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Amended Brake Warranty-Need to Read


Lauraa_000
12-27-2004, 11:57 AM
I wish everyone good luck when it comes to your brakes on the G35.

Just got back from the dealership. They are inspecting my brakes right now. There is an amended warranty on the brakes (36k - 3 years).

BUT the solution is: 1) rotate rotors (resurface them) 2) give u the exact same brake pads that were originally on the car. These are the two "options" as explained to me this morning.

So basically at 13 to 15k miles, you will have your rotors resurfaced. And by the time you get to 36k miles, you'll get to pay for new rotors out of your pocket. And the replacement rotors will be the same as the original equipment.

The "amended warranty" is simply a band-aid. Just enough to get you by until the warranty period runs out. Infiniti is replacing and fixing with the exact same defected brake system (same rotors & same pads).

Infiniti has known about this problem. When you were looking at buying the car, no one explained the brakeing issues to you (otherwise no one would be driving a g35). And the 2003 models have the EXACT same problem. Everyone knew about this problem except for the consumer.

I suggest to everyone: Start looking into the class action law suit against Infiniti North America.

I know I am.

G35XAndTrailBlazer
12-28-2004, 06:48 PM
First I'v heard about this... I'll tell my dad to read it.

G35XAndTrailBlazer
12-29-2004, 03:24 PM
Hey, just one question, is this problem on a 2004 Infiniti G35X? or is it fixed for 2004?

dholly
12-29-2004, 07:50 PM
Great advice - just what the world needs, more litigation.

Please, nobody has ever suggested there is any safety issues at stake here, let alone substantiated a widespread effect with 'substantial damages' to the majority of all G35 owners. Sure, some low-rent class action attorney might sweet-talk enough people into suing to benefit him/herself handsomely, but the classholders will get squat, and the price of new G35's will rise.

It is important to note that the majority of owners are NOT having a problem. Citing with certainty that all G35 owners can expect to experience the exact same thing you purportedly have, at the same service interval is irresponsible. It simply does not mirror the experience of the vast number of members on the most active G35 forums, so next time please provide HARD FACTS to support such allegations if you must vent. One thing to take into consideration is driving habits. Obviously, the more aggressive a driver you are, the shorter your brake component's life will be. Proper rotor 'seasoning” and brake pad 'bedding' processes are very integral to the longevity of your new brake system, particularly so on a performance car, and will help reduce squeeling as well. Did you do that?

At any rate, they ARE performance brakes. Performance brakes and tires stop your car on a dime, but the price is they wear out more quickly. They're only unsafe if you neglect them. You could argue that having to replace them so frequently is wrong somehow, but I don't think the "unsafe" approach will fly when the G35 Sedan can stop better than every other single current production car aside from a $285,000 Lamborghini Murcielago. Your brakes wearing out too fast isn't getting anybody hurt.

Back on point - for the minority that have had premature wear, to their credit, NNA has pro-actively grabbed the bull by the horns and is offering free service, repair or replacement. That is pretty impressive customer service, something they did not have to do and takes straight from the bottom line. It is also my understanding that the brake pad composition of the replacement pads may, in fact, be dissimilar to the original oem pads. That might extend the brake service interval and perhaps your concerns about recurring problems will prove to be unfounded. Additionally, there are also aftermarket brake pads available that provide less brake dust, longer rotor life, better performance under higher operating temperatures, and longer pad life for as less than $50. Or, I suppose, you could sue. Sheesh.

For reference, here is the text of the Nov. 2003 letter:

"Dear Infiniti G35 Owner:

Infiniti is committed to providing the highest levels of product quality and customer satisfaction. One of the many superior features of the award winning G35 is its excellent braking performance. This performance is due in part to advances in materials technology inherent in the brake pads on model year 2003 and 2004 G35 sedans and automatic transmission coupes. However, that superior performance can result in these customers sometimes experiencing greater brake wear than they may have experienced with other vehicles they previously owned or leased.

What Infiniti Will Do

To ensure the highest levels of customer satisfaction, Infiniti is launching a program to provide brake maintenance (as detailed below) on your G35 sedan or automatic transmission equipped G35 coupe for 3 years from the original in-service date or 36,000 miles on your odometer, whichever occurs first, at no charge to you. This program is only available through an Infiniti dealership.

