Serious problem!!!! Electrical !!!! 92 cherokee. got nothing

ok i have a 1992 cherokee lerado 125,000 and i bought it at 68,000 from a friends parents.

Ok the jeep worked great then i got another car so i parked the jeep inside the garage. i started and drove it every week at least once. then i was out of town for two weeks. came back and my mom wanted to use it. so i let her use it. she drove it all day and then i got a call saying it wont start. "i got nothing its dead" after clearing up my tears of my dead jeep i called her back. she answers saying it started, but when i turned the key on i got nothing. i got it home, check the battery it was great. am pretty knowledgable in cars so this started to piss me off. here are a list of the symptoms

-will not start, but i can hot wire the starter to get it to crank.(so started selonoid is ok)
-then i have no spark. tested by grounding to the block yada yada.
-when i turn the key i get nothing at all.
-interior light work, hadlights work, radio... all that stuff works.
-figured it was the ignition. 25 minutes and $11.99 later a new ignition switch was in there, but still got nothing.
HERE IS THE KILLER
-power to both sides of the maxis fuses (the big ones like 60amps)

my dad has been a mechanic for 20 years and he is stumped so is two jeep techs that live in my neighborhood.

Could it be the neutral switch? how big of a pain is that to replace i hear it is pulling the trans?

please e-mail me [email protected]

or even call me i would love a call. 765-427-2575 call anytime. we got snow again today and even though i have a front wheel drive car, i have a 4x4 jeep maching me from the garage (poor girl cant even go play in the snow) my name is Matt and like i said call anytime day night it does not matter.

sounds like the starter relay to me, check that out...

allready replaced all the relays with oem's. that was expensive!

when i turn the key nothing happens. therefor the starter relay is not opening, which would look to be an ignition switch problem, but i put a new on in. so then i wanted to know if the engine would even crank so i jumped the relay and it cranks, but when i am jumping it it has no spark.

is this a 4.0L engine??

JD

[QUOTE=jmbrogan41]when i turn the key nothing happens. therefor the starter relay is not opening, which would look to be an ignition switch problem, but i put a new on in. so then i wanted to know if the engine would even crank so i jumped the relay and it cranks, but when i am jumping it it has no s p
.you

if you think it's the nss go to jeepin.com they have a how to article on how to fix it good luck

is it an auto trans? The nss sends a ground to the ecm, the ecm sends a ground to the starter relay, if there is no ground, the relay will not function and nothing will happen when you turn the key.

do you have an auto trans? The nss switch sends a ground to the ecm, then the ecm sends the ground to the starter relay, if there is no ground to the relay, nothing will happen when you turn the key and there will of course be no spark.

ok yes it is a 4.0 inline 6.

i messed with the shifter back and forth over and over and still nothing.

I also said in the post before that BOTH SIDES OF THE MAXIS FUSES ARE HOT (They have power)

My personal opinion about this is the nss, but i think something else is wrong too since i have power on both sides of the fuses.

i ohmed the relays and they are all good.

it does have the auto trans

if the nss is bad when i jump it it crank it would i still have no spark?

any more info let me know

the e-mails came pooring in and they are great thanks to all that have replied so far.

YO 89LTD!!!!! Could i run another ground to the relay and be done with it? or i was thinking about just putting a push button start on it. we do it to all of my dads racecars could that work?


But then again what about no spark from the distributor?

I have wiring diagrams for 88 and 93 and they have different colour codes and starter relays, do you have the small square black relay or the bigger motocraft one near the battery?

put it in neutral and try to start it while wiggling the shifter in neutral not out of neutral but in it.

Get the cranking working first, then worry about the no spark. Short the NSS and see if it starts....BUT be careful...it will crank in any gear then!! If it cranks, but does not start, unplug the Crankshaft position sensor and plug it back in. If it still doesn't start, then insure that the crank sensor's plug is securely connected....(these harness plugs are notorious for going bad on the 4.0L). If still no start, then test the sensor or have it tested. You may have to replace it.
The computer relies on this crank sensor and the cam sensor to know when to 'fire'. Crank sensor tells the computer when top-dead-center is there and the cam sensor (in the distributor) tells the computer if it's the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke. When both jive, it fires. Otherwise, the computer does not fire because it's "lost" the engine's position.

ok right now the jeep is not in good enough condition to start. i say this because. when i had both sides of the fuses hot i strted to dissasemble the fuse box to se if somethign was touching or a mouse chewed through some shit. so i have the coolent overflo out and the fuse box all to hell plus the dash is all apart.


tanno
i can jump it to crank(like hot wire it )
how do i even get to the nss where is it located? and where is the crank sensor located? i will check my book but so far the book sucks.

I haven't read this thread for awhile so I'm not sure if someone has mentioned that both sides of the fuse will be hot if the fuse is good and you are checking them with a test lite connected by the clip end to the negative battery teminal.

