Tsunami a sign of things to come?

Me and a few co-workers were having a good discussion about this earlier tonight, so I thought I would introduce it to the board to get yalls opinion. As most of you know there was a recent tsunami that hit killing 125,000 people (As of tonight) in the area of Indonesia. Many of you whom are familiar with the Bible will recall the book of Revelations, the last book in the Bible. In this book it details all kinds of disasters that will hit the earth before God comes again. (I guess this whole question is assuming you believe in God, but even if you don't your two cents are welcome.) Could this huge disaster be a sign of God's wrath? Could He finally be getting "fed up" with all the people using His name in vain, and trying to take His name from everything public? I realize this is kind of a far fetched arguement, but I think it's something interesting and worth debating about. I personally think its just a terrible "natural" disaster, but I don't rule out God's power for one second. And there are MANY MANY people that read the Bible literally that are taking this Tsunami as a sign of God's wrath. Ok, Im just rambling now, but you guys basically get where Im going with this post. SO please feel free to leave what you think.

Rob

i dont even think about that stuff, it scares me, i live my life in more peace without stressing out about whats going to happen to the world. I just dont think about it and i just LIVE.

The tsunami occured because of a chain of event that are more than adequately explained by physics.

The fact that the Bible makes vague threats about 'bad things that will happen' leaves the door open for every theological conspiracy theorist to run around predicting armagheddon evry time there is a significant natural or man made disaster.

I've even seen people try to connect the WTC attacks with their wretched collection of books.

The Bible isn't as vague as you may imagine it is.

Yes it has made me think, maybe you all need to read revelations for yourselves. And yes I do believe in God. Its not I could be dead but I should've been dead twice. We are all entitled to our opinion, I am a God fearing man. Where did the six of the sand colored missle statement come from.

I get tired of people saying this is a tragedy of biblical proportions. It is horrendous and awful, but it killed less then .002% of the worlds population. At most it may double that amount. Tragic - yes. Biblical - no.

There have been several years where tens of millions died of starvation in India or China alone. Several Hundred of thousand have been killed in Africa because of tribal warfare. Those are not biblical. Those are tragedies that we don't see on the news and therefore do not dedicate any time to. Out of site, out of mind.

Its to bad people only see Gods wrath in things. Maybe they should stop and think for a minute that the tragedy could have been a whole lot worse if he didn't intervene. Perhaps he cut the waves from 100 feet to 30 feet. Perhaps he is responsible for every amazing rescue story you'll read about. If someone wants to contribute the bad to God, they should just as easily contribute the good.

The Bible isn't as vague as you may imagine it is.
And it's not as absolute as some like to believe it is.

People have always tried to say that everything is leading to the end of the world. Its because people try to bend everything the bible says to make it relevant to something that has happened. I have heard of people going so far as to say that we are already in the end of the world and that computers are the mark of the devil, the mark on the head(moniter) and the mark on the hand (mouse)...i mean come on, get a life. If you really sat down and tried you could probably work stubbing your toe into one of the plagues. So people just need to stop trying to figure out when the worlds gonna end and just enjoy being alive for this short time we have on this earth.(until January 15, 2035 to be exact, when robots take over)

I'm curious what will happen on december 21st 2012, those crazy Mayan's knew something big... apparently that is the exact date that our sun will pass through the milky way.

ever checked out www.truebiblecode.com ? :screwy:

Pass through the Milky Way galaxy? We've been in the Milky Way for over five billion years :screwy:


Don't put much stock in the Myans - they didn't even get as far as inventing the wheel.

Pass through the Milky Way galaxy? We've been in the Milky Way for over five billion years :screwy:
.
:lol: oh man, for some reason that obvious answer was so damn funny

Anyone who spouts prophecies from the Karan, Bible, or whatever is a nut. The kind of people that sit on the corner of the street on a box

Me and a few co-workers were having a good discussion about this earlier tonight, so I thought I would introduce it to the board to get yalls opinion. As most of you know there was a recent tsunami that hit killing 125,000 people (As of tonight) in the area of Indonesia. Many of you whom are familiar with the Bible will recall the book of Revelations, the last book in the Bible. In this book it details all kinds of disasters that will hit the earth before God comes again. (I guess this whole question is assuming you believe in God, but even if you don't your two cents are welcome.) Could this huge disaster be a sign of God's wrath? Could He finally be getting "fed up" with all the people using His name in vain, and trying to take His name from everything public? I realize this is kind of a far fetched arguement, but I think it's something interesting and worth debating about. I personally think its just a terrible "natural" disaster, but I don't rule out God's power for one second. And there are MANY MANY people that read the Bible literally that are taking this Tsunami as a sign of God's wrath. Ok, Im just rambling now, but you guys basically get where Im going with this post. SO please feel free to leave what you think.

