapping it from behind constantly until he abruptly turns around, and c.) when he races him, taunts him, until he fires back and leaves the cobalt in the dust, resulting in the vette getting in trouble with the parents (the cops).
If GM had any other meaning behind it, i would only come to the conclusion that the younger brother Cobalt would appeal to the "Younger" crowd as it stirs things up a bit. Your right about there being no rational comparison between purchasing a vette or purchasing a cobalt, but that was never the comparison. There are alot of people in the "I like the corvette but i can't afford it crowd", but GM has a bunch of other cars it would like to sell also, so they'd be out of there mind just to focus that aspect of it on the Cobalt SS, especially when they have a Monte Carlo SS and an Impala SS to market in a perfomance aspect. I'd think in the purchasing aspect of the commercial, GM is trying to say "Hey, look it me, i'm just like the SRT-4 but better".

ive known for over a year that the colbalt is the new cavalier, ive read numerous articles stating this. the only reason they added a new name with the re-styling is so the general public wouldnt relate the cavalier with this new car, its like wiping the slate clean. to the everyday consumer they dont care what chassis its on or anything technical. this is also why they re-named the grand am the G6

It is not the new Cavalier. The cavalier was the Aveo of its time. Then the Aveo came along to fill that void, and GM decided to do away with the Cavalier and move upstyle a little more. The Cobalt starts off in price almost where the Cavalier topped off. It is a Premium Compact sedan. The Cavalier was a budget sedan, and thats what the Aveo is. People who would have bought a Cavalier might buy a Cobalt but its a totally different beast. Remember Car and Driver called it a Mini Lexus, can't say that about a Cavalier. So rather you think so are not the Cobalt is not a spiced up Cavalier, its a completely different vehicle that is more upstyle and a much better. I would even say its giving all the imports in the premium compact section a good run for its money. They are solid well performing cars, contrary to what a lot of people want to tell you on this board. Which seems to lean heavily to the import loving ricer crowd, which is to bad, it would be a great board otherwise.

again i throw out the comparison of the cavalier and cobalt to a comparison of the 350cid sbc and LS1. They appear to be the same, they share similar dimentions and characteristics, but they are very different animals.

Motor Trend has a very informative review of the new Cobalt, and it is quite impressive. although i would have preferred, as would the sport compact crowd i assume, a turbo instead of a supercharger, and did have dreams of an AWD setup, im certainly no dissapointed at Chevy's first shot at the sport compact market.

AWD, not many other Sport compacts offer that, and I think this is the best sport compact you can get.

the only reason i was hoping for it, is i did some design work, all theoretical of course, regarding grafting the awd system from a venture van into a cavalier. its small, lightweight, and would need some R&D in order to handle any level of performance power, in fact i dont know what its safty rated power level is, but it would be lightweight, and relatively easy to modify to fit the J-body frame, creating an AWD sport compact. However i have only figured out the automatic tranny equipped version thus far. While i dont really know, i assume the Cobalt suspention setup is similar to the Cavalier as far as design, and the same AWD setup would be a possible modification to the car. I have several ideas about GM cars that i thought up over the years that have come into production (alla the 7.0L LS1 in the vette) so i was hoping that this would be another, like i said, just dreams.

Is the review of the Cobalt in the Current Issue? The one with the CTS-V, 300C SRT8, and GTO on the cover?

It would have been nice to see the ss version have a turbo. They could have gotten alot more hp out of the car, but superchargers tend to be a little more torqier than turbos.

Does any other Sport Compact have a Turbo?

Does any other Sport Compact have a Turbo?


yes yes indeed, neon srt4, mr2, evo VIII, celica, wrx, citreon xsara t4, over in japan silvia s13, 180sx, skyline gts. American manufactures sway from turbo charging thier cars, plus they tend to under power thier cars.

yes yes indeed, neon srt4, mr2, evo VIII, celica, wrx, citreon xsara t4, over in japan silvia s13, 180sx, skyline gts. American manufactures sway from turbo charging thier cars, plus they tend to under power thier cars.


Yeah right, V8 powered Sedans, such as the Impala, Monte Carlo, 300C. Not to mention the SUVs, I'd hate to break it to you but I think America has japan beat on HP. Remember the Buick Grand National, I believe that had a Turbo, don't forget SAAB either, they are owned by GM.

SuperChargers are usually more reliable also.