For 2003 or 2004 Infiniti G35 sedans or automatic transmissions equipped G35 coupes, this brake maintenance program covers brake pad and/or brake rotor replacement (or turning as appropriate) performed by your Infiniti dealership (only) when required because of wear during the program period. This program applies for 3 years from the original in-service date or 36,000 miles on your odometer, whichever occurs first.

What You Should Do

This program covers brake pad or rotor replacement (or turning) found to be necessary when you present your G35 to an Infiniti dealer for normal vehicle maintenance. In addition, as noted in your Owners Manual, the disc brake pads have audible wear warnings. When a brake pad requires replacement, it will make a high pitched scraping sound when the vehicle is in motion, whether or not the brake pedal is depressed. Your Owners Manual advises you to have the brakes checked by an Infiniti dealer if you hear this sound. There will be no charge to you for brake pad or rotor replacement (or turning) if found to be necessary due to wear. This maintenance service should take approximately 2 hours to complete, but you may have to leave your car for a longer period based upon dealer work schedules or parts availability.

If you have previously had your brake pads or rotors replaced (or turned) during maintenance to your vehicle prior to the announcement of this program, you may be eligible for reimbursement of those expenses. Please simply complete the attached form and provide us with proof of such brake maintenance service and the amount paid, as well as proof of ownership.

With this program, Infiniti intends to reduce your overall ownership costs as you continue to enjoy your G35 and Infiniti’s Total Ownership Experience. If you have any additional questions, please contact your Infiniti dealer or you can contact Infiniti Consumer Affairs at 1-800-947-9115.

Infiniti Division"

Lauraa_000
01-02-2005, 05:11 PM
Actually I did know that :) I have one of those Professional Engineer lic. I do know more than your average person.

Point is that the car (granted may not be every car) has abnormal brake wear. And the car manufacturer has known about it. They are not "fixing" the problem. Resurfacing rotors providing the exact smae replacement parts is not fixing a problem. It just simply making the braking system last longer (what I refer to as a band aid).

I travel with my job. The miles on my car are ALL highway miles. I do not drive my car hard. I had been driving a E320 Mercedes for seven years before this car. So trust me, I know how to be nice to a car.

Not trying to argue with you. We all (including yourself have better things to do)....my only point is that this should not be happening with this car....period...end of story.

G35XAndTrailBlazer
01-02-2005, 07:50 PM
Laura, is it on the 04 models though?

Lauraa_000
01-03-2005, 02:12 PM
Yes - its on the 04 models (mine is an 04)

All sedan and coupes with automatic transmissions (at least thats the way it was explained to me)

G35XAndTrailBlazer
01-03-2005, 06:42 PM
Hmmm...... I will ask my dealer about the problem. Thank you

dholly
01-04-2005, 04:33 PM
BUT the solution is: 1) rotate rotors (resurface them) 2) give u the exact same brake pads that were originally on the car. These are the two "options" as explained to me this morning.

Just enough to get you by until the warranty period runs out. Infiniti is replacing and fixing with the exact same defected brake system (same rotors & same pads). They are not "fixing" the problem. Resurfacing rotors providing the exact smae replacement parts is not fixing a problem. It just simply making the braking system last longer (what I refer to as a band aid). Laura, I am not trying to be argumentative; I simply think you and your dealer may be mistaken about using the same pads for replacement. For the past several months I have heard multiple knowledgeable sources, including dealers, state that the replacement pads installed under the brake warranty ARE different. Frankly, it would not surprise me in the least if a service writer, or even a service tech, was not aware of that change. Unless they are a die-hard enthusiast, it's not their job. Most could care less.

Most likely, any premature wear of the pads and rotors can be traced to the original oem brake pad composition. For 2003 and 2004 5at and 6mt sedans plus 5at coupes, the OEM front application is a Hitachi a low semi-metallic pad. Semi-metallic pads are hard on rotors and this is why copious amounts of brake dust is visible on the front wheels. Ever notice how the rears have less dust on the wheels? That's because the rear pads on all sedans and 5at coupe are ceramic brake pads made by Akebono, hence less dusting. Ceramic pads are much 'friendlier' to rotors. Almost every excessive pad and rotor wear report appear to target the front components rather than the rear; more supporting evidence that the front oem pad composition is the most likely cause of what might be considered 'premature' wear of the front brake components.