Rob


I doubt it. I know quite a few religious folk. Every now and then I like to get into a bible discussion with them. These people know the bible. Have read it in and out. They are able to comprehend and understand pretty well. But whenever I ask them about the book of Revelations they're stumped. They really don't know what to make of it. I'm guessing out of all the books Revelations is one of the hardest to understand. So one underwater earthquake killing over 100,000 people when compared to the entire population of earth doesn't mean the end of man. IMO.

Although, these people do see man kind may be nearing their end. I'm not talking about today or next year. They just see people are slowly drifting away from God. Banning of school prayer, x-mas plays and songs, legaliziing abortion (which I'm not for or against but they believe it to be one the cruelest acts of murder), etc. But who knows. Maybe God has had enough, maybe he hasn't. All I know is, I gotta keep on keeping on. Thats all I can do.

Don't put much stock in the Myans - they didn't even get as far as inventing the wheel.

:lol:

Hilarious.

And it's not as absolute as some like to believe it is.

You mean some who actually read it?

http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html


Fascinating; there was alot more going on in early heads than we give them credit for.

Perhaps the Mayans didn't invent the wheel because they lived in the jungle and it would have been impractical to do so.

maybe it was gods work.

Yogs- as i stated before in another thread, just because you think its a bad thing, doesn't mean god thinks it is.
how do we know if god needed those people to begin doing something.

maybe those people were special.

the 4th seal does not mention how many people are killed, but that death is given power over a 1/4th of the earth to kill. doesn't state how many

it also speaks of a great earthquake

but though some things seem suspicious, and people tend to look at the bible for answers. maybe its just a natural disaster






maybe

mayans smoked bud, who knows how retarded they were while they were in the sky

I only read about half way through the posts on this thread and all I'll say is this. People tend to take an extreme religious or philosophical view when a natural disaster takes place when they need comfort. Case in point, when all those hurricanes hit. Everyone kept saying "OH MY GOD, IT'S THE END TIMES, WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE AND BURN IN HELL!" Um..... Hate to break it to ya, but many of us are still here and breathing, and to my knowledge, not one nuclear warhead has yet to be released..... yet. We're still waiting to see what the hell north korea and it's short fused leader will do next.

My point is, whenever a natural disaster, or any other disaster natural or artificial happens, people tend to believe the worst has yet to pass and believe it is time to pack up their bags, and kiss their ass good bye. Case in point, the Y2K scare. I was probably 16 years old when I was telling people NOTHING would happen. Sure as shitballs, nothing did, and people spent, quite literally thousands of dollars stockpiling goods that now they have sitting in their garage or basement or bomb shelter because they believed that a simple Y2k binary error would wipe out civilization as we know it.

When it was the 9/11 attacks, everyone thought World War 3 would start. To a point it has, but as it turns out, this has been a war on Terror/oil competition. I, myself, thought for sure we would be nuking the holy hell out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and all them midget eastern countries for sure! No, that wasn't a typo. To my delight though, we have not launched one nuke.

Natural disasters happen very frequently, but none so powerful as the tsunami I will grant you that, and what people need to realize is that on a geological time scale, Earth is still in a developmental stage. Granted, the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, give or take 3 or 4 millenia, but still is growing, just like any living organism, so it will have its spurts here and there. I think a lot of people watched "The Day After Tomorrow" just a little too much and took it a little too seriously. Nothing in nature could ever happen that quickly.

And for those of you religous folk, I just have some things for you to consider, since I know you are going to quote me some bible revelations. Consider this. Consider that the people who have written the bible were men. Consider that the same men "CLAIMED" to have heard God speak to them, this would include Jesus. Now, I'm not disputing that Jesus existed, nor that he had good teachings. Don't get me wrong. But consider this. Men who "Claim" to have heard God speak to them today would be 1) Committed to a medium to maximum security asylum (freak ward), 2) would have constant supervision and counseling, 3) would not be allowed to write with a pencil, 4) would only be allowed strict supervised visits with family ONLY, and 5) would probably be there for the rest of their natural life. So now that we got that out of the way, don't you feel SOOooo much better about religion? I do! NOT. I'm more of a spiritual person, and as such, I don't feel that these are end times, and quite frankly, I just think that God/Allah/whomever you choose to call the higher power is trying to tell us quite simply "This is my way to tell you to help each other out, and I'm gonna make you do it, too!"

So in essence, it may not be "God's Wrath" so to speak, but it may be a way for him to say "Help each other, or I'll make you do it!"

Enuff said!

You said you only read some of the post. I suggest you read them all and possibly go through and read a few other threads.

The bible is good entertainment, a well written novel with some pretty important messages, that can help us to better ourselves.