Yeah right, V8 powered Sedans, such as the Impala, Monte Carlo, 300C. Not to mention the SUVs, I'd hate to break it to you but I think America has japan beat on HP. Remember the Buick Grand National, I believe that had a Turbo, don't forget SAAB either, they are owned by GM.



Of course a V-8 is going to have more power stock, the v-8 has a higher displacement. I'm saying though if you take a look at the number of cylenders and the liters japaneese cars have a superior ratio. Also there are numerous turbo cars. All I am saying is that american cars have disapointed me quite a bit. for I have owned a few. My parents own japaneese cars and they have lasted longer than the american cars. If somone is biased based upon the fact that the car isnt made in america they need to look at the big picture. Buy a car based on performance and reliabilty and not on who manufactured it. Looks are pretty important as well.

Is the review of the Cobalt in the Current Issue? The one with the CTS-V, 300C SRT8, and GTO on the cover?


Yes it is :)

Of course a V-8 is going to have more power stock, the v-8 has a higher displacement. I'm saying though if you take a look at the number of cylenders and the liters japaneese cars have a superior ratio. Also there are numerous turbo cars. All I am saying is that american cars have disapointed me quite a bit. for I have owned a few. My parents own japaneese cars and they have lasted longer than the american cars. If somone is biased based upon the fact that the car isnt made in america they need to look at the big picture. Buy a car based on performance and reliabilty and not on who manufactured it. Looks are pretty important as well.

What can I say, I like GM, I've never had a major problem with any GM car, they have never left me stranded, and I've never had to put a lot of money into them. Right now I have a Buick Park Avenue with 210,000 miles on it, only have had to replace the water pump. On the other hand my friend had a Honda Civic, and that thing gave her such a hard time, ended up not being able to drive it because it burned oil so bad, and shook so bad, only 120,000 miles.

What can I say, I like GM, I've never had a major problem with any GM car, they have never left me stranded, and I've never had to put a lot of money into them. Right now I have a Buick Park Avenue with 210,000 miles on it, only have had to replace the water pump. On the other hand my friend had a Honda Civic, and that thing gave her such a hard time, ended up not being able to drive it because it burned oil so bad, and shook so bad, only 120,000 miles.




Alot of it has to do with the expereance the person has with the car. If they have problems with a particular brand or from which country but they love another they become extremly biased. Thats how it goes. One car company I know for a fact a company that sucks is ford. Our family has had an exploder and a grand marquee and they were money hogs. GM I'm sure has good cars but thier style seems dated to me. While japaneese cars were more stream lined in the late 80's early 90's american car manufatures still had very boxy cars. In the late 90's they became more curvy. Also the interior of japannese cars were fairly advanced for the day. American car manufactures are now cetching up. Also don't buy a jag, they are owned by ford and I think that some of thier cars are built on taurus chasis.



Also with the friend with the civic, the main question is did she regularly change the oil, drive it hard, have the lower end hp engine, there are more factors than it was a civic. The same goes for japaneese cars and american cars. Truly I like japaneese cars more, but I'm not going to call you an idiot for liking american cars. Plus my favorite car is the 69 camaro ss. second is 67-68 ford mustand.

Alot of it has to do with the expereance the person has with the car. If they have problems with a particular brand or from which country but they love another they become extremly biased. Thats how it goes. One car company I know for a fact a company that sucks is ford. Our family has had an exploder and a grand marquee and they were money hogs. GM I'm sure has good cars but thier style seems dated to me. While japaneese cars were more stream lined in the late 80's early 90's american car manufatures still had very boxy cars. In the late 90's they became more curvy. Also the interior of japannese cars were fairly advanced for the day. American car manufactures are now cetching up. Also don't buy a jag, they are owned by fored and I think that some of thier cars are built on tarus chasis.

OH and the SCION XB isn't boxy, now GM is building sleek sexy cars, and still people bitch. Same thing with the SCION XB and the SATURN ION, both have a centered mounted speedo. The SCION's is revolutionary, while the Saturns is a stupid idea. People are idiots. People criticised the Aztek for its looks, but the SCION XB is worse, and don't even get me started on the Honda Ridgeline, the interior in that thing looks like a GM truck interior in 1995, and the Aztek looks like a corvette next to that thing. But yet because it has a "H" on the front of it it will still sell and people will still say the interior is way ahead on everyone else. Its build on a minivan chassis for fuck sake.
:lol2:

I just wish they would have chosen a better platform for the cobalt, instead of the "D" platform of the Saturn Ion....

