525 automatic? manual? that is the question

I'm about to purchase a BMW 1995 525i. Which way should I go and why. any advice out there from you bmw veterans?

DBW

It only depends on your driving preferrences as both transmissions are almost bullet proof. A + for the 5spd is lower price, a - is occassional clutch replacement for $$$.00...........the Auto trans. requires NO service at all and NONE is advised.

The later transmissions shift so well there is little performance difference compared to the Manual in any driving a 525i is likely to endure.

It's strickly a matter of "taste"....best to you!

the Auto trans. requires NO service at all and NONE is advised.

!

That is totally wrong! The e34 525i, which includes 1995, uses Dexron III for ATF and that fluid needs to be changed on a regular basis. Most owners that I know do it every 25,000 miles or less. Just because BMW did a foolish thing and did away with the dipstick/fill tube in late 1991, is not an indication that these trannys have the very poorly named "lifetime fluid" - they don't. Even the lifetime fluid needs to be changed in the 75,000 to 100,000 mile range, depending on who you listen to. ZF, who manufactures the trannys with the lifetime fluid, says to change it every 100,000 miles.

I have a 1991 525i that has the dipstick, and that is the only difference between my tranny and the one that later came with no dipstick. The fluid is the same and the tranny is the same, made by GM.

The Dexron is dirt cheap and if you drain and refill with fresh fluid on a regular basis, you will help keep your tranny working for a long time. Draining and refilling only gets out about 60 % of the old fluid, as a lot of it stays in the torque converter, but doing this on a frequent basis will get rid of a lot of the old stuff. It is recommended, when you first get one of the cars, that you drain and refill the ATF 2 or 3 times with some driving in between so that you really get most of the old fluid of undetermined age out.

These auto trannys are quite robust, but the fluid needs changing.

Welcome, if I may do so, to the this Forum, "Dick Schneiders" ! It's always great to have a new 'member' who actually does some research and shows active participation in the care of his/her BMW.

I do however now feel like many of the recent political types called to the mat for a quip or quote taken slightly out of context and do appologize for my brief response to what seemed on the surface, a very simply question, "525 auto? manual?"

I do enjoy people with passion though and will give a detailed response and explaination of my statement if requested. This IS one of those "GREY" areas in the opinion of many.......I'M NOT ONE OF THEM....I have sound, empirical basis for my feelings on the matter. Notice I said feelings NOT BELIEF!.......anyway, I've tried to be very careful in the advice and consule I given on this forum to it's members and have stated why I do this in past posts.

In brief, I've been an Automotive Technician for 35 years, ASE Master Technician for 31 years and a BMW Master Technician for 25 years though I left the 'Dealership Experience' for good, 5 years ago. Though my evening time with this Forum is limited at present ( I do have a life besides BMW's ) I truely am concerned with the welfare of the vast majority of this Forums members and their BMW's and share what experience, 'knowledge' and "wisdom" I can............why else would one do such an anonymous thing anyway?............makes me feel good.

Getting long winded for what was to be a brief response.

I'll post my COMPLETE "feelings" on the subject shortly.

PLEASE don't everyone rush out to service your Auto. Trans. with 90K+ miles on it until I do post it,.... please?.....wait a couple days......please..thanks..jb

Jeffrey,

Thanks for the welcome, especially in the light of my rather brusque comments to your earlier posting.

While I am not a BMW tech or mechanic or a pro in any respect, I have owned several bimmers over the past 6 years or so and, as you recognize, done a ton of research. I have participated on a regular basis on a couple of other very active BMW E34 internet forums, mostly learning but also sometimes passing on what I have learned.

These forums are populated with several excellent BMW techs that are always willing to pass on their knowledge based on many years of working on bimmers. These guys are also BMW owners and they have walked and "talked" me through many complex problems concerning the 2 E34's I have owned.

A month or so ago I purchased a 1999 740i, after doing my usual research into the pros and cons of these cars. I have been scouring the internet for information on the E38 and that is how I discovered this set of BMW forums and ultimately, this forum on the 5 series.