Otherwise what is there to say it's non-fiction? If I write a book about some bloke called Frospock and say that he is the overlord of the Universe, should everyone believe that as well? Because that's exactly what the bible is, a book some bloke wrote eons ago to enlighten.


The Tsunami is nothing other than an earthquake that simply happened because two techtonic plates didn't agree with one another. Not because of soething some guy wrote many years ago.

You said you only read some of the post. I suggest you read them all and possibly go through and read a few other threads.

Give me some credit dude, I was half awake and half asleep and on my way to dream land when I read even half way down the damn thing. Give me at least the credit of what I wrote considering that much.

well i guess i'm crazy, he's spoke to me also.
there are still many people who have been spoken to by god, even today.

the book, written by man, written by jesus half brother, written by a few desciples.

maybe you have little knowledge of who actually wrote the bible do to living in america or australia.
it was written and is also still told. things that happen when jesus was here that was never even written, is still talked about through pass down.

if jesus wasn't here, then maybe ceaser wasn't hear.

i'm not knocking anyone who doesn't beleive in the book.
its historical and biblical that even after the lord preforms miracles and even after he speaks to the land, in just a 100 years from that time, people will again, not beleive. he performs a miracle, and they beleive, a few years later, they don't beleive.

its expected through history for people not to beleive. and just because you don't believe doesn't mean your going to hell. god will judge you. but then again, why he's judging you, you might not believe its god.

as a religious person, and to speak for all christians(yes i am, anyone have anything to say-type, then say it) we will never be able to understand gods work, and what gods work is.

therefore, dont bash on the religious for looking to there god during drastic times. its like your son calling your name when he falls and hits his head, he cry's daddy, or mommy.
a tsunami kills over 100,000 people and the lords children are calling his name, i don't think thats unreasonable at all.

I'd rather rely on science and fact rather than something created out of desperation and imagination to comfort those who need something to believe in, which is what every religion. But whatever makes you comfortable in your life, more power to you, all I am saying is that people go to such extremes for beliefs that some are even trying to force others to believe in what they do because those same religious extremists think they are right. Whose to say they are right or wrong? Whose to say I am right or wrong? No one! I personally don't believe in GOD per say, but I do believe in a higher power, but I don't believe that higher power is out to "punish" people or inflict pain for their own pleasure, like the popular villian character "Q" from Star Trek TNG, DS9 and some Voyager Episodes. I think that whatever higher power there is out there is trynig to tell us, like I said in my previous post, that we need to shape up and help each other, and that there is not anything to worry about. It's not "End times" or Revelations, or "God's Wrath". I don't know what kind of God you believe in, but if there was a God per say, I don't think it'd be out to hurt people, I think it'd be out to encourage us all to help one another and to better ourselves. BTW, for anyone who hasn't noticed, I am a star trek fan, and anyone who knocks it can fuck off!

Bottom line, if you think this is sign that we're all going to hell, fine! Go find a rock, hide under it, and in 50 years, tell me if hell smells as bad as I've heard while I sit and enjoy my life anyway! For everyone else, let's enjoy life, and while we're at it, let's do something constructive and not worry so damn much. Forget the past, forget the future, let's live in the here and now and help each other. Once you get past the Bullshit, you'll figure out there's a lot more to life than worrying about "The apocalypse" or "End Times", "Revelations", "World War III", aliens, Elvis coming back, anti-christ, your mom blocking out the sun again, ice caps melting.

Instead of worrying about things and preaching religion and saying it's all signs of the world about to end, we should be using our noggins for something useful, like getting others to listen to change, and I mean POSITIVE change.

So before you preach religion and the good (written by man, and is still a novel) book, bible, why don't people take a quick tour of the world around them, and consider what God/allah/or whatever it is that they truly believe in their hearts that the higher power is really intending. Maybe this is that higher powers' way of saying "Enough already! Either you people need to change, or I'll get you to change whether you like it or not! And I'll even start it for ya!"

hey buddy, you got a real bad misunderstanding of god religion and the bible itself

what makes you think that we think the end of the world means were going to hell?

what makes you think god is inflecting pain on people?

and if you look just a little bit closer, science to is a religion, because its alsmost all theory. by MAN.


and i apologize for the pople trying to make you believe in god and force things on you. some of my people tend to care about everyone, they tend to think if you don't beleive in god, your going to hell, definatley.

i was like you, i didnt really know much about religion, nor did i care. i did believe in a higher power though.

i went through what i went through which proved to me god exists.
but it happen to me, not you, so i dont down you on anything you say or believe.
but i would like to pm you some words of advice, if its alright with you?

Tsunami a sign of things to come? Nah, tsunami a sign of an earthquake that's gone...
Please! Why do you have to speak about God's wrath? Isn't God good?

Tsunami a sign of things to come? Nah, tsunami a sign of an earthquake that's gone...
Please! Why do you have to speak about God's wrath? Isn't God good?

