re-using 7bolt parts on 6 bolt engine

when i bought my 6bolt shortblock i knew i had to buy a few things. and make some modifications for it to fit in my 96 gsx. i was wondering what i could use on my existing 7bolt to save me some $. can i use the oil pan, oil filter bracket, oil cooler, oil screen, harness assembly's, oil pressure gauge, pulley's, things of that nature from my 7bolt if their in good shape? im mainly talking about external bolt on parts for the sortblock. thanks..

can i use the oil pan,yes and no, the second gen has a smaller oil screen.
oil filter bracket, no it has a different bolt pattern.
oil cooler, yes but why use the oil to coolant when it would be better to go oil to air.
oil screen, I wouldnt the because first gen is better.
harness assembly's, what parts?
oil pressure gauge, yes if you use the sending unit.
pulley's, I would suggest doing this. It is a ribbed vs v belt thing. I like the ribbed.
youll need some of the water pressure and temp sensors, a first gen radiator, a good wiring diagram of both the first and second gen motor, a heater hose T fitting to splice your MAP to the brake booster and a few more hours of time. do you have the first gen or second gen coilpacks? you need the 1g mounting bracket atleast. check vfaq. theres too much to write here and it would take too long. big tip though, Modify the timing tin before trying to put it on and use the 2g timing side motor mount, and your time an patience. thats a big part of the swap, TIME AND PATIENCE.

so what "can" i use from my 7bolt to save $

You can use is the motor mount with modification (must use 1st gen timing components = idler pully) You can use all the pullys, water pumps are the same, if you get a 90 oil filter housing, you will need a 90 water pipe. If you have a 91-99 oil filter housing you will need a 90-94 (unless you have a 2g head) water pipe because of the oil to water oil cooler. The oil pressure sending until is the same, they just screw in.

alternator, powersteering pump, MAP sensor ( this has to be tapped into the brake booster vacuume line), turbo if its a upgrade, timing side motor mount, wiring harness with mods for the CAS, fuel rail, you can use the coilpack but mounting is a pain, uicp and make sure that you have the right water neck

Note: You do not need to hook up the map sensor. It will not throw a code nor affect your motor in any way.

Thanks eclipse rst. I did not know that....

im a little confuesed with what your trying to relay.

quote: "You can use is the motor mount with modification (must use 1st gen timing components = idler pully) You can use all the pullys."

I'll be using a 1g head..

Quote: "If you have a 91-99 oil filter housing you will need a 90-94 (unless you have a 2g head) water pipe because of the oil to water oil cooler. The oil pressure sending until is the same, they just screw in."

Q: is it a possable to convert/fabricate oil/water to oil/air using the 91-99 oil filter housing and 90-94 water pipe?


i think a better question was "what won't fit/work/interchange". im beginning to think im in alittle over my head with this winter project. i'll try and make better sence of this all later when i have more time.

Reviewing..

Will work: all pullies, except idle pully?(1st q)?; oil cooler, oil pan, oil pressure gauge and sending unit, motor mounts, o2 pump, oil filter housing. alternator, powersteering pump, wiring harness (with modification), crankshaft angle sensor, hydrolic tensioner, arm? (what the hell is an arm tensioner?) & T-belt tensioner,entire fuel delevery system. upper & lower timming covers..

Not sure: crankshaft pully, ignition system, Evap controle system, thermestat, tranny bolts, oil screen (are you 100% sure 1g is better?) cruise control, ABS, fans, o2's, exhaust Manny, o2 husing, downpipe, dejontools uicp, Maf, fuse box , knock sensors

Will Not work: Oil filter bracket, radiator, hoses, map.

are we on the same page here, anything else? Thanks guys

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2g6boltmotorinstall.htm

im a little confuesed with what your trying to relay.

quote: "You can use is the motor mount with modification (must use 1st gen timing components = idler pully) You can use all the pullys."

I'll be using a 1g head..

Quote: "If you have a 91-99 oil filter housing you will need a 90-94 (unless you have a 2g head) water pipe because of the oil to water oil cooler. The oil pressure sending until is the same, they just screw in."

Q: is it a possable to convert/fabricate oil/water to oil/air using the 91-99 oil filter housing and 90-94 water pipe?

Yes but save the hassle and get a 90 oil filter housing and oil cooler, along with a 90 water pipe that runs across the front of the block. Much easier to work with and you dont have to worry about the nut backing out on the oil to water cooler and getting water in your oil!

i think a better question was "what won't fit/work/interchange". im beginning to think im in alittle over my head with this winter project. i'll try and make better sence of this all later when i have more time.