There are a few very contentious issues with our cars, and transmission fluid is one of them. My feelings are not based on *my* experience, even though I have done several fluid/filter changes on all of my bimmers, including the "lifetime" stuff in the 740i. My feelings are totally based on the unaminous advice given by the respected BMW techs on the other forums. They, to a man, drain and refill their Dexron fluid bimmers every 20,000 to 25,000 miles - some do it at every other oil change.

While I do agree that the decision to change tranny fluid in a car that has "90,000 miles" and has probably never had it changed is a scary one, I have never talked/communicated with anyone that has done this that had any problems later that could be attributed to the fluid change. Especially in the cars that use the very inexpensive Dexron fluid, which the car in question does, the decision should be an easy one. This fluid is not a "lifetime" fluid, or even a long-term fluid and if the tranny has not had any problems to date, the owners can consider themselves very lucky. I did this in both of the 1991 525i's I have purchased in the past 6 years, and they both had well over 100,000 miles on them.

What I did, after considerable research and questioning of BMW techs, was to drain and refill with fresh fluid several time while driving the cars for a few days in between the changes. The final time I dropped the pans and also changed the tranny filters. I did this primarily to get as much of the old fluid out of the systems as possible, as it would be more and more diluted with each change. I also did this, instead of the very controversial total tranny fluid flush process, to minimize the shock, if any, to the transmissions of having all the very old fluid replaced with complete new fluid all at once. I believe in being as cautious as possible. This process was certainly made much easier on these two cars, compared to BMW's from about 1992 on, as they both had the dipstick/fill tube on the transmissions.

The fluid in both of these trannys, while still somewhat red and not smelling burnt, was *very* dirty and certainly was needing of change. The magnets in the pans also needed cleaning of a lot of very tiny metal shavings. Both of the trannys worked perfectly prior to the work, and they both have worked perfectly for years afterward. These trannys are made by GM, by the way.

When I got my 1999 740i several weeks ago, the transmission fluid/filter was one of my prime concerns, as the car had 95,000 miles on it. This car has the ZF auto tranny, and while I had seen a lot of postings/research on them and the "lifetime" fluid, since the later 540 E34's use this gearbox, I was not very aware of the issues with it. So, once again, I did a lot of research. In spite of what one writer in Roundel said recently about his recommendation to never change the fluid in *any* bimmer with a lot of miles, on the advice of the techs I know and respect and the "bulk" of the research I found, I changed the fluid and filter. The fluid was quite dirty, but the pan was very clean and the magnets were virtually debris free. The fluid was expensive, but a lot less so since I got it at a VW/Audi dealership instead of a BMW one.

Frankly, I think the Roundel writer is wrong, and so do the techs that I know. Especially for a car with the lifetime fluid, the fluid should be changed around the 75,000 to 100,000 mark. Since this fluid has a long life, it still should be viable and the tranny in good condition at this mileage so there should be no worries about the fluid change disturbing a system that has not been maintained previously. However, the 100,000 mile mark seems to be a benchmark for many BMW trannys, and many techs feel that fresh fluid could extend the lifetime considerably. BMW says this fluid is lifetime, and what they mean is that it will generally last until the car and transmission are out of warranty, so that subsequent to that any repair or replacement will be out of the owner's pocket. That is their "lifetime" and I certainly want my transmissions to last much longer than that.

Sorry for the very long posting, but this is, as Jeffrey said, a complex issue. I do not, and will not, hold myself out to be an expert in any of this stuff, but I also will not shy away from passing on any of my considerable research and advice from those I rely on for help.

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders (1999 740i & 1991 525i)

Sorry, I forgot to mention something. While not directly addressing the issue on this GM 525i tranny, there is a pertinent posting in the 7-series forum on this site.

Under the topic "Transmission Noise '97 BMW 740i" somebody posted a letter he got from ZF, the maker of the trannys in most of the V8 cars. He was asking the maker of the transmission about BMW's advice to *never* change the fluid on these trannys with the lifetime fluid.

The answer totally refuted what the normal song and dance is from BMW service managers and parts managers. You ought to read the letter, but the response was that in spite of the "lifetime" designation given by BMW, the fluid should be changed at 100,000 miles.

While not at all the same transmission or fluid, this simply points out how wrong the advice given by the BMW mainstream can be. This certainly refutes what the dealerships and what the writer in Rondell are telling owners.