If you don't have 12v at both sides of the fuse, the fuse is burnt out!!

JD

ok so i just put the fuse box and all the other stuff back together, and checked my ingnition switch instalation again. now when i turn the key on all the "idiot lights" come on and when i try and start the engine i get no responce, BUT I DO GET THE OIL PRESSURE GUAGE TO MOVE. The fuel level stays the same but the light comes one (Because i am out of gas, or very close)


no clicking or anything
just silence

i dont like silence

please help.

thanks
matt

Hey matt.

What electrical test equipment do you have??

you should do this with a digital multimeter.

pull the starter relay from the power distribution center where all the relays are under the hood.

There will be 4 connections in the under the relay.

Only one should have power when the key is off (12v).

One of the other three connections should have power (12v) when the key is in held in the start position.

Let me know what you find.

JD

i do have a multimeter and tried what you said

there is one that is one all the time it is the T connections

now when the car is in the start position the bottom horizonal one and the left vertical one become active is this normal?


also let me know what you think about fixing or checking the nsss?

i do have a multimeter and tried what you said

there is one that is one all the time it is the T connections

now when the car is in the start position the bottom horizonal one and the left vertical one become active is this normal?


also let me know what you think about fixing or checking the nsss?
http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl561g.htm HI CHECK OUT THIS SHEET ITS FOR RELAYS MAY HELP YOU OUT DALE
[email protected]

Matt

Good info but I'm not sure what the orientation of the relay socket is.

Have a look at the relay socket at the bottom of the page in Dale's link and let me know what the numbers of the terminals are.

Also - go to the NSS and check the wires on the end of the connector where there are three wires in a row.

End wire is dark blue w/white tracer. should be battery volts from fuse 6 in the power dist center under the hood.

second wire in is brown with a yellow tracer. you do not want to see a voltage here if every thing is working correctly. If there is voltage here, check the wire next to it for voltage.

If the same voltage is at this wire, double check the ground at the right rear of the engine block or look for a broken wire (black w/tan tracer) between the switch and the ground location.

Let us know what you find and if that doesn't find it we will look in another direction.


JD

If no voltage here, service or replace the NSS.

hey ok so i jumped the neutral safety switch,

i did this by unpluging the gang plug attatched to the transmission check tube and taking a gator clip and cliping it to the two in the middle on the bottom row. then i had just a little juice left in the battery to i tried 2 start the jeep. and the solinoid on the starter enguaged but did not crank the motor.

ok so i not can jump the nss to let the started "click" but i do not think i have enough juice to crank so i poped the jumper box on the battery and decided to come check the forum.

i want to tell you guys that you have helped out alot and i look forward to you help for the rest of this project. thanks a million
Matt

oh yea there is a grey and a black gang plug on my jeep connected to the trans fluid check tube. let me know because i jumped using the black connector. let me know if i am on the right path since i got the solinoid to actuate using the key for the first time in 3 months YEA!!!!

ok using the link dale game me

look at the pic of the relay connector

when the jeep if in the off position 87 and 30 are hot, on the starter relay

when i turn and hold the key on start 87 and 86 are then showing some sign of power

i do not have a digital multimeter its the old school one with the needle i also am not to sure how to use it so i put it on dcv and checked the relay and when i had the key held on start 87 and 86 showed negative i think.( the needle starts on the left when multimeter is off and the needle went farther left when start was enguaged and 87 and 86 where connected.

hope i am on the right path let me know

IT RUNS!!!!!!!!! It runs with a fully charged battery and i jumped the neutral safety switch so it thinks it os always in park. i am the only one to drive this so it should not be a problem when spring comes i can replace it. Let me know about anything else. thanks again

Glad it is working. Make sure that you fix the NSS as soon as possible.

Glad to have helped a little.


JD

IT RUNS!!!!!!!!! It runs with a fully charged battery and i jumped the neutral safety switch so it thinks it os always in park. i am the only one to drive this so it should not be a problem when spring comes i can replace it. Let me know about anything else. thanks again

http://www.jeepin.com/features/howto.asp HERE IS A SITE THAT HAS INFO ON CLEANING THE NSS SWITCH DALE
jeepman^[email protected]

ok right now the jeep is not in good enough condition to start. i say this because. when i had both sides of the fuses hot i strted to dissasemble the fuse box to se if somethign was touching or a mouse chewed through some shit. so i have the coolent overflo out and the fuse box all to hell plus the dash is all apart.


tanno
i can jump it to crank(like hot wire it )
how do i even get to the nss where is it located? and where is the crank sensor located? i will check my book but so far the book sucks.


The nss is located on the passenger side of the transmission. It is actually called the gear select switch and controls the backup lamps as well as the nss. Its about $275 from jeep and is a some what common problem. The systems you describe point to it. you should be able to baypass it, but you loose backup lights.