That's what I've been trying to say to these people, but they seem to believe in this thing called a "Bible" and it's book of "Revelations" and "End Times" and how we're all going to be judged and we're all going to hell whether we're good, bad, ugly, fugly, or down right an Angel with wings! According to the bible, we're not even supposed to be going to the bathroom!!! :eek7:

just my :2cents:

what the hell are you talking about?

were do you get your info?

my mom can give me a spanking for doing soemthing i thought was fine to do, doesn't mean she's evil. at the time i will think she is but i dont know any better.

i can be out playing with my friends at a park having the absolute time of my life. my mom takes me away. i think its the end of the world, i think she's the meanest person on the planet for taking me away. i might even say i hate you.
we are as children to god(if you beleive in god) we don't know his reason for anything.

again and agian tsunami could have simply been the earths reaction. just nature doing nature

or it could have been god taking his people away, maybe he needs them right now. his reason for things like that don't have to be about wrath.

because many people think spankings are wrath when they are young, though spankings arent much of anything once you understand.

who knows what it was, if it was god, we will nevert know, if it was the earth then it ws the earth, simple as that

There's more misinformation in this topic than a Politicians speech.
Young, I'm not sure why you're wasting your time, It's hard to debate with someone who is so misinformed about their stance that they just automatically say what they think. He is set in his beleif, but he doesn't know what his beleif is. Or that's my take on it anyway.

People like this annoy me. Lol.

well, whatever you believe in, more power to ya, but for people to think it's "OH MY GOD, WE'RE ALL IN THE MIDST OF THE COMING OF THE ANTI-CHRIST!" Puh-lease! People have been saying that for years, and quite frankly, I'm so de-sensitized from it all, that if the anti christ did come along, I'd probably go meet the asshole, slap the shit out of him or her, drag him or her to a pole, where I would tie them up with steel chains and lock their ass in a basement 2-km below the surface where it's cold, wet and utterly dark, and tell them that I don't want to hear about them ever again! Then I'll go back up to the surface and catch a good night's sleep!

Case closed!

Agreed, I don't think it's the coming of Christ, or the Anti-Christ.
I don't beleive it's a sign of the end of the world.
However, There will be an end of the world. If it happens like the bible It will be the end of humanity.
It could quite possibly be the end of humanity even if it doesn't happen like in the bible, however we might be living in a different galaxy by then.

And the world is going to end, Don't worry about when, Because if You're afraid of what's going to happen to you, maybe you should be living differently.

People like this annoy me. Lol.

you tellin me

opinions are fine but when someone is just blabbering about something they dont know anything about, then it gets annoying

and to clarify things, another misunderstanding

revalations is not about the world coming to an end. actually if you take the words literally, even after signs ad what not, we still have a thousand years to go from that time.
revalations is about a war between good and evil and good coming out victorius. it mentions people dying and earthquakes and the anti christ is suppose to be like a dictator who will come and try to make himself to be the best thing that ever came to earth. he will give you 90% truth and 10% lie
and lie until he has everyone in control and under his power

know one completly understands revalations, you can only guess for the most part. so don't think, revaltaions=end of the world and all bad is gonna happen, cause thats not what its about.

that guy has heard some really bad lies and rumors about the bible and is really bitter about the whole thing.

again i can care less if you believe or not, but if your gonna talk abou something, at least know what your talking about.

So, we are all children in God's hands... That's a very confortable view. It cares for anything, from "I don't have a job because God doesn't want to, not because I'm too lazy to find one, and you must take care of me" to "I have just shot 20 of my neighbours, it was God's will, God needs them".

http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html

Interesting link. Basically, it says in 2012's Winter Solstice the sun will be in the crossing of the Galactic Equator and ecliptic, that's very rare, and the Mayans studied the stars and defined their time system in a way that the long count's finish is the 2012's Winter Solstice.
I didn't check if it's true or not, and I don't have the knowledge to do so, but I can see one thing very clearly: the article doesn't say this wll be the end of the world, or time of catastrophes... just the end of an age. One age ends, another one begins! Why are people bringing this here? Do you want to alarm people?

Codes in the Bible: have you ever thought we do not know the original bible? The texts we have were transcripted, traduced, etc. Any code introduced in the original version is lost. Also, with appropriated mathematical manipulation, a code can be seen in anything, from the Bible to Pinocchio or a car's workshop manual.

The world is not ending.
We are responsible for our own acts.
The Earth's surface is not totally stabilized. Earthquakes and tsunamis are natural phenomena.
Work is the best solution for excess of free time.

Work is the best solution for excess of free time.

I agree. Too much free time can lead to too much worry about everything that doesn't concern those of us with little to no power at all to change anything about it.