Reviewing..

Will work: all pullies, except idle pully?(1st q)?; oil cooler, oil pan, oil pressure gauge and sending unit, motor mounts, o2 pump, oil filter housing. alternator, powersteering pump, wiring harness (with modification), crankshaft angle sensor, hydrolic tensioner, arm? (what the hell is an arm tensioner?) & T-belt tensioner,entire fuel delevery system. upper & lower timming covers..

The following items will not work unless they are from a 6 bolt:

7 bolt oil pan will not work. 7 bolt oil filter housing will not work. You can not use the crank sensor (6 bolts use the cam sensor). What is O2 pump? (Do you mean oil pump? If so a 7 bolt oil pump will not work, the crank case covers are different!) 7 bolt idle pully for the timing belt and arm tensioner that it's mounted on will not work. 7 bolt lower timing belt cover will not work.

Not sure: crankshaft pully, ignition system, Evap controle system, thermestat, tranny bolts, oil screen (are you 100% sure 1g is better?) cruise control, ABS, fans, o2's, exhaust Manny, o2 husing, downpipe, dejontools uicp, Maf, fuse box , knock sensors

Will Not work: Oil filter bracket, radiator, hoses, map.

are we on the same page here, anything else? Thanks guys

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2g6boltmotorinstall.htm


Everything you listed you can use except the 7 bolt oil screen... Doesnt bolt down the same. You can use the thermostat, just not the thermostat housing.

Also you can use the radiator and hoses still.

ok. RRE's website says: "2nd gen. ECU's require a crank angle sensor"

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2g6boltmotorinstall.htm

also the list of modified usable parts that they recomend are diffrent from the ones listed above.

is there a website with a better compiled documentry on 1g engine swap and part requirments? becasue the website info just isnt easly available, beyond that, there just isnt anyone around here in this town who can help me out, and im tearing my hair out trying go gather what information i need to do this properlly.

Well I'm not sure if these write-ups are any better than RRE's, but I'm sure they cover other/additional information that may be useful to you.

Magnus 6-bolt swap info: http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/article_1g2g.htm

VFAQ oil cooler info (thought this may explain some things about the oil cooler differences): http://www.vfaq.com/mods/oilcool.html

Yes the 2nd gen ECU requires a crank angle sensor but on a 6 bolt there is no were to mount it... So therefor you can not use it. What you do is run the wire that goes to the crank sensor to the cam sensor like the 1st gens do.

Trust me, I know what I am talking about. I have done so many of these swaps I could do it in my sleep now!

Its what I do for a living right now... Build 6 bolts and install them in 1st gens, 2nd gens, and Galant VR-4s.

when you fall asleep tonight, please feel free to float over.

i think i could have asked my origional question in such a more effecent way!!
please, jake, if you were doing this swap yourself, what parts would you order?? i have "NO" 1g parts, only the shortblock with internals, ballance shaft removal kit, could you add what i have missed, i would really like to close out this thread and continue with this project.

1g part list

1G CAS
1G (90) Oil Cooler
1G oil pan
1G Oil Pump/Front Case/Filter housing
1G (90) Water Pump
1G (90) Water Pipe
1G lower radiator hose
1G Thermostat housing/ Water Neck
1G tensioner arm
1G T-belt Covers

1g oil screen

You can reuse the stock radiator hose and water pump if you want... There is no difference between the pumps unless you want a brand new one (not a must but good idea.)

Oh yea... You also need: :p

1g 6 bolt Block
1g Head and Intake manifold

so im good to go with what was listed on the 1g parts + oil screen, and just reuse all the 2g parts from my 7 bolt?

im really supprised their isnt a publication on this with how popular it is!!

A lot of this stuff was already covered, but I'm going to run through this from the top of my head. Maybe I'll hit on something that was missed earlier. Trying to sort out all the previous posts is giving me a headache, this is easier :) I'll go in the general order I build motors in, and I believe you said you are using a 1g head.