OH and the SCION XB isn't boxy, now GM is building sleek sexy cars, and still people bitch. Same thing with the SCION XB and the SATURN ION, both have a centered mounted speedo. The SCION's is revolutionary, while the Saturns is a stupid idea. People are idiots. People criticised the Aztek for its looks, but the SCION XB is worse, and don't even get me started on the Honda Ridgeline, the interior in that thing looks like a GM truck interior in 1995, and the Aztek looks like a corvette next to that thing. But yet because it has a "H" on the front of it it will still sell and people will still say the interior is way ahead on everyone else. Its build on a minivan chassis for fuck sake.
:lol2:


Actualy I totaly think the scion is ugly, I don't even think it exists in japan. I think it was one of those american things. I like honda cars, not the trucks or suvs. If I were going to get a truck or suv it would probably be 98 chevy 1500 short bed. Probably get the v6 to swap out a 350 bored over to a 383 stroker with a edelbrock performer manifold and a daemon carb. Hoping to push 400hp with 423 torque. If torque isnt your thing always get the lighter fly wheel. Ahh yes a turbo 400 tranny with shift kit.

I just wish they would have chosen a better platform for the cobalt, instead of the "D" platform of the Saturn Ion....



The coupe is far better than the sedan in my opinion in looks. It was about time they retired the old cavalier series though. People just thought of cavalier as low end junk. Look at the resale value on those things they suck. Bud saturn thing, built on the redline... I'm not sure what to say about that.

I just wish they would have chosen a better platform for the cobalt, instead of the "D" platform of the Saturn Ion....


Actually that platform is a solid performer and a very good platform, its just Saturn didn't know what to do with it. When you build the car right its a very nice very capapble platform.

^^^ I guess time will tell then.

Screw imports!!! They are made small because people from japan are small. J/k. I guess whatever spanks your monkey. I personally like american made vehicles for looks. I also like to keep my money in america too. You dont see that many people in other countries buying vehicles from us. I have heard different stories on how an american or import will last longer. I think you get what you pay for. It also depends on how well you maintain a vehicle. You can keep any vehicle for a very long time if you take care of it. I had an 89 camaro with 230,000 miles on it with the original motor. It ran fine and i finally sold it when i got to college. Now i have a 2000 s-10 with 86000 miles on it and its a peice of shit because i take it through the mud...

Screw imports!!! They are made small because people from japan are small. J/k. I guess whatever spanks your monkey. I personally like american made vehicles for looks. I also like to keep my money in america too. You dont see that many people in other countries buying vehicles from us. I have heard different stories on how an american or import will last longer. I think you get what you pay for. It also depends on how well you maintain a vehicle. You can keep any vehicle for a very long time if you take care of it. I had an 89 camaro with 230,000 miles on it with the original motor. It ran fine and i finally sold it when i got to college. Now i have a 2000 s-10 with 86000 miles on it and its a peice of shit because i take it through the mud...



Honestly it comes down to how well you take care of it, but there are some vehicles that are crap from the factory doors, but this happenes to all car companies. My opinion is how well you like a car. I like japaneese cars because the amount of hp they can produce from such a small engine. This is impresive to me. Still nissan is my favorite car company. The datsun 240/260/280z is by far the hotest japaneese car. Especially when you drop a 350 in one.

Honestly it comes down to how well you take care of it, but there are some vehicles that are crap from the factory doors, but this happenes to all car companies. My opinion is how well you like a car. I like japaneese cars because the amount of hp they can produce from such a small engine. This is impresive to me. Still nissan is my favorite car company. The datsun 240/260/280z is by far the hotest japaneese car. Especially when you drop a 350 in one.


The chevy Aveo is actually a re-badged Korean Made Daewoo Kalos. It was just rebadged as Daewoo was dying and apparently went bust! It's still going everywhere else in the world until it becomes chevrolet there too. This was just to see a CRAP IMPORT to people who couldn't see that it was that. It has been around for about 4 years in europe and sales are low. They stick a couple bowties on it and and name it after a Chevy they only sold in Latin America based on the Opel/Vauxhall Corsa from europe, up the price (you'd be surprised how much!!) and look what happened! There's millions of the little POSs running around! one case of domestic branding winning over import. You may say Daewoo were shit and they were but so is the Aveo and Hyundai are also from Korea and share many components with the Daewoos, however the Hyundai receive good reviews!!! Errmm....
As for the Cobalt being a Cavalier, This isn't true. It is a replacement for the Cavalier based on an all new platform that is better then the cavalier's. It is like saying that the Ford Cougar IS a Ford Probe. I think not although it replaced it and the Probe replaced the Capri (not Mercury and all beit a few years hence)! So this doesn't really ring true. It's a replacement for the Cavalier and is improved but it's not a Cavalier. The 1st gen cav is different from the 3rd gen completely but they just share the namesake as it was a popular vehicle and when things lose their appeal they get remarketed, a la Chevy Aveo!