Weather is not a sign of anything. You get your high pressure areas, and your cold fronts, and your clear and your cloudy days. Earthquakes are not new, tornados, and floods have been around forever, and they're not going to go away - they have no deep meaning, anybody who trys to read into the weather having some sort of spirtual or religious meaning probably has mental issues. :)

c'mon now 2stroke

i understand your point, but.........

to the religious, or christians should i say. in the book it says there will be a great earth quake.

earthquake= sign

not every earthquake should a christian say "omg, the world is coming to an end" earthquakes happen like everyday.

but when the 3rd biggest earthquake in history connects with one of the biggest natural disasters in history, it can make them think.

doesnt mean they have mental issues :)

but when the 3rd biggest earthquake in history connects with one of the biggest natural disasters in history, it can make them think.


I'd say the 3rd biggest earthquake in history would necessarly provoke one of the biggest disasters in history...

Remeber, this earthquae was big among the known earthquakes. There were many 'quakes we don't have record of. Chances are some of them were bigger...

your exactly right

.

And for those of you religous folk, I just have some things for you to consider, since I know you are going to quote me some bible revelations. Consider this. Consider that the people who have written the bible were men. Consider that the same men "CLAIMED" to have heard God speak to them, this would include Jesus. Now, I'm not disputing that Jesus existed, nor that he had good teachings. Don't get me wrong. But consider this. Men who "Claim" to have heard God speak to them today would be 1) Committed to a medium to maximum security asylum (freak ward), 2) would have constant supervision and counseling, 3) would not be allowed to write with a pencil, 4) would only be allowed strict supervised visits with family ONLY, and 5) would probably be there for the rest of their natural life. Enuff said!

or would be allowed to become the prophet of the mormon church

or would be allowed to become the prophet of the mormon church

Don't get me started with the mormons!!!!! I call them "MORONS"

well i guess i'm crazy, he's spoke to me also.
there are still many people who have been spoken to by god, even today.

the book, written by man, written by jesus half brother, written by a few desciples.

maybe you have little knowledge of who actually wrote the bible do to living in america or australia.
it was written and is also still told. things that happen when jesus was here that was never even written, is still talked about through pass down.

if jesus wasn't here, then maybe ceaser wasn't hear.

i'm not knocking anyone who doesn't beleive in the book.
its historical and biblical that even after the lord preforms miracles and even after he speaks to the land, in just a 100 years from that time, people will again, not beleive. he performs a miracle, and they beleive, a few years later, they don't beleive.

its expected through history for people not to beleive. and just because you don't believe doesn't mean your going to hell. god will judge you. but then again, why he's judging you, you might not believe its god.

as a religious person, and to speak for all christians(yes i am, anyone have anything to say-type, then say it) we will never be able to understand gods work, and what gods work is.

therefore, dont bash on the religious for looking to there god during drastic times. its like your son calling your name when he falls and hits his head, he cry's daddy, or mommy.
a tsunami kills over 100,000 people and the lords children are calling his name, i don't think thats unreasonable at all.

Just to clarify, Jesus was a real man. Old Roman documents prove his exsistence.

Just to clarify, Jesus was a real man. Old Roman documents prove his exsistence.

No one is saying he didn't exist, it's what happened afterward that is still in dispute to this day, and will probably be in dispute for the next 2000 years. Unless they invent time travel technology, which I hope never exists.... EVER!

No one is saying he didn't exist, it's what happened afterward that is still in dispute to this day, and will probably be in dispute for the next 2000 years. Unless they invent time travel technology, which I hope never exists.... EVER!
Yup. And so for future reference I wanted to let everyone know he was a real man. With all this talk about the bible being a good novel or taken as truth/word, I wanted to let everyone know that Jesus did in fact exsist whether your a bible believer or not. That is all...

i like this guy ^^

Codes in the Bible: have you ever thought we do not know the original bible? The texts we have were transcripted, traduced, etc. Any code introduced in the original version is lost. Also, with appropriated mathematical manipulation, a code can be seen in anything, from the Bible to Pinocchio or a car's workshop manual.


I am not interested in Bible code nor do I wish to prove it or disprove it so I won't get into that part of the discussion. What I will get into is the huge misconception of your second statement. "have you ever thought we do not know the original bible? The texts we have were transcripted, traduced, etc"

I have posted on several occasions about this but one more time won't hurt I guess. The people who generally believe this statement are those who don't bother doing the research and just repeat what they have heard. I believed it one time myself and set out to prove to myself that it wasn't accurate and ended up proving just the opposite.

Here is a quote from a website I picked up some time back.