Of interest, I understand Akebono is now offering front replacement pads using a semi-metallic/ceramic composition for VDC application (both VDC and non-VDC replacement pads use the same steel backing plates, but the VDC application uses a thicker lining). There is some speculation that this actually is the new OEM replacement pad used under the G35 brake warranty, but both Akebono and Infiniti will neither confirm or deny. Owners with replacement pads have stated that the new pads are "less grabby", something consistent with such a pad composition change. Akebono has already released the rear ceramic replacement pads for all 2003-2004 G35 sedans, and 5at coupes for retail purchase. That part number is D905 and I believe Tire Rack carries them.

So basically at 13 to 15k miles, you will have your rotors resurfaced. And by the time you get to 36k miles, you'll get to pay for new rotors out of your pocket. And the replacement rotors will be the same as the original equipment.
This may be your opinion, however, it is pure conjecture. There is simply no evidence to date that supports a theory of wholesale rotor failure at an early interval. The warranty states they will resurface or replace rotors as necessary, but I have never seen a single instance where rotors needed to be turned or replaced without pad replacement. Therefore, it would seem completely reasonable to assume that Infiniti feels a new brake pad compositions will remedy any potential future 'premature' or 'excessive' rotor wear. It should be noted, however, that it is standard industry practice to turn rotors when replacing brake pads (assuming no rotor defects have been identified). To turn rather than replace rotors with serviceable life remaining would be the recommended service if the vehicle were out of warranty.

Point is that the car (granted may not be every car) has abnormal brake wear. And the car manufacturer has known about it. ...my only point is that this should not be happening with this car....period...end of story. Yes, that IS the point, even if YOUR car may have 'abnormal' brake wear, that is NOT the norm. I am not sure comparing to your old E320 is relevant but, at 12,500k mi., my (measured, not eye-balled) front and rear pads had about 50% and 80% left respectively. That suggests a 25k service interval on the front and 62.5k on the rear brakes. And I am HARD on my 6mt brakes with probably 70/30% short/highway mi. Is that acceptable to me? For a performance sedan with my driving habits, I say yes! Heck, our '96 Grand Caravan ate three sets of brakes and rotors by 100k. Infiniti does acknowledge certain owners who feel they are experiencing excessive brake wear. Rather than argue the definition of excessive, they addressed the issue with an amended brake warranty for everybody. Kudos to them! While I and others are experiencing what we feel might be called 'normal' wear, it looks like we may still be able to get free replacement pads/rotors under warranty for our first 'normal' front brake service interval.

Infiniti has known about this problem. When you were looking at buying the car, no one explained the brakeing issues to you (otherwise no one would be driving a g35). And the 2003 models have the EXACT same problem. Everyone knew about this problem except for the consumer. As of today, there are 66 Technical Service Bulletins and 4 Recalls on 2003-2005 Infiniti G35's. They are all public information, easily found on a website maintained by Infiniti. See http://infinitihelp.com/. How many of these are you aware of? How many were specifically detailed by your dealer at the time of your purchase? Did you purchase before or after the brake warranty was issued in Nov. '03? Did you research these issues on your own or expect the dealer to go thru each TSB with you? I suspect you will disagree, however, since that is not something dealers are required to or normally do, I say caveat emptor for all major purchases including autos.

Bottom line: I can understand why you may be upset and I am sorry if your car doesn't meet your expectations. However, if you are one of the few to experienced 'premature' brake wear, it does appear free and easily remedied. And, at this point, there is simply no evidence it will be a recurring problem for you or anyone. To me, your allegations and advocacy of a class action lawsuit - before you even received any definitive results of your own car's inspection or thoroughly researched the issue - are knee-jerk, unfounded and, shall we say, just a tad 'premature' themselves. I do hope you find a satisfactory resolution soon. It is a very enjoyable car.

Lauraa_000
01-04-2005, 07:30 PM
Thanks for the information & reply.

Yes, that is how the Infiniti dealership explained it to me (regarding replacement parts). And no, none (technicall bulletins) were specifically detailed prior to or after purchase of the vehicle. My G35 was bought in July 2004 (new).