There was an article in our local paper's Automotive section last week that shed a little light on the debate whether or not the new Cobalt is a replacement for the Cavilier. The quick answer is " not directly." The Cavilier served a duo purpose. It was a vehicle for people who needed a car but didn't have a lot of money, and it was a vehicle for people who wanted some performance but they too didn't have a lot of funds to buy some of the other models in GM's lineup. It was supposed to satisfy both car owner's needs. When GM replaced the Cavilier, it looked to Daewoo of Korea for a replacement for those who wanted a economy based, low priced vehicle, hence the Aveo. The Cobalt is supposed to serve the needs of those who desire a sportier, higher performance car and can spend a little more than the owners who purchased the Aveo. The article went on to tell about the different versions of the Cobalt available, and that a "naturally aspirated" version of the SS would be made available later this year. So it would be safe to say that the Cobalt is a replacement for those who want a sportier, higher performance car and can spend a little more for it, that probably would have bought a Cavilier.

There was an article in our local paper's Automotive section last week that shed a little light on the debate whether or not the new Cobalt is a replacement for the Cavilier. The quick answer is " not directly." The Cavilier served a duo purpose. It was a vehicle for people who needed a car but didn't have a lot of money, and it was a vehicle for people who wanted some performance but they too didn't have a lot of funds to buy some of the other models in GM's lineup. It was supposed to satisfy both car owner's needs. When GM replaced the Cavilier, it looked to Daewoo of Korea for a replacement for those who wanted a economy based, low priced vehicle, hence the Aveo. The Cobalt is supposed to serve the needs of those who desire a sportier, higher performance car and can spend a little more than the owners who purchased the Aveo. The article went on to tell about the different versions of the Cobalt available, and that a "naturally aspirated" version of the SS would be made available later this year. So it would be safe to say that the Cobalt is a replacement for those who want a sportier, higher performance car and can spend a little more for it, that probably would have bought a Cavilier.



The cobalt is actualy based ona differnt GM car. It is based off the Saturn ion redline... As for replacement for the cavalier. Sorta... It resembles it alot and has a similar price range but with better dynamics and a higher cost. Although for the price I would rather have a civic. Civic have retarded resale value, and everyone knows that cavaliers have really bad resale value. And if people mistaken a cobalt for a cavalier the resale of a cobalt may be similar and be crap.

The cobalt is actualy based ona differnt GM car. It is based off the Saturn ion redline... As for replacement for the cavalier. Sorta... It resembles it alot and has a similar price range but with better dynamics and a higher cost. Although for the price I would rather have a civic. Civic have retarded resale value, and everyone knows that cavaliers have really bad resale value. And if people mistaken a cobalt for a cavalier the resale of a cobalt may be similar and be crap.


But you have to pay the premium upfront for the civic which, while it has good residuals is vastly overpriced considereing that it is produced in HUGE numbers and sold worlwide whereas cobalts are USDM only! So a pair of continents for the chevy population, 450 million. Honda- 6.2 Billion- the world! They fact that they aren't one of the cheapest cars on the road which why they became popular shows that Honda is cashing in on their popularity and selling cars for much much more thatn they are truly worth. In England civics aren't much more expensive new but every other car is!!! ALARM Bells!!!!!! They are taking advantage of people in the states! I bet they are cheaper in South America!

In addition the Cobalt will get better residuals than the cavalier as not as many people will buy cobalts as cavs! How may cavs do you see in a day?!?!?! The Cobalt is less 'affordable' and hence less will be sold. The Aveo has taken it's place, you just watch the crap residuals on that. Also when the Honda Bubble finally bursts and it will! The resid values on Civics will be horendous as the new price will plummet to what it should have been all along. The 2006 Civis looks like it came out of Renault and I predict no-body will like it who is in to honda! Also the cobalt isn't based on the Ion they merely share a platform and the Ion was released first as they are GM's new market test bed!