"One of the most prominent figures who wanted to prove the Bible wrong was Nobel Prize-winning chemist and archeologist Sir William Ramsay. He was an atheist on a mission. Ramsay spent decades digging up history, but not one thing dug up by him or anyone else has ever conflicted with the Bible. In Luke's writings alone, in references to 32 countries, 44 cities and nine islands, there were no errors.
Based on the overwhelming evidence Ramsay found to support the Bible, he converted to Christianity.
An astounding 25,000 archeological digs have agreed with things written in the Bible.
Many like to cast doubt on the Bible in terms of translation.
Unfortunately for them, the evidence is not in their favor.
Critics generally accept that Plato's writings were written by Plato, yet the gap between the date Plato wrote and the earliest copies we have of his writings is 1,400 years -- and there are only seven of them.
On the other hand, the gap between the original writing and the earliest copies we have of the Bible is a mere 60 years and there are over 5,000 ancient copies.
Well, that's a curious phenomenon!
In addition, of the 24,000 manuscripts of the Bible, copied at different times and in different languages, they are in 99.5 percent agreement."

Understanding how the Bible was translated and the evidence of ancient manuscripts is key to believing the accuracy of the current versions of the Bible as they compair to the origional. Here are a few links. One is in very simple terms and the others go into a little more detail.

http://www.beyondthisplanet.org/bible/No_mistakes/no_mistakes.htm (http://www.beyondthisplanet.org/bible/No_mistakes/no_mistakes.htm)

http://www.seeking4truth.com/historical_accuracy_of_the_bible.htm (http://www.seeking4truth.com/historical_accuracy_of_the_bible.htm)

http://www.slsoftware.com/study/html_outlines/Accuracy_Of_The_Bible.html (http://www.slsoftware.com/study/html_outlines/Accuracy_Of_The_Bible.html)



http://everystudent.com/features/bible.html#4


Yes these are Christian based websites but please don't let that stop you from looking into them. What they present on this subject is fact and backed up by non-Christian archeologist findings and by non-Christian scientist discoveries.


The world is not ending.

The world is ending. It may not happen in your lifetime(although you never know.) Do you know anything in the physical world that doesn't have a beginning or an end? Why would you think earth is any different? What makes earth special that it would act differently than anything else man has observed in his known universe?

We are responsible for our own acts.

True. But who are we responsible too? Who do we answer to for the choices we make? I know who I will ultimately answer to.

The Earth's surface is not totally stabilized. Earthquakes and tsunamis are natural phenomena.

Very true. The earth is governed by the laws of nature which God has set in place.

The world is ending. It may not happen in your lifetime (although you never know.) Do you know anything in the physical world that doesn't have a beginning or an end? Why would you think earth is any different? What makes earth special that it would act differently than anything else man has observed in his known universe?
What I meant was the tsunami is not the end of the world.


True. But who are we responsible too? Who do we answer to for the choices we make? I know who I will ultimately answer to.
I said nothing for or against that. What I was trying to say is: it doesn't matter if you believe in God, in gods, in the nature, in the stars, in a bicicle tyre or in nothing at all, you are responsible for your actions and you can't just say "it was God's (or the nature, or...) will" to justify your actions.

Yes these are Christian based websites but please don't let that stop you from looking into them
What made you think I wouldn't look into Christian based websites?

About the Bible: I said, and I say it again: the bible was changed, both by errors of transcription and translation and intentionally. You believe what you want.

I am not interested in Bible code nor do I wish to prove it or disprove it so I won't get into that part of the discussion. What I will get into is the huge misconception of your second statement. "have you ever thought we do not know the original bible? The texts we have were transcripted, traduced, etc"

I have posted on several occasions about this but one more time won't hurt I guess. The people who generally believe this statement are those who don't bother doing the research and just repeat what they have heard. I believed it one time myself and set out to prove to myself that it wasn't accurate and ended up proving just the opposite.

Here is a quote from a website I picked up some time back.

"One of the most prominent figures who wanted to prove the Bible wrong was Nobel Prize-winning chemist and archeologist Sir William Ramsay. He was an atheist on a mission. Ramsay spent decades digging up history, but not one thing dug up by him or anyone else has ever conflicted with the Bible. In Luke's writings alone, in references to 32 countries, 44 cities and nine islands, there were no errors.
Based on the overwhelming evidence Ramsay found to support the Bible, he converted to Christianity.
An astounding 25,000 archeological digs have agreed with things written in the Bible.
Many like to cast doubt on the Bible in terms of translation.
Unfortunately for them, the evidence is not in their favor.
Critics generally accept that Plato's writings were written by Plato, yet the gap between the date Plato wrote and the earliest copies we have of his writings is 1,400 years -- and there are only seven of them.
On the other hand, the gap between the original writing and the earliest copies we have of the Bible is a mere 60 years and there are over 5,000 ancient copies.
Well, that's a curious phenomenon!
In addition, of the 24,000 manuscripts of the Bible, copied at different times and in different languages, they are in 99.5 percent agreement."

