First post, and yes its another 16y/o concerning his first car

Hey, I've been reading up on various things here in AF and finally decided to sign up. I don't actually have my liscense yet, I've gotta hold my permit for 9 months here in Virginia, so I won't get it 'til the end of May(I could have had it in November but I waited like 6 months to get my permit... doh!). I don't have a job right now, but do have around $2000 in savings bonds and saved up money that I am putting towards my first car. I'm trying to find a job now, noone wants to hire a 16 year old, even though I've held a job working at a dog kennel for a year and a half(wasn't fired, just got tired of scooping poop). I have looked at some of the obvious cars such as 240sx, 300zx, mustang, camaro, etc etc. My parents are a bit strict as to what I'm allowed to buy, some of the rules are:

-It has to have an auto tranny. I can see where they're going with this but I'm a bit more... coordinated than they are. Oh well.

-Has to run on pump gas, so no really old (but really cool!) muscle cars.

-It has to be decently reliable. My parents don't want me "fixing up" the car and "wasting money" on it.

I want something that is decently quick(fast 0-60) because I honestly don't particularly care about top speed and whatnot, its the accelleration that you feel. Although good 1/4 mile times wouldn't hurt. And just a side note: I'm not going to street race it, there is a drag track about an hour away or so which I plan on taking it to. There's also a large stretch of road near a sewage plant that has no houses or anything so its always clear for hot dogging every now and then. :licka: I have a love for most all muscle cars, especially camaros and whatnot. Me being a student though I probably will go broke from the gas guzzling American V-8s, so I've been looking into the import cars as well. I must say I absolutely hate ricers and have been quick to call just about any Japanese car a piece of crap, but cars like the nissan 300zx and Toyota MR2(not MR-S) have been growing on me. I love the jet cockpit-like feel of imports and the luxurious interiors on them. Thats the one thing I think most American cars lack. I will guess that by the time I get a job and May rolls around(I could wait til the end of August though to get more money) I'll have close to $6000. Definitely $4500 though. I know the automatic transmission rule really messes with most cars but for the most part I just want a nice car that will blow the doors off the real ricers, and something that at the same time will impress a pretty lady :naughty: ::shwing!::. I think two of the main car's im considering are the auto tranny non turbo 300ZX and pretty much any auto 350ci camaro or 5.0 mustang.

Thanks for reading my long-*** post :smile:

hello felow teeneger from the great state of VA go with a 350 camaro ohh yeah chicks dig that shit haha my lady loves my nova so you will score with a nice 350 camaro i would say a 68 would be good for you ya need a good lookin one that needs a motor get a nice rebuilt one from the auto store put that baby in and have fun haha anyways goodluck on the hunt

yeah dude an cherish it cuz my parents are gay and don't want to pay insurance on a sports/muscle car

I am the one paying insurance, I'm being written on as an occasional driver and I will be paying about $275-325 every 3 months.

Welcome, Flatlander. First of all, a big thanks for reading first and then posting good background info that we can use! So many times we get posts here that say, "which is better, the corvette or the GT40?" and we're left hanging. We want to be respectful in case there is someone actually considering these cars, but when they word it like that we can't help but think its a 13 year old who is trying to impress us "old" guys.

In answer to your question, There are several cars (both import and domestic) that I think would make you happy. The F-body (camaro/firebird/trans am) is a good one and you could have an early to mid 90s Camaro for your budget. The LT1 V8 has proven to be an excellent long-runner and will provide excellent reliability. The 4L60E auto tranny on the other hand isn't the wisest choice. If you can do a six speed, its the reliability winner. If the auto tranny dies you can have it rebuilt with better guts and it will last forever, but its not what I'd call a bulletproof design. They also don't tend to massively fail and leave you stranded, usually they just start having weak shifts and odd operating characteristics. If you go into it knowing that you'll have to rebuild it someday and then it will be bulletproof, you won't be disappointed.

Any 80's A/G-body (monte carlo, cutlass, 442, grand national, el camino, gran prix, etc) will be a good choice if you're careful. You'll find that none of them are what you might call powerful, but some are plenty quick. The chevy's all came with 305s in two versions; a low power with was usually around 125 hp and a high output which was more like 170. I don't have the exact numbers with me, but they were inflated anyway. Most of the other GM models came with the Olds 307 in two levels. VIN code Y which was 140 hp, and VIN code N which was 190. Both were inflated; they actuall made about 125 and 180 respectively. The higher power versions were available in cars like the Monte Carlo SS, El Camino SS, 442, and a couple others. (earlier A/G bodies came with larger engines, but starting in about 82 they were all 305/307s) I suggest the A/G body, not for its power or mileage, but for the fact that for your budget, you could buy a clean, low-mileage example with enough change left over to buy some go-fast goodies that would improve both power and fuel use. Or, you could save up a few more pennies and buy a good example of an 87-88 Grand National Turbo and give a 95 Impala SS a real run for its money. When you talk to folks about A/G bodies, don't listen to them when they make fun of the 305 and 307. While they don't have the bore size or displacement to make them good race engines, they are just a smaller version of any other Chevy and Olds engine ever produced. They are good engines choked by poor heads and poorly designed smog equipment, but I've seen smog-legal 300-hp versions of both. One thing to look for on A/G bodies... Since you live in a potentially salty area, look at the frame particularly where the rear axle's lower control arm attaches. That's where they usually rust first. I had an 87 cutlass with no problems there, and I had an 85 El Camino that looked like raisin bran flakes right there. Just stick your head under the car in front of the rear wheel opening and its where the frame bends.