But you have to pay the premium upfront for the civic which, while it has good residuals is vastly overpriced considereing that it is produced in HUGE numbers and sold worlwide whereas cobalts are USDM only! So a pair of continents for the chevy population, 450 million. Honda- ^.2 Million- the world! They fact that they aren't oone of the cheapest cars on the road which why they became popular shows that Honda is cashing in on their popularity and selling cars for much much more thatn they are truly worth. In England civics aren't much more expensive new but every other car is!!! ALARM Bells!!!!!! They are taking advantage of people in the states! I bet they are cheaper in South America!



I think I will agree with you on this one ^^. Ya know though what is the object of any company to make money. If the demand is there and people are willing to pay more power to you as I say. Moraly may not be right but if it works to your advantage go with it. Also somthing that would be nuts is to see a civic with an s2000 engine and rear end. That car would be quick.

I think I will agree with you on this one ^^. Ya know though what is the object of any company to make money. If the demand is there and people are willing to pay more power to you as I say. Moraly may not be right but if it works to your advantage go with it. Also somthing that would be nuts is to see a civic with an s2000 engine and rear end. That car would be quick.

The RSX motor is pretty much the same but slightly different tune. The S2000 is being yanked from the market as it isn't selling any where near the projected sales! It's a shame because I love that car!

The RSX motor is pretty much the same but slightly different tune. The S2000 is being yanked from the market as it isn't selling any where near the projected sales! It's a shame because I love that car!

The engines arnt the same. The s2000 has the f20c while the rsx has the ka20 engine. But alot of it is hondas get as much hp out of a small engine. The 05 RL has a 300hp 3.2l N/A which is very impresive. The f20c although is famous because it sports 120hp per litter. Which is the most for any stock N/A car. Its quite amazing that technology has come this far. I believe though the main reason why its having problems is like any sports high tuned car is that the internals are not strong enough to take the psi. Well that happens.... It is a sweet car.

The engines arnt the same. The s2000 has the f20c while the rsx has the ka20 engine. But alot of it is hondas get as much hp out of a small engine. The 05 RL has a 300hp 3.2l N/A which is very impresive. The f20c although is famous because it sports 120hp per litter. Which is the most for any stock N/A car. Its quite amazing that technology has come this far. I believe though the main reason why its having problems is like any sports high tuned car is that the internals are not strong enough to take the psi. Well that happens.... It is a sweet car.

they have a slightly different block but you'd be surprised how similar they are really. all it really is is different mounts and trans housing bolts! The K20 makes 105hp per litre but isn't a sports car and has slightly less lift and duration on the BIG cam. But that is very impressive but consider this. in 1993 Oldmobile Achievas. They were available with a 2.3 litre motor. The w-41. These made 190hp n/a this was 12 years ago!
82.6hp per litre 12 years ago! and it's GM!!

they have a slightly different block but you'd be surprised how similar they are really. all it really is is different mounts and trans housing bolts! The K20 makes 105hp per litre but isn't a sports car and has slightly less lift and duration on the BIG cam. But that is very impressive but consider this. in 1993 Oldmobile Achievas. They were available with a 2.3 litre motor. The w-41. These made 190hp n/a this was 12 years ago!
82.6hp per litre 12 years ago! and it's GM!!



The only thing I'm wondering is if Toyota had any influence. Although I don't think so cause toyota tends to stay in even numbers. What is with american car manufactures and odd numbered displacements ya know. Well also in Japan for the longest time they would only keep the better engine in thier cars and not have the good engines here in the states.

The only thing I'm wondering is if Toyota had any influence. Although I don't think so cause toyota tends to stay in even numbers. What is with american car manufactures and odd numbered displacements ya know. Well also in Japan for the longest time they would only keep the better engine in thier cars and not have the good engines here in the states.

The 2.4 Cav z24 was sold as a toyota cavalier with sunfire wheels (15's) The ecotec is ver similar but was mainly developed in germany. So I will look into the Toyota link with the 2.3s and find out more!

The 2.4 Cav z24 was sold as a toyota cavalier with sunfire wheels (15's) The ecotec is ver similar but was mainly developed in germany. So I will look into the Toyota link with the 2.3s and find out more!