6 bolt block with internals of course
6 bolt oil pan and pickup
91 oil pump cover and gears (2)
stubby shaft for bshaft removal
rubber coated plug for front bshaft removal (install bearing 180 degrees off in block). Alternatively, leave the front shaft in as normal but with no belt
6 bolt bashaft belt pulley, seperator plate, and main crank sprocket
6 bolt oil pump drive sprocket
91 water pump (2g will not work. The 1g water pump is the reason the mount has to be cut)
91 tensioner
91 tensioner pulley
91 tensioner arm
91 idler pulley
91 timing belt
1g timing covers (plastic front, and the 3 rear metal covers)
91-94 oil filter housing for water cooling (not recomended), 90 oil filter housing for air cooled oil, non turbo filter housing for no oil cooler (I dont run one), or Galant forward facing housing.
MAtching water pipe (91-94 will have fitting for oil cooler line, 90 wont, non turbo is for non-water cooled turbos)
Matching water neck/tstat housing (91-94 turbo for water coled oil, 90 for air cooled oil, non turbo for non-water cooled turbo)
stock, mitsu metal, or cometic gasket (surface the head and block specifically for the gasket being used)
ARP studs (12mm for 6 bolt)
1g or 2g cam gears
1g or 2g coil pack
1g or 2g fuel rail and injectors (2g stock regulator requires 2g rail or modified regulator)
1g or 2g valve cover (my 2g cover throws people off ;))
2g accessories (alternator, PS pump, AC compressor), brackets, and pulleys
91 crank pulley/damper
2g knock sensor (~7 ft-lbs!)
1g intake mani and TB
You DO need the MAP in most cases, mine did. Use standard 3/16th vac line to connect it to a manifold vacuum port (FPR, or TB port "E")
All 2g coolant/oil/etc sensors
cut the mount to fit
cut the tranny counter weight to clear lower water hose better
2g starter plate, and starter
6 bolt flywheel (Use new bolts!) cut to .610
Nows the time to do solid mounts

That aught to be the bulk of it. So for most parts you need to use 6 bolt parts (91 is the best year to use, not all 92s are 6 bolts, and 90s have some oddball parts), some parts have to be 2g, others you have a choice. The magnus list was a big help to me, I'm sure they've improved it since then too.

exactly what i needed. welcome back.

i was searching some other sites and found the 96 obdII hyunda sonata front case is compatable with the 1g 4g63, meaning it uses a Crank angle sensor, wich will fix the cas wiring problem in the swap. allowing me to use my stock cam angle sensor and crank angle sensor. from what i have read about hyundai's crank angle sensor boss, it might just be the right size to fit with the stock 2g crank angle sensor in my 7bolt, and with the sonata crank angle sensor trigger wheel it might just all fit. the best part about this is...i work for hyundai, so im going to get off my ass and walk up to the parts counter and get some part # and maybe open up some of the Shop manuals in the service department and make copies of the dimentions and see if their the same as mitsu.. Thanks agian

You know, I have read that too on DSMlink forums. If that works be sure to let me know!

well the hyundai part # is 21310-33340 for the 96 4cy hyundai sonata's front case its $229.57 my cost. i went back to the service shop and took the servace manual for it and went online to hyundai's webtech (online service book) and found nothing worth while.

http://www.hmaservice.com/webtech/default.asp

i know a guy in town who is parting out his complete 92 laser turbo, im putting together a list of things i need so i can e-mail him with an offer. i wanted to clear somthing up before i do. Thanks.

Kevin, when you listed these folling parts on your veary helpfull post many months ago, were you refuring to the 91 becasue it was just the most reliable source for parts, or is it 91 specific for best results??

91 water pump (2g will not work. The 1g water pump is the reason the mount has to be cut)
91 tensioner
91 tensioner pulley
91 tensioner arm
91 idler pulley
91 timing belt
91 crank pulley/damper

Thanks agian.

This is what im going try and get from him:

Intake mani / TB / Head (core or full) depends
oil pump drive sprocket
water pump
tensioner
tensioner pulley
tensioner arm
idler pulley
timing covers (plastic front, and the 3 rear metal covers)
crank pulley/damper
flywheel
CAS
4bolt rear end


what should i offer him? respectivly i dont want to offend him, but i dont want to pay alot for this stuff. Thanks.

Ps. if anyone wants anything let me know.

The pulleys, tensioner, and water pump should be bought new just to be safe.

4 bolt rears come on al 2Gs, any reason you need one? They go for 350-450.

The intake mani and TB add up to 100-120.

head is 100 for the casting, 150-200 for rebuildable core, and more if its been rebuilt depending on the cost of the labor and parts used.

The rest of the parts add up to at least 100, not too much more, assuming 50 for the FW.

I use 91 to order parts since not all 92s were 6 bolts (they'll be even more likely to require a VIN to order parts at most dealers) and 90s have some oddball parts that you dont really want. I do this since I have never had a 1g VIN to use to order the parts, you should be in the same situation I assume.

right. cleared that right up. thanks