My only point referencing my E320... if you ever owned a Mercedes, they are very needy when it comes to mechanic attention and sensitive to how you drive them. Hence the reason why I got to learn and adjust how I drove before I bought the G35. (ie I do not drive the car hard)

Bought the G35 because I wanted something reliable and a car I could run the miles up on (work travel). Have to say I was very upset to hear "the G35's have brake problems" when I visited my dealership the other week. (the exact words they used)

Guess we'll see. I do plan on giving the dealership a chance with my brakes (through the amended warranty)....I don't really have a choice either :) Again, thank you for the information and the reply.

dholly
01-05-2005, 11:23 AM
Laura - I think such a general comment, "the G35's have brake problems", was incredibly irresponsible by the dealer representative. It infers ALL G35's are doomed for premature brake failure! It certainly did not give you, the consumer and customer, the accurate or helpful information you deserve...let alone foster a sense of confidence in your new car. Shame on them, it spotlights their lack of professionalism, IMO.

Frankly, I EXPECT the dealer sales and service staff to be well versed on every aspect of the $30k+ vehicles they sell and service. Hopefully, at the very least, equal to the knowledge I have in the car after I do my pre-purchase research. I am very, very fortunate to have a customer-oriented local dealer PLUS an extermely helpful and accomodative service writer PLUS another g35 enthusiast nut in their service tech dept. to work on my car. Grateful too, and I will be handing each a gift certificate tomorrow when my car goes in for service. I beleive strongly that it pays to seek out and develop relationships with the most knowledgeable contacts in your preferred dealership. If there were a bunch of ignorant bozos in the service dept. at the local dealer, I would bite the bullet and find another dealer.

To date, while I haven't experienced brake issues, my '04 sedan has required unscheduled maintenance twice. First for replacement of the driver side compression rod at about 10k mi. (see TSB at www.Infinitihelp.com), and now I need both front swaybar end links replaced. So, believe me, I do share your sense of surprise, disappointment and frustration at being inconvenienced with a relatively new car.

Not a very auspicious start for either of us, however, I suspect we will be extermely pleased with overall reliability of our G35's. The VQ engine should last for many, many miles. From www.WardAuto.com: "Taking its unrivaled 11th consecutive 10 Best Engines trophy is Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.’s 3.5L DOHC V-6. The only engine to win an award every year since the program’s inception, Nissan engineers improved the “VQ” V-6 with new levels of power and torque for 2005." That is very high praise indeed.

So, back to the big question...what exactly did the brake inspection reveal? If possible, please ask for the actual pad and rotor measurements to quantify any wear you had, it would be helpful in promulgating the facts. Thanks.

FLA G35
01-06-2005, 08:30 PM
I have a 03.5 G35 that I love but it does have a brake problem. At 12,000 miles they were resurfaced and new pads installed under the amended brake warranty. I now have 22,000 and I now have to take it in again. The warning sound went from occationally on one day and within within two days it is now constant. I am not an agressive driver and baby my G. Infiniti does need to come out with a better fix. This has only been a band-aid fix. At this rate I'll be looking at another brake job just about the time the amended warrenty runs out.

dholly
01-07-2005, 11:16 AM
FLA -

Man, 10k is pitiful brake life, so much so you have to wonder if more than just pads or rotors are at fault in your instance. I once had a car with a 'sticky' brake piston that did not retract all the way and caused the pads to wear out very prematurely. Clearly though, something significant is wrong, especially if you truly are easy on your brakes. I do have one question though... I wonder if the replacement pads they used at 12k were the original or new composition pads? I have heard both were installed under the amended warranty depending on when the service was done. Supposedly, they began to use the new pads sometime last summer.

Only time will tell if these issues will continue to plague you but, on an optimistic note... if a batch of bad rotors did find their way onto some cars, you should be getting new rotors this time around (seeing as they've already been turned once). If the old rotors were the cause of your trouble, perhaps that will cure it. Regarding the pads... if they simply replaced the bad oem Hitachi pads with the exact same pad last time and they use the new composition pads this time... well, maybe this combination of new pads/new rotors will go the distance.

Either way, when you take it in for service, you should tell them you want the pad and rotor measurements as well as a complete assessment of all the other brake system components. G/L

FLA G35
01-07-2005, 01:31 PM
It was the original pads that they used last time.

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