Any Fox-body mustang. These are any of the ones that look like the boxy "five-oh" 80's stangs and the next style after it. Again, not the wisest choice for mileage, but the last few years of the 5.0L engine used roller cams and forged pistons. Somebody help me... starting in 92??? Not that this is necessary, but I would rather have a roller cam engine with 100k miles than a flat cam engine with 70k. It might afford you some extra life for your investment.

While you're at it, look at Thunderbirds of the same years. They are also fox-bodies and almost all of the performance suspension and chassis parts from 'stangs work on them too.

I'm suprised 1977Nova didn't recommend the X-body (novas, later venturas, etc. Not to be confused with the front-drive X body like the Citation... eww) they are a light car that came with a V8. The also used the L6 (251 cid???) that was a good mileage engine and last darn near forever.

You've probably already looked at these, but the standard quick cars that import lovers go for are the 240sx 300z and a few others. If you want to go both import and classic, look at the 240/260 Z cars. Don't expect reliability, but its just a thought.

When you're worried about cheap gas, don't concern yourself too much unless you're going back before 1975. For the most part compression ratios started to fall rapidly after 1970 and anything domestic under 9:1 you can tune to run on 87 octane. You'll find that most cars from the late 70s and early 80s had more like 7.9:1 compression :eek:

Any of the above American cars I suggested can also be bought with the V6. You'll save a little in purchase price and a tiny bit in fuel, but don't automatically go to them as the fuel economy answer. Most Camaro LT1s can muster up 25 mpgs or more.

One advantage of going slightly older is that parts are CHEAP. Any of the cookie-cutter cars from the 70s and 80s used the same parts across the line. Since they are so plentiful and interchangable, they are readily available as cores to rebuild. The 140-amp alternator on the LT1 costs over $100, but you can find a 80-amp alternator for a mid-80's GM for $30. Belts are sold in bulk practically. You can buy a V-belt for $10, but some later serpentine belts can be over $100. Water pumps for older cars are on the order of $15-40, but for an LT1 they are about $100. For mileage I suggest going with EFI, like the camaro or later mustang. If you are going to go carbureted, just know that most 70s and 80s carbed engines don't get very good mileage. Do the math based on how much you'll be driving, but if you put 12,000 a year on your car, going from 20 mpgs to 15 mpgs will only cost you about 200 gallons. When you're talking about an annual fuel cost of over $1000 anyway, it might not matter too much to you.

I don't know how much you're willing to do to the engine, but I'll give you an example that I did. 1987 Olds Cutlass, 140-hp 307, 36,000 miles. $3000 to buy (it was cherry :)) The heads are so restrictive on these cars that it ends up hurting mileage. I swapped to earlier 5A heads, an edelbrock intake, and a slight bump up in cam. I ended up making about 225 hp, and since I didn't really change much except how it could breathe, I ended up going from 17 mpg to 22 mpg. Total investment was still under $4500 and I had a cherry, low-mileage, darn sexy car that I loved.

If you're willing to do the work yourself (which is easy on old cars) you can have the ultimate cheap driver. Nothing beats the long-term reliability of a good-old Civic or Camry, but they can be expensive to fix if something fails. Some of those front drive cars you have to actually REMOVE a driveshaft to replace the alternator and it can only be done from under the car. Even though the alternator may only cost $100, the labor involved is incredible.

Have fun.

Thank you for the VERY insightful post, Curtis! It's funny that you mention A/G bodied cars... My neighbor/more-than-likely-soon-to-be-car-mentor has an 81-83 Chevy Malibu(I forget the exact year). It's a very appealing car and I like it a lot. From looking up on them on places like www.racingjunk.com you can get fast, cheap, Malibus for well under $6000. I'll be willing to do a little bit extra work to pay for whatever I do end up getting. I think something with an LT1 is right up my alley. I just found out recently that the Camaro and Firebird are the exact same in performance and whatnot. Just a bit different interiors and body styling. There are quite a few 94 and 95 Pontiac Trans-Ams and Firebird Formulas that I can attain in my price range. I think something a bit more recent will be more practical since there's a great aftermarket support for the F-body cars. And the LT1 is a good base powerplant that I can use for every day driving and I can upgrade for more power as my driving skill(and wallet!!) increases. And plus if I wanted some easy horsepower for minimal work, the STS turbo can bolt right on the 1993+ F-bodies. The sound of a blow off valve is very addicting. What is better than the low stomache churning American V-8 rumble followed by a deep and throaty roar then the oh-so-nice CHHHHHHHH of the turbo. Thank you for you help once again!

You're certainly welcome. Do you do smog there in your part of VA? If so, you might lean toward the 94-95 Camaro for the OBD1 engine management. The OBD2 that they used 96 and later was great, but less tolerant of aftermarket goodies.

I know what you mean about those turbos. There is a guy who lives down the street with a triple rotary RX3 that he races. It'll pull mid 8's with high boost. Every friday he tunes it up for the Saturday race and he goes around the block to test it. He gets that rotary spinning, then grabs the next gear and the blowoff just screams like a sick baby. :)