I knew about the cavlier thing, but that was a NEW UNITED CAR MANUFACTURER moment... LOL I like calling them that LOL. But I own a 88 nova and its basicaly an ae82 corrola. Wish I had got the 4age engine though. Didn't know much about the car at the time. I think that GM and toyota has had links since 1975. There was a pontiac small truck that looks alot like a toyota small truck. And they still have joint venture. The pontiac vibe is a matrix (btw are dangerous as hell as my suspension teacher will tell you.) But its also a pitty that this is the last year for celicas and mr2s. No more toyota sports cars =( closest thing is the corolla XRS. We shall see.

I knew about the cavlier thing, but that was a NEW UNITED CAR MANUFACTURER moment... LOL I like calling them that LOL. But I own a 88 nova and its basicaly an ae82 corrola. Wish I had got the 4age engine though. Didn't know much about the car at the time. I think that GM and toyota has had links since 1975. There was a pontiac small truck that looks alot like a toyota small truck. And they still have joint venture. The pontiac vibe is a matrix (btw are dangerous as hell as my suspension teacher will tell you.) But its also a pitty that this is the last year for celicas and mr2s. No more toyota sports cars =( closest thing is the corolla XRS. We shall see.

Well the Toyota 1.8 VVTL-i motor lives on in the Elise! That's primo sports car! Actuall Gm make one the opel speedster (vauxhall VX220) in Europe and it's made in the same factory as the elise by the same guys and has an EcoTec running a turbo and pushin 220hp the same set-up as the Saab!

Well the Toyota 1.8 VVTL-i motor lives on in the Elise! That's primo sports car! Actuall Gm make one the opel speedster (vauxhall VX220) in Europe and it's made in the same factory as the elise by the same guys and has an EcoTec running a turbo and pushin 220hp the same set-up as the Saab!


Yea the 180hp/170 in matrix xrs corolla xrs 22ze good engine it runs like a 10:1 ratio which is pretty good, and the fact it has vvt-iL gives it a good power curve. The top end of the elise is 150ish, with the all aluminum frame. Pretty sweet car.

The cobalt is actualy based ona differnt GM car. It is based off the Saturn ion redline... As for replacement for the cavalier. Sorta... It resembles it alot and has a similar price range but with better dynamics and a higher cost.
While I realize that it is based off a different GM car, I was posting in this particular thread some info I had uncovered concerning the debate that was going on towards the beginning of this thread. What I got out of the article was that the Cobalt could be considered a replacement for those buyers who bought the Cavilier in the past for performance at a lower cost reason. The Aveo could be considered a replacement for those buyers who bought a Cavilier in the past for it's economical value as basic transportation. So anyway you look at the situation, the Cobalt is, in a way a replacement because it targets a certain segment of the auto buying market that would've purchased a Cavilier for one of the reasons set forth earlier. The Cobalt fills that need, since the Cavilier is no longer in production.

It seems like a lot of people are buying the hype of the commercials and letting GM get away with pretending it's some new "high-performance" vehicle, The Cobalt IS the new Cavalier!

Well, I for one have bought into the "hype"... :ylsuper: FEEEEEEEL the hype man!!! :ylsuper: The Cobalt is a wicked little NEW car, and its NOT a Cavalier, its a Cobalt. Its like saying the Monte Carlo is a Grand Prix - yes they may share the same platforms but each have their own distinct styling and attitude. And how can you not give GM props for marketing the car as a new "Cobalt" - just look at the response. What are we to fault GM for doing what everybody else does?? :grinno: :screwy: :rolleyes:

The Cobalt is now the car I want to buy as my daily driver hopefully within the next year or two. Under $25k Canadian for the SS is a really good price (and add GM supplier discount to that...)

I don't know how many of you read or saw Consumer Reports side crash tests on small-sized cars (I saw it on the news last night), but they tested a bunch of little cars - almost all equiped with side airbags - and out of the test field ONLY the Cobalt and a Toyota (sorry can't remember which one) actually provided life-saving protection in a side collision against an SUV/Truck type impact. The WORST on the list was they new Neon (even with the side airbags).

I hear the sentiment about wanting a turbo (or AWD for that matter), but ya this is a pretty good first try at the little tuner market and I'm sure the car will evolve. On the bright side having a blower will mean the boost can be easily increased (just go out and buy a $10 pulley).

poor guy...

It seems like a lot of people are buying the hype of the commercials and letting GM get away with pretending it's some new "high-performance" vehicle, even going so far as to compare it with - holy crap - the Corvette! In actuality, the Cobalt is simply the next generation Cavalier. If you don't believe me, read this article from June '03: http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/cobalt3_20030603.htm

So, plain and simple:
The Cobalt IS the new Cavalier!