Understanding how the Bible was translated and the evidence of ancient manuscripts is key to believing the accuracy of the current versions of the Bible as they compair to the origional. Here are a few links. One is in very simple terms and the others go into a little more detail.

http://www.beyondthisplanet.org/bible/No_mistakes/no_mistakes.htm (http://www.beyondthisplanet.org/bible/No_mistakes/no_mistakes.htm)

http://www.seeking4truth.com/historical_accuracy_of_the_bible.htm (http://www.seeking4truth.com/historical_accuracy_of_the_bible.htm)

http://www.slsoftware.com/study/html_outlines/Accuracy_Of_The_Bible.html (http://www.slsoftware.com/study/html_outlines/Accuracy_Of_The_Bible.html)



http://everystudent.com/features/bible.html#4


Yes these are Christian based websites but please don't let that stop you from looking into them. What they present on this subject is fact and backed up by non-Christian archeologist findings and by non-Christian scientist discoveries.




The world is ending. It may not happen in your lifetime(although you never know.) Do you know anything in the physical world that doesn't have a beginning or an end? Why would you think earth is any different? What makes earth special that it would act differently than anything else man has observed in his known universe?



True. But who are we responsible too? Who do we answer to for the choices we make? I know who I will ultimately answer to.



Very true. The earth is governed by the laws of nature which God has set in place.


i also did some research, but everything i found out is in your post above and more. thanks for the boost in knowledge. like i said, hlaf of it i alredy found myself, but the rest of it was just the info i needed.

I said nothing for or against that. What I was trying to say is: it doesn't matter if you believe in God, in gods, in the nature, in the stars, in a bicicle tyre or in nothing at all, you are responsible for your actions and you can't just say "it was God's (or the nature, or...) will" to justify your actions.
I guess I don't know anyone who uses that excuse.

What made you think I wouldn't look into Christian based websites?

Some people don't like going to Christian based websites because they think they are biased. If you don't think that way then that's a good thing.


About the Bible: I said, and I say it again: the bible was changed, both by errors of transcription and translation and intentionally. You believe what you want.

So reguardless of the facts you are sticking to your beliefs. I guess that's your choice. I won't try and change your mind any longer.

Mental problems. :)

According to the Antiquities of Josephus, Jesus was a pretty common name back then, there were alot of people named Jesus. There was of course Jesus Christ, the problem though, is not proving that Jesus existed, it is proving that Jesus was who the Bible claims he was.
Being that it's impossible to prove the existence of God (or to dissprove for that matter) it would be impossible to prove Jesus Christ to be the son of God, or to not be the son of God.
If you really want to believe it's true - then do so, there's no hard evidence to stop you. If you think it's all bull, well - you're just as right as the believers are, there's nothing solid to keep you from that belief either. :yugosmili
Anyway back on the topic of weather and religion, and mental problems - if God really wanted to send a message, I doubt he'd let his earthquake settle for 3rd place. I wonder what he was trying to say to Alaska in the 1960's? Or to San Francisco at the turn of last century? I guess the world is not significantly closer to ending than it was 100 years ago. :)

Anyway back on the topic of weather and religion, and mental problems - if God really wanted to send a message, I doubt he'd let his earthquake settle for 3rd place. I wonder what he was trying to say to Alaska in the 1960's? Or to San Francisco at the turn of last century? I guess the world is not significantly closer to ending than it was 100 years ago. :)

thats funny you speak of how you think god would work, yet you don't beleive in him, or do you?

did the earthqauke in the 60's kill 130,000 people?

how bout the san francisco quake?

and the bible did not say it was gonna be the biggest earthqauke i history, or the biggest earthqauke the world has ever seen, it simply said a great earthquake.

3rd biggest earthquake recorded following a 130,000 human loss, seems quite big to me.

now i am by no means saying this is a sign, i have no clue, could have simply been the earth doing what it does. but it just seems funny that you try and speak logically for what god would do.

now i am by no means saying this is a sign, i have no clue, could have simply been the earth doing what it does. but it just seems funny that you try and speak logically for what god would do.
Does it seem funny then that people are trying to attach some meaning to this disaster, as though it were a sign from God? :p (besides, haven't you read my thread about people "thinking for" God?)

The thing is...are we really thinking for God? Or are we just trying to interpret the things of God? To us all things point to Him. The tricky part is sorting out the important things from the every day things. The earth quake may have been important but usually we don't figure it out till further down the road. Most of the prophesies in the old testament that have come to pass weren't as clear for the people going through them as they are today.The fall of Israel was fortold but the people going through it most likely didn't understand they were living through that particular prophesy.
Anyway...Enough about this one for me.
Time for bed.
Night all.

I guess I don't know anyone who uses that excuse.
I don't mean people say it directly. They use it to self explain their behaviour.

Some people don't like going to Christian based websites because they think they are biased. If you don't think that way then that's a good thing.
Every site is potentially biased. We must read, think and come to conclusions.

So reguardless of the facts you are sticking to your beliefs.
The problem is those sites only give you the facts that support the conclusions they want. The right thing to do is to present the "for" and the "against" and conclude the "for" are stronger.

I guess that's your choice. I won't try and change your mind any longer.
I believe in freedom. I don't agree with you, but I think you have the right to have your own opinion. Apparently, you think the same way. I'm glad we agree on this! :smile:

I guess the world is not significantly closer to ending than it was 100 years ago.
It is 100 years closer... :smile:

thats funny you speak of how you think god would work, yet you don't beleive in him, or do you?
It's funny speaking how God would work, regardless of one's beliefs.
If you don't believe in Him, you can't say he works, can you?
If you believe, you know he is a superior being, so you cannot understand his work, you must accept it.

It is 100 years closer... :smile:
Considering how long it's been around, is 100 years really significant? :grinno:

The problem is those sites only give you the facts that support the conclusions they want. The right thing to do is to present the "for" and the "against" and conclude the "for" are stronger.


.
But I haven't seen any facts against. I have heard people make claims against but no one has given any facts.

So far this thread has gone BEYOND it's original point. So far that I think we've not even really touched its original intent. Is the Tsunami tragedy a sign of things to come? World ending? Apocalypse? Third anti-christ? George Bush getting impeached (one would only hope)? Pigs flying? Dogs and cats living in harmony?

C'mon, let's get down to the meat and potatoes of this. We've talked all sorts of religion, and how we THINK this tragedy has been influenced by a higher power. We've all talked about how we THINK it will affect future events. Bottom line, no one person has any friggin clue what's going to happen tomorrow. No one! I think a popular movie said it best "The future has been written yet! It's whatever you make of it, so make it a good one!" In other words, stop making a future in your heads and live for the here and now and don't let the past equal the future. yes, it was a tragedy, no, I don't think it was an intentionality of God/Allah/higher power. Do I think he/she/it had something to do it? Maybe. But neither I, nor any one person on this board can prove nor disprove that! My point here is to drop the religion aspect of the conversation. It's getting old, and it's getting older faster than my grandfather on social security benefits. If you want to talk religion, start up another thread and title it "Religion, is there a god?" or substitute God for whatever term you see fit.

All I see is that it was a natural disaster that killed many thousands of lives, and while I sympathize for those people, I cannot help but to think that this is just another day in the life of earth, and that it just goes on like any other day.

Considering how long it's been around, is 100 years really significant? :grinno:

I don't know... Imagine the world ends tomorrow :22yikes: 100 years would be very significant! :iceslolan

It's funny speaking how God would work, regardless of one's beliefs.
If you don't believe in Him, you can't say he works, can you?
If you believe, you know he is a superior being, so you cannot understand his work, you must accept it.

you are exactly right, but the one who sticks close to his father, would have a somewhat better understanding of his actions.

but knowone knows how he works, and never will understand his works from beginning to end.

So far this thread has gone BEYOND it's original point. So far that I think we've not even really touched its original intent. Is the Tsunami tragedy a sign of things to come? World ending? Apocalypse? Third anti-christ? George Bush getting impeached (one would only hope)? Pigs flying? Dogs and cats living in harmony?


Perhaps you should take a look at the first post.

My point here is to drop the religion aspect of the conversation. It's getting old, and it's getting older faster than my grandfather on social security benefits. If you want to talk religion, start up another thread and title it "Religion, is there a god?" or substitute God for whatever term you see fit.

Again; Perhaps you should take a look at the first post.

Here it is for your benefit. I even took the liberty of highlighting the parts that deal with a "religous aspect" just in case you had a hard time recognizing them.

"Me and a few co-workers were having a good discussion about this earlier tonight, so I thought I would introduce it to the board to get yalls opinion. As most of you know there was a recent tsunami that hit killing 125,000 people (As of tonight) in the area of Indonesia. Many of you whom are familiar with the Bible will recall the book of Revelations, the last book in the Bible. In this book it details all kinds of disasters that will hit the earth before God comes again. (I guess this whole question is assuming you believe in God, but even if you don't your two cents are welcome.) Could this huge disaster be a sign of God's wrath? Could He finally be getting "fed up" with all the people using His name in vain, and trying to take His name from everything public? I realize this is kind of a far fetched arguement, but I think it's something interesting and worth debating about. I personally think its just a terrible "natural" disaster, but I don't rule out God's power for one second. And there are MANY MANY people that read the Bible literally that are taking this Tsunami as a sign of God's wrath. Ok, Im just rambling now, but you guys basically get where Im going with this post. SO please feel free to leave what you think.

Rob"