So the Aveo is GM's dirt-cheap econo-box, and the Cobalt will retain the Cavalier's place as the second tier of the entry-level. Updated styling, new engine, and an SS Model (to compete with SRT-4, etc.), but still just a cavalier. If you are a J-body fan, then don't let me curb your excitement. But if you're buying the hype and think that the Cobalt is somehow the Vette's "little brother", I'm afraid not.

Okay, I'm done.

Comparing the new Cobalt to the Cavalier is like comparing apples to oranges, however, I would agree that the Cavalier is the predecessor
to the Cobalt. Good write-up in Car & Driver (4/2005). Definitely able to compete with the rice burners. The Cobalt LS will out-accelerate a Honda Civic LX, faster quarter miles, outhandle and stop better.
The SS does the quarter mile in approx. 14.5 - 14.7 according to Road & Track. Not bad for a two-liter engine with SuperCharger.

Just waiting for the next years model (workout first year bugs, if any).

i saw a cavaleir today... it had a body kit and i seriously couldnt tell the difference between it and a cobalt, i actually thought it was a cobalt at first. and considering the have similar engines... its basically a new cavalier.

Just my little blurb. I hate, no, I HATE the cav. I hate the body on it. It looks like a flimsy piece of crap. My mom bought a two door 03 cav, it looks and feels like a toy, not a car. The interior is shoddy, crappy looking seats, crappy dash. Blegh.

I bought a cobalt. A two door. I love it. It may have the same or similar engine (I never liked the tranny and engine on my mom's cav), but it looks and feels better.

The Cobalt is NOT a Cavalier. If anything, the Cobalt is an Ion. But I don't like the body of the Ion, so I went with the Cobalt.

Just my little blurb. I hate, no, I HATE the cav. I hate the body on it. It looks like a flimsy piece of crap. My mom bought a two door 03 cav, it looks and feels like a toy, not a car. The interior is shoddy, crappy looking seats, crappy dash. Blegh.

I bought a cobalt. A two door. I love it. It may have the same or similar engine (I never liked the tranny and engine on my mom's cav), but it looks and feels better.

The Cobalt is NOT a Cavalier. If anything, the Cobalt is an Ion. But I don't like the body of the Ion, so I went with the Cobalt.


no matter how much you hate the cav, my 97 z24 is faster than your car and has less torque steer. :P EcoTec sucks grannies nipples

no matter how much you hate the cav, my 97 z24 is faster than your car and has less torque steer. :P EcoTec sucks grannies nipples


You still have to think that cavs are econo boxes... the torch has been passed to the aveo in the chevy line up...

My friend had mentioned somthing about GM going bankrupt, which I think is full of BS considering they are worlds number one car company.. he said he saw it in the news papper.... ne input on that

You still have to think that cavs are econo boxes... the torch has been passed to the aveo in the chevy line up...

My friend had mentioned somthing about GM going bankrupt, which I think is full of BS considering they are worlds number one car company.. he said he saw it in the news papper.... ne input on that

the 2.2 cavs were econo boxes but the Z24 a different breed almost. they feelcompletely different.

GM are nowhere near bankrupt but ARE losing money thick and fast. Mainly because of their agreement with Fiat Auto whereby that bought 20% and should have bought the rest by about now. But they bought their way out at a cost of $2bn and had already lost over that over the past decade through this deal whereby Fiat Auto could get GM to but the rest of the company at any time. The $2bn is a buy-out. GM entered the deal thinking it might get some of the Ferrari and Maserati pie but they are owned by Fiat Group and not Fiat Auto But GM overloooked this little matter. Fiat (Auto not group. ferrari, maserati, alfa romeo and lancia will be around for years to come) however my only last out another 5-6 years on theis money. GM however is still going to carry on and new models are still coming thick and fast and GM and their vast millions spent on development of their Hydrogen fuel cell work will ensure that they will be top of the pile in the next 10-15 years. So far they have over 150 patents or patents pending for new fuel cell technology. This IS the next big thing in Automobiles and GM will rule the roost

no matter how much you hate the cav, my 97 z24 is faster than your car and has less torque steer. :P EcoTec sucks grannies nipples

Yeah probably. If I had the money, I'd be modding the shit outta my car. But as I am a student of the pre veterinary variety, I'd say a base Cobalt would kick the ass of a base Cav.

Actually, the Z24 is the only Cav I would consider getting. But then again, I'd choose the Cobalt SS over the Z24 if I could afford either.

the 2.2 cavs were econo boxes but the Z24 a different breed almost. they feelcompletely different.

GM are nowhere near bankrupt but ARE losing money thick and fast. Mainly because of their agreement with Fiat Auto whereby that bought 20% and should have bought the rest by about now. But they bought their way out at a cost of $2bn and had already lost over that over the past decade through this deal whereby Fiat Auto could get GM to but the rest of the company at any time. The $2bn is a buy-out. GM entered the deal thinking it might get some of the Ferrari and Maserati pie but they are owned by Fiat Group and not Fiat Auto But GM overloooked this little matter. Fiat however my only last out another 5-6 years on theis money. GM however is still going to carry on and new models are still coming thick and fast and GM and their vast millions spent on development of their Hydrogen fuel cell work will ensure that they will be top of the pile in the next 10-15 years. So far they have over 150 patents or patents pending for new fuel cell technology. This IS the next big thing in Automobiles and GM will rule the roost


Hmmm... intresting, one thing though GM may have some competition with honda in the fuel cell department, right now i am studying hybrid and fuel cell in school and in the side lines... Honda has the first manufactured fuel cell... California had a couple right now.. the honda FCX its damn ugly but its a step in the right direction...
I'm in the process of trying to get funding to make a hydrogen hybrid that runs combustable and fuel cell... ne way

Hmmm... intresting, one thing though GM may have some competition with honda in the fuel cell department, right now i am studying hybrid and fuel cell in school and in the side lines... Honda has the first manufactured fuel cell... California had a couple right now.. the honda FCX its damn ugly but its a step in the right direction...
I'm in the process of trying to get funding to make a hydrogen hybrid that runs combustable and fuel cell... ne way


Fords Model U concept ran both with hydrogen combustion and fuel cell. It was almost completely biodegradable. Gm has had Hydrogen Fual Cell opel/Vauxhall Zafiras running around in European cities for about 5 years now

Hell, if you guys want to compare performance...go get yourself a 2001 Cavvy Z24 and strap on the Charger. Costs less than the Cobalt SS and goes faster.

Now..the handling...that's a different story...Yeah, cavvy's are flimsy.

Hell, if you guys want to compare performance...go get yourself a 2001 Cavvy Z24 and strap on the Charger. Costs less than the Cobalt SS and goes faster.

Now..the handling...that's a different story...Yeah, cavvy's are flimsy.


I wont own either a cobolt and especialy i wont own a cavy, they are the bottom of the barrel of econo cars....

For performance though its hard to beat an old fashioned LS1

GM will have to give Fiat $2,000,000,000.

The Cobalt had its best sales last month.

Cadillac had their best sales last year since the early 1990s.

I wont own either a cobolt and especialy i wont own a cavy, they are the bottom of the barrel of econo cars....

For performance though its hard to beat an old fashioned LS1

no disrespect to the AE86 but your 88nova is a corolla! that's not exactly top end! The neon (owned an 01) is far worse, ford escort (owned a 91), pontiac firefly and all of it's incarnations! There are plenty cars below the cav and none of them have anywhere near as big a following J-bodies have a HUGE and hugely loyal group of enthusiasts just check www.jbody.org. I would have a cav over a new corolla anyday, a toyota echo, a honda civic (boring to look at and way overpriced) I believe that for the money most of the competition sucks a big sack of dicks. I know about 8 people with boosted cavs/sunfires and countless that are well modified. Especially the 01 Z24 owned by a guy in michigan that is turbo'd running 356.9 hp out of the 2.4 with a few mods to it (ok a lot e.g comp ratio down to 8.8:1 from 9.5) but it looks only mildy modded and would make a 350z look slow! The 2.3 and 2.4 cav's fires are surprisinly fast stock and the older 60 degree v6 models just as fast although had a might more torque. they were harldy econo boxes. 3.1l economy car would be like have a papr umbrella- useless!

i own a fire and like 90% of my friends own either a cav or a fire an=d it still seems like their nothin like a cobalt, my car handles like a brick like most fires and cavs but that cobalt has grip like nothin (short of a couple of mods) that i ve seen out of either

i was thinkin 02 cavi 2.2 stick vs 06 cobalt 2.2 stick who would win

Don't revive dead threads.

well iam new to this site and i just got the cobalt and i was lookin for a answer but hey thats cool